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Art Style Trends in New Ship Designs
alcyoneserene
Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
Given this is the Art of Star Trek Feedback thread, I will submit this as my personal opinion regarding the current direction or trend of ship designs of late. Granted a single person's opinion and purchases aren't worth much, but I hope the attempt to describe more precisely what it is that's troublesome with recent ship designs and trends can provide a reference point for the minority (or perhaps a growing majority?) who are trying to convey this somehow, but not finding the means to do so.
To recap: I dislike the art on many or most ships lately, the anticipation for new ships is waning, and here are some examples to try to explain why that perhaps others can relate to.
Bottom Line
Some points will no doubt stand: beauty is in the eye of the beholder, "it's just a game," designs of fiction don't have rules, etc., so let's break it down to what matters in the end: whether one is willing to pay and/or acquire in-game resources for ships.
I've bought the DR Pack precisely because their appearance and theme happen to coincide well with what I like: exotic & unconventional shapes that contrast well with traditional ST ones, inspired by traditional stealth designs, rugged realistic appearance (more on this below), iconic to faction styles, and speed & cannon (Dauntless). I've also bought Zen to buy an Avenger, because like many Tier 5 ships unless they had an immediate appeal, it was a look that grew on you, one that you just couldn't go without.
Acquired Tastes and Instant Classics
Yes, at first I too found the Avenger too squished-in, the Vestas bland, and the Scimi too big and menacing. That changed in time, which is part of what good and even great artwork is supposed to do. A select few, in my case Odyssey, Prometheus, Ning'tao are instant classics at first glance, and, like the 'acquired taste' of the latter, are works of art from any angle that just never gets old.
Ambiguity
Between these two extremes are also a few that fall in the 'ambivalent' category for a long time, and then either graduate as 'acquired tastes' (personal examples: Dauntless, Scryer), or just stay that way indefinitely.
Chaotic New Trends
For the newer T6s, the Rom Command Battlecruisers, in my opinion, take the podium for preserving that rugged/realistic look of T5s, while the KDF variants released at the same time seem to set the stage for this disturbing new trend that's staining all new releases with, for lack of a better word, a juvenile appearance. The Fed Commands variants are saturated in this, as are other ships such as the T6 D'D, and even ships that mostly defy it like the Andromeda aren't entirely free of it.
Science Fiction & Realist Styles
This is what's hard to define, so to make a point, I will use sharp contrasting images to magnify the more subtle details that get lost in translation. Let's call this for the time being a Realist Style:
For historical reference, while I won't go into the details of the choice and meaning of the imagery, here's a short article titled "Spaceship Designs before the Space Age"
Now, here are some examples of real life & prototype aircraft & spacecraft:
XB-70 Valkyrie - YF-22 Raptor - Su-35 - YF-23 - Apollo Command/Service Module - Air Force's X-37B - SNC Dream Chaser
And some examples of spaceships found in film:
Avatar's Venture Star - Independence Day Fighter - Prometheus - Alien's Nostromo - 5th Element - Interstellar - Star Trek Nemesis Sovereign
Between the latter two categories, notice a resemblance? It is science fiction for that very reason, and not fiction fantasy with a space theme.
Finally, some real life ST ship models:
Star Trek 2009 - Sovereign
And a STO Remodelled Galaxy Class as a reminder that the ship reproductions in STO are even better than they appear in film.
Now, with all that, here's the KDF An'Quat Class Command Battlecruiser selected among many other newer ships because it amplifies this juvenile art style of late which I am trying to bring to light here.
These models resemble less and less of the kind of science-fiction type realism as pictured above, and instead start to look more like the following examples:
Star Trek 2009 Enterprise Toy - BoP-like Toy - NCC1701 Toy - Buzz Lightyear Spaceship Toy -
Rocketship Toy
Really take notice of the shape accents, color highlights, and size proportions in those toys. It is the kinds of stuff I for one am seeing in the new ships being released. It seems to be part of a disturbing trend of disregard for the sci-fi-type realism the game engine is capable of rendering, and of the mature customers and potential customers who appreciate art, but not the kind aimed at stimulating a child's imagination.
So back to the bottom line: would someone invest loads of gaming time and/or real life cash in pursuit of such ships fully knowing that they're directly or indirectly supporting certain standards of artwork production that they may not agree with? Many ships are having that effect right now, and if it isn't that, it's a lack of anticipation for what could be released given this continuing trend.
To recap: I dislike the art on many or most ships lately, the anticipation for new ships is waning, and here are some examples to try to explain why that perhaps others can relate to.
Bottom Line
Some points will no doubt stand: beauty is in the eye of the beholder, "it's just a game," designs of fiction don't have rules, etc., so let's break it down to what matters in the end: whether one is willing to pay and/or acquire in-game resources for ships.
I've bought the DR Pack precisely because their appearance and theme happen to coincide well with what I like: exotic & unconventional shapes that contrast well with traditional ST ones, inspired by traditional stealth designs, rugged realistic appearance (more on this below), iconic to faction styles, and speed & cannon (Dauntless). I've also bought Zen to buy an Avenger, because like many Tier 5 ships unless they had an immediate appeal, it was a look that grew on you, one that you just couldn't go without.
Acquired Tastes and Instant Classics
Yes, at first I too found the Avenger too squished-in, the Vestas bland, and the Scimi too big and menacing. That changed in time, which is part of what good and even great artwork is supposed to do. A select few, in my case Odyssey, Prometheus, Ning'tao are instant classics at first glance, and, like the 'acquired taste' of the latter, are works of art from any angle that just never gets old.
Ambiguity
Between these two extremes are also a few that fall in the 'ambivalent' category for a long time, and then either graduate as 'acquired tastes' (personal examples: Dauntless, Scryer), or just stay that way indefinitely.
Chaotic New Trends
For the newer T6s, the Rom Command Battlecruisers, in my opinion, take the podium for preserving that rugged/realistic look of T5s, while the KDF variants released at the same time seem to set the stage for this disturbing new trend that's staining all new releases with, for lack of a better word, a juvenile appearance. The Fed Commands variants are saturated in this, as are other ships such as the T6 D'D, and even ships that mostly defy it like the Andromeda aren't entirely free of it.
Science Fiction & Realist Styles
This is what's hard to define, so to make a point, I will use sharp contrasting images to magnify the more subtle details that get lost in translation. Let's call this for the time being a Realist Style:
For historical reference, while I won't go into the details of the choice and meaning of the imagery, here's a short article titled "Spaceship Designs before the Space Age"
Now, here are some examples of real life & prototype aircraft & spacecraft:
XB-70 Valkyrie - YF-22 Raptor - Su-35 - YF-23 - Apollo Command/Service Module - Air Force's X-37B - SNC Dream Chaser
And some examples of spaceships found in film:
Avatar's Venture Star - Independence Day Fighter - Prometheus - Alien's Nostromo - 5th Element - Interstellar - Star Trek Nemesis Sovereign
Between the latter two categories, notice a resemblance? It is science fiction for that very reason, and not fiction fantasy with a space theme.
Finally, some real life ST ship models:
Star Trek 2009 - Sovereign
And a STO Remodelled Galaxy Class as a reminder that the ship reproductions in STO are even better than they appear in film.
Now, with all that, here's the KDF An'Quat Class Command Battlecruiser selected among many other newer ships because it amplifies this juvenile art style of late which I am trying to bring to light here.
These models resemble less and less of the kind of science-fiction type realism as pictured above, and instead start to look more like the following examples:
Star Trek 2009 Enterprise Toy - BoP-like Toy - NCC1701 Toy - Buzz Lightyear Spaceship Toy -
Rocketship Toy
Really take notice of the shape accents, color highlights, and size proportions in those toys. It is the kinds of stuff I for one am seeing in the new ships being released. It seems to be part of a disturbing trend of disregard for the sci-fi-type realism the game engine is capable of rendering, and of the mature customers and potential customers who appreciate art, but not the kind aimed at stimulating a child's imagination.
So back to the bottom line: would someone invest loads of gaming time and/or real life cash in pursuit of such ships fully knowing that they're directly or indirectly supporting certain standards of artwork production that they may not agree with? Many ships are having that effect right now, and if it isn't that, it's a lack of anticipation for what could be released given this continuing trend.
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Post edited by alcyoneserene on
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At the same time, there are people on the forums who love the Typhoon and Jupiter, even if I think they are ugly reminders of STO's past. It is often mentioned when artwork is updated that the previous artwork "No longer resembles the current standards of quality", but certain ships from the 2009-2010 era of STO still exist alongside the current models.
I think what we are seeing is the current standard for science-fiction design. Not just in STO, but in general. With computer rendering programs being able to provide higher resolution, more detail, and more lighting/shading options than before, we're seeing artists able to expand on their take of what spaceships should look like. With newer, better tools, artists are producing newer, better designs.
If you examine the science-fiction art trends of the past, you see what was popular and what was not. To me it is really no different from any other art trend in society. I don't see anything disturbing about it, because art is organic. It evolves. Artists borrow styles and themes from other artists and put their own unique spin on it.
STO's artists take what is popular, what is trending, what works as eye candy -- and ever since the Odyssey was released, they've become more uniform with starship designs. Before, it really did seem like they were throwing art designs at a wall (maybe a Sam Wall) to see what would stick. Eventually, something did.
I think this is good because it produces art styles that are familiar. If you liked the Regent-class Assault Cruiser? Hey, maybe you'll buy the Avenger-class Battlecruiser because of its similar designs.
To me it appears that the Odyssey/Bortasqu' set the art standard. At first people were skeptical of the Odyssey and its split neck -- I know the first sketches were controversial. But eventually it became widely-accepted by a healthy enough majority of the playerbase that further designs were inspired by it. And other designs inspired by those designs, and so on and so forth.
I'm not saying Cryptic should absolutely throw out wild and unexpected starship designs -- because I always believe there should be 'hit and miss' starship designs. And if ship design continues to evolve, then there should be very different designs to help inspire every once in a while.
Things used to be regarded as 'juvenile' and hammy back when we were kids growing up. Looking back at all the matte paintings and the limited resources artists had to work with, maybe some things don't hold up so well. But it was the artistic trend at the time. And as long as Cryptic continues to honor Star Trek's past while continuing to do their own thing, I think they can find a healthy compromise.
That being said, 2410 upgraded designs of other canon ships would be great. The best way to get the New Orleans, Niagara, or Norway into the game would be to offer them as skins to 2410 designs for instance.
So, I really do believe there is room in STO for everybody to get a little bit of what they want.
Who on Earth would that be?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Nobody worth listening to!
I'm kidding. I respect other people's opinions on the matter of the Typhoon/Jupiter even if I don't agree with them. :P
Other factions seem to fare a bit better, tho Roms really got the short end of the stick on looks for the pilot ships, they look DREADFUL! KDF seems to be tilting completely towards Raptor designs which isn't bad, just wish there'd be a T6 Hegh'ta Bird of Prey soon, always loved that ship and it never got the work it deserved later on.
I guess I like them a lot because they are very Trek looking to me.
Although i am not a purist (i just like a certain elegant and fluid style) i find Jupiter and Typhoon really ugly, but cryptics obviously never cared about that when releasing ships (looking at Avenger or Patrol escort for ex.). On th eother hand i also find classy styled ships like the Excelsior and Odyssey (which has almost the same proportions as the Excel.) ugly, so my taste may not represent the big mass. lol.
On the other hand some ships like the old Star Cruisers and Galaxy are each beautiful and futuristic looking ships imo, although one is a canon and the other a Cryptic design. I'm not stuck with canon stuff so much, i really find most Cryptics ships bad designed, like the (T5) Avenger. Some canon ships for ex, like the Excelsior, Sovereign or Nebula aren't what i would call good looking either, but again that's purely a matter of personal opinion. I'd be the last to tell people what to like or not.
So i would say Cryptics devs should leave as much room for as much customization as possible, Including different styles of ship parts as possible, if they want to sell as many ships as possible.
(like the Heavy Cruiser for ex. which has very different shaped saucers and nacelles for ex.)
The Typhoon on the other hand I see as a beefed up Sovereign, it follows the same lines, it has a similar structure to the Sovereign and the Intrepid and look how a battleship should look, rugged and functional.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Well, not everybody is in it for the art I guess.
Myself, I've bought the Bellerophon and the Pathfinder (and would probably buy the Chimera if it were for sale) because I like the deflector/sensor dome design and hope to see it used more often. I'd hope that my money talks as loudly as anybody else's.
For example I truly despise the Federation Intel ships. Yes they are very fitting for classic stealth design, it's too bad they in exchange became pancaked, ugly, and pointlessly glowing. The Phantom looks like a saucer that separated then got lost. The Dunkin Class (or what some deluded folk call the Scryer) is a doughnut ffs. The Eclipse is passably Federation looking but still entirely too flat and glowy.
My favorite Starfleet design in canon was and always has been the Steamrunner class. It's got a good profile and it makes sense from a tactical perspective by having those weak nacelles nestled within the main hull.
That said I'm a big fan of a few of the more recent (Post DR) ships. Dauntless is one of my favorite designs in canon. The Command Battlecruisers are a bit strange but I have seen some fantastic kitbashes that very much look like Federation classic designs. Minus the "saucer trench" I really like the Pathfinder. The Guardian is growing on me as it pulls design from the Ambassador a lot and I've always thought the Ambassador was a sleeker, less ridiculously overlarge Galaxy.
I've loved the Avenger & Vestas from the day I started playing.
I am a Storyteller
Don't like how a ship looks? Simple, don't fly it. There is plenty of variety in ship choices. You can find something you like and so can everyone else.
The Patrol Escort actually owes much of it's profile to the Archer Class from the books. Similar role, too. Much, MUCH larger, but we're a hundred and fifty years on.
To me the Typhoon always looked like if klingons had designed a Starfleet ship with some parts laying around. It doesn't really carry the spirit of a Starfleet ship to me. Maybe i'm just an old fool, but for me a Federation Battleship is the Enterprise from "Yesterday's Enterprise" (TNG, Episode 3x15). But that's just my personal opinion and shouldn't matter much to you.
Never heard of that book. Was it written before STO was released ?
I always found the Patrol escort way too large for a ship that is supposed as almost as nimble as the defiant (which was never as nimbe in the shows as in STO btw.). Design wise if someone would have shown me that ship 10 years ago i would never ever guessed that it is suposed to be a Starfleet ship at all.
I agree with this model, and for one have no trouble seeing all sorts of ships in sector blocks, because it still gives the option of teaming up with some friends and using whatever ship style of choice each happens to have, such as all canon only.
By trying to raise awareness about design trends, and the desperate need for variety to cater to different style preferences, it makes it easier for more ships to sell.
Exactly. This would, in itself, maximize the appeal without locking down to a style preference. Take intels for example, which I fully recognize to be one of those that's either liked or disliked, with not much room for in-between. Yes, they've released minor variations, like the filled-in 'donut' of the scryer, and very few different ship skins that minimizes the glowy accents, but there aren't more rounded-out ship parts to play with for that wider appeal. It wouldn't break the ship theme either, as stealth designs include smooth round shapes. Examples: J-20 or General Atomics P46 Predator 'C''s front and top sections.
Along with 'sleek', that was my first thought when I joined over a year ago now when I only had the Odyssey in mind and little know-how to more efficiently acquire dilithium with only 1 or 2 toons even at a time of 150D/z. Looking back on the list of things acquired in STO, the $20 for zen during zen bonus sale was listed as "preparation for Vesta pack" and then couldn't decide between tac or sci variants because I liked the tac's deflector console but the Sci's looks, then couldn't go without either so saved for the pack after discovering c-store sales (Oct 4), and long story short consider the cash for the Avenger (Oct 5) and the extra grinding with a 2nd toon for the Vestas that I now still find one of the best looks of what Feds have to offer.
If it had the up to date high quality textures, and smoothing out of a few angles, it would be a great example of a more 'realistic' art-style of a ship made for battle, function, and design that's inspired by function. Instead, it's giant glowy nacelles covered in vibrant colors, over-sized and all rounded out to not be a choking or cutting hazard for infants and children: example
I have that same impression about both, but I like the idea of commanding a saucer, and a miniature space-station-in-a-ship that carries out scientific studies in potentially hostile territory.
The difference between the dauntless and scryer is the former's looks have really grown on me, perhaps as an explanation why I keep flying it, despite finding the scryer so much more effective as a dedicated science/intel ship. The wizard's staff-like warp nacelles combined with the rear panels still seems disjoint, and replacing them with the Eclipse's helps the aft section, but then ruins the front by completely choking the bussard collectors, so it's a no-win even if owning all current intel ships.
As for art playing a role or not in selling ships, I'd have jumped at the Rom Pilot ship pack had they been anything but a rush-job. Photos for reference http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9226623-star-trek-online%3A-rom-pilot-ship-stats. The components seem random shapes stuck together, along with random textures. If that wasn't enough, let's add some random fins, hooks, crab-like claws, and finish off with more random indents. Do any of them fire miniature thalaron pulses? No. How can anyone justify the nose section of the Okhala, a circuit-board like texture suddenly cutting off before a new texture appears out of nowhere made up of lines that have no respect for the coned nose or its hull plating. It's no longer waiting for them to go on sale, but deciding whether to just settle for them, hoping some rep gear can clean up the textures a little, because at the very least they don't suffer from that child-like design trend.
I don't know what I like about the Jupiter, I don't like the looks but it's so unique amongst Federation designs I want to fly one just for that.
'Yesterdays Enterprise'? That's just the normal Galaxy with a different bridge set isn't it?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I'm pretty sure these were based off of the some of the FASA stuff from way back when. Some of that stuff, especially for the klinks, was damned ugly.
Do you even see what you're saying? If you want "realism", go look at the Honorverse ships, or some hard sci-fi. You will see that they're boring as can be. Just because something has big glowy bits doesn't mean it's kiddy, and it certainly doesn't mean it's"unrealistic."
That is what pretty much all designs in Star Trek is about - evoking the right feel. Because there aren't any realistic technical reasons for any look.
There is no reason what so ever why the Sovereign Class would need to look sleek or "looking fast even when standing still". It's just that the particular shape used creates this feeling, and that was the intent. The shape of the ship is not actually making it go any faster (certainly not when standing still) - a Borg Cube is most likely still faster than that, and it doesn't evoke speed.
I had the same reaction to the Akira and Saber the first time I saw those some years ago. And, hell, lets be honest, the Defiant doesn't look like a Federation ship in the slightest - we only associate it with the Federation because it's from a Star Trek show. At a glance it would seem more at home in Star Wars.
Personally, I find the Patrol Escort looks more like a Federation ship than the Defiant. It has all the hallmarks - clear nacelles, saucer section, main deflector, and a discernible hull. It's an unusual layout, but no more so than the Akira, which lacks a secondary hull entirely in favor of those catamarans and pod. I think the Patrol Escort is a damn fine example of a Federation design in concept, and if it had been done in a style closer to canon rather than STO's comicbook-y aesthetic, it could easily have become a niche favorite right up there with the Steamrunner (another bizarre, barely Federation ship).
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