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Fight OUTRAGEOUS Exchange prices with a fair gambling ceiling
doubleohnine
Member Posts: 818 Arc User
Gambling is here to stay. I get that. It pays the bills. And even though I dont induldge in it, maybe I just found a way to let Cryptic get MORE money from lockbox and crafting gambling.
Gambling ceilings. Why do most players stay OUT of gambling? Because there is no defined end price to get the item you're after. But what if Cryptic put a ceiling on how much 1 player could lose per item?
Example: Lockboxes always gave out a set minimum amount of lobi. Lets use the Bug ship for instance. I would add all grand prizes in lockboxes IN the lobi store. Id set the Bug ship at max $50 worth of lobi. Current T6 ships are $30 new (last I looked). You could open 1 lockbox and score a bug, or you could open 50 and not get the bug you want. But you KNEW $50 worth of lockbox playing got you your bug.
Lets say the player is only looking to make a profit on bug ship selling. If he gets a lucky roll and only spends $35, maybe he sets his exchange price at $40-45. He makes a profit, but a gambling ceiling means he cant put it on the exchange for more than $49, because players know they can burn a max of $50 and get the bug themselves from the lobi store.
I see this as a HUGE win for Cryptic. It encourages MORE gambling by promising players they wont have to mortgage their house for a bug ship. Those like me who wont gamble with an endless ceiling are 75% more likely to risk a max of $50 on a ship I MUST have. Cryptic likely sets the odds to where you get a bug after $40, so most lockboxers can make a $1-9 profit from lockbox selling, and Cryptic gets an INSANE amount of more gamblers into the system with trusted defined odds. More will risk it thinking they can have a bug for lower than $50, hopefully lower than T6 $30.
You adjust the crafting system the same way. Adjust it to where the best modifiers people are after you actually get after x amount of crafting gambling. Profit can still be made by gambling crafters, but it sets a ceiling price on the best crafted gear because players know if they rank up their crafting, they too can get the perfect gear for x amount of dollar investment. Experienced crafters can still make lots of money off of selling to new players who havnt spent the time to become master crafters.
If I were Cryptic, Id go with this strategy that would bring in soo much more FAIR gambling income. What good does it do to scare off 95% of the players who wont or cant afford to blow endless amounts of money and NOT get the DIGITAL item they are after?
To the STO forum economist, is this a fair CAPITALIST solution for you? I feel it only HELPS the game by bringing in more money than they are getting now, and puts a DEFINED value on my dollar, which is all I was really after in my first exchange posting fee idea thread. I dont mind players making money off of gambling risk, or Cryptic, but since its just DIGITAL goods, lets be FAIR to the consumer in these gambling tactics.
Gambling ceilings. Why do most players stay OUT of gambling? Because there is no defined end price to get the item you're after. But what if Cryptic put a ceiling on how much 1 player could lose per item?
Example: Lockboxes always gave out a set minimum amount of lobi. Lets use the Bug ship for instance. I would add all grand prizes in lockboxes IN the lobi store. Id set the Bug ship at max $50 worth of lobi. Current T6 ships are $30 new (last I looked). You could open 1 lockbox and score a bug, or you could open 50 and not get the bug you want. But you KNEW $50 worth of lockbox playing got you your bug.
Lets say the player is only looking to make a profit on bug ship selling. If he gets a lucky roll and only spends $35, maybe he sets his exchange price at $40-45. He makes a profit, but a gambling ceiling means he cant put it on the exchange for more than $49, because players know they can burn a max of $50 and get the bug themselves from the lobi store.
I see this as a HUGE win for Cryptic. It encourages MORE gambling by promising players they wont have to mortgage their house for a bug ship. Those like me who wont gamble with an endless ceiling are 75% more likely to risk a max of $50 on a ship I MUST have. Cryptic likely sets the odds to where you get a bug after $40, so most lockboxers can make a $1-9 profit from lockbox selling, and Cryptic gets an INSANE amount of more gamblers into the system with trusted defined odds. More will risk it thinking they can have a bug for lower than $50, hopefully lower than T6 $30.
You adjust the crafting system the same way. Adjust it to where the best modifiers people are after you actually get after x amount of crafting gambling. Profit can still be made by gambling crafters, but it sets a ceiling price on the best crafted gear because players know if they rank up their crafting, they too can get the perfect gear for x amount of dollar investment. Experienced crafters can still make lots of money off of selling to new players who havnt spent the time to become master crafters.
If I were Cryptic, Id go with this strategy that would bring in soo much more FAIR gambling income. What good does it do to scare off 95% of the players who wont or cant afford to blow endless amounts of money and NOT get the DIGITAL item they are after?
To the STO forum economist, is this a fair CAPITALIST solution for you? I feel it only HELPS the game by bringing in more money than they are getting now, and puts a DEFINED value on my dollar, which is all I was really after in my first exchange posting fee idea thread. I dont mind players making money off of gambling risk, or Cryptic, but since its just DIGITAL goods, lets be FAIR to the consumer in these gambling tactics.
Post edited by doubleohnine on
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As good as this looks, Cryptic makes more in general, off of people spending hundreds-thousands on opening lockboxes, in the hopes of getting the grand prize ship.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Damn, beat me to it...
What he said.
Also, Isn't this topic kinda Deja'vu?
Edit: To the OP, while I agree that some things in the exchange are overpriced, it is unfortunately a price we pay for having a player run economy.
I'd suggest you just bite the bullet and accept the fact that the prices in the exchange are determined by your fellow players, and there is little that Cryptic SHOULD do about it. (Aside from what they did do with an 'upper limit' for posting prices)
Oh, and your numbers are a bit off, A Jem'Hadar Dreadnought costs approximately $225.00 (800 Lobi@4/box) worth in Lobi...
And you just know people would complain a storm if they ever did this...can you imagine the overflow of people who spent hundreds to try and get a ship? I'd imagine T6 bug or worse...
Back to the OP: Where do you get these numbers? 50 bucks of Lobi, if all you ever got was Lobi in 4's you could potentially be paying up to almost $250 for a Lobi ship...so I doubt they're going to let the grand prize go for a fraction of a lobi ship.
You quoted the wrong person, I didn't come up with any #'s, it is the OP!!!
:rolleyes:
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The thing sells for 500M+ at times. I'm no ace in maths, but that is way beyond $50 converted.
You do this, you banish all of these ships to be sold privately or in trade channels.
Its either that, or you de-value the ship to a point where no one cares which would be bad for Cryptic. People get these for their rarity and novelty first, performance doesn't matter much. How else do you explain why the craptastic Tier 5 Bulwark is still nowhere to be found for a remotely appropriate price (based on performance)?
As for crafting mods, how is it established what the best mods are? Sure, most players (nowadays anyway) will say CrtD. But Cryptic seems to put an equal value on all of them. For all we know, they consider DMGx4 to be the **** lol
"Let them eat static!"
Lets get things clear, it is not PWEs job to prevent you from purchasing Zen, as an adult, you are in control of your actions, the twinkie defense cannot be used here.
Players of this game have said FOR YEARS all the different ways to play the game to get things you want without playing the lockbox route, things take time, if you'd want instance everything, try a game on the WI, Xbox or playstation.
Just b/c a system does not work in your favor, does not mean it requires to be changed.
I'll always believe getting the middle class and poor to ALL spend is a better income per month than waiting for whales to risk hundreds on a silly digital ship in a game that isnt worth spending that kind of money on. Everyone stays out of PvP, so the grand prize is fairly worthless there, and the content release and character acting quality isnt worth being a big bad in this game. You'll say people do, but how much longer? Cryptic should know my strategy is the best, but they'll foolishly rely on whale blubber until the whales are extinct. Instead of relying on a higher quantity of middle class spending and earning the loyalty of the middle class if they use fair gambling practices.
Its JUST A GAME. Why have casino practices as if you're giving away a real Corvette in a lockbox? Another game can easy come on the scene and blow these whale hunting MMOs off the market by earning player trust with a commitment NOT to TRIBBLE them beyond a point.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Amen, well said.
Your finances are your own responsibility. Grow up, learn some sense of restraint and stop expecting everyone to protect you. If you can't be bothered to learn other ways of getting what you want or have the patience to learn restraint then you get what you deserve.
And while we're on the topic, we get it OP.. you hate the exchange. It was explained to you in the last thread you created that you don't NEED the exchange for anything. If you don't like how it works, don't use it. Creating a new thread about it every couple days won't change anything, it's just more clutter on the boards.
Before the torches are lit, I'd just like to say that STO doesn't have to specifically rely on 'whales' for its income.
Much of STO's revenue comes from C-Store ships, items, services and such. Which are priced so middle class and poor people can afford to have a 'shiny' or two.
Lockboxes, R&D promotions and Lobi ships are the only parts of STO that cater to the 'whales', which is why these items are so expensive to obtain, most STO players won't even bother with that stuff...
I can say from experience that having a big fat P2W monstrosity won't guarantee victory, I don't own any such ships and am consistantly out dpsing them in random encounters and pugs.
Please just let it be, you can't change how a game company caters to 'whales' by suggesting that Cryptic shoots itself in the foot with gamble caps.
I'm sorry...should have said back to the OP :P
Im not poor. I have PLENTY of casual gaming dollars to spend, but Cryptic hasnt made me want to spend it. In 5 years, Ive probably averaged paying in $75 a year, with most of that average bring altered by the original subbing days.
Im just not stupid enough to blow money on a game I dont perceive as being good enough or content releasing enough to try and be a power player in this game. I just keep offering ways to tempt me, a VERY fruggle spender in this game, to spend more money per year. Going all in on whale income isnt the smartest strategy. Especially for lazy TRIBBLE devs like Cryptic who wont release content and items at a rate that justifies what they want in STO income per month to keep their salaries paid. Going all in on greed mode is leaving THOUSANDS a month on the table. Instead of being known as the MMO that refuses to totally TRIBBLE their players with gambling tactics and offers store items and lockbox items for fair rates up to a point. Had Star Wars came in and done this, STO would have died last year. But SW went greedier than STO and they couldnt be a WoW killer either.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Tell me about it. Shall we just rip up the whole dynamics of the games economy so one player can finally get what they want as they currently don't have the cash? This has got to be the most "me, me, me" inspired scheme I've seen on the STO forums.
And no, I am not a megarich player before anyone tries it. I have 54 million in EC and 510k in dililithum. No a single lockbox ship to my name. I have am nowhere near rich and able to buy what I want on the exchange.
Also, it's a good thing you have no power within the game. I say that people should just continue to do what they want.
Also keep in mind, it does not matter how much money you have spent on the game, sub, lifer, etc, will all have am equal footing on advice to Cryptic, which is less then the crew that cleans their offices. We can suggest all day long, in the end we are only the consumers of the content.
Get off your high horse before the horse kicks you off.
I was here for the drought years. I have every right to call them lazy. Back when the players were throwing quality suggestions at them left and right on how to take our money, they wouldnt do it. Back when we were just begging them to use their own foundry to release official story content to keep the story coming, they refused, it was either blockbuster featured episodes or nothing. And they spent a year whining about breakroom cups, rather than give us content. They are ALWAYS chosing the less profitable way to make money from this IP, and it saddens me as a Star Trek fan to not see this game kick WoWs TRIBBLE.
Im not an entitled whiney player. Im 37 years old, Ive been gaming since the beginning of gaming time. Im a fair minded person and just believe theres more money to be had in MMOs from fair pricing to encourage middle class gamer spending than the recent trend of whale blubber reliance.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
I think I'm getting old too then. People are so quick to want to do things to TRIBBLE others over so they can get what they want because that's all that matters. I find it mean spirited. Making now two threads to find ways to punish in-game rich players who is just distasteful and negative imo.
When I'm flying along at warp or in at STF and I see someone rocking a Jem'Haddar Bug Ship, I think "cool" and know I'll never have that stuff because I don't do the lockbox game. But I know others do, good on them, that's fine and leave them be. Not try and find ways to drag them down to me or impede that system.
As you say, way of the world now maybe.
The exchange functions on EC, not USD, so this makes no sense.
You have no numbers to back this up. There is no guarantee that the number of new "gamblers" (although if they're guaranteed a ship - plus all the other lockbox junk - they're not really gambling anymore) will pay for the lost revenue from whales. And personally I'd put my money on Cryptic knowing their stuff more than a forum poster.
This means that Cryptic would have to admit that certain mods are better than others. More to the point, they'd have to know enough about making a build to understand which ones are better, and I haven't seen any evidence that they understand the mechanics of their game that thoroughly (see the premade builds in various episode content with a torp, a beam array, a DBB, and a dual cannon up front... sigh).
Again, where are you getting that 95% number? You do realize that just making up numbers doesn't prove your point?
I'm an actual economist. And, well, economics has very little to say about what is fair and what isn't, so the question is moot.
Personally, I don't like gambling so I don't participate in these things, and I agree that Cryptic isn't being fair because they don't post odds (like right in the tooltip for these RnD packs and in the C store).
The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. -Socrates
I'm sure the gamers pumping quarters into Ms. Pacman were only doing it because they believed the money was going to pay for reading lessons for blind dolphins caught in tuna nets.
I guess I should be used to the "get off my lawn" crowd, but as I get older it bugs me to think that these people may be a part of my generation now.
I have to disagree with this. $30+ for one ship that may only be used by one character is nothing resembling cheap in a F2P game. It is pretty outlandish for most F2P games to consider asking $30 for one piece of content that isn't a pure luxury or a full on expansion pack. And lets be honest, pre DR, you didn't really need a store bought T5 ship. But with the lack of free T5Us/T6s now, if you haven't gotten the few free ships already, you're expected to spend. Have fun in advanced queues with your freebie Luna or BOP.
But beyond that what does a lesser purchase get you? I mean if I want to spend $20 on entertainment, that doesn't get me anything in STO. If I have $20 to spend, and I can't get anything by spending it here, I may as well just go buy something different for some other game.
Saving it up is not a safe idea either. DR has proven that there is no point in looking forward in STO. Your ship may be obsoleted sooner than you expect, and you'll be asked to pay for it a second time. The content you liked may be removed or ruined by some change.
No, $30 on a ship isn't exactly whale territory, but anyone with less may as well go elsewhere, and those that do spend $30 have to be very wary of the fact that their purchase may be devalued heavily, and even be expected to pay for it a second time to continue using it.
Of course the exchange doesnt run on straight dollars, I was doing the conversion for the sake of easier reading. Meaning $1 buys 1 key, and 50 lockboxes max should be opened to score enough lobi to buy the grand prize ships. And converting those ships to EC value on the exchange should cap at $50 spent.
Making most of the playerbase feel rich in game encourages more spending by more players than making most of the playerbase opt out of the gambling because they cant or wont blow real money on digital goods.
I swear most of the forum should have Cryptic Defenders signatures with Avenger themes, the way you all blindly defend price gouging, instead of having the best the game can offer for a reasonable fixed amount of money even with a mild amount of gambling mixed in. As the smart folks have pointed out, true capitalist economic models cant relate to this game and its infinite amount of EC.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Lobi store ships already sell for less on the exchange than the lock box cost of earning the lobi.
For example the 900-lobi Xindi Ateleth ship sells for around 100 million EC, roughly $45 worth of lock boxes. You have to open $225 worth of lock boxes to earn 900 lobi.
You know the difference between real life and fake digital life right? You cant compare hitting it rich in vegas that can positively affect your REAL life IF you get lucky, vs hitting it rich in a fake gamer world.
My main point is games shouldnt even be allowed to use real world economic models to make money in a fantasy game. If it were up to me, there would be laws forcing gambling caps. The same way some states dont even allow gambling, there should be digital world protection as well.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Current ships go for around $50 worth of keys -- more the first week or so, then less. 100% success.
Odds of getting a ship with $50 worth of keys (0.42% chance): 19%
So the exchange is already 5 times better as it is now. No need for socialism.
Im saying CHANGE the lobi given in each lockbox to get to my desired ceiling of $50 freakin dollars for the best lockbox ship in game. And preferably a max of $10 ceiling value for the best crafted gear. Which decking out a whole ship would still be pricey, but its a fixed amount you could fairly work your way up to.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader