Cryptic please sort your tooltips

hojain2020

guys liking this game but honestly please explain the tooltips further. For example pilot ship the 3 console adds 33 percent to cannon damage yay but err to base or to the entire damage. I could be wrong here and have not gone through the number cruncher players results but it would help immensely if you guys would just be straightforward about this. thanks in advance.

hojain2020

Ofcourse if cryptic developed its own parser that was a tool bar in game... wouldn't that be awesome and refreshing?

warpangel

Yes, it would be great if the game was more transparent on the numbers and formulas. What affects what and how much. It would also be nice if such things displayed the actual internal values the game uses, not text someone typed in separately that frequently turns out to be entirely wrong.

And yes, it would be great if the game had an internal DPS meter.

cypherous

I would assume base

jerichoredoran

It would help nothing, find your spot:
Base weapon damage * (Weapons Power/50) * (1+Sum of Cat 1's) * (1+Sum of Cat 2's) * (1+Sum of Cat 3's) * (1+Sum of Cat 4's) * (1-percentage lost to damage fall-off) * (1+target's damage resist multiplier)=damage to target

How should that fit in a tooltip? And it would change everytime you change something else too... And (close to) nobody would understand that either.

warpangel

jerichoredoran wrote: »

It would help nothing, find your spot:
Base weapon damage * (Weapons Power/50) * (1+Sum of Cat 1's) * (1+Sum of Cat 2's) * (1+Sum of Cat 3's) * (1+Sum of Cat 4's) * (1-percentage lost to damage fall-off) * (1+target's damage resist multiplier)=damage to target

How should that fit in a tooltip? And it would change everytime you change something else too... And (close to) nobody would understand that either.

On the contrary, that doesn't look all that complicated to me at all. Assuming that is the actual damage formula. Source?

The only question is be which part of the equation various modifiers go into, because the tooltips don't say.

And if something doesn't fit in a tooltip, then it needs its own screen.

thatcursedwolf

Fixing Tactical Initiative's seemingly non-existent 0.45% recharge buff would be an easy one to fix on the tooltip. I wondered why they even cluttered up your bar with something so tiny.

45% or 0.45 would be something. 0.45% is nothing.

alex284

jerichoredoran wrote: »

It would help nothing, find your spot:
Base weapon damage * (Weapons Power/50) * (1+Sum of Cat 1's) * (1+Sum of Cat 2's) * (1+Sum of Cat 3's) * (1+Sum of Cat 4's) * (1-percentage lost to damage fall-off) * (1+target's damage resist multiplier)=damage to target

How should that fit in a tooltip? And it would change everytime you change something else too... And (close to) nobody would understand that either.

Not hard, actually.

Cat 3 is weapons modifiers (CSV, FAW, BO, etc.) and cat 4 is just Sensor Analysis. Weapons power, distance fall-off, and damage resistance multiplier have no place in the description of an item and base damage is the same for all weapons of a type (beam arrays do 100 base damage, DHCs do 184, etc.).

So only categories 1 and 2 are important to item descriptions. Cat 1 was originally meant to be "strength" and Cat 2 was supposed to be "bonus." That's why the really old tool tips - like those on the kill accolades - specify "strength."

That distinction has not been maintained and there isn't even a logical separation between the two categories. For example, there are set bonuses in both categories. But if someone sorted it out, they could use the words "strength" and "bonus" consistently so we'd learn to trust them.

@warpangel: That's the equation that's floated around for years on theory crafting threads, and there's an old thread that I'm not going to look up where Borticus (a dev) said the formula was right except that the devs look at it differently but multiplication is commutative so whatever. But I used it to calculate my weapons damage and I almost got perfect accuracy.

@hojain: There is nothing (except for Sensor Analysis) that multiplies "all damage" and everything technically multiplies with base. Since bonuses are additive within categories and multiplicative across categories, a damage bonus will multiply with everything outside of its category making bonuses in less-populated categories more valuable. Tons of stuff is Cat 1 (weapon mark and rarity, tac consoles, skill points, AMP, most set bonuses...) but not much is Cat 2 (a few set bonuses, EPTW, APO and APA, boff traits, and crit severity), so Cat 2 bonuses are better but they're still not multiplying "total damage" since they're not multiplying with other Cat 2 bonuses (APA and EPTW do not multiply).

Here is an incomplete list of what goes where: http://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/2h3fvc/of_theorycrafting_and_numbers/

daunknownadmin

alex284 wrote: »

Not hard, actually.

Cat 3 is weapons modifiers (CSV, FAW, BO, etc.) and cat 4 is just Sensor Analysis. Weapons power, distance fall-off, and damage resistance multiplier have no place in the description of an item and base damage is the same for all weapons of a type (beam arrays do 100 base damage, DHCs do 184, etc.).

So only categories 1 and 2 are important to item descriptions. Cat 1 was originally meant to be "strength" and Cat 2 was supposed to be "bonus." That's why the really old tool tips - like those on the kill accolades - specify "strength."

That distinction has not been maintained and there isn't even a logical separation between the two categories. For example, there are set bonuses in both categories. But if someone sorted it out, they could use the words "strength" and "bonus" consistently so we'd learn to trust them.

@warpangel: That's the equation that's floated around for years on theory crafting threads, and there's an old thread that I'm not going to look up where Borticus (a dev) said the formula was right except that the devs look at it differently but multiplication is commutative so whatever. But I used it to calculate my weapons damage and I almost got perfect accuracy.

@hojain: There is nothing (except for Sensor Analysis) that multiplies "all damage" and everything technically multiplies with base. Since bonuses are additive within categories and multiplicative across categories, a damage bonus will multiply with everything outside of its category making bonuses in less-populated categories more valuable. Tons of stuff is Cat 1 (weapon mark and rarity, tac consoles, skill points, AMP, most set bonuses...) but not much is Cat 2 (a few set bonuses, EPTW, APO and APA, boff traits, and crit severity), so Cat 2 bonuses are better but they're still not multiplying "total damage" since they're not multiplying with other Cat 2 bonuses (APA and EPTW do not multiply).

Here is an incomplete list of what goes where: http://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/2h3fvc/of_theorycrafting_and_numbers/

Thanks for this. I've just about given up trying to understand STO mechanics.

jaymclaughlin

Did some tests today and Sensor Analysis doesn't seem to be doing anything at all