As of now, I have crafted more things with [dmg] and [pvpdmg] [pvpres] and those useless mods that I threw away immediately upon completion than have successfully sold
The problem with this argument is .. .
a) The forums, despite what some people think, represents only a tiny (albeit vocal) part of the total game community.
b) WE don't have the numbers that Cryptic have, WE don't know how many players are willing to spend 18,000 Dil to instantly upgrade to Level 15 Crafting (which several players I know have done) and then spend countless more Dil to get the modifiers they want.
Cryptic DOES have these numbers. And apparently the numbers say "It's all good " If they didn't, then they would change it, just like the small number of changes they have already made to costs.
It's WAI for now and it's necessary for the game economy to function. Balancing an MMO economy isn't a simple task, and many, many companies have 'farfed' it up entirely.. Cryptic seems reasonably skilled at maintaining there in game economies.
The real problem is that people are willing to spend dilithium to clear wait timers. It's a predatory practice used by pretty much every free-to-play MMO on the market and it's difficult for anyone with any decency to respect. If they really wanted to sink dilithium, they'd get rid of the timers and allow us to spend dilithium to preselect a few desired modifiers. I refuse to pay to clear timers (I just log out or go afk) but I'd gladly pay to have an item modifier I actually want on something I make instead of risking another [pvp res] dud.
Wait timers with a currency cost to clear is pretty much the mechanically separated meat of MMO design. It's a cheap, easy-to-produce mechanic that does what they want it to, but it's unhealthy for the game and not very appealing to the players. There really are better ways to sink a currency. I'm going to quickly whip together a few right now:
- System to customize modifiers on gear at the cost of dilithium
- 1 projects per reputation with huge dilithium, ec, and mark costs to create a ship associated with that particular rep.
- Hell, just add new and worthwhile things to the dilithium store. Costumes, unique-but-not-overpowered weapons, pets, toys, etc. Go nuts!
And that's just a few quick throwtogethers. I'm sure an entire design team could come up with a lot more. Anything is better (and more respectable) than Farmville timers.
They should all be of equal value but do their jobs in a different way
you should be able to pick which mods you want
It appears game balance is a concept cryptic doesn't understand too well
There should be no BEST Mod
While I agree with you that all stats should be meaningful, balancing different stats on gear really isn't as easy as you make it out to be. Even games like wow can't get this quite right, and they've had 5 major expansions to do so. Even after all these years, people are stuck asking google what stats are best for their characters and which ones are to be avoided. At least in wow's case, different stats are useful for different classes/specializations.
I personally think they need to take good look at the existing modifiers and reassess what these mods actually bring to the table in terms of compelling gameplay. Aside from roll-the-dice-and-pray RNG (which practically nobody likes) I'd say not much.
b) WE don't have the numbers that Cryptic have, WE don't know how many players are willing to spend 18,000 Dil to instantly upgrade to Level 15 Crafting (which several players I know have done) and then spend countless more Dil to get the modifiers they want.
I just saw this in another reply and wanted to ask. Isn't that Dil cost low, or am I misreading?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I just saw this in another reply and wanted to ask. Isn't that Dil cost low, or am I misreading?
I suspect they mean "18k to instantly complete a research project." Based on the time currently remaining vs cost to clear the ones I currently have running, that sounds about right.
I suspect they mean "18k to instantly complete a research project." Based on the time currently remaining vs cost to clear the ones I currently have running, that sounds about right.
Right but not just jump to lvl 15. I have done one or two of those and I couldn't afford 1 - 15 just paying in dil. :eek:
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I just saw this in another reply and wanted to ask. Isn't that Dil cost low, or am I misreading?
Apologies, I should have been more specific. As mentioned the 18,000k Dil is to "finish now" on a Research XP project for a particular school.
I know of some players who have clicked "finish now" repeatedly until they got the XP to take them all the way to lvl 15 ( and even lvl 20 in beams with one player I know) spending I don't care to speculate how much Dil in the process.
Because the person is a long time player, plus a "whale" that has uncounted Millions of Dil, and Trillions upon Trillions of EC. (he/she has created several "personal" fleets that i know of, just to get the extra bank space they needed for all the in game credit and items)
THAT is the type of player we are dealing with. And while ever there are players like that or similar, (and there seems to be many of them) things won't be changed.
Apologies, I should have been more specific. As mentioned the 18,000k Dil is to "finish now" on a Research XP project for a particular school.
I know of some players who have clicked "finish now" repeatedly until they got the XP to take them all the way to lvl 15 ( and even lvl 20 in beams with one player I know) spending I don't care to speculate how much Dil in the process.
Because the person is a long time player, plus a "whale" that has uncounted Millions of Dil, and Trillions upon Trillions of EC. (he/she has created several "personal" fleets that i know of, just to get the extra bank space they needed for all the in game credit and items)
THAT is the type of player we are dealing with. And while ever there are players like that or similar, (and there seems to be many of them) things won't be changed.
Yeesh, and I thought I was a whale by spending $40-$120 a month here.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I do have a problem with random mods, which means I will never use it to craft anything.
Right now it is just a another slot machine, that you keep putting money into, and hope you hit the jackpot..
This.
I've crept my crafting schools up to 18 doing only research projects for this reason. Unless/until the randomness is removed I will do nothing else with the system once I hit 20.
Yes the CRafting and Upgrading really needs an overhaul.
1. Reduce the amount of TP needed for upgrading (101k for one VR shield XII to XIII is absurd really)
2. Reduce the amout uf Dilithum required. For the shield mentionend aboive i would need more than my daily amout of Dilly just to upgrade it from XII to XIII. Thats not encouraging me to upgrade or to play more and get other Rep. System and crafted gear
3. Let us select mods and fix the amout of mods for each level/rarity. I dont want to end up with a Dmgx2 mod or so after i invested resources and thousands of Dilly in an upgrade
4. Let us select the rarity we want to have even for upgrading. The higher the rarity the more it will cost. But the Cost will be reasonable, a small fee per rarity, maybe 200 dilly from rare to VR and 300 from VR to UR.
But before that the overall Dilly cost gets reduced (see 2)
I upgraded several TOS, Jem Hadar and Kobali Rifles. For each weapon it took me several attempts with exp. Upgrades to get them to very rare. With the Kobali Rifle i stopped after the 10th try and now only have a XIII rare Rifle.
And some Weapons only get one mod some get none and some get 3 when the rarity increases. that needs to change to a fixed number of mods
I don't do crafting (the old system didn't give any valuable stuff beside the Aegis set; the new system does not work for casual players) or upgrading (made one attempt).
Crafting and upgrading needs special Doffs and rare materials. You have to do STF's (all of them) because the materials are fixed to them. It takes so much resources that it is impossible to do for casual fun players. It''s like working. I don't work in a game. I'm playing in a game to relax.
I do some crafting for smaller toons, because there I get real good stuff (mostly purple) which would not be available otherwise. I pass it down via mail or account bank. But I never do anything higher than Mark X.
Summary: I'll use the new system more than I did the old system, but I don't do anything for the actual toon: only for the low level alt on this account.
i used today, for the last time the r&d system. 200 attemps with 2 toons, and only a heap of c..... weapons; with pvp(all), dmg, a mix of both. most of the weapons had at least dmg or a pvp. sorry but this is not random.
If this system was really random, we should be able to have the same number of each available mods.
the idea of crafting my own gears was interesting, but this r&d system is really a waste of time and ressources.
i would like to be able to choose between mods, not x2, x3, but at least crtd, pen, crth etc. dmg, pvp and snare (bugged) should be removed.
i would like to craft all these exotic weapons, piercing tetryon -> the upgrade of these weapons is bugged :P, caustic-plasma etc.
Why not just add a MOD slot to the Update options?
Tech, Catalyst, MOD
If no MOD is slotted, then the item would just upgrade without adding anything to it.
Cryptic could then add a MOD Craft option to each tree that would allow Captains to craft their own mods specific to that tree.
This way those who do PvP could add a PvP mod to the upgrade for their item that would guarantee they would get an appropriate item.
Ditto for PvE'rs. You could then ensure that you would not end up with a PVP item if you never PvP.
The system would just need to ensure that only 1 mod could be added to the item, and if any attempt to add a second/different mod was made, a message would alert the Captain that the new mod will replace the old mod.
why not, but this slot would like the catalyst item, put in the r&d box. 300 zen for a mod slot; personally no thx. this r&d system is already too expensive.
About the upgrade system:
1. Reduce the amount of TP needed for upgrading (101k for one VR shield XII to XIII is absurd really)
- timer everywhere even for small project, under 30 seconds
- all these crappy mods which should be removed;
- it doesn't seem really random, Dmg mod and pvp mods come more often
Upgrade system
today i left the game because i was really fed up with this system.
After more than 100 attemps (and only for TODAY) for a tetryon DBB with crtdx2 crth, finally i'm lucky, wow! a tetryon DBB with crtdx2 pen, after a ton of crappy weapons; the best was dmgx2 pvp(dmg)
thus, i try the upgrade system. btw, i bought an experimental upgrade (620000 ec) + a green accelerator (improvment chance: 320000 ec), i know, i could buy a blue accelerator, but for me they are too expensive. I don't buy these s..... R&D boxes in the c-store
btw, i don't try to have epic weapons, i'm already happy with Ultra rare.
second upgrade, wow! cool, ultra rare, i look at the weapon, and dmg was added :mad:
And this is not the first time, that one of my weapon is bungled.
i know nobody force me to use the R&D and the upgrade systems, i could buy MK XII-XIII weapons, but like the other players, i just want to have some cool weapons on my ships.
i'm not against the fact that these 2 system are random, but dmg, pvp(res), pvp(dmg) should be removed. the other mods can be useful or interesting.
if you like these systems like they are; well ok. But i don't think that many players like to see their time + a huge amount of dil and ec wasted for nothing. If these systems are intended to keep me in game, they failed.
your thoughts? (if you could avoid personal attacks, it would be nice; thank you)
you know, they could go other way, and no one would blaim them. and you are going to hate me for saying this. But this is very rare crafting, it could FAIL, as it is VERY HARD to make it, and you would get nothing. this way at least you get something, so go ahead and sell it on exchange.
i got nothing on upgrade, except that again, you are tuning your weapon to max. it could fail all so. but maybe a fail would be better, until you get what you wont.
try to sell a weapon MK II with dmg, pvp res/dmg :rolleyes: even 1000 ec for these weapons, is excessive.
most of the time: right click -> discard. after 20 right clicks, i earn 20000 c, wow, cool .
since 1 week, i try to sell an epic weapon with the famous dmg mod; i have lowered the price already 5 times.
you would get nothing.
i would prefer nothing, instead of frustration. frustration is the worst thing that i earn every day in this game and i can't sell it in the exchange
Comments
Wait timers with a currency cost to clear is pretty much the mechanically separated meat of MMO design. It's a cheap, easy-to-produce mechanic that does what they want it to, but it's unhealthy for the game and not very appealing to the players. There really are better ways to sink a currency. I'm going to quickly whip together a few right now:
- System to customize modifiers on gear at the cost of dilithium
- 1 projects per reputation with huge dilithium, ec, and mark costs to create a ship associated with that particular rep.
- Hell, just add new and worthwhile things to the dilithium store. Costumes, unique-but-not-overpowered weapons, pets, toys, etc. Go nuts!
And that's just a few quick throwtogethers. I'm sure an entire design team could come up with a lot more. Anything is better (and more respectable) than Farmville timers.
While I agree with you that all stats should be meaningful, balancing different stats on gear really isn't as easy as you make it out to be. Even games like wow can't get this quite right, and they've had 5 major expansions to do so. Even after all these years, people are stuck asking google what stats are best for their characters and which ones are to be avoided. At least in wow's case, different stats are useful for different classes/specializations.
I personally think they need to take good look at the existing modifiers and reassess what these mods actually bring to the table in terms of compelling gameplay. Aside from roll-the-dice-and-pray RNG (which practically nobody likes) I'd say not much.
I just saw this in another reply and wanted to ask. Isn't that Dil cost low, or am I misreading?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Right but not just jump to lvl 15. I have done one or two of those and I couldn't afford 1 - 15 just paying in dil. :eek:
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Apologies, I should have been more specific. As mentioned the 18,000k Dil is to "finish now" on a Research XP project for a particular school.
I know of some players who have clicked "finish now" repeatedly until they got the XP to take them all the way to lvl 15 ( and even lvl 20 in beams with one player I know) spending I don't care to speculate how much Dil in the process.
Because the person is a long time player, plus a "whale" that has uncounted Millions of Dil, and Trillions upon Trillions of EC. (he/she has created several "personal" fleets that i know of, just to get the extra bank space they needed for all the in game credit and items)
THAT is the type of player we are dealing with. And while ever there are players like that or similar, (and there seems to be many of them) things won't be changed.
Yeesh, and I thought I was a whale by spending $40-$120 a month here.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
You get a BIG TYVM, for being a spender on this game, it is what helps keep it alive!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
there are different species of whales, the biggest is the blue whale : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_whale, i would say that you are a minke whale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minke_whale
This.
I've crept my crafting schools up to 18 doing only research projects for this reason. Unless/until the randomness is removed I will do nothing else with the system once I hit 20.
1. Reduce the amount of TP needed for upgrading (101k for one VR shield XII to XIII is absurd really)
2. Reduce the amout uf Dilithum required. For the shield mentionend aboive i would need more than my daily amout of Dilly just to upgrade it from XII to XIII. Thats not encouraging me to upgrade or to play more and get other Rep. System and crafted gear
3. Let us select mods and fix the amout of mods for each level/rarity. I dont want to end up with a Dmgx2 mod or so after i invested resources and thousands of Dilly in an upgrade
4. Let us select the rarity we want to have even for upgrading. The higher the rarity the more it will cost. But the Cost will be reasonable, a small fee per rarity, maybe 200 dilly from rare to VR and 300 from VR to UR.
But before that the overall Dilly cost gets reduced (see 2)
I upgraded several TOS, Jem Hadar and Kobali Rifles. For each weapon it took me several attempts with exp. Upgrades to get them to very rare. With the Kobali Rifle i stopped after the 10th try and now only have a XIII rare Rifle.
And some Weapons only get one mod some get none and some get 3 when the rarity increases. that needs to change to a fixed number of mods
Crafting and upgrading needs special Doffs and rare materials. You have to do STF's (all of them) because the materials are fixed to them. It takes so much resources that it is impossible to do for casual fun players. It''s like working. I don't work in a game. I'm playing in a game to relax.
I do some crafting for smaller toons, because there I get real good stuff (mostly purple) which would not be available otherwise. I pass it down via mail or account bank. But I never do anything higher than Mark X.
Summary: I'll use the new system more than I did the old system, but I don't do anything for the actual toon: only for the low level alt on this account.
If this system was really random, we should be able to have the same number of each available mods.
the idea of crafting my own gears was interesting, but this r&d system is really a waste of time and ressources.
i would like to be able to choose between mods, not x2, x3, but at least crtd, pen, crth etc. dmg, pvp and snare (bugged) should be removed.
i would like to craft all these exotic weapons, piercing tetryon -> the upgrade of these weapons is bugged :P, caustic-plasma etc.
hasta luego R&D system :P
Tech, Catalyst, MOD
If no MOD is slotted, then the item would just upgrade without adding anything to it.
Cryptic could then add a MOD Craft option to each tree that would allow Captains to craft their own mods specific to that tree.
This way those who do PvP could add a PvP mod to the upgrade for their item that would guarantee they would get an appropriate item.
Ditto for PvE'rs. You could then ensure that you would not end up with a PVP item if you never PvP.
The system would just need to ensure that only 1 mod could be added to the item, and if any attempt to add a second/different mod was made, a message would alert the Captain that the new mod will replace the old mod.
why not, but this slot would like the catalyst item, put in the r&d box. 300 zen for a mod slot; personally no thx. this r&d system is already too expensive.
About the upgrade system:
exactly.
you know, they could go other way, and no one would blaim them. and you are going to hate me for saying this. But this is very rare crafting, it could FAIL, as it is VERY HARD to make it, and you would get nothing. this way at least you get something, so go ahead and sell it on exchange.
i got nothing on upgrade, except that again, you are tuning your weapon to max. it could fail all so. but maybe a fail would be better, until you get what you wont.
try to sell a weapon MK II with dmg, pvp res/dmg :rolleyes: even 1000 ec for these weapons, is excessive.
most of the time: right click -> discard. after 20 right clicks, i earn 20000 c, wow, cool
since 1 week, i try to sell an epic weapon with the famous dmg mod; i have lowered the price already 5 times.
i would prefer nothing, instead of frustration. frustration is the worst thing that i earn every day in this game and i can't sell it in the exchange