Cloaking Devices

dmt

Can someone please tell me why the cloaking device available with the Galaxy Dreadnaught/Tactical Retrofit is not equippable on the Tactical Refit?

Let me also say that I am happy with the methods currently used to get the cloaking device console but that does not stop me from wanting to slot the console on the T4 refit version of the T5 tactical retrofit, especially considering that they're both meant to be the Defiant-class.

On a similar note, can a developer tell me why the Avenger Battle Cruiser, a non-canon design in itself, can use a cloaking device console while the Chimera Heavy Destroyer, designed for use in the same conflicts as the Avenger, cannot mount the same console?

Again, this is not an attempt to change the way of GETTING the cloaking device console, merely allowing its use on two additional starships, one canon and the other not.

torgaddon101

I know for a fact that u feddies are sticking them on the freighters, cause I can't find them anywhere..

karr007

The reason is marketing. The Avenger is big step in federation ship design. First true battlecruiser. When it was released it was the most nimble fed cruiser (now the Eclipse is). It is quite possibly logical development on fed combat ship, based on defiant philosophy. Smaller nimble design, reduced crew and more firepower (4 tac consoles, and 5/3 weapon slots) The cloak synergy is also justified based on that assumption but is also marketing trick (You know if you buy that one other ship you can make the avenger cloak). About the Tactical Refit - very simple that is lvl 30 ship and at lvl 30 you can't buy VA ship. Anyway you can use the skin of the refit on the retrofit, so no bad marks there. Also if you want to cloak in a fed ship - just buy one of the intel ships.

dmt

I know the difference between the two types of tactical escort but I happen to find my playstyle works better with the refit version.

I would be hitting level 50+ and then using the refit version so I don't quite get your comment about the skins and the fact that the Retrofit is a VA ship.

And for the record, NO T6 starship in the Fed roster looks appealing enough for ME to want to buy.

karr007

For real, you want to use T4 ship for endgame? Good luck with that on advanced difficulty.

dmt

Thanks for your uninformed vote of confidence in my abilities.

icsairguns

karr007 wrote: »

For real, you want to use T4 ship for endgame? Good luck with that on advanced difficulty.

ever seen those Vo'quv KDF carriers flying around in end game?

angrytarg

icsairguns wrote: »

ever seen those Vo'quv KDF carriers flying around in end game?

Vo'Quv is T5, though. Which doesn't mean anything is wrong with using a T4 at endgame. Before the T6 Explorer was released, the T4 Venture-Type Exploration crusier was superior to the T5 retrofit as well

Unknown

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karr007

Looks like i got myself a few black points for saying that T4 defiant refit is not good. Let me explain in greater detail. DMT says that this is the ship that best matches his play style and that he will play endgame with it. Well i am sorry but if play style is his argument then i can prove him wrong. In space the ship is the base of your play style (In detail - ship type, boff seating, console slots, weapon slots - etc). Now indeed T5 Defiant retrofit has 2 eng boff slots instead of 3 which is important difference that i can accept. But surely there are other escorts that upgrade the T4 Defiant refit boff slots, consoles and weapons. Actually there are 2 very very easy to obtain ships that can do that - Patrol escort and Mirror patrol escort. Same boff layout (lt. tac is upgraded to Lt com tac, but you still retain the same science and eng boff and console slots) + 1 tac console, + 1 rear weapon + more hp. All these advantages at the price of -1 turn rate and - 10 inertia. I am sorry but it is pretty clear that the Basic patrol escort will serve excellent to the play style based on the T4 defiant. So why you should stick with T4 ship that is inferior to basic non T5-U one?

corelogik

dmt wrote: »

Can someone please tell me why the cloaking device available with the Galaxy Dreadnaught/Tactical Retrofit is not equippable on the Tactical Refit?

... snip ...

Because, the T4 Tac Escort is NOT in the list of equippable ships. The T4 and Refit version doesn't come with the cloaking device, the T5 Retrofit does. So, you can use it on T5 Retrofit and up. Lower than T5 Retrofit is simply not rated for a cloaking device.

See item tool tip here;


That's the actual reason. As to why in a more Meta sense,... probably why we don't have a T5 COnnie or Miranda,... only the Dev's know.

dmt

I know the actual reason: that it is not on the list of ships. But isn't your argument like saying that of the three Breen ships only the Sarr Theln, as the most advanced, is capable of mounting all three consoles?

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dmt

The above post is all well and good, except for the part about tiers.

The Sarr Theln is a T6 carrier that comes with the Resonant Dissipation Matrix console. According to the tooltip located on the STO wiki this console is available to mount on T5 ships (the Chel Grett & Plesh Brek) as well as the Sarr Theln it was bundled with.

How is the above any different to asking for a T4 starship to use the console that was bundled with its T5 variant?

corelogik

Ok, last try,...

Think of it like this.

You buy a 2014 model Sports Car. It has a 6 cylinder engine. The next year, 2015, they make a change to the frame/body of the 2015 model, and now it comes with an 8 cylinder engine. They're not going to go back and retroactively modify all 2014 models with the frame mod to accept a 8 cylinder engine.

STO obviously isn't a direct translation of the metaphor, but the basic principle holds. They released the T4 Defiant WITHOUT provision for a cloaking device. When they released the T5, they had made such changes as need to now mount it. Therefore, the T5 model and later, since all new iterations would presumably include such provisions introduced with the T5, can use it.

That may not be the answer you're looking for, but it is how it is. As to why in a more Meta sense as in, what legal/contractual/marketing decision or restrictions prevented you from doing X, as I said before, only the Dev's know. There may or may not be some legal/contractual/marketing reason they did not include it, there may not be. We likely will never know.

In any case, you have your answer. Whether you like or accept it is a totally different issue. Arguing with fellow players over it because you don't like their totally plausible answers in absence of hard facts, likely will get you nowhere and, since the intro of T6 and some Flee T6's now,... you're not likely to ever get anyone interested in going back and making a change, however insignificant it may or may not be, to a T4 ship.

age03

I would say it is time to end the treaty and let fed use cloaking devices.

warmaker001b

age03 wrote: »

I would say it is time to end the treaty and let fed use cloaking devices.

They already are. They have been for years in STO.

Defiant
Galaxy-X
Avenger
Aquarius

Built-In Cloaks:
Phantom
Eclipse
Scryer
And these 3 can pack a punch, too.

If anything, the list has gotten longer than the old Defiant & Galaxy-X.