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The Cloaking Device Universal Console, and why it should be changed.
captmunroe
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I know there are probably a ton of people who are going to come into this thread, and tell me all about how the Cloaking Device Universal Console shouldn't be changed, or that the Federation "shouldn't even have Cloaks" but things are different now, and I think it's time the Cloaking Device Universal Console is changed.
As it is now, the Cloaking Device Universal Console is useable on the following ships:
In addition to those ships being able to become cloakable via the Cloaking Device Universal Console, there are other Federation ships that now come with cloaking technology built into them:
Then on top of that, there is also now the Reputation Trait "Quantum Singularity Manipulation" which is a 5 Second Battle Cloak which can be used on any Federation Starship.
At this point, it is obvious that the Treaty of Algeron, which is what prevented the Federation from being able to use cloaking technology, is either no longer in effect, or is no longer being enforced, now that the Federation and the Romulans are in essence aligned due to the destruction of the Romulan Homeworld. Also, if that treaty is still in effect, then the Federation regularly violates it, being that the Treaty of Algeron also states that any violations of the Romulan Neutral Zone without adequate notification by Starfleet is considered an act of war.
So, whether stated in the storyline or not, it is quite obvious that the Treaty of Algeron is effectly dead, as the Federation regularly enters Romulan Space, and the Federation has new ships which have built in cloaking devices.
What I propose is this: Being that in order to acquire a Cloaking Device Universal Console. one must purchase a C-Store ship which comes with it, I think it should be changed so that it can be equipped on any ship. It's not like one can purchase it with Lobi, or Dilithium (except via purchasing Zen via the Dilithium Exchange, and then buying a C-store ship), nor is it sold at any vendor, and it can't be sold on the exchange. All this would do is make the Cloaking Device Universal Console more useful for those who have it from a C-Store ship that they purchased.
If PWE/Cryptic will not make it so it works on any Federation ship, at the very least it should be changed so that it works on Exploration Cruiser variants, as the Cloaking Device Universal Console works on the Dreadnought Cruiser, which itself is in actuality a Exploration Cruiser Variant. It is the only console from the 3 Consoles that come on the ships in the Galaxy Bundle that doesn't work on all three ships, and being that they are all essentially the same ship with minor modifications, this doesn't make sense to me. Especially when you consider that in the episode "Pegasus" from "Star Trek:The Next Generation" they fitted the "Phasing Cloaking Device" from the U.S.S. Pegasus to the U.S.S. Enterprise-D without modification, so clearly the Galaxy Class (known as the "Exploration Cruiser" in game) is cloak capable.
I hope that PWE/Cryptic will take my first suggestion and change the Cloaking Device Universal Console so that it can be equipped on any ship, but if not, I hope they at least take my second suggestion, and make it work on Exploration Cruiser variants, as there is no logical reason why it shouldn't work on them.
As it is now, the Cloaking Device Universal Console is useable on the following ships:
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Aquarius Light Escort
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Fleet Aquarius Light Escort
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Fleet Aquarius Light Escort (T5-U)
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Battle Cruiser
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Battle Cruiser (T5-U)
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Fleet Battle Cruiser
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Fleet Battle Cruiser (T5-U)
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Dreadnought Cruiser
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Dreadnought Cruiser (T5-U)
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Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser
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Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser (T5-U)
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Tactical Escort Retrofit
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Tactical Escort Retrofit (T5-U)
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Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
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Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit (T5-U)
In addition to those ships being able to become cloakable via the Cloaking Device Universal Console, there are other Federation ships that now come with cloaking technology built into them:
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Eclipse Intel Cruiser (T-6)
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Phantom Intel Escort (T-6)
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Scryer Intel Science Vessel (T-6)
Then on top of that, there is also now the Reputation Trait "Quantum Singularity Manipulation" which is a 5 Second Battle Cloak which can be used on any Federation Starship.
At this point, it is obvious that the Treaty of Algeron, which is what prevented the Federation from being able to use cloaking technology, is either no longer in effect, or is no longer being enforced, now that the Federation and the Romulans are in essence aligned due to the destruction of the Romulan Homeworld. Also, if that treaty is still in effect, then the Federation regularly violates it, being that the Treaty of Algeron also states that any violations of the Romulan Neutral Zone without adequate notification by Starfleet is considered an act of war.
So, whether stated in the storyline or not, it is quite obvious that the Treaty of Algeron is effectly dead, as the Federation regularly enters Romulan Space, and the Federation has new ships which have built in cloaking devices.
What I propose is this: Being that in order to acquire a Cloaking Device Universal Console. one must purchase a C-Store ship which comes with it, I think it should be changed so that it can be equipped on any ship. It's not like one can purchase it with Lobi, or Dilithium (except via purchasing Zen via the Dilithium Exchange, and then buying a C-store ship), nor is it sold at any vendor, and it can't be sold on the exchange. All this would do is make the Cloaking Device Universal Console more useful for those who have it from a C-Store ship that they purchased.
If PWE/Cryptic will not make it so it works on any Federation ship, at the very least it should be changed so that it works on Exploration Cruiser variants, as the Cloaking Device Universal Console works on the Dreadnought Cruiser, which itself is in actuality a Exploration Cruiser Variant. It is the only console from the 3 Consoles that come on the ships in the Galaxy Bundle that doesn't work on all three ships, and being that they are all essentially the same ship with minor modifications, this doesn't make sense to me. Especially when you consider that in the episode "Pegasus" from "Star Trek:The Next Generation" they fitted the "Phasing Cloaking Device" from the U.S.S. Pegasus to the U.S.S. Enterprise-D without modification, so clearly the Galaxy Class (known as the "Exploration Cruiser" in game) is cloak capable.
I hope that PWE/Cryptic will take my first suggestion and change the Cloaking Device Universal Console so that it can be equipped on any ship, but if not, I hope they at least take my second suggestion, and make it work on Exploration Cruiser variants, as there is no logical reason why it shouldn't work on them.
Post edited by captmunroe on
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1) KDF doesn't have cloaking on all its ships (not even all Klingon ones). Why should *all* Fed ships have it?
2) Right now you have the option of console or cloak. If you get cloak, you should lose a console. This amounts to across-the-board power creep for ships that weren't designed (by the devs) with cloaking devices in mind.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
Not all Federation Captains would have access to cloaks, only Captains who obtained the Cloaking Device Universal Console via buying a C-Store ships that comes with it already would. Being as they already possess at least one cloakable ship already, I fail to see how this would have any major effect in that sense.
I am not proposing it be changed from a console to a blanket ability all ships have. I am merely suggesting that the console be not limited to a few select ships. Using the Cloaking Console would still take away a console slot.
What I am suggesting does not create a significant power creep, nor does it create a loss of a game-playing advantage. I already have a Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser, therefor, I already possess a Cloaking Federation Ship. How would it be any different if I took that same Cloaking Device Universal Console and put it on, say, my Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Why does it matter which ship I equip it on? Has the Dreadnought Cruiser itself caused a significant power creep, or loss of a game-play advantage? I don't think it has.
What I am proposing changes nothing about the console other than it not being limited to the ships listed in the first list I provided above. It would still fill up a console slot.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Universal_Console
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
I understand that, but the Cloaking Device Console doesn't really provide all that much of an advantage. I have been using it for a year, and frankly, about all it's good for is hiding, and sneaking up on people. The bonuses it provides to a ship are negligable when you're at level 60, and your ship is maxed out. It's not like I'm asking for it to be a battle cloak. I'm merely asking that the console, which in reality I paid money for, be usable on all Federation ships. What difference does it really make if I'm using it on my Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, or my Exploration Cruiser Retrofit instead of my Dreadnought Cruiser? I really fail to see how it'd be any different. In fact, I'd argue that that console is most effective on the Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser, considering it can use both the Saucer Separation Console and the Anti-matter Spread Console, plus it's got high hull hp, has a hangar, and the Spinal Phaser Lance.
And in PvE the cloaking console was and is and will most likely always be trash and a perfect way to gimp your ship.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Capt, you are thinking too small. We are in the age of T6 starships with traits! Just make Enhanced Battlecloak part of the trait for the next "Iconic T6 ship pack". T6 BoP, T'Varro and Defiant, with an Enhanced Battlecloak trait you can unlock for all your ships!
I am not suggesting that cloaks be put on all Federation ships for all captains, only for captains who have the Cloaking Device Universal Console from the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser or from the Tactical Escort Retrofit from the C-Store equipped in a console slot on their ship. Only players who have purchased one of those two ships would have access to that Cloaking Device. My argument against your suggestion is that the KDF and Romulans both have plenty of ships that do cloak, and many are equipped with battle cloaks, so KDF and Rom players would still have an advantage without having the ability to use the Cloaking Device Universal Console. So I don't think that they shouldn't be able to use it. There is no Federation ship that has a battle cloak, so increasing the number of ships I can cloak with that Cloaking Device Universal Console doesn't even level the field.
IF I were going to make an argument for Feds to have battle cloak, I wouldn't argue it should be a trait. I would suggest that they make a set using the Cloaking Device Universal Console, the Saucer Separation Universal Console, and the Molecular Cohesion Nullifier Field Universal Console, and have it it so that it is an additional bonus power when you have all three equipped. But being as so many non-fed players get their panties in a bunch whenever someone suggests a change to the Cloaking Device Universal Console, I'm not going to bother asking for that. And frankly, I don't need it. I have the Rom Rep Trait which gives me what I call the "5 second Battle Cloak"... While cloaked, I activate that, then immediately disengage the Cloak from the Cloaking Device, and then I can open fire while still cloaked. So I'm not worried about a console or Starship trait that gives battle cloak...
Look. The Treaty of Algeron is obviously dead in the water. And I'm not asking for everyone to have the ability to cloak their fed ships. I paid for that console with cash when I bought the Galaxy Bundle. It's not like one can buy it with in game currency from a vendor (unless you count spending a ton of Dilithium on Zen to buy a ship that comes equipped with it), or even from the rep system. I don't see why something I paid cash for should be limited to a handful of ships when in reality, the console is most effective on the ships it is already usable on. IMHO, it's MOST effective on the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser, so why shouldn't I be able to use it on a Heavy Cruiser, or some other Federation Ship?
KDF and Romulans use cloaking devices extensively, Feds don't, different styles.
The treaty of Algeron was nothing more than a plot device to give a reason "why" Federation ships do not use cloaking devices.
As a Fed, I tend to agree with you. I have Romulan and Klingon ships with and without Battle Cloak and personally, I don't find it that useful except in very specific circumstances.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Well, in the past, people have cited the Treaty of Algeron as the reason for not altering the Cloaking Device Universal Console. And frankly, your argument doesn't really hold water anymore, considering that there are three federation ships that come with it built in now. Not too mention the fact that the Cloaking Device Universal Console is usable on the ships in the first list I put in my post, and that the Cloaking Device Universal Console is pretty much most effective on those ships, so I fail to see how using it on other ships would make any real difference.
Despite it requiring a ship purchase for a console and, needing take up a console slot, the mere fact of having the ability to cloak ALL Fed ships at that point, now outweighs the KDF ship lineup.
The KDF only have so many ships that have a cloak and, you are asking for the ability for ALL Fed ships to be able to cloak with a single console so, therefore the KDF would also require a console from X ship to have the same ability if this were to happen.
Otherwise, it's wayyyyyy over advantaged on one side.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Lemme correct you on something.
You're right in regards to Rom ships all having battle cloaks. But last I checked, for the most part, with only a couple exceptions, the only KDF ships that have BC are BoPs. A couple other ships besides those have it, true, but far from all. Really, for the most part, KDF either deal with only basic cloaks that are usually on ships with inferior stats (see: Raptors) to any roughly compared Fed or Rom ships or have no cloaks at all.
But my question is...why? What are you lacking that makes you want to use the cloak console on so many Fed ships? Normal cloak is still usually junk pretty much in a vast majority of the content in the see, ie PvE. And as I've been told oh-so-many times before, PvPers are 1% of the game at most, and if you cloak in there, there's other ships that can do it better.
Ok then the question I have to ask you.. if normal cloak is junk why do you care if or anyone else care if a Fed captain gives up a console slot for it?
After all there are a ton of much more "useful" console they could slot in that console slot so why should anyone care if they give up a console slot for it.
No it doesn't. Not everyone who plays has the Cloaking Device Universal Console, and most people likely aren't going to buy a Federation Dreadnought Cruiser or a Tactical Escort Retrofit just to get the console, because in reality, as others have stated, it's not all that much of an advantage to have. And as I already stated, that console is already most effective on the ships that it is already usable on (Especially on the Dreadnought Cruiser). Using it on a Heavy Cruiser would be less effective than using it on my Dreadnought Cruiser, so why shouldn't I be able to use it on the Heavy Cruiser?
The bonuses it provides are negligible when you really think about it. It gives +50% Defense while cloaked (which isn't really very helpful when you consider your shields are disabled), and +15% Damage Bonus for 5 seconds after decloaking. The only way that +15% becomes powerful is if you are one of those power-gamer PvPers who already does absurd amounts of DPS. In over a year of using it, I have yet to notice a significant increase in my weapon strength while under the effect of that "damage bonus".
Again, I fail to see how me being able to use the Cloaking Device Universal Console, which is of limited availability due to requiring the purchase of a Ship from the C-Store, which is most effective on the ships it's already usable on, on any Federation ship would change the balance of power in any way.
I mean for real, I can use it on the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser, which has the Spinal Phaser Lance, a hangar that deploys 4-6 hangar pets, which can use the Saucer Separation Console which gives me another hangar pet that also has the Spinal Phaser Lance, and can also use the Anti-matter Spread Console. It is quite literally less effective to use the Cloaking Device Universal Console on any other federation ship, so again, I fail to see how using it on another ship I own changes anything.
I'm not lacking anything. I just think it's absurd that a console, of limited effectiveness, that I paid money for, isn't capable of being equipped on more than a handful of ships. Being able to use it on more ships at least adds some usability to it. Also, I'll admit that I'd like to be able to use it on other ships just for kicks. I think it'd be cool to be able to use it on an Exploration Cruiser, or my Heavy Cruiser, or one of my other Federation ships, despite the fact that it would be a less effective use of the console than using it on my Dreadnought, or my Tactical Escort Retrofit.
If this was the past, I'd make an argument for why that shouldn't be, but honestly, anymore...I really don't care. Truthfully I see the game having larger issues, 'bigger fish to fry' as it were, than whether or not certain Fed ships can or cannot cloak. I ask what I ask as I simply wonder why some still so want cloaks on their ships, when for the most part, cloaking is just a simple, and often times stat-lowering gimmick for many ships that are equipped with it.
I can certainly understand that. Honestly anymore they should probably just stop futzing around in terms of cloaks, make all ships can can cloak do so without a console, and without stat losses due to it. Just level the playing field, so to speak.
On one hand the idea that the feds get wide spread cloaks when my Vo'Quv still can't makes my stomach sick.
On the other hand if this happened I'm willing to guess the console would find its way into a lockbox soon
The entitlement is reaaaallly strong in this thread now. :rolleyes:
You already got "exactly" what you paid for, nothing more and nothing less.
No. No. No.
To be honest, you aren't really providing anything useful to this conversation... Also, you haven't really provided any legitimate reason against what I proposed.
Exactly how does making it so that the Cloaking Device Universal Console can be used on any ship make any real difference? Especially when, as I've already stated, the Cloaking Device Universal Console is already most effective on the ships it's already usable on?
I mean think about it... I can (and do) use it on the Federation Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser (T5-U), which has high hull strength, a hangar, the Spinal Phaser Lance, and can use both the Anti-matter spread console, and the Saucer Separation Console which gives me another combat pet (the Saucer section) which itself has a Spinal Phaser Lance. How is using it on any other ship more effective than that? Using it on any other ship makes it less effective.
So, the only question I have left is: Are you gonna answer my post with some real answers, orjust continue to ignore my questions and reply with useless, unproductive replies like the ones you've posted thusfar?
I'd like to point out that that is the reason I did not suggest it being made into a device. I think it should remain a console. Also, I think it should remain only available via Ship Purchase.
For the KDF players, I'll suggest that maybe the Cloaking Device Universal Console should be added to two KDF ships, one that is equal to the Tactical Escort Retrofit, and one that is equal to the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser. This would give KDF players the same ability to get it that Fed players do. Although, If you own the Federation Dreadnought Cruiser, or the Tactical Escort Retrofit from the C-Store, and your KDF character is Federation aligned, then you'd already have access to it. So I'm not sure that that'd be fair, because then KDF players would have 4 different ships they could acquire it from, whereas the Fed players would only have two.
My suggestion fits logically into the current story line in the game.
I also say no to this. I agree that the Cloaking Device Universal Console should remain just that, a console. By it being a console, you are taking a small penalty on your ships offensive capability for a little more defensive capability. Changing it to a device would remove that penalty. So again, I have to agree that it should remain a console.
Using in-game/plausible/logical reasons as to why an object, in this case the cloaking device console, doesn't seem to work very well on these forums.
I, however, FULLY support your idea!