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Pilot ships Gimped for KDF .97 shield ?

icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
edited May 2015 in Klingon Discussion
so looking at the stats they Gimped us again

larger crew size than the other 2 @ 120 vrs 90 and 45

shield mod .97 romies are there with us but feds 1.05

and we only get standard cloak which is pretty much useless while the rommies get the battle cloak .

and we have a litle more hull than the other two making the crew size gimp a bit more noticeable.


and sense its a raptor im guessing it will get that borked turn we all know and love. but will have to wait and see on that one.

i do like that stay on target trait, and the Lt commander sci seat on the sci version. (still no sensor scan or second deflector so we still dont have a sci ship)

and i really like that they are all 5 tac console ships
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


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Comments

  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    On 8k Shields the difference between .97 and 1.05 is 640 points, and KDF get 3,200 more Hull. With a ship doing 5,000 DPS it is how many seconds to drop that extra 640 pts of Shields versus dropping the 3,200 more Hull? At the end of the day I would probably rather have the extra Hull. :)

    As far as Cloaks and Battlecloaks, has that not already been hashed out? Roms get Battlecloaks.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Battlecloak would have been nice, but it is a raptor so that's understandable

    The impulse mod is just below that of the risian corvette and a turn rate that's higher than the defiant implies we aren't getting gimped there.

    The lower shield mod is a holdover of having a cloak and the higher hull/crew has been a staple of kdf ships since launch, hardly unexpected. Hell if the crew mechanic worked as it was supposed to it would be a plus in the ships favour, as is the higher base hull is still favourable since there are so many NPC enemies that can strip your shields in seconds these days.


    I really wouldn't call these ships gimped.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    On 8k Shields the difference between .97 and 1.05 is 640 points, and KDF get 3,200 more Hull. With a ship doing 5,000 DPS it is how many seconds to drop that extra 640 pts of Shields versus dropping the 3,200 more Hull? At the end of the day I would probably rather have the extra Hull. :)

    As far as Cloaks and Battlecloaks, has that not already been hashed out? Roms get Battlecloaks.

    That's the raw difference in shield capacity...doesn't take into account the effective capacity nor that it also affects regeneration.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Outside KDF Battlecruisers, any KDF ship with any sort of cloak has a lower shield mod. That included even the much maligned Raptors, going as far back as Launch Day Lv40 Qin Raptor. I can bear with that.

    The crew thing though is another annoyance that never will be rectified.

    What I am surprised though is that the Pilot Ships have comparative hull to regular Escorts but are faster and better turning than them by a large margin. Only the JHAS/JHSS, Risian Corvette can compete in overall handling. But the Corvette is notably weaker hulled.

    I was expecting the Pilot Ships to indeed by superior in impulse and turn rate mods but at a cost of lower hull. Somewhere in between Escort and Raider hulls to compensate for the extra turn/speed. But that isn't so.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Outside KDF Battlecruisers, any KDF ship with any sort of cloak has a lower shield mod. That included even the much maligned Raptors, going as far back as Launch Day Lv40 Qin Raptor. I can bear with that.

    The crew thing though is another annoyance that never will be rectified.

    It was a lot easier to accept the Cloak for Shield Mod and the Turn for Hull Mod stuff before Romulans though...meh.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It was a lot easier to accept the Cloak for Shield Mod and the Turn for Hull Mod stuff before Romulans though...meh.

    Man, the Romulans threw balance under the bus in so many different ways. Like their hulls aren't weaker despite everything having Battle Cloak. Lots of Rom players out there have no idea how nice the Silver Platter was handed to them by Cryptic.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Where can I find the stats on the pilot ships? I kind of need them to ajust a ship in the 2 pack thread to a sugestion that was made.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    trennan wrote: »
    where Can I Find The Stats On The Pilot Ships? I Kind Of Need Them To Ajust A Ship In The 2 Pack Thread To A Sugestion That Was Made.
    we're Excited To Show Off The Full Capabilities Of Our Pilot Ships In Our Latest Blog. The Corps Of Engineering Have Given Out Their Full Schematics On These New Beauties!

    you Can Find The Federation Escorts Here.

    you Can Find The Kdf Raptors Here.

    you Can Find The Romulan Warbirds Here.

    ~laughingtrendy

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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    That's the raw difference in shield capacity...doesn't take into account the effective capacity nor that it also affects regeneration.

    I don't believe shield mod, has any relevance on shield regen but, I could be wrong!

    From my understanding, it is only a multiplier for capacity and, nothing else.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I don't believe shield mod, has any relevance on shield regen but, I could be wrong!

    From my understanding, it is only a multiplier for capacity and, nothing else.

    It's a simple check.

    Hop in a ship with X Shield Mod. Look at Superior Shield Repair.
    Hop in a ship with Y Shield Mod. Look at Superior Shield Repair.

    The Shield Mod still modifies Shield Regeneration.

    Heck, don't even have to do that...lol...can just look at the Shield Regen with the same shields on two different boats.
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    While it's not a beauty pageant, I must say the new ship is ugly as hell. I would say imo it's the ugliest one they have ever released KDF side.

    As for the stats yeah shafted a little but it's not overly terrible. I love the pilot abilities it's just a shame it comes on such a ugly frame. I'll be giving this a miss as I know for me it will be a waste of money as I'll be wanting to jump ship ASAP.

    Really these pilot abilities should have been given to all Raptor's and escorts in-game, like how the other ship classes have special features (cruiser commands, sub system targeting/dual deflectors). It's a shame a really good missed opportunity.
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  • bismarck1975bismarck1975 Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wow, just wow. While I can feel the pain many KDF have over being screwed on story missions being rehashed Fed content, no Sci ships, no T6 Carrier, etc., how can people complain about these pilot ships. Seriously.....They have the best hull, a cloak like every KDF ship(save BoP and carriers), and a nice 5/2 layout. Not to mention, finally a decent ship with a Lt. Com Sci BO slot. Shield mod is pretty good IMO when you consider 42k hull and its turn rate/inertia.

    Honestly, the only thing that pisses me off about the ship is that I just purchased the Qib and its fleet version. Should have waited for this ship. Bah. Oh well, if I decide to pony up the cash, I do have the cannon trait from the Qib. :rolleyes:
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wow, just wow. While I can feel the pain many KDF have over being screwed on story missions being rehashed Fed content, no Sci ships, no T6 Carrier, etc., how can people complain about these pilot ships. Seriously.....They have the best hull, a cloak like every KDF ship(save BoP and carriers), and a nice 5/2 layout. Not to mention, finally a decent ship with a Lt. Com Sci BO slot. Shield mod is pretty good IMO when you consider 42k hull and its turn rate/inertia.

    Honestly, the only thing that pisses me off about the ship is that I just purchased the Qib and its fleet version. Should have waited for this ship. Bah. Oh well, if I decide to pony up the cash, I do have the cannon trait from the Qib. :rolleyes:

    Well, Pilot Spec has been out for weeks now. That should have been a clue that something was coming down the pipeline VERY soon ;)
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  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Bah. Oh well, if I decide to pony up the cash, I do have the cannon trait from the Qib. :rolleyes:

    That trait is nothing to sneeze at either, sure its not the best out there since cannons are secondary to beams for dps these days but if you want to run cannons that trait is great, be it in getting a BC to turn reasonably well or as I've done for a laugh, throwing it on a BoP, its insane on a BoP... specially if you add the momentum trait for the hell of it. :p
  • potasssiumpotasssium Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The only thing gimping them is the fact I would need to buy 3 to piecemail a good hull together, while the Mat'ha is a beautiful Raptor with a fun console, and one of my favorite ships in the game.

    I went KDF with the Command Cruisers with no regrets, but these pilot Raptors are not getting me out of my Mat'ha.
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  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I must be one of the only people that actually likes how these new raptors look, couple of oddities in them sure, but the tac one looks pretty slick as a standalone and it not for the head on the engineering one id say the same for it, science is a bit meh but it does have the odd bit that looks ok.
  • doktormarengodoktormarengo Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I actually think KDF got the best deal for once. The new ships look really good and the stats are quite nice.

    The fed ships look too boxy for my taste. While the Romulan ships don't really look Romulan in style to me.

    But the KDF ships nailed it.. imho.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    narthais wrote: »
    I must be one of the only people that actually likes how these new raptors look, couple of oddities in them sure, but the tac one looks pretty slick as a standalone and it not for the head on the engineering one id say the same for it, science is a bit meh but it does have the odd bit that looks ok.

    Similar thoughts so you're not alone. If I were buying these (I've already got a Mat'ha so no need), I'd kitbash the hull and neck of the tac version with the head and wings of the eng version. Put on a normal looking skin instead of that black triangle pattern and I think that'd be a nice looking ship.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    narthais wrote: »
    I must be one of the only people that actually likes how these new raptors look, couple of oddities in them sure, but the tac one looks pretty slick as a standalone and it not for the head on the engineering one id say the same for it, science is a bit meh but it does have the odd bit that looks ok.

    It is odd reading some of the comments out there...things I'd expect folks to have said about the KDF Command Shoeboxes and not the Pilot Raptors.

    While I've got no interest in flying them in the least, I do think they look pretty damn cool (then again, I'm probably still having haunted dreams about the Command Shoeboxes).
  • simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    While I have to say the Kilngons did not get the shaft here. I think it is up to par with how all other Kilngon ships are. And the people complaining about battle cloak, is there an other Raptor with battle cloak? I honestly don't know. I would expect a T6 BoP in about six week when the Defiant might come out.
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  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There are only two klingon ships that are not BoPs that had battle cloak, the veteran destroyer and the intel BC. there was no realistic expectation for these Raptors to have one.
  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    simeion1 wrote: »
    While I have to say the Kilngons did not get the shaft here. I think it is up to par with how all other Kilngon ships are. And the people complaining about battle cloak, is there an other Raptor with battle cloak? I honestly don't know. I would expect a T6 BoP in about six week when the Defiant might come out.

    no but in an age where a battle cruiser gets battle cloak (qib) and feds can even get ships with standard cloak now. shared tech via the 3 factions and all that. there is absolutely no reason why the KDF being the warrior race of the lott would not upgrade the cloak on newer ships. the gimping is that all the other factions get new and or upgraded things and the KDF still gets the same ole gimps as always.

    as for the borked turn i was talking about its not the turn rate i was talking about the pivot point.

    nd dont get me wrong i didnt say the ship sucked completely just in this day and age of copy paste they still took the time to make a few changes to the kdf ship that effect it in combat in detrimental ways. nothing massive but the fact its still there is the point.

    and i really just wonder how the people that dont see it can even comment when they seem to be lacking in game mech and kdf game mech in particular.
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Probably because for people not trying to squeeze 75K plus DPS out of ships don't actually consider these things that much of a detriment, in fact for most people the result of the minor disadvantages is negligible at best.

    The crew mechanic is probably the most noticeable and even that's barely going to effect people that aren't min/maxing.

    To put it bluntly: on paper its a disadvantage, in practical experience its mostly irrelevant.
  • miirikmiirik Member Posts: 483 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    icsairguns wrote: »
    no but in an age where a battle cruiser gets battle cloak (qib) and feds can even get ships with standard cloak now. shared tech via the 3 factions and all that. there is absolutely no reason why the KDF being the warrior race of the lott would not upgrade the cloak on newer ships. the gimping is that all the other factions get new and or upgraded things and the KDF still gets the same ole gimps as always.

    as for the borked turn i was talking about its not the turn rate i was talking about the pivot point.

    nd dont get me wrong i didnt say the ship sucked completely just in this day and age of copy paste they still took the time to make a few changes to the kdf ship that effect it in combat in detrimental ways. nothing massive but the fact its still there is the point.

    and i really just wonder how the people that dont see it can even comment when they seem to be lacking in game mech and kdf game mech in particular.

    the qib got the better cloak because thats how intel ships work. if it doesn't have a cloak, it now has one, if it has cloak, it's got romulan cloak, if it's romulan cloak, then it's an even better cloak somehow.
  • greendragon527greendragon527 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I'm actually with one guy here, I'd have to buy all 3 because I don't like any of them in totality, but can see a sexy Frankenstein in there. I also have the Mat'ha as well, but this is a straight upgrade in consoles (why?), turn rate, inpulse and shield mod, at the cost of only 2k hull at lvl 60, on top of being able to use maneuvers. Can anyone explain the consoles btw, that really irks me, specifically tactical pilot raptor vs the Mat'Ha. Anyway, I prefer the looks of the Mat'ha but the playstyle I like to use and the stat upgrades make me think this might be my second next buy.
  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Have those ships been released? When I read the release notes there was a mention of a known issue with gravity well and Pilot Ships. I don't see a mention of them being available anywhere. This piqued my curitosity.
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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I also have the Mat'ha as well, but this is a straight upgrade in consoles (why?), turn rate, inpulse and shield mod, at the cost of only 2k hull at lvl 60, on top of being able to use maneuvers. Can anyone explain the consoles btw.

    Because these are a 3-pack of ships, they're Fleet quality out of the box. The Command ships were the same way, as were the Odyssey, Vesta, Kumari, Bortasqu, and Scimitar when those were all released. The Mat'ha is a normal T6 ships that can be upgraded to Fleet but doesn't come that way straight away, hence one less console slot and lower shield mod. A more apples-to-apples comparison would be to compare the stats between the Fleet Mat'ha vs the engie variant of these.
  • edited May 2015
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  • kelshandokelshando Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    I despise raptors-and I'm buying them.

    Let's start with the obvious;

    Turn rate 20
    Inertia 75

    5/2 weapons layout with 5 tac consoles.

    The tactical version even LOOKS like a BoP.

    Downsides:

    High Hull/big crew to slow down your between engagements repair rates, lower shield mod than Feds-yep, we're still paying the 'Cloaking tax' that the Romufeds are exempt from.

    It's about frelling time we got an Escort/Raptor that was somewhat competitive. The sheild mod doesn't bother me, but it WILL require a change in fundamental tactics for transition from a Bird of Prey.

    I'm sorry how the Romulans exempt from the "cloaking" tax? They have a 9.7 shields same as KDF but with less hull then the KDF. Less starting power do to there singularity cores at the start of the fight.

    As for as the Feds... other then the intel ships they give up a console for that reg. cloak.

    I really don't understand the complaining. As KDF have been asking for a 5 tac escort... they finaly get one.. and some are still complaining. /boogle
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    kelshando wrote: »
    I'm sorry how the Romulans exempt from the "cloaking" tax? They have a 9.7 shields same as KDF but with less hull then the KDF. Less starting power do to there singularity cores at the start of the fight.

    As for as the Feds... other then the intel ships they give up a console for that reg. cloak.

    I really don't understand the complaining. As KDF have been asking for a 5 tac escort... they finaly get one.. and some are still complaining. /boogle

    It's "Boggle" not "Boogle."

    Outside the Romulans and KDF Battlecruisers, anything with any sort of Cloaking Device, whether it's built in like KDF ships or requiring a console, like the Defiant, has a Shield Mod Penalty.

    Or in the case of the Birds of Prey, they pay for their Battlecloaks with the lightest hulls possible in the game. Only things lighter in hull are Shuttles. And this is on top of the Shield Mod penalty.

    Let's take a few old school examples.

    T5 Fleet Norgh BOP (Battle Cloak): Hull 27k, .88 Shield Mod
    T5 Fleet Qin Raptor (Standard Cloak: Hull 36k , .92 Shield Mod
    T5 Fleet Defiant (Standard Cloak/Console): Hull 33k, .99 Shield Mod
    - The Defiant's shield mod got tweaked up some time ago, used to be there with KDF Raptors. Can't recall how far back it got sent up.

    Then 3 Warbirds:
    T5 Fleet T'Varo (Romulan Enhanced Battle Cloak): Hull 29k, .99 Shield Mod
    T5 Fleet Mogai (Romulan Battle Cloak): Hull 36k, 1.1 Shield Mod
    T5 Fleet Dhelan (Romulan Battle Cloak): Hull 34k, 1.0 Shield Mod

    I haven't even touched the T6 stuff for examples yet :)

    And of course, the KDF Battle Cloak =/= Romulan Battle Cloak
    KDF Enhanced Battle Cloak =/= Romulan Enhanced Battle Cloak

    Romulan Warbirds pay very little for their raw offensive, stealth capability. Why it's like that are due to 2 general benefits: Warbirds that pay no penalty for their Cloaks and capability. Their completely overpowered Captain & BOFF Traits that synergize with Warbirds and Cloaking technology/warfare. Their Singularity Abilities also give that extra bit of "Save me now" to offset their lower Subsystem Power (which itself can also be negated with Romulan Engineers and endgame builds).
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