You were warned!

thay8472

Added Solanogen-Based Lifeforms as NPC Contacts.
Added Iconian Heralds ground NPC Group.
Added Iconian space NPC Group.
Corrected the display names for some Vaadwaur ships

Now they're coming for us!

carter60

thay8472 wrote: »

Now they're coming for us!

if we are going down we'll take them with us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRoCX6TIOWw
just change reapers to iconians and we're good

thay8472

Hmmm Time for an Iconian Foundry Series? :P

Devs can we get a... Yellow Iconian?

drogyn1701

So, on Twitter we've been throwing around some ideas about a community series, but a bit different from Purity.

How I'm kind of envisioning it now is a collection of everyone's individual Iconian War missions. Anyone who wants to make an Iconian War mission can be a part of it. Few if any requirements on the content of the mission other than that main subject matter, but we can promote all these missions together as one. We can also make up some characters that could be used in each mission if authors want.

Castmodean coined it: Tales from the Frontlines: An Iconian War Anthology.

Seems like it could be a great way to sort of expand this plotline beyond what Cryptic will be able to do, but it doesn't have the structure or deadlines that Purity had. What do you guys think?

thay8472

drogyn1701 wrote: »

So, on Twitter we've been throwing around some ideas about a community series, but a bit different from Purity.

How I'm kind of envisioning it now is a collection of everyone's individual Iconian War missions. Anyone who wants to make an Iconian War mission can be a part of it. Few if any requirements on the content of the mission other than that main subject matter, but we can promote all these missions together as one. We can also make up some characters that could be used in each mission if authors want.

Castmodean coined it: Tales from the Frontlines: An Iconian War Anthology.

Seems like it could be a great way to sort of expand this plotline beyond what Cryptic will be able to do, but it doesn't have the structure or deadlines that Purity had. What do you guys think?

Awesome idea.

Only restriction I can think of would relate to the level requirements that come with using the Herald Npcs. (Which I'm going to assume will be 60.)

Pretty please devs. Could we get a "Foundry Iconian" ? or maybe make our own Iconian? (Aka An Iconian we can go crazy with that won't effect your storyline?)

novapolaris

I really like that idea, Drogyn.

However, a lot of the missions I've been working on or planning will tie in to the Iconian plotline (some planned from well before the Iconian War update). I was actually working on at least one whole mission series of 5-7+ episodes.

Could I discuss with you what I could do with this, Drogyn, if I could participate in that new community series? I also have characters I can contribute. (So long as they and the missions are good enough.)

drogyn1701

What I think we would do is create like a three letter tag or something people could put on the front of their mission titles, indicating they are part of the anthology. That way really anyone could be involved if they wanted. We'd keep like a master list of missions, and maybe make things like posters and forum signatures for the anthology that people can display.

As for the missions themselves, I would say make whatever mission plot you want, as long as obviously it ties into the war somehow. My Iconian War mission ideas also date from way back, I'm actually adapting and rewriting a small series I had started as a rewrite of the 2800.

I also think as far as recurring characters go, we would create a library of characters (which would include descriptions, costume sliders, etc) that people could pull from if they wanted, but they would not be a requirement.

We don't yet know what the minimum level requirement of the Herald mobs will be yet. But, keep in mind there are other servitor races that can be used: Solanae, Elachi, Vaadwaur, Bluegill.

castsbugc

Well the prime advantage to the anthology idea is that they dont have to be interconnected. The binding threads being the assault of the heralds and defense of strategic footholds in the homelands of the major powers. If we need a thread tying them all together, then perhaps we have the player redeployed to each 'hotzone'

thay8472

drogyn1701 wrote: »

We don't yet know what the minimum level requirement of the Herald mobs will be yet. But, keep in mind there are other servitor races that can be used: Solanae, Elachi, Vaadwaur, Bluegill.

And when in doubt you can always make up your own.

starswordc

Yay, always wanted to add the most erratic Star Trek villains since Shinzon to my mission portfolio.

Seriously, not a damn thing the Iconians have done since season 8 makes one lick of logical sense. In "Surface Tension" SHLIFFG* gives that speech about "don't attract our attention", and I'm going, "Hang on, wasn't this whole mess your idea to begin with? When did we attract your attention?"

Then they turn up in the latest episode with planet-busters on all their ships, and they blow up... a functionally uninhabited planet with no strategic significance whatsoever. (Okay, so they killed some Preservers. Boo hoo. Thot Trel had a point: fat lot of good that wild goose chase in the "Breen Invasion" arc did us.)

* The nickname Worffan101 came up with for the Iconian in "Surface Tension".

patchm142

starswordc wrote: »

Then they turn up in the latest episode with planet-busters on all their ships, and they blow up... a functionally uninhabited planet with no strategic significance whatsoever. (Okay, so they killed some Preservers. Boo hoo. Thot Trel had a point: fat lot of good that wild goose chase in the "Breen Invasion" arc did us.)

I see the Iconians as conquerors, not destroyers. They're not going to use planet-busters on every world, because they'd just be destroying pieces of their future empire - probably the only reason they haven't used it on Earth or Qo'nos is because they want to subjugate everyone into servitors eventually. Blowing up Lae'nas was probably their way of making sure all possible evidence was gone in the easiest way possible.

Then again, I agree about the "DO NOT ATTRACT OUR ATTENTION" part followed by Uneasy Allies' "YOU WERE WARNED. YOUR GALAXY IS FORFEIT." I mean ... isn't that their entire goal ... ?

thay8472

Defera is packed with Preserver technology. Granted it most likely doesn't have living preservers, but still... best blow it up before we learn of ya secrets M'Tara.

starswordc

patchm142 wrote: »

I see the Iconians as conquerors, not destroyers. They're not going to use planet-busters on every world, because they'd just be destroying pieces of their future empire - probably the only reason they haven't used it on Earth or Qo'nos is because they want to subjugate everyone into servitors eventually. Blowing up Lae'nas was probably their way of making sure all possible evidence was gone in the easiest way possible.

Then again, I agree about the "DO NOT ATTRACT OUR ATTENTION" part followed by Uneasy Allies' "YOU WERE WARNED. YOUR GALAXY IS FORFEIT." I mean ... isn't that their entire goal ... ?

Yeah, but you would've thought they would've targeted something that was actually worth a damn strategically, like a starbase or something. Hell, even Grand Moff Tarkin went after a planet with major symbolic importance as his demonstration target, even if it had little to no military significance.

Sure, they're conquerors, not destroyers. But the best way to conquer something is to eliminate actual strategic targets to make it harder for your enemy to resist. C.f. the Reapers, who went after capital planets and major strategic installations first in Mass Effect 3 (e.g. before hitting Earth they blew up Arcturus Station, site of the Systems Alliance Parliament), trying to decapitate their enemies and destroy the command structure (admittedly with varying degrees of success: no battle plan survives contact with the enemy).

Basically, the impression I'm getting is that Iconians are a bunch of hammy idiots with big guns. More Goa'uld than Reaper.

paxfederatica

I have an idea for an Iconian War mission that could make a good addition to this series. (WARNING: Ghosts of War spoilers ahead, in black text; highlight that text to read it.)

As you may know, once Foundry editing comes back I will be adding an optional Delta Recruit objective to each installment of my Ghosts of War series. Their underlying premise is that the Devidians are Iconian servitors; since the Iconians themselves are incapable of time travel, they have recruited the Devidians to do their temporal dirty work for them. This fits well with another idea I've been kicking around. Several players/reviewers of "Ghosts of War, Part V" have asked whether I plan to update the ESD sequences on that mission with the new ESD map. Since that mission series is explicitly set in the year 2409, the answer to that question is no. However, tying the GoW series into the Iconian War would provide story justification for me to make a whole new mission revolving around an assault on the new ESD. I'm thinking a running firefight that starts in the shuttlebay, then progresses through the main atrium and finally culminates in another "Battle of Club 47".

Now, I'd still have to flesh out the story around that idea, but there's definitely some potential here. Also, anyone else doing this series can feel free to do their own follow-up on the premise I've mentioned above in black spoiler text, which could have some Temporal Cold War potential in its own right.

markhawkman

drogyn1701 wrote: »

We don't yet know what the minimum level requirement of the Herald mobs will be yet. But, keep in mind there are other servitor races that can be used: Solanae, Elachi, Vaadwaur, Bluegill.

You can add Tal-Shiar to that.

Maybe Fek'lhri too....

@Starsword: The point of destroying the Preserver Archive was to deny the alliance knowledge. The Preservers knew many things about the Iconians that we don't... And M'Tara wanted those secrets to die with them.

@Pax: I wonder.... what if the Devidians are instead a relic population of a race that was horribly disfigured in the war against the Iconians. Perhaps their appearance is not natural and they were changed by a weapon of some sort the Iconians tried to use to wipe them out?

As someone pointed out in a ten-forward thread, the Devidians seem almost like the natural enemy of the Iconians.

paxfederatica

markhawkman wrote: »

@Pax: I wonder.... what if the Devidians are instead a relic population of a race that was horribly disfigured in the war against the Iconians. Perhaps their appearance is not natural and they were changed by a weapon of some sort the Iconians tried to use to wipe them out?

As someone pointed out in a ten-forward thread, the Devidians seem almost like the natural enemy of the Iconians.

My DR dialogue sets it up as a strange-bedfellows type of alliance. In "Sphere of Influence", the Iconians' dossier on Earth suggests they want to see humans wiped out because, in the Iconians' estimation, humans would never make either willing servitors or unwitting catspaws. And in my Ghosts of War series, the Devidians are seeking to destroy all life on Earth to collect their neurochemical energy as a vast new source of food. As you can guess, their two goals dovetail quite well with one another.

markhawkman

paxfederatica wrote: »

My DR dialogue sets it up as a strange-bedfellows type of alliance. In "Sphere of Influence", the Iconians' dossier on Earth suggests they want to see humans wiped out because, in the Iconians' estimation, humans would never make either willing servitors or unwitting catspaws. And in my Ghosts of War series, the Devidians are seeking to destroy all life on Earth to collect their neurochemical energy as a vast new source of food. As you can guess, their two goals dovetail quite well with one another.

Hm... perhaps make them a bit more like the Undine in that they're a race manipulated into doing things and not willing servants?

I just find it hard to visualize the Devidians taking orders...

thay8472

so...

Servitor Races:

Elachi (Warriors)
Solanae (Scientists)
Heralds (Better warriors / servents)
Bluegills (Intel / spy )
Tal Shair (Most likely cannon fodder?)
Vaadwaur
Fek'lhri (?)


(?) = Unsure

Foundry Servitor Races:

Tuhota "Rise of Mol'Rihan"


Anyone got any aliens out there they want to donate to the glory of the Second Iconian Empire? :P

markhawkman

I'd throw the Fek'lhri in the cannon fodder category too.

starswordc

@thay: My personal feeling is that after the events of "Dragon's Deceit" through "Takedown", the Vaadwaur are more likely to be the Iconians' enemies as much as the Alliance is, rather than in the "servitor" column. The fact that Gaul had to have his generals infested with bluegills to ensure their loyalty suggests they wouldn't have willingly gone along with the plan.

Whether out of decency or pride is another question entirely, but either way, I doubt they're still Iconian-aligned and I think there's a good opportunity there for the Alliance to turn them into allies.

But add the bluegills to that list.

drogyn1701

What you might have, and what might create some interesting storylines, is two groups of Vaadwaur. One is the free Vaadwaur, who might at least not be actively hostile toward the Alliance, and the enslaved Vaadwaur, i.e. whatever's left of Gaul's people who were infected with Bluegill.

Also something I've been kicking around for my missions is the Sphere Builders. I'm leaning towards making them antagonistic toward the Iconians though, since they are big on time travel.

thay8472

starswordc wrote: »

@thay: My personal feeling is that after the events of "Dragon's Deceit" through "Takedown", the Vaadwaur are more likely to be the Iconians' enemies as much as the Alliance is, rather than in the "servitor" column. The fact that Gaul had to have his generals infested with bluegills to ensure their loyalty suggests they wouldn't have willingly gone along with the plan.

Whether out of decency or pride is another question entirely, but either way, I doubt they're still Iconian-aligned and I think there's a good opportunity there for the Alliance to turn them into allies.

But add the bluegills to that list.

Added.

I suppose Eldix (sp?) could be "bugged" ? He may of been since we first saw him. but yeah... They could go either way with the Vaadwaur.

That being said. If you've been on one of the Vaadwaur ship bridges. They have Herald/Iconian tech in the back (objects that defy gravity.)

novapolaris

Something else I'd like to know about is what should I do if some of my mission stories (or storylines) don't all directly involve the known servants of the Iconians, or Iconians themselves, but still tie into the war? Do ALL the missions have to always include the servitor species directly?

For example, sabotage to a prototype being made by one of the resistance factions, which was done by an Iconian spy/mole like Taris was to the Romulans.

Another thing I'm wondering about is what if some of the stories or storylines involve new servitor species, groups, or individuals introduced in them, and events surrounding what happens with them?

patchm142

Since we're talking about Iconian strategies that make no sense, let's also take a look at Undine strategies that make no sense.

... why would they need a second planet killer? The big one that appears at the end of Surface Tension is huge, and it takes far too long to activate - as opposed to a handful of their ships, which have always done the job just fine.

I don't get it.

drogyn1701

My thought is that the so-called "planet killer" (which is our name for it, not the Undine's) must do something else than reduce a planet to rubble like the other multi-ship weapon does. Otherwise yeah they'd just use a bunch of the little ships. We've never actually seen what a planet killer does when unleashed. Maybe, and i'm just speculating here, it does something like convert the raw materials of a planet into fluidic space.

markhawkman

The most plausible theory I've heard is that the Undine made them as a way to have a more heavily armored planet buster. Except for their fore shield they're near invulnerable... the smaller ships aren't, and in 2410 Bioships aren't as dangerous to Feds as they used to be. Thus the Undine had reason to try making a more durable planet buster.

Yeah they still get blown up... but it's harder to blow them up than a handful of bioships.

themetalstickman

markhawkman wrote: »

The most plausible theory I've heard is that the Undine made them as a way to have a more heavily armored planet buster. Except for their fore shield they're near invulnerable... the smaller ships aren't, and in 2410 Bioships aren't as dangerous to Feds as they used to be. Thus the Undine had reason to try making a more durable planet buster.

Yeah they still get blown up... but it's harder to blow them up than a handful of bioships.

That sounds about right. I guess the Undine figured that we wouldn't want to exploit the fore shield opening because that's where the big gun is. A sufficiently advanced ship can easily handle Nicor and Dactylus bioships, but it takes multiple ships pounding away at those Oceanus planet killers to take them out.