Radiant Antiproton vs normal antiproton.

dave18193

So dudes, whats the consensus - how does radiant antiproton measure up against normal antirproton weapons? (for space)

In addition, whats the deal with the new 3 pc set? Does the new quantum torp rival the neutronic? Would you say the other parts and set bonuses are worth it? I cant find any info on them.

duncanidaho11

I haven't yet used the boxed radiant antiproton space weapons but I have used 2/3 from the weapon set (torp+console).

And...the rep torp not that powerful. But I think that's the point of these weapons. You're sacrificing some DPS (in the case of the radiant weapons, extra CrtD versus normal antiproton) for more health (through healing or the set buffs). It helps sustained combat or tanking builds while falling outside the use of your typical min-maxer.

Good if you apprecaite more aspects of STO than how high your floating yellow numbers can get, but I can see how its probably not to everyone's tastes (besides that they look cool).

warpangel

Well...you can get them for free in the rep boxes so they're at least worth their price.

warmaker001b

Temporary HP, even with the full stack of 5 for 5k HP isn't much, IMO. Rather have another more useful mod than the Radiant temporary HP proc.

The Advanced Radiant Quantum thing, judging from the stats shown, is a big disappointment. Neutronic Torpedo is leagues higher in base damage. Adv Radiant though has almost twice the Radiation dmg. However, it is heavily restricted by being able to affect 2 targets with Radiation. On top of that, it's a 33% chance to occur. It's a very limited weapon affected by RNG.

In contrast, the Neutronic Quantum Torpedo has a long CD (14 or so seconds base, not sure what reload is on Adv Radiant Quantum) but very high base damage and respectable Radiation damage. The Radiation attack has several effects happening at the same time, not just damage. In addition, it's guaranteed to occur and the Radiation affects any who are within range. Neutronic is a far more "sure thing" and is even better when fired into massed NPCs.

If the Advanced Radiant Quantum's Radiation proc was guaranteed to occur, then it may *possibly* have a leg to stand on.

taylor1701d

They don't intrest me at all.
I'd rather have plain old CrtD APs.

At least your not relying on a low % proc chance with classic AP beams.

I'm happy with what I've got. I'd rather have the severity bonus applied to all crits, then a small percentage chance from the radients.

duncanidaho11

warmaker001b wrote: »

If the Advanced Radiant Quantum's Radiation proc was guaranteed to occur, then it may *possibly* have a leg to stand on.

It looks quite a lot better when you pair it with the console (since neither of these is worth using independently.).

2/3 Neutronic

+Power (small)
+Radiation Damage
-Boff CD (small)
-Neutronic CD (makes it usable)

2/3 Adv Radiant

+HP
+HP/SP regen
+All Damage
+Adv Rad proc (not significant but it doesn't hurt)

The Adv Radiant torpedo is a compromise on torpedo damage but it makes up for it with a support proc and stronger, more useful secondary buffs. Neutronic is the better choice still with torpedo centric builds but if your torp is just there to compensate for DHC's damage reduction to hull points then Adv Radiant is probably the way to go.

tom61sto

From my testing on Tribble:

The Radiant AP weapons are by far the tankiest weapons in the game, the over-HP procs (temp HP similar to Attack Pattern Expertise) come fast and often with 7 beams. Enough that in Normal content you'll likely leave without your normal HP even have been touched. So long as your weapons are firing (which might be an issue in Gateway to Grethor and other Herald content) you will be able to take quite a bit more damage than you would otherwise be in the respawn queue for. Firepower-wise, the Mk XII [CrtD]x2 [Dmg] the dispenser gave out were quite capable, even with just a single Dyson Tac console buffing the damage on my TSABC (Romulan, so lots of innate critting). I expect that top-end damage builds will use only the Advanced Beam for it's +Haste proc, but Radiant AP seems pretty nice for any other build, especially with the two-set. There was a dev comment that seemed to indicate that these can't come out with [Crtd]x3, so another knock for high-DPS-at-all-costs builds.

The torp is the worst of all the Rep torps, both on it's own and with the set bonus. I'd skip it and pick up the Advanced Beam or DHC later on for the two-set.

The three-set bonus of the Deflector/Engine/Core/Shields seems to actually come out ahead of Nukara two-set in solo content, and can get insane with stacking damage buffs being team-wide. The shield is the real stand-out single piece with being able to clear off debuffs. Very disappointing that the the shields, which would help most with Herald content, are locked behind T5 of the Iconian Rep.

inhumanekitten

I got a Radiant AP array with CrtDx3, so there doesn't seem to be a dps loss by choosing radiant over normal AP. You just have to wait a long time and do a ton of hourly rep projects.

psych2l

inhumanekitten wrote: »

I got a Radiant AP array with CrtDx3, so there doesn't seem to be a dps loss by choosing radiant over normal AP. You just have to wait a long time and do a ton of hourly rep projects.

technically a normal ap has more crtD than it's radient counterpart. Also there are no pen varients sadly so one could not take advantage of the injury mechanic.

tom61sto

inhumanekitten wrote: »

I got a Radiant AP array with CrtDx3, so there doesn't seem to be a dps loss by choosing radiant over normal AP. You just have to wait a long time and do a ton of hourly rep projects.

Oh, very nice. You'd only loose a tiny bit of damage then compared normal AP at Very Rare then(10 vs. 20 innate CrtD), but with anything needing durability it might come out ahead in DPS by keeping you out of the respawn queue where you don't deal any DPS. I'm expecting more videos on soloing Hive Space Advanced once these start circulating in more quantities (T4 unlocks the space weapons to buy with Dilithium).

Have you upgraded any to Ultra-Rare? I'm expecting random mods for UR, but it would be interesting if they had fixed mods instead.

Edit: Actually found the thread back, it seems that the only way to get [CrtD]x3 Very Rare RadAP weapons is to spam the hourlies (and the dailies for as long as those last).

crypticrock wrote: »

Radiant AP offers a balance of offense (+10 Crit Severity) and defense (Temp HP proc). Like other reputation-purchased energy types, they can't be obtained with all mod combinations, such as [CritD]x3.

If you're looking for pure damage, standard AP weapons will still outperform Radiant AP due to the extra 10 Critical Severity.

And the clarification:

crypticrock wrote: »

I apologize for the confusion. I was referring to purchasing the weapons from the Reputation store. They follow the same combination of mods as the Thoron Infused Polaron weapons ([acc]X2 [dmg], [acc]x2[crtH], etc.) The rep xp boxes function normally.

yocase009

Hey guys,

How do you actually acquire the Advanced Radiant Antiproton Beam Array? Is it through the Iconian Rep (doesn't appear in the tree) or through something else?

I second the torpedo. Just spent 500 marks + for it today and I'm not thrilled. That being said, if I wanted a torpedo to put on my Tac Oddy with all beams otherwise what's the choice? I don't want a slow moving one, something quick and something that does not require zen for me to purchase (I'm looking at you wide-angle quantum torpedo launcher...).

Thanks guys (and gals, as we have officially discovered that girls DO INDEED play STO)!:eek:

jbmaverick

The Advanced Radiant energy weapons are locked behind Tier 4 of the reputation and acquired in the same way as the corresponding torp and console.

yocase009

Wow, I was looking in the equipment projects and not in the store unlocks...

Wow.

macafella

I have combined both regular antiproton and the iconian radiant brand. The critical damage bonuses really make a difference. I received under the reputation option a critical *70 on both torpedo and beam. Adding these radiant to my regular antiproton arsenal has shown a huge increase on my usual kill ratio in all combat scenarios. Defiantly do some upgrades to enhance your ships weapons out put. I love my T5U assault cruiser fleet mod. It is become my favorite due to the DPS and crit dmg bonus stacks up to x3.

Apples to apples radiant antiproton and regular antiproton come down to critical bonus and damage and of course STACKING your attack values!

pottsey5g

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

It looks quite a lot better when you pair it with the console (since neither of these is worth using independently.).

2/3 Neutronic

+Power (small)
+Radiation Damage
-Boff CD (small)
-Neutronic CD (makes it usable)

2/3 Adv Radiant

+HP
+HP/SP regen
+All Damage
+Adv Rad proc (not significant but it doesn't hurt)

The Adv Radiant torpedo is a compromise on torpedo damage but it makes up for it with a support proc and stronger, more useful secondary buffs. Neutronic is the better choice still with torpedo centric builds but if your torp is just there to compensate for DHC's damage reduction to hull points then Adv Radiant is probably the way to go.

You missed the bit on how the adv Radiant does under half the damage of normal torpedo's with torpedo spread and on average does less damage per basic shot even with the rad proc. That's half the damage of normal torpedo not the Neutronic. I don't see how the support proc and secondary buffs anywhere near makes up for the tiny damage output. The Adv Radiant torpedo is pretty much useless. Its effectively broken its that bad.

EDIT: Or to put it another way I think a MK I torpedo with torpdeo spread looks to out damages a max level adv Radiant torpedo. Its that bad. As for "+Adv Rad proc (not significant but it doesn't hurt)" it does hurt in a way as its less damage on average then normal torpedo's. The bonus HP you gain is so low and such a small proc chance its next to useless.

jbmaverick

The torpedo got a damage buff with today's patch if I'm reading the patch notes correctly, probably still not top-tier damage but maybe it's more competitive now?

Small increase to damage magnitude for Arcing Radiant Quantum Torpedo.
Includes normal fire mode as well as emission-seeking, high yield, spread, and transported torpedo.

pottsey5g

jbmaverick wrote: »

The torpedo got a damage buff with today's patch if I'm reading the patch notes correctly, probably still not top-tier damage but maybe it's more competitive now?

I missed that but I don't see how a small damage increase will make up for it doing under half the damage of other torpedo's. It needed its damage doubling just to get near normal torpedo's with torp spread 3.

freakium

The small damage increase is to put it on par with the other Iconian Rep box torpedoes. Originally, its damage was less than these. I find that now it is at least useable. This torpedo is meant for firing into crowds so that that its proc can arc to other targets. I find it's generally ok now. When there's a crowd to shoot into, fire a torp spread and spread some radiation. If you're on your lonesome, fire away normally and if you gain health for it, all the more sweeter.

theraven2378

Using the 3 piece radiant set atm, the extra hit points are nice and ap overcharge ability you get with all 3 parts is powerful depending on enemy hull hit points.

When it crits, it can crit hard

sovereign010

I just got my KDF Tac up to T5 on the Iconian Rep with an all-antiproton loadout and I'm wondering which items are worth replacing on my Fleet Mat'ha

For the console I'll have to swap out either my Enhanced Induction Coils (more likely), or my Hvy Disruptor spinal cannons (seemingly less useful on an all-ap build).

For my weapons it's a more difficult choice- up front I have 2 beam arrays, one with CrtDx3 and the other with Crtdx3 Pen. I have 2 DHCs with the exact same modifiers as the beams, and a DBB with CrtDx2 CrtH Pen. Based on these modifiers, am I better off swapping the DBB for either of the Adv Radiant set, based on the disparity in Crit Severity?

Aft I have the Omni AP beam (for the 2-pc obelisk bonus) and the Crystalline Torpedo, is the Adv. Radiant Q-torp an improvement on the Crystalline one? It's been decidedly meh in performance when firing.

pottsey5g

freakium wrote: »

The small damage increase is to put it on par with the other Iconian Rep box torpedoes. Originally, its damage was less than these. I find that now it is at least useable. This torpedo is meant for firing into crowds so that that its proc can arc to other targets. I find it's generally ok now. When there's a crowd to shoot into, fire a torp spread and spread some radiation. If you're on your lonesome, fire away normally and if you gain health for it, all the more sweeter.

Unless I missed a fix its doing half the damage of the other Iconian Rep box torpedoes with torpedo spread. Boosting the damage from under half to half is not what I what I would call on par. Untill the 50% damage nerf is fixed its a rubbish torpedo.

shadowwraith77

inhumanekitten wrote: »

I got a Radiant AP array with CrtDx3, so there doesn't seem to be a dps loss by choosing radiant over normal AP. You just have to wait a long time and do a ton of hourly rep projects.

Wouldn't a radiant AP weapon, have the possibility of obtaining the [pen] mod, when it upgrades to UR?

jbmaverick

shadowwraith77 wrote: »

Wouldn't a radiant AP weapon, have the possibility of obtaining the [pen] mod, when it upgrades to UR?

I believe it was determined that this is not possible. [Pen] and similar mods are only available via the crafting system and only when the item is initially crafted. Upgrades cannot access it.

pottsey5g wrote: »

Unless I missed a fix its doing half the damage of the other Iconian Rep box torpedoes with torpedo spread. Boosting the damage from under half to half is not what I what I would call on par. Untill the 50% damage nerf is fixed its a rubbish torpedo.

I quoted the patch note specifically, to which you even responded. The Advanced Radiant torp has been upgraded so it has the same base damage as the other Radiant torps. It's still not going to be as good as the Neutronic or Gravimetric, but that's not the purpose of this torpedo anyway. Radiant weapons are pretty clearly more defensively inclined than standard weapons.

pottsey5g

jbmaverick wrote: »

I quoted the patch note specifically, to which you even responded. The Advanced Radiant torp has been upgraded so it has the same base damage as the other Radiant torps. It's still not going to be as good as the Neutronic or Gravimetric, but that's not the purpose of this torpedo anyway. Radiant weapons are pretty clearly more defensively inclined than standard weapons.

As I said before its not even as good as a normal torpedo's. Its half the damage of a normal torpedo with torpedo spread. I am not comparing it to the Neutronic or Gravimetric. I am comparing it to basic torpedo's.

Advanced Radiant torpedo do 5418 damage x2 for 10,836 total damage per target.
Normal Radiant torpedo's do 5418 damage x4 for 21,672 total damage per target.
Normal Q torpedoes do 5418 damage x4 for 21,672 total damage per target.

So Normal Q torpedoes 21,672 for 1 target or 108,360 for 5 targets for normal torpedoes
Advanced Radiant 10,836 for 1 target or 54,180 for 5 targets for Advanced torpedoes

With the patch changes the Advanced Radiant torpedo does half the damage of a normal torpedo. Before the patch it was worse than half. Like I said before a useless torpedo. The tiny radiation damage doesn’t make up for the massive damage loss.

As for the defense bonus it’s also useless. Half of 1 beam shot destroys the bonus. The bonus hit points are tiny and are at 0% resistance. Why would someone takes half damage to get a bonus hitpoint that barely lasts 1 seconds or half of 1 hit?

I don't think many players realized just how bad the torpedo was before the patch. Its still rubbish now but before the patch is was well below half damage.

warmaker001b

jbmaverick wrote: »

I believe it was determined that this is not possible. [Pen] and similar mods are only available via the crafting system and only when the item is initially crafted. Upgrades cannot access it.

Slight addition to that rule since a patch or two ago.

You can get some of those Crafting Mods on regular item drops or rewards. For example, I got from a 1st place CCA reward a regular Disruptor DHC Mk XII CrtDx2, Pen mod on it.

Reputation items, standard or project items, do not get those Crafting Mods at all.

dave18193

The torp does look dire. Not gonna waste time on it until a real fix happens.

The beams though look very nice IMO. Is there some limit as to how often they can do their temp HP proc?

I only ask as Im thinking of doing a mixed build. Im trying to figure out the optimum number of CrtDx2 Radiant AP beams, with the rest being normal AP [CrtD]x3.

That way it offers the best mix of tanking (via Radiant) while still having as many normal AP's as I can. The advanced radiant beam seems a no brainer since it has that nifty haste proc.

On an unrelated note, have they fixed the console yet?

shadowwraith77

dave18193 wrote: »

The torp does look dire. Not gonna waste time on it until a real fix happens.

The beams though look very nice IMO. Is there some limit as to how often they can do their temp HP proc?

I only ask as Im thinking of doing a mixed build. Im trying to figure out the optimum number of CrtDx2 Radiant AP beams, with the rest being normal AP [CrtD]x3.

That way it offers the best mix of tanking (via Radiant) while still having as many normal AP's as I can. The advanced radiant beam seems a no brainer since it has that nifty haste proc.

On an unrelated note, have they fixed the console yet?

I haven't had any problems with the console, it does what it says for me!

silverskyhigh2

So in a nutshell, your standard AP is better damage wise but for tanking your best bet is Radiant AP.

I would love to see them make it so you can craft hybrid type weapons so you can make a CrtD x3 for Radiant and other hybrids.

NOTE: I know they will never make it so you can craft hybrid weapons but one can only dream. lol

dave18193

Id love to know what the optimal mix is - how many radiants would I need to use to have the full effect of the temp hp. My guess is the advanced radiant beam, and maybe one or two more radiant beams would keep the proc up. Then the remaining beams can be normal AP for max DPS.

Id love to know what you guys experience is on this