I snipped your wall of text because it had not focused on and explained how this powercreep can go on for ever while at the same time ppl have (according to you) trouble going beyond 4K DPS.
100,000 DPS
1) Change to averaging 50 Weapon Power instead of 125 Weapon Power.
100000 / 2.5 = 40000
40000 * 1.0 = 40000
2) Change from <5km to <10km w/ Beams.
40000 / 0.84 = 47619
47619 * 0.64 = 30476
3) Change from ~90% engagement to ~25% engagement.
30476 / 0.9 = 33862
33862 * 0.25 = 8465
4) Change from ~90% ability efficiency to ~25% ability efficiency.
8465 / 0.9 = 9405
9405 * 0.25 = 2351
From 100,000 DPS to 2,351 DPS without changing a piece of gear.
If buying/upgrading gear was all that was needed, then everybody would be doing 100-120k+ DPS.
It's a skill/ability/knowledge/talent/etc difference.
It's why Cryptic can continue to dump things out...because the intended audience isn't that group of folks that are 75k+ - the folks doing 50k+ - the folks doing 30k+ - the folks doing 20k+...there's no content that requires any of that.
But hit up an ISA and take note of how some folks are flying, eh? Right from the start, yeah? They're engaging out at 10km on the far side of where the next target or next engagement is. So they've got all sorts of dead time...all that 0 DPS gets averaged in.
You have 1-2 folks that are over at the Left Trans, while the other folks are somewhere between the middle of the Gateway or even over to the right of it. Not because they're going right, but because that's where they ended up. So those 1-2 folks engage the Cube. Not because the Cube needs to be destroyed before the Gens, but it's something to do while waiting on those other folks to get over there.
And when those folks get over there, they inevitably end up going to the left of the Trans and engage at 10km out again. So after the Trans drops, the Nanites are over by the Gateway - those folks are engaging the Spheres from the Trans from 10km out. Here's a pseudo doodle.
Players <--10km---> Sphere <--10-20km--> Other Players & Nanites
Which leads to those 1-2 players being over at the Right Trans firing at the Cube while waiting on the other players to make that trip over to the Gateway, past the Gateway, and over to the Trans again. Where once again, they end up going far right...as the next set of Nanites are engaged.
And you see the same thing as they move to engage the Tac Cube and Gateway...that tendency to place themselves around 10km out on the far side of one as far as possible away from the other as they can get.
All that travel time is 0 DPS averaged into whatever else they could have been doing were they actively engaged with targets at closer than that 10km out.
Say you've got a weapon that hits for 1000 damage every second (it's a fictional weapon for this example and we're ignoring the range penalty, etc, etc, etc).
You fire that weapon once for one second. 1000 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for two seconds. 500 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for three seconds. 333 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for four seconds. 250 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for five seconds. 200 DPS.
5 seconds of firing and 10 seconds of flying to the next target?
(1000 * 5) / 15 = 333 DPS
10 seconds of firing and 5 seconds of flying to the next target?
(1000 * 10) / 15 = 667 DPS
Let's say we had 8 weapons doing that 1000, eh?
333 * 8 = 2664
667 * 8 = 5336
Make it 4000 damage instead of 1000?
2664 * 4 = 10656
5336 * 4 = 21344
The % difference won't change, but the value of that difference will continue to grow.
What if we take that 4000 w/ 8 weapons and make it 3 seconds up 12 seconds down vs 13 seconds up 2 seconds down?
All that dead time because of how they're pathing the run...all of that's averaged into their DPS.
And then go back in to work out the other differences, weapon power, range, how they're buffing/debuffing, if they're dying, and all the rest...
...noting that none of it involved any different gear.
But let's take our player from earlier and walk through some of that, eh?
Our guy averaging 50 Weapon Power, from <10km out, with 25% engagement, and 25% efficiency...yeah? Let's have him doing 2500 DPS.
Say he drops out oodles to upgrade for 200% DPS, so now he's doing 5000 DPS.
If he'd instead worked on averaging 100 Weapon Power alone - he would have gotten the same increase. On top of that, if he'd done the same upgrades after doing that he'd be at 10000 DPS.
The difference between those guys rocking DPS and those not...isn't gearing. Sure, the gear will keep on increasing that gap...yep, there will be folks doing 200k+ one day while folks in the same gear are still doing under 4k.
And with those folks being the intended audience...just like we've been getting more and more over the years, we'll keep getting more and more over the years...and yeah, PvP will keep dying and the DPS folks will keep doing more and more ludicrous damage compared to what any content requires.
I think you misunderstand my point. The people who want a complex challenge will PvP - as they understand that an AI is not a real challenging foe. For those people adding more HPs and Damage to a foe is not enough.
PvP players love to brag about their skill, it's lie to themselves and others. I spent enough time in real PvP games to know that their touted mastery isn't all its cracked up to be. It's generally just better gear, better builds, or simply (and most commonly) superior numbers.
Nothing is more boring. There is no game on the market that is realistic enough to emulate good PvP. At best it's just elements, a crippled and tunnel vision window.
If you want real PvP, go play tennis, football, chess or poker. If you just want to a play a video game, do it- but don't brag about it.
PvP players love to brag about their skill, it's lie to themselves and others. I spent enough time in real PvP games to know that their touted mastery isn't all its cracked up to be. It's generally just better gear, better builds, or simply (and most commonly) superior numbers.
Nothing is more boring. There is no game on the market that is realistic enough to emulate good PvP. At best it's just elements, a crippled and tunnel vision window.
If you want real PvP, go play tennis, football, chess or poker. If you just want to a play a video game, do it- but don't brag about it.
ahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaahahahahhahaha.
There are two kind of newcomers in PvP.
Those who try and ask for suggestions.
Failcaptains with failships who blame others for their lack of skills.
That was a brilliant/excellent breakdown of the situation, I hope the guy you're replying to has the mental capacity to keep up.
Heh, the TLDR would be...
Cryptic looks at X when they add things...doesn't matter if players are doing Y or Z. X is the intended audience for the game. It's where they're looking. They've said that, no? STO's not a game for gamers...it's a game for Star Trek fans. Course, that gets into all sorts of other issues. :P
Cryptic looks at X when they add things...doesn't matter if players are doing Y or Z. X is the intended audience for the game. It's where they're looking. They've said that, no? STO's not a game for gamers...it's a game for Star Trek fans. Course, that gets into all sorts of other issues. :P
Correction, It's a game for a certain type of Star Trek fan. And just enough for the others than they'd don't walk away. An important difference.
To be honest, to expect anything else is rather foolish.
Failcaptains with failships who blame others for their lack of skills.
Guess what.
A more disconnected reply to my post is difficult to imagine. Try adding terms like 'bananas" and "kittens" to reach even more irrelevant levels.
Myself, I'd have more respect for 'serious' PvP players if they weren't so easy to beat or if they didn't spend their time talking about how awesome they think they are.
Don't remind me. I've been angry at times due to Cryptic's unwillingness to implement challenging and meaningful queues (elite DPS zerging is not meaningful to me, subjective I know). At least create a serious difficulty mode so that hardcore players can eat their cake too. BTW, imo, that's a strange notion to assume Star trek fans are not gamers. Since when are nerds afraid of gaming???
There's gaming and there's GAMING.
See that five year vet over there who hasn't reached 15 spec points yet? That's gaming.
See that two month player over there who's maxed his spec points? That's GAMING.
Sometime in the lifespan of an MMO, the later push the former out of the game. It's the natural cycle of things.
It was stupid to go from 50 to 60. They should have gone 55 and allow up to XIII. Then just raise the level cap every year till 100 in single gear level increments...
I could be wrong of course, but I'm 70% positive CBS is the one interfering and forbidding Cryptic to do any of this.
That line just made you sound stupid.
LOL, you obviously don't know much about TV executives.... You think any of them have ever played an MMO or have any concept what a Tier 1 or Tier 4 ship are? LOLOLOLOL
Cryptic looks at X when they add things...doesn't matter if players are doing Y or Z. X is the intended audience for the game. It's where they're looking. They've said that, no? STO's not a game for gamers...it's a game for Star Trek fans. Course, that gets into all sorts of other issues. :P
Oh, so you think the designers do in fact give all the various Star Trek fans exactly what they want (so where is my T5 connie, I need to pick it up)?
Or do you just have that thin of a ego that you can't stand being told that you're even a little bit off base now and then?
So you're first reply...you offered a correction that wasn't needed, but you felt the need to include your opinion and to call anybody that disagreed with your opinion foolish.
And you're second reply...had nothing to do with the reply to your first reply and only reinforced that you didn't read the initial post while also offering yet another insult.
Can go back and look at your replies to riccardo to see more of the same...you should go hook up with Dental, they'd turn you into at least a passable troll.
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
Step away from his comments for a moment, then come back...you'll see the pattern there. The butthurt wee kiddie doing the internet tough guy routine. It's kind of cliche in this day and age.
PvP players love to brag about their skill, it's lie to themselves and others. I spent enough time in real PvP games to know that their touted mastery isn't all its cracked up to be. It's generally just better gear, better builds, or simply (and most commonly) superior numbers.
You must play some crappy games. The best PVP games have gear that is mostly equal or use abilities that are so different they are not directly comparable, so that there are no large gear advantages. You learn how to control your attacks, how to counter stuff and nullify the enemy's attacks, then play your attack while he is weak. That is how skill based PVP works.
STO PVP is indeed very item-oriented, but back when everybody had access to the same basic level of gear it was at least potentially balanced because anybody that wanted to could get the necessary gear pretty easily--once you realized that you needed (eg) fleet resb sheilds, you got that item, and then it became a contest of skill. Exceptions certainly did exist with things like lockbox greed ships, and FAW Scimitards using Valdore console and frigate pets spamming Scramble Sensors, but with enough practice and skill you could fly crappy ships and beat the P2W abusers. That is why we had trouble growing the community--the newbies had not done the grinding needed to reach level parity. Item-based PVP sucks. Its a crutch for bad designers.
Nowadays it is 100% item based and pointless for everybody except the whales. Which is why nobody does it.
Yes it's sustainable. Delta rising proved that. You can keep releasing new and more powerful bs and when it gets to a point that's ridiculous you just add more hit points to the enemies and call it a day.
Yes it's sustainable. Delta rising proved that. You can keep releasing new and more powerful bs and when it gets to a point that's ridiculous you just add more hit points to the enemies and call it a day.
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
It was rather clear. I'll try again.
Hardcore gamers play the game a lot, they quickly master new content and grind out any new rewards- in a faction of the time most of the player base does. They then demand new rewards and more difficult content. They want the power returned from the rewards to match their perceived effort.
Most gamers however don't do that. They play the game and get their stuff when they get their stuff. They view the game as fun and relaxing and tend to ask for cosmetic rewards instead of ones that increase their power. They want more role-play options and involved storylines.
Without exception (unless the game company denies the goals of the first group)- the second group will be driven away. The Hardcore look down on them and insults them. The power creep required to keep the Hardcore happy becomes unmanageable for the second group and entire sections of the game become off limits to them.
This isn't necessary bad for the game company, depending upon where their income comes from. The Hardcore do tend to drop hard currency. This may in fact be the market they shoot for.
This happens to all MMOs, and eventually the non-Hardcore leave.
So given this, what is the natural outcome for STO?
It was Delta Rising. It was the upgrade system. It's spec points.
And it will continue. To answer the OP, yes Power Creep can be sustained. It's actually easy to do, and profitable to do.
A more disconnected reply to my post is difficult to imagine. Try adding terms like 'bananas" and "kittens" to reach even more irrelevant levels.
Myself, I'd have more respect for 'serious' PvP players if they weren't so easy to beat or if they didn't spend their time talking about how awesome they think they are.
And I'd have more respect for PvErs if they'd stop appointing PvPers every kind of derogatory behaviors. Do you pretend to be entitled to judge when all you can do in PvP is exploding? Even worse you didn't even try to ask those pesky PvPers suggestions on how to improve.
A week ago a guy whispered me in game and asked me help on how to build a PvP ship. I didn't even know him or met before. Guess what, he simply found my handle in game in the PvP forums and when he saw me online in OPVP simply asked for help. Yes all he did until then was PvE, but do you think I had reserves on helping him out?
I gave him all the help he needed, tested his ship, told him about his weak points, a bit of strategy. He thanked me and returned to the drawing board to improve his skills and build.
Every other PvPer I know would do, and did, that.
While you... you're just posting senseless bs about a part of the community that gives zero importance of what you think about them.
Now return to the fog that generated you and stay there.
A week ago a guy whispered me in game and asked me help on how to build a PvP ship. I didn't even know him or met before. Guess what, he simply found my handle in game in the PvP forums and when he saw me online in OPVP simply asked for help. Yes all he did until then was PvE, but do you think I had reserves on helping him out?
I gave him all the help he needed, tested his ship, told him about his weak points, a bit of strategy. He thanked me and returned to the drawing board to improve his skills and build.
While some PvPers like to hide their builds, the vast majority (myself included) are more than happy to share them.
Why?
Simple; an enemy that knows what they're doing offers a lot more resistance than someone that doesn't even know how to balance their shields properly. That's what makes PvP a whole lot more fun than PvE. It's always changing, never the same encounter twice. It makes you think on your feet and provides a fun challenge. Educated players are more than fun clueless meatbags - whether that's NPCs or players that want to fight, but simply lack the requisite background knowledge.
Yes it's sustainable. Delta rising proved that. You can keep releasing new and more powerful bs and when it gets to a point that's ridiculous you just add more hit points to the enemies and call it a day.
I'm genuinely curious; did the offer any sort of reason as to why they increased NPC HP or even a heads up that it was happening? Or did people suddenly discover one day that NPCs had millions of HP?
DR happened during a period where I was away with the game, so I missed all of the build up and initial drama.
After we fight the Iconians, the Big Bads who have seemingly been behind everything that's happened, all part of their master plan, then what?
Who could be the next Big Bad that's as threatening?
Will we run into a Stargate SG-1 situation, where after increasingly more powerful enemies, you end up fighting (and defeating, magically) literal Gods themselves?
You lost the privilege to be treated with respect when you started using the term "carebear".
Change your ways,dont use that expression again and you might be getting that respect you speak of...not by me of course but maybe someone else who doesnt see you the way the way i do.
Being called a carebear isn't necessarily an insult, it just reflects your values for the game. Do RPers get insulted when you refer to them or the game as Space Barbie? Do DPSers cry foul every time someone says they're just chasing pointless goals?
I'm genuinely curious; did the offer any sort of reason as to why they increased NPC HP or even a heads up that it was happening? Or did people suddenly discover one day that NPCs had millions of HP?
DR happened during a period where I was away with the game, so I missed all of the build up and initial drama.
It was on Tribble for a bit before hitting Holodeck, since it was an expansion rather than just a season - even the DPS folks posted warnings about it...but within two weeks it was nerfed into the ground - yet folks continue to go on about it as if it is even worse than it was at there with the launch.
For those two weeks, it was around 3-4x the content requirement it had been...but then it was just about 40% more than it was...keeping in mind the difference in the content requirement vs. potential, where they pretty much kept the 18:1 ratio going...kind of, depends on the content - leans closer to a 20:1 ratio in many cases.
Basically though, the average players were stomping content...Cryptic couldn't actually make things harder, but by tossing some extra health at the mobs they could slow things down to try to fix the reward/time thing they've got going.
They still haven't added in all the Elite content to go with the split they did...and Hell, they even took out NWS.
Some folks like to point to the changes being made for the DPS folks...but uh, yeah...hrmm...
Top Five ISE pre-DR
1) 89102
2) 82900
3) 77915
4) 73456
5) 67059
1) 1:57
2) 1:59
3) 2:01
4) 2:02
5) 2:03
Top Five ISA (current)
1) 120173
2) 113223
3) 104141
4) 97038
5) 92347
1) 0:55
2) 0:58
3) 1:00
4) 1:03
5) 1:04
/cough
Yeah...lol...not.
It was just what the average players were doing...simple as that, imho. Folks massively below what those average players do (say folks that might show up for a HSA doing 556 DPS or for ISA doing 1947 DPS for example)...want to blame the DPS folks for it. But it's just all the folks that were doing their 4-6k DPS that were making a mockery of Cryptic's content, imho.
While some PvPers like to hide their builds, the vast majority (myself included) are more than happy to share them.
Why?
Simple; an enemy that knows what they're doing offers a lot more resistance than someone that doesn't even know how to balance their shields properly. That's what makes PvP a whole lot more fun than PvE. It's always changing, never the same encounter twice. It makes you think on your feet and provides a fun challenge. Educated players are more than fun clueless meatbags - whether that's NPCs or players that want to fight, but simply lack the requisite background knowledge.
I'm genuinely curious; did the offer any sort of reason as to why they increased NPC HP or even a heads up that it was happening? Or did people suddenly discover one day that NPCs had millions of HP?
DR happened during a period where I was away with the game, so I missed all of the build up and initial drama.
I used to hide my builds, after DR though I decided to share them if needed just in case someone wanted to get closer to our own environment. The real issue with PvP builds is that carbon copying them is never a good idea, because the user had tailored it to suit his needs. That's why I always encourage to mix and match on their own. Running a copy if my ship makes you an "eternal second" because you'd never be able to use it as good as I do. But ship building is a skill you acquire with time, until you get to the point where you can build on your own.
You lost the privilege to be treated with respect when you started using the term "carebear".
Change your ways,dont use that expression again and you might be getting that respect you speak of...not by me of course but maybe someone else who doesnt see you the way the way i do.
And you never had the privilege to be treated with respect. That makes things equal. If you get offended so easily on the Web just shut it down. There are 7 billion people on this planet and you think I could possibly care of your feelings?
You are completely right,pvp'ers have never treated me with respect...see atleast we can agree on something.
Try to do something that makes you earn that respect. As long as you're acid with every PvPer you meet, you're in for an acid rain.
Lol I don't have any issues with people who play PvE. I dislike those who pretend to be superior to PvPers, insult and entitle themselves as glorious veterans. And carebears as well.
You think PvP community is all nice and dandy? Lol no there was a complete idiot months ago who did not even deserve to be called human, who was insulting a Polish PvPer about TRIBBLE concentration camps... Can'f even start to explain it for how disgusting it was.
You're just over reacting in a way that makes me smile.
Comments
100,000 DPS
1) Change to averaging 50 Weapon Power instead of 125 Weapon Power.
100000 / 2.5 = 40000
40000 * 1.0 = 40000
2) Change from <5km to <10km w/ Beams.
40000 / 0.84 = 47619
47619 * 0.64 = 30476
3) Change from ~90% engagement to ~25% engagement.
30476 / 0.9 = 33862
33862 * 0.25 = 8465
4) Change from ~90% ability efficiency to ~25% ability efficiency.
8465 / 0.9 = 9405
9405 * 0.25 = 2351
From 100,000 DPS to 2,351 DPS without changing a piece of gear.
If buying/upgrading gear was all that was needed, then everybody would be doing 100-120k+ DPS.
It's a skill/ability/knowledge/talent/etc difference.
It's why Cryptic can continue to dump things out...because the intended audience isn't that group of folks that are 75k+ - the folks doing 50k+ - the folks doing 30k+ - the folks doing 20k+...there's no content that requires any of that.
But hit up an ISA and take note of how some folks are flying, eh? Right from the start, yeah? They're engaging out at 10km on the far side of where the next target or next engagement is. So they've got all sorts of dead time...all that 0 DPS gets averaged in.
You have 1-2 folks that are over at the Left Trans, while the other folks are somewhere between the middle of the Gateway or even over to the right of it. Not because they're going right, but because that's where they ended up. So those 1-2 folks engage the Cube. Not because the Cube needs to be destroyed before the Gens, but it's something to do while waiting on those other folks to get over there.
And when those folks get over there, they inevitably end up going to the left of the Trans and engage at 10km out again. So after the Trans drops, the Nanites are over by the Gateway - those folks are engaging the Spheres from the Trans from 10km out. Here's a pseudo doodle.
Players <--10km---> Sphere <--10-20km--> Other Players & Nanites
Which leads to those 1-2 players being over at the Right Trans firing at the Cube while waiting on the other players to make that trip over to the Gateway, past the Gateway, and over to the Trans again. Where once again, they end up going far right...as the next set of Nanites are engaged.
And you see the same thing as they move to engage the Tac Cube and Gateway...that tendency to place themselves around 10km out on the far side of one as far as possible away from the other as they can get.
All that travel time is 0 DPS averaged into whatever else they could have been doing were they actively engaged with targets at closer than that 10km out.
Say you've got a weapon that hits for 1000 damage every second (it's a fictional weapon for this example and we're ignoring the range penalty, etc, etc, etc).
You fire that weapon once for one second. 1000 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for two seconds. 500 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for three seconds. 333 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for four seconds. 250 DPS.
You fire that weapon once for five seconds. 200 DPS.
5 seconds of firing and 10 seconds of flying to the next target?
(1000 * 5) / 15 = 333 DPS
10 seconds of firing and 5 seconds of flying to the next target?
(1000 * 10) / 15 = 667 DPS
Let's say we had 8 weapons doing that 1000, eh?
333 * 8 = 2664
667 * 8 = 5336
Make it 4000 damage instead of 1000?
2664 * 4 = 10656
5336 * 4 = 21344
The % difference won't change, but the value of that difference will continue to grow.
What if we take that 4000 w/ 8 weapons and make it 3 seconds up 12 seconds down vs 13 seconds up 2 seconds down?
(4000 * 8 * 3) / 15 = 6400
(4000 * 8 * 13) / 15 = 27733
All that dead time because of how they're pathing the run...all of that's averaged into their DPS.
And then go back in to work out the other differences, weapon power, range, how they're buffing/debuffing, if they're dying, and all the rest...
...noting that none of it involved any different gear.
But let's take our player from earlier and walk through some of that, eh?
Our guy averaging 50 Weapon Power, from <10km out, with 25% engagement, and 25% efficiency...yeah? Let's have him doing 2500 DPS.
Say he drops out oodles to upgrade for 200% DPS, so now he's doing 5000 DPS.
If he'd instead worked on averaging 100 Weapon Power alone - he would have gotten the same increase. On top of that, if he'd done the same upgrades after doing that he'd be at 10000 DPS.
The difference between those guys rocking DPS and those not...isn't gearing. Sure, the gear will keep on increasing that gap...yep, there will be folks doing 200k+ one day while folks in the same gear are still doing under 4k.
And with those folks being the intended audience...just like we've been getting more and more over the years, we'll keep getting more and more over the years...and yeah, PvP will keep dying and the DPS folks will keep doing more and more ludicrous damage compared to what any content requires.
PvP players love to brag about their skill, it's lie to themselves and others. I spent enough time in real PvP games to know that their touted mastery isn't all its cracked up to be. It's generally just better gear, better builds, or simply (and most commonly) superior numbers.
Nothing is more boring. There is no game on the market that is realistic enough to emulate good PvP. At best it's just elements, a crippled and tunnel vision window.
If you want real PvP, go play tennis, football, chess or poker. If you just want to a play a video game, do it- but don't brag about it.
ahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaahahahahhahaha.
There are two kind of newcomers in PvP.
Those who try and ask for suggestions.
Failcaptains with failships who blame others for their lack of skills.
Guess what.
Heh, the TLDR would be...
Cryptic looks at X when they add things...doesn't matter if players are doing Y or Z. X is the intended audience for the game. It's where they're looking. They've said that, no? STO's not a game for gamers...it's a game for Star Trek fans. Course, that gets into all sorts of other issues. :P
Correction, It's a game for a certain type of Star Trek fan. And just enough for the others than they'd don't walk away. An important difference.
To be honest, to expect anything else is rather foolish.
A more disconnected reply to my post is difficult to imagine. Try adding terms like 'bananas" and "kittens" to reach even more irrelevant levels.
Myself, I'd have more respect for 'serious' PvP players if they weren't so easy to beat or if they didn't spend their time talking about how awesome they think they are.
Correction not needed, since it was paraphrasing what was said. Your opinion on the matter is not a correction...it's just an opinion.
Oh, so you think the designers do in fact give all the various Star Trek fans exactly what they want (so where is my T5 connie, I need to pick it up)?
Or do you just have that thin of a ego that you can't stand being told that you're even a little bit off base now and then?
There's gaming and there's GAMING.
See that five year vet over there who hasn't reached 15 spec points yet? That's gaming.
See that two month player over there who's maxed his spec points? That's GAMING.
Sometime in the lifespan of an MMO, the later push the former out of the game. It's the natural cycle of things.
I really don't care who's the one who made the decision. It's only important that the decision was made.
The final result is, yes- it's a *very* limited version of Star Trek.
And no, I don't think anything else is practical at this point in MMO design. But I do hope that limit is removed some day.
LOL, you obviously don't know much about TV executives.... You think any of them have ever played an MMO or have any concept what a Tier 1 or Tier 4 ship are? LOLOLOLOL
So you're first reply...you offered a correction that wasn't needed, but you felt the need to include your opinion and to call anybody that disagreed with your opinion foolish.
And you're second reply...had nothing to do with the reply to your first reply and only reinforced that you didn't read the initial post while also offering yet another insult.
Can go back and look at your replies to riccardo to see more of the same...you should go hook up with Dental, they'd turn you into at least a passable troll.
Step away from his comments for a moment, then come back...you'll see the pattern there. The butthurt wee kiddie doing the internet tough guy routine. It's kind of cliche in this day and age.
STO PVP is indeed very item-oriented, but back when everybody had access to the same basic level of gear it was at least potentially balanced because anybody that wanted to could get the necessary gear pretty easily--once you realized that you needed (eg) fleet resb sheilds, you got that item, and then it became a contest of skill. Exceptions certainly did exist with things like lockbox greed ships, and FAW Scimitards using Valdore console and frigate pets spamming Scramble Sensors, but with enough practice and skill you could fly crappy ships and beat the P2W abusers. That is why we had trouble growing the community--the newbies had not done the grinding needed to reach level parity. Item-based PVP sucks. Its a crutch for bad designers.
Nowadays it is 100% item based and pointless for everybody except the whales. Which is why nobody does it.
Looks like we have a winner.
It was rather clear. I'll try again.
Hardcore gamers play the game a lot, they quickly master new content and grind out any new rewards- in a faction of the time most of the player base does. They then demand new rewards and more difficult content. They want the power returned from the rewards to match their perceived effort.
Most gamers however don't do that. They play the game and get their stuff when they get their stuff. They view the game as fun and relaxing and tend to ask for cosmetic rewards instead of ones that increase their power. They want more role-play options and involved storylines.
Without exception (unless the game company denies the goals of the first group)- the second group will be driven away. The Hardcore look down on them and insults them. The power creep required to keep the Hardcore happy becomes unmanageable for the second group and entire sections of the game become off limits to them.
This isn't necessary bad for the game company, depending upon where their income comes from. The Hardcore do tend to drop hard currency. This may in fact be the market they shoot for.
This happens to all MMOs, and eventually the non-Hardcore leave.
So given this, what is the natural outcome for STO?
It was Delta Rising. It was the upgrade system. It's spec points.
And it will continue. To answer the OP, yes Power Creep can be sustained. It's actually easy to do, and profitable to do.
And I'd have more respect for PvErs if they'd stop appointing PvPers every kind of derogatory behaviors. Do you pretend to be entitled to judge when all you can do in PvP is exploding? Even worse you didn't even try to ask those pesky PvPers suggestions on how to improve.
A week ago a guy whispered me in game and asked me help on how to build a PvP ship. I didn't even know him or met before. Guess what, he simply found my handle in game in the PvP forums and when he saw me online in OPVP simply asked for help. Yes all he did until then was PvE, but do you think I had reserves on helping him out?
I gave him all the help he needed, tested his ship, told him about his weak points, a bit of strategy. He thanked me and returned to the drawing board to improve his skills and build.
Every other PvPer I know would do, and did, that.
While you... you're just posting senseless bs about a part of the community that gives zero importance of what you think about them.
Now return to the fog that generated you and stay there.
While some PvPers like to hide their builds, the vast majority (myself included) are more than happy to share them.
Why?
Simple; an enemy that knows what they're doing offers a lot more resistance than someone that doesn't even know how to balance their shields properly. That's what makes PvP a whole lot more fun than PvE. It's always changing, never the same encounter twice. It makes you think on your feet and provides a fun challenge. Educated players are more than fun clueless meatbags - whether that's NPCs or players that want to fight, but simply lack the requisite background knowledge.
I'm genuinely curious; did the offer any sort of reason as to why they increased NPC HP or even a heads up that it was happening? Or did people suddenly discover one day that NPCs had millions of HP?
DR happened during a period where I was away with the game, so I missed all of the build up and initial drama.
Who could be the next Big Bad that's as threatening?
Will we run into a Stargate SG-1 situation, where after increasingly more powerful enemies, you end up fighting (and defeating, magically) literal Gods themselves?
Being called a carebear isn't necessarily an insult, it just reflects your values for the game. Do RPers get insulted when you refer to them or the game as Space Barbie? Do DPSers cry foul every time someone says they're just chasing pointless goals?
It was on Tribble for a bit before hitting Holodeck, since it was an expansion rather than just a season - even the DPS folks posted warnings about it...but within two weeks it was nerfed into the ground - yet folks continue to go on about it as if it is even worse than it was at there with the launch.
For those two weeks, it was around 3-4x the content requirement it had been...but then it was just about 40% more than it was...keeping in mind the difference in the content requirement vs. potential, where they pretty much kept the 18:1 ratio going...kind of, depends on the content - leans closer to a 20:1 ratio in many cases.
Basically though, the average players were stomping content...Cryptic couldn't actually make things harder, but by tossing some extra health at the mobs they could slow things down to try to fix the reward/time thing they've got going.
They still haven't added in all the Elite content to go with the split they did...and Hell, they even took out NWS.
Some folks like to point to the changes being made for the DPS folks...but uh, yeah...hrmm...
Top Five ISE pre-DR
1) 89102
2) 82900
3) 77915
4) 73456
5) 67059
1) 1:57
2) 1:59
3) 2:01
4) 2:02
5) 2:03
Top Five ISA (current)
1) 120173
2) 113223
3) 104141
4) 97038
5) 92347
1) 0:55
2) 0:58
3) 1:00
4) 1:03
5) 1:04
/cough
Yeah...lol...not.
It was just what the average players were doing...simple as that, imho. Folks massively below what those average players do (say folks that might show up for a HSA doing 556 DPS or for ISA doing 1947 DPS for example)...want to blame the DPS folks for it. But it's just all the folks that were doing their 4-6k DPS that were making a mockery of Cryptic's content, imho.
All sorts of scapegoating going on...meh.
I used to hide my builds, after DR though I decided to share them if needed just in case someone wanted to get closer to our own environment. The real issue with PvP builds is that carbon copying them is never a good idea, because the user had tailored it to suit his needs. That's why I always encourage to mix and match on their own. Running a copy if my ship makes you an "eternal second" because you'd never be able to use it as good as I do. But ship building is a skill you acquire with time, until you get to the point where you can build on your own.
And you never had the privilege to be treated with respect. That makes things equal. If you get offended so easily on the Web just shut it down. There are 7 billion people on this planet and you think I could possibly care of your feelings?
Try to do something that makes you earn that respect. As long as you're acid with every PvPer you meet, you're in for an acid rain.
Lol I don't have any issues with people who play PvE. I dislike those who pretend to be superior to PvPers, insult and entitle themselves as glorious veterans. And carebears as well.
You think PvP community is all nice and dandy? Lol no there was a complete idiot months ago who did not even deserve to be called human, who was insulting a Polish PvPer about TRIBBLE concentration camps... Can'f even start to explain it for how disgusting it was.
You're just over reacting in a way that makes me smile.