Starfleet Klingons

jaredwillcutt479

This may have been asked before but I couldn't find anything on it. So the game offers a Klingon Boff as a reward to Starfleet Captians while the Federation is supposedly at war with the Klingons and I got to thinking, are there any in universe explanations for a Klingon serving the Federation while they are at war with the Empire? It's my understanding even Worf switched sides after the war started. So are there any concepts that really work from a rp perspective? Is there a way a Klingon could do this and still be with honor? He is basically a traitor to the Empire and even his entire race, isn't he? Maybe if a Klingon somehow knew the war was a manipulation of the Iconians, he would side with the Federation in efforts to restore peace? I dunno. Help me out here lol.

sisteric

If the Klingon owed a debt of honor to Starfleet, or an specific Starfleet Officer, he would be be seen as honorable for holding to those precepts of Klingon Honor.
Also, Klingon Intelligence Officer under deep cover to gather intel would also work.
If he has made some oath to a Starfleet Officer he could also be found on the 'wrong' side of the war and yet still be seen as Honorable and Courageous.

And that's just from off the top of my head. Given time, I probably could come up with more intricate reasons.

chalpen

We are at war? What?

nadiezja

The Empire is a feudal system. It is entirely possible that entire Houses do not recognize the Chancellor's administration as legitimate, and side with the Federation to bring down the wicked usurper.

Maybe they even think J'mpok is an Undine.

Do we know he isn't?

rahmkota19

Worf during DS9 season 4.

stf65

worf was serving with the federation when the klingons declared war in 2372.

reginamala78

Far-flung colonists, exiles, people who think the Empire as-is is acting dishonorably, any RP reason you could think of. One of my Fed ships, first officer is Klingon, I've always thought of him as the son of refugees from a purge of Duras vassals in 2367, and grew up hating the Empire, the Houses, and the entire concept of Klingon honor. Theres a million reasons out there for Klingons serving in Starfleet or Federation races serving in the KDF, anything you can imagine. IDIC

mackbolan01

heh, wookie,ohhhh i mean klingon life-debt much ????

200th post

rickeyredshirt

I've never heard of a Klingon life debt before and a Google search returned nothing on the topic. Klingons revered death so I find it odd they would have a life debt system. Death, specifically in battle, was their golden ticket to Sto'Vo'Kor (Klingon heaven). They also prefer death to a life lived as a servant or slave. As others have pointed out as well, Worf served Starfleet during the Klingon War arc on DS9. He was subjected to constant barbs from other Klingons through DS9 and TNG ("At least I do not wear the uniform of the petaQ!") but stayed loyal like a true Klingon.

sirmayday

jaredwillcutt479 wrote: »

It's my understanding even Worf switched sides after the war started.

My understanding was that Worf had retired from Starfleet by the time the 'current' war started, and was actively serving as the Imperial Ambassador to the Federation; if I'm right about that posting, his lines about 'choosing a side' when war started would even be a little disingenuous, since as a foreign ambassador from a beligerent state, he likely would have been recalled by the Council and/or deported from the Federation.

As has been stated, Worf (Mr. Klingon-Honor-Is-Everything himself) stayed with Starfleet during the brief war between the Federation and Empire immediately prior to the Dominion War.

iconians

reginamala78 wrote: »

Far-flung colonists, exiles, people who think the Empire as-is is acting dishonorably, any RP reason you could think of. One of my Fed ships, first officer is Klingon, I've always thought of him as the son of refugees from a purge of Duras vassals in 2367, and grew up hating the Empire, the Houses, and the entire concept of Klingon honor. Theres a million reasons out there for Klingons serving in Starfleet or Federation races serving in the KDF, anything you can imagine. IDIC

Pretty much all of this. Worf only switched to the KDF because he believed that the Federation was not helping as much as they could have, and saw that he was needed on Qo'noS.

Klingons on the other hand have numerous reasons they would join the Federation. If their House was disgraced, they become persona non grata on Qo'noS. Maybe they were not born on Qo'noS at all. It's just as possible they were in a similar situation like Torres or Worf.

Maybe they married into a Federation family and felt they were obligated to them instead of Qo'noS. Maybe they were orphans and adopted by a Federation family.

Maybe they were disillusioned with Qo'noS and Chancellor J'mpok and chose to exile themselves. Maybe they were forced into exile by the Empire.

Klingon honor is about as malleable as you can get. Klingon honor is just as contradictory as anything else portrayed in Star Trek, to the point Klingon honor can literally mean anything you want it to mean.

You could say it is a klingon's obligation to serve the Federation out of a sense of honor, just as much as you could say it is a klingon's obligation to serve the Klingon Empire out of a sense of honor. You could still be correct in either scenario.

Honor in the Klingon sense means anything you want it to mean, if you need to justify an action. In the show that's pretty much how they justified anything they did, no matter how horrific or cruel.

Murder children? Well, it's out of a sense of klingon honor.

Set a house on fire? Well, it was only the honorable thing to do.

Leave the toilet seat up? Honor dictates that it must be left up, just as Kahless did.

Cut the crust off of bread? The 16th Chancellor did that before starting a bloody conquest of war, therefore you honor him by cutting the crust off your bread.

lianthelia

stf65 wrote: »

worf was serving with the federation when the klingons declared war in 2372.

This...and there are others like B'elanna perhaps...she wasn't even remotely interested in the Empire like Worf was.

iconians

lianthelia wrote: »

This...and there are others like B'elanna perhaps...she wasn't even remotely interested in the Empire like Worf was.

To the contrary, she absolutely hated her klingon ancestory as a result of her traumatic childhood. She even wanted to genetically engineer Miral to remove the klingon parts of her so she wouldn't have to grow up under similar circumstances -- she was crazy enough she changed The Doctor's opinions on that... manually.

sentinel64

My Fed aligned Klingon has a backstory about his family and several other smaller families were framed by the Duras family (well before Worf's father) and suffered discommendation as a family. They found refuge with a Fed colony and many eventually swore fealty to the Federation due to the support provide to them, and some joined the key organization that sponsored them, Section 31. :eek:

psiameese

The kuvah'magh is likely the only reason some Klingon's would ever need to incorporate the Federation into their lives. If Starfleet was good enough for Miral Paris, then it's likely good enough for them as well. Klingon's would be willing to compromise their place within the Empire for such a thing.

moonshadowdark

Klingons can join the Federation because only an idiot would say no to a Klingon.

Klingons do what they want.

So Put'aq you!

leviathan99

As I recall, part of it may have come from support for the Klingon government being split by questions over whether J'mpok honorably succeeded Martok.

J'mpok was implied to be in the thrall of an Orion woman, the details of which are public record. The council is publicly known to be completely made up of Klingons who have Orions living in their homes. J'mpok was also backed by the House of Duras and heavily suggested to have deep Romulan ties.

On top of that, J'mpok cut the video feed when he killed Martok and there is a wealth of public information to suggest he poisoned Martok and may have cheated in their duel.

Some Klingon Houses condemned the war against the Federation and J'mpok was too politically compromised to openly respond to them, I believe.

On top of that, Miral Paris is publicly known to be the Kuvah'magh and many Klingons openly worship her even as she serves in Starfleet, with religious pilgrims following her movements.

tragamites

jaredwillcutt479 wrote: »

This may have been asked before but I couldn't find anything on it. So the game offers a Klingon Boff as a reward to Starfleet Captians while the Federation is supposedly at war with the Klingons and I got to thinking, are there any in universe explanations for a Klingon serving the Federation while they are at war with the Empire? It's my understanding even Worf switched sides after the war started. So are there any concepts that really work from a rp perspective? Is there a way a Klingon could do this and still be with honor? He is basically a traitor to the Empire and even his entire race, isn't he? Maybe if a Klingon somehow knew the war was a manipulation of the Iconians, he would side with the Federation in efforts to restore peace? I dunno. Help me out here lol.

So I played on this at launch (Or when Klingons were available as Captains for FEDs) and made me a Klingon Captain that Commanded the Entreprise in all its variations. She had the Ent, TOS, and A-F to include 2 D variants (Alternate Future.)

I mostly did this for the Irony of it but at the same time had a story for her similar to Worf in that she was a war orphan of the Dominion war and grew up with Humans on DS9. For this reason she had no real ideals of what it was to be Klingon.

angrytarg

My RP: The house my Klingons belong to (brothers) is not a great house but holds some assets like their own shipyard, so it has some value. It has always been a strong supporter of the alliance between the Empire and the UFP to the point they expanded their influence by co-founding a federate colony world providing resources and colonists of the their own. By doing so, it had equally strong ties to both realms. When STOs story kicked in and the relations grew darker the house and also the two brothers were torn apart, one condemned the Chancellor's actions and did not see the reason for a new conflict and stayed with the UFP and Starfleet eventually, the other believed to serve in the Empire's best interest by supporting it. Both did what they thought was the right and honourable thing to do, and they both never blamed each other for anything. Now tha tthe war is resolved relations have been normalised anyway.

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mustrumridcully0

I guess the better question is why there aren't Humans fighting on the Klingon side.

The choice of any individual's allegience is his own, it is not preordained by his race.

The TNG episode were Deanna was put on a Romulan Ship as fake Tal'Shiar agent also included a Federation citizen (I think it was even a Starfleet Officer actually) that had switched to the Romulans and lived among them for many years.

peterconnorfirst

Klingons have been at war with the Federation before. Klingons had their reason to not serve the Empire during that time before.

As far as my new STO delta recruit Klingon serving Starfleet is concerned she has her reason for doing so and still fights with honour.

The upper hierarchy of the Klingon Empire seems to get infiltrated or influenced by its enemy’s easily and with much more devastating results than the Federation government or Starfleet. Let it be by shape shifters, undine impostors or Romulans triggering civil wars.

My Klingon even believes the potential for an honourable fight is higher in the Federation than in the Empire.

How did a Klingon once put it just in order to grab power for himself … “Maybe they have better leaders?”

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angrytarg

westmetals wrote: »

(...)Does the Empire allow non-citizens to join its forces? Again... we have no evidence to support that, with the possible exception of Trills. (...)

I like to adress that. Actually we only have that in STO which doesn't really makes much sense lore wise as much as giving the two factions diverse species to choose from for customization purposes. Joined Trill are a account wide pre-order-bonus (originally) allowing you to play the species you paid for on both factions, very loose canon recognition is based on curzon dax who had adventures with Klingons, but he surely didn't serve int heir forces, he was personally involved in a friendship with Klingons and stuck along. If you are a type that can stand your ground amongst Klingons I'm sure not many Klingons have a problem with you tagging along for the fun. Joining their forces, commanding their ships however - that's a long shot and I think this is not well protrayed in STO. With that reasoning there should also be Ferengi available to the KDF and so on.

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beerxhyper

iconians wrote: »

Set a house on fire? Well, it was only the honorable thing to do.

Leave the toilet seat up? Honor dictates that it must be left up, just as Kahless did.

Cut the crust off of bread? The 16th Chancellor did that before starting a bloody conquest of war, therefore you honor him by cutting the crust off your bread.

lol leave the toilet seat up oh god i well be laughing for hours now

doktormarengo

There's actually a very simple explanation - Diaspora. Or the spreading of people from one place to another.

For example, there were Japanese and German soldiers serving in the U.S. military during WWII. Their families immigrated to the U.S. many years prior to the war, in most cases. They identified as Americans.

So there could be Klingon decedents living on Federation worlds - who've never set foot on Qo'noS and totally identify as Federation citizens. Also, lots of 1/2 Klingons, 1/4 Klingons etc.. are probably around due to intermarriage.

The Universe is a very big place.

jaredwillcutt479

Thanks for all the well thought out answers! When I said Worf switched sides I ment the war in STO not DS9. That being said, as was stated earlier, that wasn't exactly what happened though as apparently Worf had already retired from Starfleet and was working for the Empire. I didn't know that about DS9. truth is I didn't watch much of that show or voyager. But it is very relevant as we have an example of a klingon who is more passionate about klingon honor than most serving with Starfleet during wartime with the Empire. I like the feudal ideas too of there being houses who do not support J'mpok and are openly defying him by allying themselves with the Feds. Its kind of Game of Thronesy Star Trek style. I learned a lot about J'mpok himself and I find it interesting how shaky his claim is. Not to mention his background. I might just be able to write a decent bio for my Klingon Boff now, without having to use iconian or temporal connections.

voivodje

There is ALWAYS the rebel.
ALWAYS, no exception.
So... yes.

Soon I'll have a few IcononoNOclasts on me shippie.

erei1

They already stated it was because of Worf, a long time ago. Just like you have joined trill in KDF because of Curzon Dax.

The Klingons are not like the Federation. They are a kind of alliance of various great houses that hates each others. While they'll work together (mostly) for the Empire, and follow the Chancellor (mostly), they'll fight each other, and do alliances on their own. Some Klingons great house are friendly with the Romulan, some with the Federation. For example Duras and the Romulan. Or the Martok house and the fed.
It makes sense to have klingons who disagree with the current chancellor, and join the fed. Or even the Romulan, though it would be a lot more rare, considering the bad blood between them.

It is very similar to the European power in the middle age. While they were "forced" to do what the King asked, they had in fighting all the time, and forged alliances of their own.

jaredwillcutt479

stoleviathan99 wrote: »

As I recall, part of it may have come from support for the Klingon government being split by questions over whether J'mpok honorably succeeded Martok.

J'mpok was implied to be in the thrall of an Orion woman, the details of which are public record. The council is publicly known to be completely made up of Klingons who have Orions living in their homes. J'mpok was also backed by the House of Duras and heavily suggested to have deep Romulan ties.

On top of that, J'mpok cut the video feed when he killed Martok and there is a wealth of public information to suggest he poisoned Martok and may have cheated in their duel.

Some Klingon Houses condemned the war against the Federation and J'mpok was too politically compromised to openly respond to them, I believe.

On top of that, Miral Paris is publicly known to be the Kuvah'magh and many Klingons openly worship her even as she serves in Starfleet, with religious pilgrims following her movements.

I'm itching to know where this bit of lore comes from? Is there a comic book? Book? Something in game that reveals all this? I find this interesting and would love to look into it.