Have players scored according to ability via completion of some kind of training scenario or some other way of measuring their general effectiveness and ability. Then have those players matched against other players of a similar score, they then improve said score by participating and succeeding in PVP matches.
I've seen this in several other multiplayer games and seems to do well for a relatively evenly matched challenge.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
If Cryptic took 3 seconds to realize that PvP is a never ending source of endgame content, they could make boatloads of cash.
You can spend days/weeks/months developing PvE content that people run through in the course of a week (weekend?). Or, you spend a fraction of that development time making new maps and game types for PvP which people can play over and over for months.
PvP is based on competition. That sells C-Store/lockbox/Lobi ships/traits/gear, etc. It also heavily encourages grinding out Rep. Seriously - hop into an Arena or Cap & Hold and take a look at what ships you see there. I'll guarantee you at least 90% of them are C-Store or Lockbox ships.
You know what can be completed for free, using free gear? All of PvE.
But, instead, we have people like Geko who tell us that we're "idiots" if we get Vaped by their absolutely ridiculous levels of Power Creep (you all know just how high you can stack CrtD... and BO has a 100% CrtH) and telling us that anyone who has a min/max build for PvP (because we know no one does that for PvE, right?) is a "14 year old."
If Cryptic took 3 seconds to realize that PvP is a never ending source of endgame content, they could make boatloads of cash...
They could follow SWTOR's lead and rebrand PvP as a mini-game using default gear, spec and trait builds, while monetizing a gear, spec and trait progression system.
The only problem is, that wouldn't bring STO PvP back to life, either. Though it would probably be good enough for STOs existing PvP community.
Still seems like a lot of work for relatively small payoff, except in the potential for reduced QQ.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
There is another MMO out there whose central focus is a single story for all, regardless of race: Lord of the Rings Online. It has PvP as well. But it is not traditional PvP. In fact, it's PvP is exactly what Cryptic promised us that STO's PvP would not be: Player vs. Monster Player. In LotRO, the monster characters only exist FOR PvP. There is no Servants of Mordor PvE aspect. So no leveling a monster character from 1 to max with an epic storyline to follow.
I went and read up on this (overview; wiki entry); it's actually not a bad concept to play with (see also: DCUO's Legends PvP)... and I think most of the components are already in place. Aside from these, we could also adapt the 'assassins' mechanic from Age of Wulin/Age of Wushu (article; wiki entry). I will at this point attempt to explain how this might work, using The Vault: Ensnared as a reference.
In a 'Red Flag' version of this queue, a quintet of players queue up and play through normally. When the Tholian task force and flagship enter the area, though, the scenario pauses and pulls in up to four players who've queued up to play as the 'Red Team'; they spawn in their choice of Orb Weavers and Recluses and have to defend the flagship until it escapes. What's in it for the bodyguards? A reward package, plus a per-kill bonus if they succeed. Note: when the flagship escapes or is destroyed, these bodyguards leave the map.
PvP is dead, it just doesn't know it yet and is limbing along, on life support, barely able to function... it just needs to be shot, buried, and put out of it's misery at this point.
I used to PvP... but with the way of the massive power creep... and the fact that the cost to fix it is probably more then the money they'd reclaim from it for years... it literally just needs to be taken completly out, and Cryptic just has to accept the losses.
Lets be honest here... I don't think the Devs have the ability to fix it.... they're too lazy and too incompetant for them to even have a clue on how to fix it. Hell they can't fix month old bugs in a timely manner... or even figure out a way to make the AI harder without simply going the lazy way out of simply raising HPs to go along with their unmitigated power creep.
Simply put... the devs don't care... and even if they did I don't think they have the knowledge or the ability to fix it.
Why not turn it into a cash cow instead of pandering towards Space Barbiers and PvE Heroes?
Take a guess: on average, which group of players within the game do you think spends the most money? Now, combine that with both time that has been devoted to development so far and things that have been asked to be developed.
Why not turn it into a cash cow instead of pandering towards Space Barbiers and PvE Heroes?
Take a guess: on average, which group of players within the game do you think spends the most money? Now, combine that with both time that has been devoted to development so far and things that have been asked to be developed.
Hint: It's PvP.
Actually I think you're wrong on the PvP... simply because if Cryptic was making more money off of PvP then PvE you can be DAMN sure they'd be doing everything in their power to make PvP better. If for the very least because PWE and their accountants would be telling them to.
However because they simply couldn't care less about PvP it's obvious that the accountants couldn't care less about it... which means it's not making or losing them a ton of money.
If there's one thing I think every single person can agree on... money talks and the PvP ain't talkin' money.
Actually I think you're wrong on the PvP... simply because if Cryptic was making more money off of PvP then PvE you can be DAMN sure they'd be doing everything in their power to make PvP better. If for the very least because PWE and their accountants would be telling them to.
However because they simply couldn't care less about PvP it's obvious that the accountants couldn't care less about it... which means it's not making or losing them a ton of money.
If there's one thing I think every single person can agree on... money talks and the PvP ain't talkin' money.
Really?
Walk into an Arena/Cap and Hold.
Take a look at the types of ships you see. The Rep abilities people are using. The gear they have that they've upgraded.
Almost everyone has spent a considerable sum, in one way or another.
Is PvP as big of a cash cow as it can be? No. Because Cryptic was continually (and actively, through either shoddy development choices or outright insulting and name calling players) driven large portions of the community that is left.
But just look at how much people have already spent, and continue to spend.
All while costing absolutely nothing in development time.
What sells more, new gear and ships that PvPers just eat right up, or new formal wear?
(Rumor has it, though, that the reason they haven't developed for PvP at all (despite continual and consistent promises to do so, and that things were "in testing and to be released soon" that haven't seen the light of day in 5 years) is because their code is so garbled that they're simply incapable of adding PvP content. But, until we see confirmation of that or an actual reason as to why they haven't, it's fair to continue asking for development)
Take a look at the types of ships you see. The Rep abilities people are using. The gear they have that they've upgraded.
Almost everyone has spent a considerable sum, in one way or another.
Is PvP as big of a cash cow as it can be? No. Because Cryptic was continually (and actively, through either shoddy development choices or outright insulting and name calling players) driven large portions of the community that is left.
But just look at how much people have already spent, and continue to spend.
All while costing absolutely nothing in development time.
What sells more, new gear and ships that PvPers just eat right up, or new formal wear?
(Rumor has it, though, that the reason they haven't developed for PvP at all (despite continual and consistent promises to do so, and that things were "in testing and to be released soon" that haven't seen the light of day in 5 years) is because their code is so garbled that they're simply incapable of adding PvP content. But, until we see confirmation of that or an actual reason as to why they haven't, it's fair to continue asking for development)
Oh make no mistake about it... I think Cryptic it the only thing at fault why PvP is dead in this game... and they can't point figures at anyone or anything but themselves.... I also agree that it's a big circle... Cryptic flubbed up PvP... so the PvPers left... taking their money with them... so Cryptic puts PvP fixes on a further burner... so more PvPers leave... taking their money with them... etc etc...
I think though that the code being so garbled that they can't fix PvP is a cop out. Man can they figure out the code when it comes to making new ships... changing PvE so the grind is longer and more intensive... making new gear.... making new FEs... but suddenly when it comes to PvP they can't figure out the code?
It's kind of like saying they can't fix the AI on PvE mobs because it's too hard... so here' more HPs.. Cryptic isn't putting the effort into fixing PvP because it doesn't make them any money. If it did make them money suddenly they'd figure out the code and magically we'd have more PvP content, and if they coudln't figure it out and PWE saw that it was costing them money... they'd fire the incompetant jerks and bring in someone who could figure it out and make them money.
PWE is all about the money... which as a company shouldn't shock anyone... and if they saw money being hemorraged away by incompetance they'd fix it... in this case they're not fixing it because they don't see any money loss.
But as I think you and I agree on... that's Cryptic's fault in the first place... and because its a big circle... PvP has pretty much died because it's not getting the support it needs because it's not making money anymore.
COULD it have been the money maker... absolutly yes... but now... no... now it's a lame duck so under fed and malnorished that it's not even fit for mounting on a wall somewhere as a trophey... now it's just embarressing that we even took the time to shoot it.
Oh make no mistake about it... I think Cryptic it the only thing at fault why PvP is dead in this game... and they can't point figures at anyone or anything but themselves.... I also agree that it's a big circle... Cryptic flubbed up PvP... so the PvPers left... taking their money with them... so Cryptic puts PvP fixes on a further burner... so more PvPers leave... taking their money with them... etc etc...
I think though that the code being so garbled that they can't fix PvP is a cop out. Man can they figure out the code when it comes to making new ships... changing PvE so the grind is longer and more intensive... making new gear.... making new FEs... but suddenly when it comes to PvP they can't figure out the code?
It's kind of like saying they can't fix the AI on PvE mobs because it's too hard... so here' more HPs.. Cryptic isn't putting the effort into fixing PvP because it doesn't make them any money. If it did make them money suddenly they'd figure out the code and magically we'd have more PvP content, and if they coudln't figure it out and PWE saw that it was costing them money... they'd fire the incompetant jerks and bring in someone who could figure it out and make them money.
PWE is all about the money... which as a company shouldn't shock anyone... and if they saw money being hemorraged away by incompetance they'd fix it... in this case they're not fixing it because they don't see any money loss.
But as I think you and I agree on... that's Cryptic's fault in the first place... and because its a big circle... PvP has pretty much died because it's not getting the support it needs because it's not making money anymore.
COULD it have been the money maker... absolutly yes... but now... no... now it's a lame duck so under fed and malnorished that it's not even fit for mounting on a wall somewhere as a trophey... now it's just embarressing that we even took the time to shoot it.
It's definitely Cryptic's fault, glad we could agree on at least that much
My point in, as far as their return on investment, PvP is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else - solely due to the fact that they haven't spent a dime on it, and people spends heaps on ships/traits/gear/whatever.
With only a marginal effort for development and a few mechanical changes, PvP could flourish. It could even be tied into the Iconian War for PvEers, in that they need to "train up" to fight the mighty Herald/Iconians, in an event similar to Delta Recruits.
PvP has all the potential to bring in massive profits. It does it a good bit now. But it could do way more.
It's definitely Cryptic's fault, glad we could agree on at least that much
My point in, as far as their return on investment, PvP is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else - solely due to the fact that they haven't spent a dime on it, and people spends heaps on ships/traits/gear/whatever.
With only a marginal effort for development and a few mechanical changes, PvP could flourish. It could even be tied into the Iconian War for PvEers, in that they need to "train up" to fight the mighty Herald/Iconians, in an event similar to Delta Recruits.
PvP has all the potential to bring in massive profits. It does it a good bit now. But it could do way more.
Yeah I agree with this too... it has potential... it's always had potential to bring in massive profits... but for whatever reason Cryptic decided it wasn't important and has let it die.
But then to be honest PvP was never a big deal to Cryptic. It was practically an add on to the STO at launch... with massive issues even then because it hadn't been developed fully... and it's gone down here since then with the major power creep just amplifing the situation even more.
So yeah I think we kind of agree on that a) it's Cryptic's fault and b) if done right it has potential... but I just don't see it being the money maker currently... and that I don't think Cryptic wants to spend the time or the effort to fix it because it's currently not a money maker... heck you also said I'm not even sure if they have the ability to fix it.
Besides with all the money PWE and Cryptic is spending on voice talent... it's pretty obvious that PvP isn't getting any investment any time soon.
You put a decent community you get PvP going and flourishing.
In PvE example, PEST degraded while the DPS admins are still going and keeps recruiting. You may say that PESTF left, but you can also say some of DPS admins also went AWoL. The difference being the continued recruitment in both admin and recruiting. There is a self created reward in DPS which a table.
This whining about PvP balance is all about competition. Players wanting not to be one shot and whine/rage quit about it is common in PvP. You also get one shot in PvE except very elite missions but PvE players still do it.
You also got ethos difference. In DPS league, there is sharing of knowledge even by the top players with their builds and how they do it. In PvP, it is counter intuititve that the top PvP player gives their builds and styles to others.
So, yes until the PvP community figures how to adapt, and PvP leaders actually start doing recruiting, etc. rather than whining or blaming game mechanics, PvP will remain in the grave or near the grave.
Or if you want to start from scratch, recruit new pvp players rather than the old PvP players. Better to have players who have a different outlook and attitude than the old PvP players. The old PvP players are the reason why PvP dead anyways. So there is no point of recruiting who left the game because they blame game mechanics.
PVP is the only reason I ever pulled out my wallet for this game. PVP was what sent me digging for info on how to build ships, and testing different builds out for theory and effect. There are other ways to do this in game, but I enjoy the challenge and variety of another player.
If players could enjoy a competitive match, pretty much everyone would be happy. It's a hell of a lot of fun, and a great way to make new friends and learn about the game.
Matchmaking and a leaderboard=Good games and an incentive to get better. Everybody is going to be looking up at a challenge, stop worrying about epeens. If you don't want to improve, you don't have to and you can still get in a good match. Recreational shouldn't be on the field alone against pro's. Some people live here, some folks visit. It's about fun, and an incentive to improve. Improvement costs time or money. Cryptic likes both.
Players needed for matchmaking- Reward the hell out of it for a couple of weeks. Keep rewarding the hell out of it while the matchmaking system starts pulling info. After a few matches, games are going to start getting competitive, and then they're going to start getting fun. P2W and skill can both be on the same field and both get kills. Fun pvp becomes a habit.
Rewards- gotta do something here... if matchmaking is in place, there isn't any reason matches shouldn't be competitive. Obviously, privates should not be rewarded, but no one wants to fight lemmings either. There is an afk penalty for stf's... maybe something along those lines.
Learn how to use ignore. Most folks don't get under my skin too much, but phallus's exist. It's super easy to ignore them.
All of this has been stated repetitively and eloquently by better folks than I. I am not a very good pvp player, but I still find fun. Wish other folks did too.
I used to pvp when the game first came out. It was a lot more fun than pve. With ground it was all about expose and exploit, with people ducking in and out of cover. It could be quite tactical. Sci character pvp was a lot of fun with low dps but holds and roots. You could have fights that last quite a while. Then people whined and all the interesting powers were removed or nerfed. It became about dps only. DPS is so great now that expose and exploit has been all but forgotten.
Space pvp was also interesting with people healing each others shields and using combos of attacks and defense. They hit you with jam sensors, you use sci team, they use cannon rapid fire you use reverse shield polarity and feedback pulse and so on. Now it's just about dps. DPS >all makes pvp boring. Plus there were only a couple of pvp maps last time I looked. It was all arena stuff with nothing in open space. Kind of pointless.
With all the OP stuff that's been put in the game PVP isn't going to be much fun now. Just about gear instead of tactics and skill. Probably best to just focus on PvE at this point. PvE used to be fairly not that great. Now it is good, right up until you run out of stuff to do.
How can you folks call yourself wizards of sto and know absolutely nothing about the game?
I dont call myself wizard. You guys got to prove yourself first in PvE. Because all I have seen from dinosaur PvPers are trolling and griefing the forums but havent actually completed recent PvE elite missions like HSE posting their names in the table for proof. All Air no Show. The statement you just said applies to you.
I have just proven myself that The old PvPers just refuse to actually admit that PvP is dead because of them. That it is their fault and the community. Not the game.
Because if it were the games fault, might as well quit and rage EVE because I was pawned by a Marauder in my battleship. Therefore, the EVE devs must create balance so that my Battleship can kill a marauder without adapting to vampire tactics.
Everyone in this game can actually do anything anyone else can do in PvP, which is balance itself. Except there is no decent community to actually carry PvP which is the main problem of PvP.
I dont call myself wizard. You guys got to prove yourself first in PvE. Because all I have seen from dinosaur PvPers are trolling and griefing the forums but havent actually completed recent PvE elite missions like HSE posting their names in the table for proof. All Air no Show. The statement you just said applies to you.
I have just proven myself that The old PvPers just refuse to actually admit that PvP is dead because of them. That it is their fault and the community. Not the game.
Because if it were the games fault, might as well quit and rage EVE because I was pawned by a Marauder in my battleship. Therefore, the EVE devs must create balance so that my Battleship can kill a marauder without adapting to vampire tactics.
Everyone in this game can actually do anything anyone else can do in PvP, which is balance itself. Except there is no decent community to actually carry PvP which is the main problem of PvP.
Advanced pugs are dead because of you. There I just proved it.
And Open PVP will not help this game it will destroy it. There are a lot of us PvEers who don't like PVP and don't play it. You add in open season and I would lay money that most of em leave the game, I would, and have done it before for the same reason.
As for the Neutral zone server, I agree that separating the PVPers is a great idea. But they would need to add in a fourth server. Red shirt is Cryptics Test server where they test new content. Tribble is called a terst server but all it is is a preview server of what is coming to holodeck. Its been said before that by the time content hits tribble its about 90 percent to late to change/fix bugs reported.
I fully agree with you.
PvP just doesn't fit to the tone of STO anymore (if it ever did).
Creating a new server just for PvPers, i'm the last to disagree. But to change the "main" game to fit more to PvPers would be disastrous imo. Most of STOs players are simply not interested in PvP, and the difference between organized 5 year players and casuals would be too great.
Sure, you can add huge rewards for doing PvP but casual players would only be frustrated by being overrun by pro teams over and over again. They could never reach "professional players" level because they just lack the time and dedication for PvP.
Player numbers would decrease, the game would die imo.
On the other hand a dedicated PvP server wouln need to have its own dev team to balance stuff decoupled to the rest of the game. Cryptics devs would need to do almost every content twice.
EDIT:
I think the key to keep STO alive is cooperation between players not confrontation.
just my 2 cents
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I disagree everyone has an opportunity to do well in pvp. But it would likely mean you'd have to pick one character and focus on it rather then 4-5 random toons.
If you want to compete you can . It will just take some time grinding and learning tactics that work for your characters build. It would take effort it would not be a give me an easy button. I really do hate hate when easy buttons are abused.
Retired Rear Admiral-Jay Maverick-
Known simply as -Maverick-
Klingons should Beware of Maverick.
Maverick loves a fight and tends to be victorious even as the underdog.
He has an aptitude for tactics,guerrilla warfare and security.
"United Federation of Planets"
12th Fleet - Intelligence Division "Khalija" - Alpha Group
Not on Current Assignment.-On Retirement leave at Leach Lake in Minnesota
Why would you all want PvP removed from the game? if you don't like it, don't play it. Don't be a male genital. A lot of people I know in this game PvP , and we enjoy it. I hate PvE. Do I want it removed? No (although it would make PvP more bearable because it would balance it if you took away the rediculous rep gear)
Option two has a MUCH bigger chance of success....
Only if you use a flamethrower. Everything must be cleansed with fire. It's the only way to be sure.
But to the OP. It's dead Jim. Not only that, it's been buried for ages. Why would you go and dig it up and disrespect the dead like that?
PvP tied in with Fleets in a Territory control system might have been awesome. But then the Feds and KDF made peace. That was the Dev reply to the PvP question. NO! The end.
Cheers from Antonio Valerio Cortez III, Half-Celestial Archduke of the Free Marches Confederacy.
You put a decent community you get PvP going and flourishing.
In PvE example, PEST degraded while the DPS admins are still going and keeps recruiting. You may say that PESTF left, but you can also say some of DPS admins also went AWoL. The difference being the continued recruitment in both admin and recruiting. There is a self created reward in DPS which a table.
This whining about PvP balance is all about competition. Players wanting not to be one shot and whine/rage quit about it is common in PvP. You also get one shot in PvE except very elite missions but PvE players still do it.
You also got ethos difference. In DPS league, there is sharing of knowledge even by the top players with their builds and how they do it. In PvP, it is counter intuititve that the top PvP player gives their builds and styles to others.
So, yes until the PvP community figures how to adapt, and PvP leaders actually start doing recruiting, etc. rather than whining or blaming game mechanics, PvP will remain in the grave or near the grave.
Or if you want to start from scratch, recruit new pvp players rather than the old PvP players. Better to have players who have a different outlook and attitude than the old PvP players. The old PvP players are the reason why PvP dead anyways. So there is no point of recruiting who left the game because they blame game mechanics.
I'm a PvP veteran and I can say the above is complete BS. Did you do regular PvP pre-DR? Did you talk in OPvP with the other guys? Did you camp Ker'rat day and night? Did you do OPVP 10v10 nights? No, then why talk on something you don't know?
PvP right now has a huge paywall for ship building and the current mechanic killed what was good of S8 for it. It started with R&D powercreep and got worse with MK XIV and ridiculous upgrade costs and grind.
Is PVP currently Dead compared to previous Seasons of patches? Seems like it to me.
No longer is Organized PVP organized around PVP from the last time I was there.
What made it feel dead? For me, the over priced t6 ships, Lockbox spam, Power Creep, and I just got a general burned out feeling. How ever that's a feeling that even now has not gone away.
What should they do with PVP?
Makes me want to ask a question, with a question:
What happened to the Exploration missions?
They removed them, with promises to bring out an upgraded version.
I haven't yet seen any developmental notes on that from the news and dev blogs so far.
So maybe the Devs should do the same. They wouldn't be removing PVP.. right? Just putting it on a back burner to simmer while other PVE stuff more important was released..
I'm suuure they would release it again some day.. Maybe in 2375.. Or perhaps 2599..
Oh sorry, I think I got a little unhelpful there.. What I meant to say was: Soon™
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Comments
There ya go. I fixed that OP for ya.
Sure it was awesome in season 2 (or was it 3) but the PvP community killed it with their obnoxious attitudes and constant exploiting.
Its dead and its time for everyone to let its zombie corpse fade away.
I've seen this in several other multiplayer games and seems to do well for a relatively evenly matched challenge.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
You can spend days/weeks/months developing PvE content that people run through in the course of a week (weekend?). Or, you spend a fraction of that development time making new maps and game types for PvP which people can play over and over for months.
PvP is based on competition. That sells C-Store/lockbox/Lobi ships/traits/gear, etc. It also heavily encourages grinding out Rep. Seriously - hop into an Arena or Cap & Hold and take a look at what ships you see there. I'll guarantee you at least 90% of them are C-Store or Lockbox ships.
You know what can be completed for free, using free gear? All of PvE.
But, instead, we have people like Geko who tell us that we're "idiots" if we get Vaped by their absolutely ridiculous levels of Power Creep (you all know just how high you can stack CrtD... and BO has a 100% CrtH) and telling us that anyone who has a min/max build for PvP (because we know no one does that for PvE, right?) is a "14 year old."
The only problem is, that wouldn't bring STO PvP back to life, either. Though it would probably be good enough for STOs existing PvP community.
Still seems like a lot of work for relatively small payoff, except in the potential for reduced QQ.
In a 'Red Flag' version of this queue, a quintet of players queue up and play through normally. When the Tholian task force and flagship enter the area, though, the scenario pauses and pulls in up to four players who've queued up to play as the 'Red Team'; they spawn in their choice of Orb Weavers and Recluses and have to defend the flagship until it escapes. What's in it for the bodyguards? A reward package, plus a per-kill bonus if they succeed. Note: when the flagship escapes or is destroyed, these bodyguards leave the map.
I used to PvP... but with the way of the massive power creep... and the fact that the cost to fix it is probably more then the money they'd reclaim from it for years... it literally just needs to be taken completly out, and Cryptic just has to accept the losses.
Lets be honest here... I don't think the Devs have the ability to fix it.... they're too lazy and too incompetant for them to even have a clue on how to fix it. Hell they can't fix month old bugs in a timely manner... or even figure out a way to make the AI harder without simply going the lazy way out of simply raising HPs to go along with their unmitigated power creep.
Simply put... the devs don't care... and even if they did I don't think they have the knowledge or the ability to fix it.
So do the right thing and take it out.
Take a guess: on average, which group of players within the game do you think spends the most money? Now, combine that with both time that has been devoted to development so far and things that have been asked to be developed.
Hint: It's PvP.
Actually I think you're wrong on the PvP... simply because if Cryptic was making more money off of PvP then PvE you can be DAMN sure they'd be doing everything in their power to make PvP better. If for the very least because PWE and their accountants would be telling them to.
However because they simply couldn't care less about PvP it's obvious that the accountants couldn't care less about it... which means it's not making or losing them a ton of money.
If there's one thing I think every single person can agree on... money talks and the PvP ain't talkin' money.
Really?
Walk into an Arena/Cap and Hold.
Take a look at the types of ships you see. The Rep abilities people are using. The gear they have that they've upgraded.
Almost everyone has spent a considerable sum, in one way or another.
Is PvP as big of a cash cow as it can be? No. Because Cryptic was continually (and actively, through either shoddy development choices or outright insulting and name calling players) driven large portions of the community that is left.
But just look at how much people have already spent, and continue to spend.
All while costing absolutely nothing in development time.
What sells more, new gear and ships that PvPers just eat right up, or new formal wear?
(Rumor has it, though, that the reason they haven't developed for PvP at all (despite continual and consistent promises to do so, and that things were "in testing and to be released soon" that haven't seen the light of day in 5 years) is because their code is so garbled that they're simply incapable of adding PvP content. But, until we see confirmation of that or an actual reason as to why they haven't, it's fair to continue asking for development)
Oh make no mistake about it... I think Cryptic it the only thing at fault why PvP is dead in this game... and they can't point figures at anyone or anything but themselves.... I also agree that it's a big circle... Cryptic flubbed up PvP... so the PvPers left... taking their money with them... so Cryptic puts PvP fixes on a further burner... so more PvPers leave... taking their money with them... etc etc...
I think though that the code being so garbled that they can't fix PvP is a cop out. Man can they figure out the code when it comes to making new ships... changing PvE so the grind is longer and more intensive... making new gear.... making new FEs... but suddenly when it comes to PvP they can't figure out the code?
It's kind of like saying they can't fix the AI on PvE mobs because it's too hard... so here' more HPs.. Cryptic isn't putting the effort into fixing PvP because it doesn't make them any money. If it did make them money suddenly they'd figure out the code and magically we'd have more PvP content, and if they coudln't figure it out and PWE saw that it was costing them money... they'd fire the incompetant jerks and bring in someone who could figure it out and make them money.
PWE is all about the money... which as a company shouldn't shock anyone... and if they saw money being hemorraged away by incompetance they'd fix it... in this case they're not fixing it because they don't see any money loss.
But as I think you and I agree on... that's Cryptic's fault in the first place... and because its a big circle... PvP has pretty much died because it's not getting the support it needs because it's not making money anymore.
COULD it have been the money maker... absolutly yes... but now... no... now it's a lame duck so under fed and malnorished that it's not even fit for mounting on a wall somewhere as a trophey... now it's just embarressing that we even took the time to shoot it.
It's definitely Cryptic's fault, glad we could agree on at least that much
My point in, as far as their return on investment, PvP is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else - solely due to the fact that they haven't spent a dime on it, and people spends heaps on ships/traits/gear/whatever.
With only a marginal effort for development and a few mechanical changes, PvP could flourish. It could even be tied into the Iconian War for PvEers, in that they need to "train up" to fight the mighty Herald/Iconians, in an event similar to Delta Recruits.
PvP has all the potential to bring in massive profits. It does it a good bit now. But it could do way more.
Yeah I agree with this too... it has potential... it's always had potential to bring in massive profits... but for whatever reason Cryptic decided it wasn't important and has let it die.
But then to be honest PvP was never a big deal to Cryptic. It was practically an add on to the STO at launch... with massive issues even then because it hadn't been developed fully... and it's gone down here since then with the major power creep just amplifing the situation even more.
So yeah I think we kind of agree on that a) it's Cryptic's fault and b) if done right it has potential... but I just don't see it being the money maker currently... and that I don't think Cryptic wants to spend the time or the effort to fix it because it's currently not a money maker... heck you also said I'm not even sure if they have the ability to fix it.
Besides with all the money PWE and Cryptic is spending on voice talent... it's pretty obvious that PvP isn't getting any investment any time soon.
You put a decent community you get PvP going and flourishing.
In PvE example, PEST degraded while the DPS admins are still going and keeps recruiting. You may say that PESTF left, but you can also say some of DPS admins also went AWoL. The difference being the continued recruitment in both admin and recruiting. There is a self created reward in DPS which a table.
This whining about PvP balance is all about competition. Players wanting not to be one shot and whine/rage quit about it is common in PvP. You also get one shot in PvE except very elite missions but PvE players still do it.
You also got ethos difference. In DPS league, there is sharing of knowledge even by the top players with their builds and how they do it. In PvP, it is counter intuititve that the top PvP player gives their builds and styles to others.
So, yes until the PvP community figures how to adapt, and PvP leaders actually start doing recruiting, etc. rather than whining or blaming game mechanics, PvP will remain in the grave or near the grave.
Or if you want to start from scratch, recruit new pvp players rather than the old PvP players. Better to have players who have a different outlook and attitude than the old PvP players. The old PvP players are the reason why PvP dead anyways. So there is no point of recruiting who left the game because they blame game mechanics.
If players could enjoy a competitive match, pretty much everyone would be happy. It's a hell of a lot of fun, and a great way to make new friends and learn about the game.
Matchmaking and a leaderboard=Good games and an incentive to get better. Everybody is going to be looking up at a challenge, stop worrying about epeens. If you don't want to improve, you don't have to and you can still get in a good match. Recreational shouldn't be on the field alone against pro's. Some people live here, some folks visit. It's about fun, and an incentive to improve. Improvement costs time or money. Cryptic likes both.
Players needed for matchmaking- Reward the hell out of it for a couple of weeks. Keep rewarding the hell out of it while the matchmaking system starts pulling info. After a few matches, games are going to start getting competitive, and then they're going to start getting fun. P2W and skill can both be on the same field and both get kills. Fun pvp becomes a habit.
Rewards- gotta do something here... if matchmaking is in place, there isn't any reason matches shouldn't be competitive. Obviously, privates should not be rewarded, but no one wants to fight lemmings either. There is an afk penalty for stf's... maybe something along those lines.
Learn how to use ignore. Most folks don't get under my skin too much, but phallus's exist. It's super easy to ignore them.
All of this has been stated repetitively and eloquently by better folks than I. I am not a very good pvp player, but I still find fun. Wish other folks did too.
Space pvp was also interesting with people healing each others shields and using combos of attacks and defense. They hit you with jam sensors, you use sci team, they use cannon rapid fire you use reverse shield polarity and feedback pulse and so on. Now it's just about dps. DPS >all makes pvp boring. Plus there were only a couple of pvp maps last time I looked. It was all arena stuff with nothing in open space. Kind of pointless.
With all the OP stuff that's been put in the game PVP isn't going to be much fun now. Just about gear instead of tactics and skill. Probably best to just focus on PvE at this point. PvE used to be fairly not that great. Now it is good, right up until you run out of stuff to do.
I dont call myself wizard. You guys got to prove yourself first in PvE. Because all I have seen from dinosaur PvPers are trolling and griefing the forums but havent actually completed recent PvE elite missions like HSE posting their names in the table for proof. All Air no Show. The statement you just said applies to you.
I have just proven myself that The old PvPers just refuse to actually admit that PvP is dead because of them. That it is their fault and the community. Not the game.
Because if it were the games fault, might as well quit and rage EVE because I was pawned by a Marauder in my battleship. Therefore, the EVE devs must create balance so that my Battleship can kill a marauder without adapting to vampire tactics.
Everyone in this game can actually do anything anyone else can do in PvP, which is balance itself. Except there is no decent community to actually carry PvP which is the main problem of PvP.
Advanced pugs are dead because of you. There I just proved it.
PvP just doesn't fit to the tone of STO anymore (if it ever did).
Creating a new server just for PvPers, i'm the last to disagree. But to change the "main" game to fit more to PvPers would be disastrous imo. Most of STOs players are simply not interested in PvP, and the difference between organized 5 year players and casuals would be too great.
Sure, you can add huge rewards for doing PvP but casual players would only be frustrated by being overrun by pro teams over and over again. They could never reach "professional players" level because they just lack the time and dedication for PvP.
Player numbers would decrease, the game would die imo.
On the other hand a dedicated PvP server wouln need to have its own dev team to balance stuff decoupled to the rest of the game. Cryptics devs would need to do almost every content twice.
EDIT:
I think the key to keep STO alive is cooperation between players not confrontation.
just my 2 cents
If you want to compete you can . It will just take some time grinding and learning tactics that work for your characters build. It would take effort it would not be a give me an easy button. I really do hate hate when easy buttons are abused.
Known simply as -Maverick-
Klingons should Beware of Maverick.
Maverick loves a fight and tends to be victorious even as the underdog.
He has an aptitude for tactics,guerrilla warfare and security.
"United Federation of Planets"
12th Fleet - Intelligence Division "Khalija" - Alpha Group
Not on Current Assignment.-On Retirement leave at Leach Lake in Minnesota
Only if you use a flamethrower. Everything must be cleansed with fire. It's the only way to be sure.
But to the OP. It's dead Jim. Not only that, it's been buried for ages. Why would you go and dig it up and disrespect the dead like that?
PvP tied in with Fleets in a Territory control system might have been awesome. But then the Feds and KDF made peace. That was the Dev reply to the PvP question. NO! The end.
I'm a PvP veteran and I can say the above is complete BS. Did you do regular PvP pre-DR? Did you talk in OPvP with the other guys? Did you camp Ker'rat day and night? Did you do OPVP 10v10 nights? No, then why talk on something you don't know?
PvP right now has a huge paywall for ship building and the current mechanic killed what was good of S8 for it. It started with R&D powercreep and got worse with MK XIV and ridiculous upgrade costs and grind.
No longer is Organized PVP organized around PVP from the last time I was there.
What made it feel dead? For me, the over priced t6 ships, Lockbox spam, Power Creep, and I just got a general burned out feeling. How ever that's a feeling that even now has not gone away.
What should they do with PVP?
Makes me want to ask a question, with a question:
What happened to the Exploration missions?
They removed them, with promises to bring out an upgraded version.
I haven't yet seen any developmental notes on that from the news and dev blogs so far.
So maybe the Devs should do the same. They wouldn't be removing PVP.. right? Just putting it on a back burner to simmer while other PVE stuff more important was released..
I'm suuure they would release it again some day.. Maybe in 2375.. Or perhaps 2599..
Oh sorry, I think I got a little unhelpful there.. What I meant to say was: Soon™
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku