I don't know who over there came up with the lame idea to make the Iconians the sphere builders.
Maybe a sevitor race stabbed them in the backs and not only bombarded that planet, but hit other key nooks and crannies enough to make the go hide out in the equivalent of a panic room.
The main point I think here, other things aside, is that they have instant travel on both personal and colossal scale with; and this is also critical; zero requirement for a gate on the end of the transport.
So they were losing colonies and retreated to a single planet. Okay; sooo.... what stopped them from simply moving the entire planet?
Clearly they are able to if they can move an entire Dyson's shell.
Or at least the population of the planet?
They don't need to actually travel to any of the other galaxies, nor deal with the Galactic Barrier since they do a end run around that with their gate tech. They simply "arrive".
So while you may be able to smash fixed locations, such as planets, actually pinning down the Iconians on those planets would seem to be extremely difficult. That of course ignores the implies ability to move planets.
There's no evidence stating the Iconians weren't already established in the Andromeda Galaxy at the time of the bombardment.
There's also no evidence that Iconia was indeed their original homeworld that they evolved upon.
We could very easily learn that the Iconians originated in Andromeda and Iconia was their main colonization in the Milky Way.
If that turns out to be the case they would already have an established gate network back to the Andromeda galaxy.
Evacuating people wouldn't require massive sized gates.
there is also no proof to your own claim either, all we know is that the iconians have gateways here and there, it doesnt mean anything that they had gateways in andromeda. what if they had gateways in pinwheel, hoag's object or m58? that would of shot your whole opinion to pieces.
all we know is that the iconians have this world and they want it back. who knows what the real story is until cryptic releases it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
While its easy to point out that 200k years is more then enough time to rebuild, repopulate and spread back out.
We know very little about the Iconians. All we really know about them is that.
1.) They had and continue to have technology that allows them to teleport from one location to another with the use of a single gateway. Making them appear as if they are gods or demons to species with less technology.
2.) At some point, and its very unclear as to what lead to this and if it was the only battle. But the Iconians slaves and subjugated species rose up and slagged their homeworld.
Beyond this we know nothing about the Iconians besides their intentions of conquering the Milky Way.
Theres all sorts of things that could have happened to lead to them seeking a return. They could be near immortal and those planning to return were the ones that literally left almost a quarter of a million years ago.
They could also be dying out and feel returning to the Milky Way will somehow save them from this extinction. Their almost desperate attempts to destabilize the Milky Way Powers is an indication that they arent as powerful and as secure wherever they are as they would like us to believe. Just about everything theyve thrown at the AQ powers has been undermined and defeated. Their attempts to subvert the AQ Powers has failed miserably and the AQ powers have now also thwarted their attempts to destabilize the Delta Quadrant. They are now sending the best of their best. The Heralds. What does that tell you? Theyre desperate. The Iconians could of been planning their return for hundreds of years. They could have been playing this game for as long as the AQ Powers have been around. But everything as of late reeks of desperation and poorly employed tactics for a Species that seems ever patient.
Its also possible the Iconians are losing a war with another species or numerous species in the Andromeda Galaxy. And they feel the Milky Way is their last hope of surviving the eventual defeat they are facing. If the Iconians are a Galactic Power and not just a Quadrant Power. Their servitor races would look like an infestation on the galactic level. Theyd number in the trillions not just the billions. This would mean the Herald and their ships could easily blot out the sun in a Dyson Sphere.
Or maybe its all smoke and mirrors. Maybe this is a Wizard of Ozs situation. And those pulling the strings arent really the Iconians. Maybe the Herald are on the verge of discovering for many millenia they have been tricked and fooled into thinking their Gods still lived. And this is a last ditch effort by the puppeteer to convince the servitor races to continue to believe. Maybe the Herald have began to question why their Gods would wait so long to return and punish the non-believers. Why they would let the Milky Way Species continue to live after their rebellion.
Beyond this we know nothing about the Iconians besides their intentions of conquering the Milky Way.
not accurate, the iconians were mounting an invasion force to take back their home and surrounding area for the immediate future, they dont have the resources for a full out galactic wide purge, even with their numbers. thats why they have sevitor races, so they dont have to purge the galaxy by themselves with what they have. the iconians will need substantially more resources to pull off a major galactic wide invasion, plus extra resources to sustain the attack and additional allied support if possible.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Even with the "few Iconians". I don't think we saw them in full yet. There could be more, and our reports are misleading. We really hadn't been in their areas yet. So what do we know.
The Heralds that we are facing next. We still have the Solanae to deal with.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
not accurate, the iconians were mounting an invasion force to take back their home and surrounding area for the immediate future, they dont have the resources for a full out galactic wide purge, even with their numbers. thats why they have sevitor races, so they dont have to purge the galaxy by themselves with what they have. the iconians will need substantially more resources to pull off a major galactic wide invasion, plus extra resources to sustain the attack and additional allied support if possible.
Where did you pull this out of?
Im sorry but if it was just their homeworld and the immediate area around their homeworld. They wouldnt be interfering with the Delta Quadrant races and backing the Vaadwaur. You might want to take another look at the Milky Way Map to orient yourself with how far away those two sector blocks are from Iconia. Then theres the intelligence the Iconians were gathering on the Dominion. In their own words they stated that it was best that they avoided conflict with the Dominion for the time being. Meaning at some point they were weighing their options about outright taking the Gamma Quadrant along with the other three Quadrants.
As for resources. We have nothing to substantiate that they do or dont have the resources to wage galaxy wide warfare. This is a species that could appear anywhere they pleased with their gateways. A species that were able to escape genocide and have been doing Q knows what in the Andromeda Galaxy ever since.
The only one being inaccurate here is you. Roll another Delta Recruit and dont speed through the dialogue. You might learn something.
Im sorry but if it was just their homeworld and the immediate area around their homeworld. They wouldnt be interfering with the Delta Quadrant races and backing the Vaadwaur. You might want to take another look at the Milky Way Map to orient yourself with how far away those two sector blocks are from Iconia. Then theres the intelligence the Iconians were gathering on the Dominion. In their own words they stated that it was best that they avoided conflict with the Dominion for the time being. Meaning at some point they were weighing their options about outright taking the Gamma Quadrant along with the other three Quadrants.
As for resources. We have nothing to substantiate that they do or dont have the resources to wage galaxy wide warfare. This is a species that could appear anywhere they pleased with their gateways. A species that were able to escape genocide and have been doing Q knows what in the Andromeda Galaxy ever since.
The only one being inaccurate here is you. Roll another Delta Recruit and dont speed through the dialogue. You might learn something.
ive been through the dialogue enough to know whats going on.
the iconians were preparing to take iconia back, it was always their plan to take iconia back. it was established in sphere of influence in the subspace base that the iconians were observing their enemies and potential servitor allies, mainly the alliance. and coliseum on nopada where hakeev under orders from the iconians planned experimentations to learn how each species reacts under the threat of death using their main basic weakenesses and again on his ship along with sela to perform holographic conditioning of subjects to serve hakeev and distantly the iconians. all such techniques helped the iconians as hakeev stated just before his death, "the iconians know everything" or something to that effect.
so it was established the iconians had their plan for iconia and for their enemies by gathering intelligence on them, so they were prepared to attack. instead they used their allies to cause trouble to create an opportunity for the iconians later on, 8472 were specifically directed and unknownly by the iconians into doing their dirty work for them, mostly on federation assets early in 2409 and then later, the klingon homeworld and a few other worlds.
the elachi is a direct puppet race controlled by the iconians, their main purpose was to prevent the romulan republic from becoming a power judging by how hard they went after new romulus, they had allies in hakeev's group as well, that at least to me shows that the elachi were intent on keeping the republic down while the tal-shiar got what they wanted. the Tal-shiar fizzled out but the elachis main goal was the RR until they got their heads handed to them on a plate. hakeev wanted them to grow and become powerful as a servitor race so in his eyes he would be seen with some respect by the iconians, to the elachi though, they saw new troops and a food source. their main purpose from the looks of it is combat, and limited bio research that helped them. they are like quick expendable front unit troops, spam. easy to reproduce, easy to programme, easy to send back out to fight once more, especialyl with a enough bodies around to convert.
the bluegills were created specifically for infiltration and if needed pure brute strength and endurance, a few of these could cause a lot of chaos when linked to someone. they study and gather information on their enemies and a perfect for sabotage as well. who needs 8472 when you got your own bio-engineered creature under your full control? they were created by the iconians specifically for this purpose, the iconians had planned what the bluegills would do, once when they almost took starfleet down and again with the vaadwuar in order to boost their ability. so clearly their intent is known.
i could go on with their other 2 servitor races, the solanae and heralds but i think the point here is made, the iconians intent is that they have a clear plan on what they want to do, the intelligence to back it up and the amount of resources they is considerable. why dont you go through the storyline use your brain to draw conclusions.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Also, while they can travel to a place without a gate on the other side, it would be TERRIBLY stupid to jump to someplace like Andromeda, unless you had a gate there already, as you would otherwise be stuck there forever, something I doubt the Iconians wanted.
if you were one of the enslaved races or servitor races, sure. iconians were the gate builders. they could easily build a gate on the other side.
they had 200k years to do it.
i wonder if this year's q wonderland will have an iconian npc.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Why don't we just ask the Organians for help? Clearly they're on par with, if not superior to the Iconians. The Talosians might be helpful too.
I was also thinking about the Talosians but aren't they pretty much a dead species anyways? I mean that was the goal of keeping Pike around for reproduction purposes. Or did they achieve their goals later on? I don't remember the Talosians being mentioned in the later series.
Why don't we just ask the Organians for help? Clearly they're on par with, if not superior to the Iconians. The Talosians might be helpful too.
STO is pretty silent on what happened to the Organians. And per the article you just linked, they appear to dislike any contact that smacks of interference. Seems the Organians have their own version of the Prime Directive.
They interfered once before, possibly due to the foreknowledge that the Federation and the Klingon Empire would one day be allies. And possibly that interference was meant to preserve the capabilities of both factions to be able to act against the Iconians in 2410.
So maybe they're done interfering. Q is far more likely to interfere than they are.
But I seem to recall that even in that one redacted mission Q was wary of the Iconians. Not that they're necessarily a threat to the Q Continuum, but that the Iconians might have their own ways to resist whatever the Q might do to them.
Wish I could remember that dialogue from that mission. Likely Cryptic changed course, but there might still be some clues in there.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
It's entirely possible that the 'Iconians' are a ruse. Used by another party as a carrot AND a stick. A Paper Tiger if you pardon the reference.
Used to provoke fear, dissension and chaos to keep us off balance.
I have difficulty imagining an entire invasion would be triggered by the arrival of a few beings in the Andromeda Sphere. It's overkill for someone 'that' powerful, and out of character considering they've spent the last 100 years slowly manipulating us.
They have gateway technology that can span intergalactic distances. They did NOT have to move the sphere with potentially unlimited ships inside to a single point in space. From a strategic point of view - it's remarkably foolish.
They know by now we can generate red-matter weapons. We can create black holes. They may be able to move spheres with planning, but I doubt they can stop a black hole from consuming part of it. Or 100 if we really wanted to 'be sure'. Structural cascade failures on a system-wide structure would more than enough to deal with the 'thousands upon thousands' of ships necessary to blot out the sun.
I'm not saying that the Heralds are figments of my imagination. They're quite real. But I am slowly coming to the conclusion that everything is NOT what it seems.
It seems odd to me that the Organians would interfere between the Federation and the Klingons and then sit on the sidelines while a threat to the entire galaxy (and perhaps more) comes about. We should at least pop in to say hello to them. Perhaps they might amend their position this one time and save us a lot of trouble? :P
I personally think the ONLY reason the Organians got involved that one time was because the Federation and the Klingons were fighting over THEM.
They weren't total pacifists because they did nothing to stop conflict throughout the quadrant. They only enforced the Neutral Zone around Organia for a relatively short time, after all.
They really are repelled by the idea of violence, but the thought of imposing themselves on other sentient beings is equally distasteful to them. I suspect the Organians have removed themselves to some other plane of existence to protect their sensibilities and are happily oblivious to what's going on now.
Besides, you know and I know that the game makes concessions to drama that have nothing to do with logical outcomes.
Captain: "Organians, help! I'm being attacked by Iconians!"
Organian (appears): "I've disabled your gravity devices and your gateway network, except for the one back to the Andromeda galaxy. Off with you now."
Iconian: "Uh, yes sir. Sorry to bother you. We'll be going now."
Organian: "There you are, Captain. Oh, and I've taken the liberty of instantly creating your report for you. Why don't you go have a nice peaceful vacation on Risa now, like a good fellow?"
{END MISSION}
That sound like fun?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
This is the only dialog from the mission that talks about them IIRC.
Thanks for digging that up!
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
Maybe a sevitor race stabbed them in the backs and not only bombarded that planet, but hit other key nooks and crannies enough to make the go hide out in the equivalent of a panic room.
So, STO suggests they're just squatters?
So they were losing colonies and retreated to a single planet. Okay; sooo.... what stopped them from simply moving the entire planet?
Clearly they are able to if they can move an entire Dyson's shell.
Or at least the population of the planet?
They don't need to actually travel to any of the other galaxies, nor deal with the Galactic Barrier since they do a end run around that with their gate tech. They simply "arrive".
So while you may be able to smash fixed locations, such as planets, actually pinning down the Iconians on those planets would seem to be extremely difficult. That of course ignores the implies ability to move planets.
there is also no proof to your own claim either, all we know is that the iconians have gateways here and there, it doesnt mean anything that they had gateways in andromeda. what if they had gateways in pinwheel, hoag's object or m58? that would of shot your whole opinion to pieces.
all we know is that the iconians have this world and they want it back. who knows what the real story is until cryptic releases it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
We know very little about the Iconians. All we really know about them is that.
1.) They had and continue to have technology that allows them to teleport from one location to another with the use of a single gateway. Making them appear as if they are gods or demons to species with less technology.
2.) At some point, and its very unclear as to what lead to this and if it was the only battle. But the Iconians slaves and subjugated species rose up and slagged their homeworld.
Beyond this we know nothing about the Iconians besides their intentions of conquering the Milky Way.
Theres all sorts of things that could have happened to lead to them seeking a return. They could be near immortal and those planning to return were the ones that literally left almost a quarter of a million years ago.
They could also be dying out and feel returning to the Milky Way will somehow save them from this extinction. Their almost desperate attempts to destabilize the Milky Way Powers is an indication that they arent as powerful and as secure wherever they are as they would like us to believe. Just about everything theyve thrown at the AQ powers has been undermined and defeated. Their attempts to subvert the AQ Powers has failed miserably and the AQ powers have now also thwarted their attempts to destabilize the Delta Quadrant. They are now sending the best of their best. The Heralds. What does that tell you? Theyre desperate. The Iconians could of been planning their return for hundreds of years. They could have been playing this game for as long as the AQ Powers have been around. But everything as of late reeks of desperation and poorly employed tactics for a Species that seems ever patient.
Its also possible the Iconians are losing a war with another species or numerous species in the Andromeda Galaxy. And they feel the Milky Way is their last hope of surviving the eventual defeat they are facing. If the Iconians are a Galactic Power and not just a Quadrant Power. Their servitor races would look like an infestation on the galactic level. Theyd number in the trillions not just the billions. This would mean the Herald and their ships could easily blot out the sun in a Dyson Sphere.
Or maybe its all smoke and mirrors. Maybe this is a Wizard of Ozs situation. And those pulling the strings arent really the Iconians. Maybe the Herald are on the verge of discovering for many millenia they have been tricked and fooled into thinking their Gods still lived. And this is a last ditch effort by the puppeteer to convince the servitor races to continue to believe. Maybe the Herald have began to question why their Gods would wait so long to return and punish the non-believers. Why they would let the Milky Way Species continue to live after their rebellion.
not accurate, the iconians were mounting an invasion force to take back their home and surrounding area for the immediate future, they dont have the resources for a full out galactic wide purge, even with their numbers. thats why they have sevitor races, so they dont have to purge the galaxy by themselves with what they have. the iconians will need substantially more resources to pull off a major galactic wide invasion, plus extra resources to sustain the attack and additional allied support if possible.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The Heralds that we are facing next. We still have the Solanae to deal with.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Where did you pull this out of?
Im sorry but if it was just their homeworld and the immediate area around their homeworld. They wouldnt be interfering with the Delta Quadrant races and backing the Vaadwaur. You might want to take another look at the Milky Way Map to orient yourself with how far away those two sector blocks are from Iconia. Then theres the intelligence the Iconians were gathering on the Dominion. In their own words they stated that it was best that they avoided conflict with the Dominion for the time being. Meaning at some point they were weighing their options about outright taking the Gamma Quadrant along with the other three Quadrants.
As for resources. We have nothing to substantiate that they do or dont have the resources to wage galaxy wide warfare. This is a species that could appear anywhere they pleased with their gateways. A species that were able to escape genocide and have been doing Q knows what in the Andromeda Galaxy ever since.
The only one being inaccurate here is you. Roll another Delta Recruit and dont speed through the dialogue. You might learn something.
ive been through the dialogue enough to know whats going on.
the iconians were preparing to take iconia back, it was always their plan to take iconia back. it was established in sphere of influence in the subspace base that the iconians were observing their enemies and potential servitor allies, mainly the alliance. and coliseum on nopada where hakeev under orders from the iconians planned experimentations to learn how each species reacts under the threat of death using their main basic weakenesses and again on his ship along with sela to perform holographic conditioning of subjects to serve hakeev and distantly the iconians. all such techniques helped the iconians as hakeev stated just before his death, "the iconians know everything" or something to that effect.
so it was established the iconians had their plan for iconia and for their enemies by gathering intelligence on them, so they were prepared to attack. instead they used their allies to cause trouble to create an opportunity for the iconians later on, 8472 were specifically directed and unknownly by the iconians into doing their dirty work for them, mostly on federation assets early in 2409 and then later, the klingon homeworld and a few other worlds.
the elachi is a direct puppet race controlled by the iconians, their main purpose was to prevent the romulan republic from becoming a power judging by how hard they went after new romulus, they had allies in hakeev's group as well, that at least to me shows that the elachi were intent on keeping the republic down while the tal-shiar got what they wanted. the Tal-shiar fizzled out but the elachis main goal was the RR until they got their heads handed to them on a plate. hakeev wanted them to grow and become powerful as a servitor race so in his eyes he would be seen with some respect by the iconians, to the elachi though, they saw new troops and a food source. their main purpose from the looks of it is combat, and limited bio research that helped them. they are like quick expendable front unit troops, spam. easy to reproduce, easy to programme, easy to send back out to fight once more, especialyl with a enough bodies around to convert.
the bluegills were created specifically for infiltration and if needed pure brute strength and endurance, a few of these could cause a lot of chaos when linked to someone. they study and gather information on their enemies and a perfect for sabotage as well. who needs 8472 when you got your own bio-engineered creature under your full control? they were created by the iconians specifically for this purpose, the iconians had planned what the bluegills would do, once when they almost took starfleet down and again with the vaadwuar in order to boost their ability. so clearly their intent is known.
i could go on with their other 2 servitor races, the solanae and heralds but i think the point here is made, the iconians intent is that they have a clear plan on what they want to do, the intelligence to back it up and the amount of resources they is considerable. why dont you go through the storyline use your brain to draw conclusions.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
they had 200k years to do it.
i wonder if this year's q wonderland will have an iconian npc.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I was also thinking about the Talosians but aren't they pretty much a dead species anyways? I mean that was the goal of keeping Pike around for reproduction purposes. Or did they achieve their goals later on? I don't remember the Talosians being mentioned in the later series.
STO is pretty silent on what happened to the Organians. And per the article you just linked, they appear to dislike any contact that smacks of interference. Seems the Organians have their own version of the Prime Directive.
They interfered once before, possibly due to the foreknowledge that the Federation and the Klingon Empire would one day be allies. And possibly that interference was meant to preserve the capabilities of both factions to be able to act against the Iconians in 2410.
So maybe they're done interfering. Q is far more likely to interfere than they are.
But I seem to recall that even in that one redacted mission Q was wary of the Iconians. Not that they're necessarily a threat to the Q Continuum, but that the Iconians might have their own ways to resist whatever the Q might do to them.
Wish I could remember that dialogue from that mission. Likely Cryptic changed course, but there might still be some clues in there.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Used to provoke fear, dissension and chaos to keep us off balance.
I have difficulty imagining an entire invasion would be triggered by the arrival of a few beings in the Andromeda Sphere. It's overkill for someone 'that' powerful, and out of character considering they've spent the last 100 years slowly manipulating us.
They have gateway technology that can span intergalactic distances. They did NOT have to move the sphere with potentially unlimited ships inside to a single point in space. From a strategic point of view - it's remarkably foolish.
They know by now we can generate red-matter weapons. We can create black holes. They may be able to move spheres with planning, but I doubt they can stop a black hole from consuming part of it. Or 100 if we really wanted to 'be sure'. Structural cascade failures on a system-wide structure would more than enough to deal with the 'thousands upon thousands' of ships necessary to blot out the sun.
I'm not saying that the Heralds are figments of my imagination. They're quite real. But I am slowly coming to the conclusion that everything is NOT what it seems.
My Two Bits
Admiral Thrax
I personally think the ONLY reason the Organians got involved that one time was because the Federation and the Klingons were fighting over THEM.
They weren't total pacifists because they did nothing to stop conflict throughout the quadrant. They only enforced the Neutral Zone around Organia for a relatively short time, after all.
They really are repelled by the idea of violence, but the thought of imposing themselves on other sentient beings is equally distasteful to them. I suspect the Organians have removed themselves to some other plane of existence to protect their sensibilities and are happily oblivious to what's going on now.
Besides, you know and I know that the game makes concessions to drama that have nothing to do with logical outcomes.
Organian (appears): "I've disabled your gravity devices and your gateway network, except for the one back to the Andromeda galaxy. Off with you now."
Iconian: "Uh, yes sir. Sorry to bother you. We'll be going now."
Organian: "There you are, Captain. Oh, and I've taken the liberty of instantly creating your report for you. Why don't you go have a nice peaceful vacation on Risa now, like a good fellow?"
{END MISSION}
That sound like fun?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Thanks for digging that up!
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek