So basically the KDF captain who wrote the file sais: "Be alert, be ready, we have no chance, but death before dishonor!"
Inspiring.
Such is the Klingon way.
Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees! Death before dishonor! Make them pay in blood for every Klingon life they take! Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!
For there are no warriors like Klingon warriors, and nothing in this universe is stronger than the beating of two Klingon hearts!
After the first encounter with the Barrier. Federation ships crossed it without too much hassle multiple times (see the TOS Episode "By Any Other Name".) Just saying...;)
The kelvan modified enterprise to be able to cross the barrier.
Wait, what? For all we know the Iconians can snap their fingers and destroy an entire fleet. We've barely even seen their ships, much less fired upon them. How the hell are we supposed to generate war strategies to fight something we know next to nothing about? We just need to wait for a battle and analize the situation.
For all we know the iconians are fat, brain dead morons ala the humans from Wall-E, and the thing that came through the portal at the peace treaty was a different form of herald.
I'm not saying that's likely, but we have no actual in game evidence that was an iconian and not a herald. So for all we know it might be.
Hell, the iconians might be extinct for tens of thousands of years with the heralds running the show via genetic memory and last known instructions (ala the apu war), just claim!ing they are acting on the orders of the iconians.
Wish Star Trek, and Star Trek online would just ret-con the barrier out, perhaps as a localized event (it could still be huge on a galactic scale). Have always dislike that concept.
Now now Virusdancer. Soon you'll start comparing Vulcans to Elves! Romulans(or maybe Remans more aptly in terms of lore) to Drow! Caitains to uh.. wait. This is getting weird.
Vulcans would ressemble a lot with elves, if you put some elfic clothes on them and elfic weapons on them, i.e. arc and bow. But since it is an Star Trek, yeah... I have to agree with virusdance. It seens an unexpected NPC design for a Sci-Fi MMO. I particularly did not liked this design. And that is ok. The same way, there will be people who will love them. And that is ok as well. It is bound to have peolple liking or disliking a piece of art work because it is a subjective thing. And someone not liking a particular thing does not mean they do not recognize the hard work of Devs (I can't imagine the amount of work it is to introduce a whole new faction of NPC's).
Now, It is just Devs work see how the player base receive this and adjust future content accordingly. And there is no way to you guys see if we are liking or not if we say: Yay! We liked it!!! Or: Yicks!!! It is bad! So, virusdancer commentary seens appropriate.
BTW, when do we get to see in more detail their ships???
Pre-forum change name: Captain Wilhelm Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
Because it isn't just their home planet they are after.
Clearly from the spheres, the "homeworld" really doesn't matter to them. Conquering and revenge seem to be their goal.
Makes me wonder who gathered together to defeat them previously.
In canon, no one is known. There are very few possibilities from existing races. The bajorans, though it is unlikely. Their civilization goes back to way before the iconians (more than twice as old actually), almost as old as the t'kon. But they werent space farers.
The talosians are a quite likely possibility (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Talosian). Not too far away from iconia and had become warp capable before the iconians Empire was founded, but retreated underground sometime after it fell.
The unknown makers of the hirogen subspace array are another likely member of the first coalition (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hirogen_communications_network). As it dates to about the right era, and connects the whole galaxy. Might have been used in the rebellion, though it is half as old, that's still far closer than most things in the trek verse.
Stretching a little there's also the sky spirits (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sky_Spirit). We know they could cross the galaxy, and had warp capabilities 1/4 of the way as old as the iconians.
I think it'd be awesome if gomtuu's people were involved ( http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gomtuu). Gomtuu is over 10,000 years old, so only a few generations would be needed to have some of them around during iconians heyday.
It is possible but unlikely that the iconians were the Klingon gods they slew. I would enjoy this one.
The organians were definitely around, but I suspect they avoided the conflict. They would be the most logical source for info on the iconians. But I doubt any of it would be helpful militarily.
Anyone else is just starting to get too far post rebellion.
So the devs can make up new races (ala the deferi). Or play with the gaps in canon.
Contact with the barrier has been known to give mere mortals almost god-like power. What terrible wonders can a race that can cross it at will be capable of?
There are rumors that when the Iconians left the Solanae sphere, their destination was the Andromeda galaxy. If so, they have the ability to escape the Galactic Barrier.
Contact with the barrier has been known to give mere mortals almost god-like power. What terrible wonders can a race that can cross it at will be capable of?
oh god i'm gonna puke
cryptic please stop referencing terrible TOS material and just retcon the **** out of it
Gavin, I was wondering about the same. Though crossing the barrier and the transit to Andromeda, as well as however their portals work and how that technology interacts with the Galactic Barrier, as well as their time in Andromeda itself, may have greatly changed the Iconians into something that they weren't 200,000 years ago.
Heck, it's entirely possible that the Iconians of back then really weren't as malevolent... but passing through the Barrier changed them the way it did others, and turned them into self-proclaimed gods.
I'm hoping for an event that consists of something like the following in a player/Iconian exchange.
"We were a peaceful race! We sought only to guide our lessers to greater heights. We helped them forge great wonders of the galaxy - what you call "Dyson spheres". We sought to produce particles that could power their lives for an eternity, and all it would cost was a few dozen generations of labor. We were so close to letting the children walk on their own... we were so proud. But they had no patience. They turned on us, slaughtered us. We were defenseless. So we fled, our numbers dwindled almost to nonexistence. And we planned. And we waited. And we grew stronger. We set out to quell the errant children, weaken them. They... you are dangerous. You defy your betters even now. But this time we are prepared. We have learned war from watching the children. We will defeat you at your own childish game, as it seems it is all you know."
Well-meaning and unintentionally malevolent by virtue of being so advanced as to be out of touch with the peoples they were trying to help. Not helping matters is their warped sense of time and distance, making what to us is a long time seem trivial to them.
So this is it huh? The end of the story, the end of the game.
I mean, it pretty much has to be. The Iconians (IE the Ori) are pretty much as powerful as you can get on the corporeal planes, and now we're going to war with them.
We're at the highest achievable rank. (Fleet Admiral)
We're on first name basis with everyone who is anyone.
We're going to war with, for all intents and purposes, Titans.
So what could possibly have any meaning in STO after this? This is not a conflict that can be resolved with both parties walking away after a handshake. One side or the other will be destroyed.
If Starfleet / Klingon Empire / Romulan Republic survive victorious, who could we EVER fight beyond this point that would be even half the challenge?
Welcome to the FINAL season of STO.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Regarding the art of Heralds: I was already against 'dinosaurs with frakking lazors on their heads', so what do you think I'm thinking of these heralds? :rolleyes:
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
removing ****ty part in a universe is common place among other franchise especially when it come to ****ty and just outright sexist/racist writing like in TOS
I'm hoping for an event that consists of something like the following in a player/Iconian exchange.
"We were a peaceful race! We sought only to guide our lessers to greater heights. We helped them forge great wonders of the galaxy - what you call "Dyson spheres". We sought to produce particles that could power their lives for an eternity, and all it would cost was a few dozen generations of labor. We were so close to letting the children walk on their own... we were so proud. But they had no patience. They turned on us, slaughtered us. We were defenseless. So we fled, our numbers dwindled almost to nonexistence. And we planned. And we waited. And we grew stronger. We set out to quell the errant children, weaken them. They... you are dangerous. You defy your betters even now. But this time we are prepared. We have learned war from watching the children. We will defeat you at your own childish game, as it seems it is all you know."
Well-meaning and unintentionally malevolent by virtue of being so advanced as to be out of touch with the peoples they were trying to help. Not helping matters is their warped sense of time and distance, making what to us is a long time seem trivial to them.
Two relevant quotes to support your idea:
there is more evil in the lesser ones than in the greater; even as you know from the deeds of those who sought to deliver you into my hands, whilst I myself harboured no wish to shatter you, and would indeed have helped you hither long ago had I not been elsewhere busy, and certain that you would yourself find the way... <snip> Hei! Aa-shanta ’nygh! You are off! Send back earth’s gods to their haunts on unknown Kadath, and pray to all space that you may never meet me in my thousand other forms. Farewell, Randolph Carter, and beware; for I am Nyarlathotep, the Crawling Chaos!
From "the dreamquest of unknown kadath"
“Randolph Carter,”IT seemed to say, “MY manifestations on your planet’s extension, the Ancient Ones, have sent you as one who would lately have returned to small lands of dream which he had lost, yet who with greater freedom has risen to greater and nobler desires and curiosities. You wished to sail up golden Oukranos, to search out forgotten ivory cities in orchid-heavy Kled, and to reign on the opal throne of Ilek-Vad, whose fabulous towers and numberless domes rise mighty toward a single red star in a firmament alien to your earth and to all matter. Now, with the passing of two Gates, you wish loftier things. You would not flee like a child from a scene disliked to a dream beloved, but would plunge like a man into that last and inmost of secrets which lies behind all scenes and dreams.
“What you wish, I have found good; and I am ready to grant that which I have granted eleven times only to beings of your planet—five times only to those you call men, or those resembling them. I am ready to shew you the Ultimate Mystery, to look on which is to blast a feeble spirit. Yet before you gaze full at that last and first of secrets you may still wield a free choice, and return if you will through the two Gates with the Veil still unrent before your eyes.”
Randoph Carter meeting yog-sotthoth (unnamed in the text, but identified as such by Lovecraft in his letters), from "through the gates with the silver key, chapter 4".
The point of these being, if two of the most often described vile entities from the lovecraftian mythos are actually this far from the way people usually describe them, it is entirely possible that the behavior of the iconians and that of their servants is very different as well.
For example, nyarlathotep asked his servants to bring him Carter and they kept trying to kill Carter. Mind you, it was all the setup for a majorly petty trolling, but still, the point stands.
Call me old fashioned, but I would have preferred the direction of STO going towards having at least four, completed stand alone factions (Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians) before venturing out to new content, such as the Iconians. It seems like STO has only two real factions, with only one real path for all. I would have preferred more of an open sandbox of choose your own adventure, and we will supply the factions, races, costumes, and ships you have come to love in Star Trek.
Oh well. On better news I have finally made the leap. and am playing SW:TOR and loving it. Voice overs on all content, for both characters your talking to, and your own character. On top of this, you actually get to make choices, that differ in end action. Not three choices, that only allow you to make the same decision, and not voiced over.
cryptic please stop referencing terrible TOS material and just retcon the **** out of it
Seriously. Cryptic seems drawn like a moth to a flame to some of the worst parts of trek, the sort of stuff a lot of people just prefer to sweep under the rug and pretend never happened.
Nimbus, and now *this*?
And it's not like they have beholden themselves to the shows in the past or anything. I mean, look at the direction they took the Romulans in...
At this rate, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the 'break the warp speed limit, turn into salamander' thing returns. Or perhaps the 'Women can't be starship captains' from TOS thing. Ugh, seriously Cryptic? The Galactic Barrier of all things?
Or perhaps the 'Women can't be starship captains' from TOS thing. Ugh, seriously Cryptic?(
Um, unless they kill two out of the three flagships next season I doubt that's going to be a problem.
As for the gist of your post, its ST canon. I think this thread is the first time anyone on the internet has decided that keeping to it is a problem.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'm guessing there'll be no less than the usual 9 hybridized starships that integrate Iconian tech once the new season comes out, along with an Iconian or Herald lockbox with salvaged Iconian ships. What I'd like to start seeing is a push towards larger carriers and battleships for each class. It makes sense after all, to increase the use of drones against an enemy when you've lost a lot of manpower thanks to constant wars.
Honestly, the heralds arent that tough, MK XIV gear can kill one in just 2 min.....:) no lie...but if you DONT have Mk XIV gear then do as sela says and RUUUUUUUUN!
Talking about the Uneasy Allies mission? Didn't realize that Herald could be killed. It just kept running away, running away, running away...no Mk XIV gear, no Ground Personal Traits, and it was just...meh, it just kept running away. "Stay and die!" Nope, it just kept disappearing to reappear until I finally just left. I was kind of hoping that when it returned each time it would be with more of them and they'd slaughter me for my foolishness...but it just kept running away.
yeah just like the romulan/fed war was fought with nukes and non ftl ships
oh wait it got retconed because it was too awful
Or (like I mentioned) Women not being able to captain Starfleet starships in TOS...which was never again mentioned in Trek again....for obvious reasons.
Same with turning into Salamanders when you go too fast at warp.
Just because it's Trek doesn't mean it's good. Seems to be a good enough reason for Cryptic to throw any particular thing into the game though. I mean, we do have an entire adventure zone/episode arc devoted to the setting of the single most reviled Star Trek movies, after all.
Can we please have the Herald wear and staff as Herald Lockbox ground stuff?
And the Herald armor as Lobi stuff?
And the Herald Dreadnought as a Promotional, the Herald Battleship as a Lockbox, and the Herald Cruiser as Lobi ships?
I have currency (in Dil, EC, and cold hard cash I've set aside for gaming purposes that can be put towards Zen or Protmotional Boxes) ready and waiting. I know you want my money. Just make it happen and you shall have it.
Contact with the barrier has been known to give mere mortals almost god-like power. What terrible wonders can a race that can cross it at will be capable of?
In 200,000 years I'm pretty confident in saying that a population can thrive, even in half that time. Why are we suppose to believe that in 200,000 they haven't grown in numbers again?
Off hand I'd say because it will make it easier to throw them under the bus when the time comes .
... just like the Undine were with the first episode of DR ... -- remember the Undine , the once upon a time big bad ESD destroyer's and Quo'nos attackers ...
Comments
Such is the Klingon way.
Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees! Death before dishonor! Make them pay in blood for every Klingon life they take! Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam!
For there are no warriors like Klingon warriors, and nothing in this universe is stronger than the beating of two Klingon hearts!
The kelvan modified enterprise to be able to cross the barrier.
For all we know the iconians are fat, brain dead morons ala the humans from Wall-E, and the thing that came through the portal at the peace treaty was a different form of herald.
I'm not saying that's likely, but we have no actual in game evidence that was an iconian and not a herald. So for all we know it might be.
Hell, the iconians might be extinct for tens of thousands of years with the heralds running the show via genetic memory and last known instructions (ala the apu war), just claim!ing they are acting on the orders of the iconians.
Because it isn't just their home planet they are after.
Clearly from the spheres, the "homeworld" really doesn't matter to them. Conquering and revenge seem to be their goal.
Makes me wonder who gathered together to defeat them previously.
Vulcans would ressemble a lot with elves, if you put some elfic clothes on them and elfic weapons on them, i.e. arc and bow. But since it is an Star Trek, yeah... I have to agree with virusdance. It seens an unexpected NPC design for a Sci-Fi MMO. I particularly did not liked this design. And that is ok. The same way, there will be people who will love them. And that is ok as well. It is bound to have peolple liking or disliking a piece of art work because it is a subjective thing. And someone not liking a particular thing does not mean they do not recognize the hard work of Devs (I can't imagine the amount of work it is to introduce a whole new faction of NPC's).
Now, It is just Devs work see how the player base receive this and adjust future content accordingly. And there is no way to you guys see if we are liking or not if we say: Yay! We liked it!!! Or: Yicks!!! It is bad! So, virusdancer commentary seens appropriate.
BTW, when do we get to see in more detail their ships???
Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
Does STO not use book cannon?
If it does, they got the part about the barrier giving powers wrong then.
In canon, no one is known. There are very few possibilities from existing races. The bajorans, though it is unlikely. Their civilization goes back to way before the iconians (more than twice as old actually), almost as old as the t'kon. But they werent space farers.
The old ones of exo iii (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Exo_III), but again unlikely as they lived below ground and were likely extinct already.
The talosians are a quite likely possibility (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Talosian). Not too far away from iconia and had become warp capable before the iconians Empire was founded, but retreated underground sometime after it fell.
The unknown makers of the hirogen subspace array are another likely member of the first coalition (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hirogen_communications_network). As it dates to about the right era, and connects the whole galaxy. Might have been used in the rebellion, though it is half as old, that's still far closer than most things in the trek verse.
Stretching a little there's also the sky spirits (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sky_Spirit). We know they could cross the galaxy, and had warp capabilities 1/4 of the way as old as the iconians.
I think it'd be awesome if gomtuu's people were involved ( http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gomtuu). Gomtuu is over 10,000 years old, so only a few generations would be needed to have some of them around during iconians heyday.
It is possible but unlikely that the iconians were the Klingon gods they slew. I would enjoy this one.
The organians were definitely around, but I suspect they avoided the conflict. They would be the most logical source for info on the iconians. But I doubt any of it would be helpful militarily.
Anyone else is just starting to get too far post rebellion.
So the devs can make up new races (ala the deferi). Or play with the gaps in canon.
Books are not cannon. But sto borrows a few things (Vesta, the name undine, etc) from some of them.
Contact with the barrier ? Mere mortals with god-like power ... sounds familiar ...
TOS episode : Where No Mans Gone Before
Gary Mitchell !!!
cryptic please stop referencing terrible TOS material and just retcon the **** out of it
I'm hoping for an event that consists of something like the following in a player/Iconian exchange.
"We were a peaceful race! We sought only to guide our lessers to greater heights. We helped them forge great wonders of the galaxy - what you call "Dyson spheres". We sought to produce particles that could power their lives for an eternity, and all it would cost was a few dozen generations of labor. We were so close to letting the children walk on their own... we were so proud. But they had no patience. They turned on us, slaughtered us. We were defenseless. So we fled, our numbers dwindled almost to nonexistence. And we planned. And we waited. And we grew stronger. We set out to quell the errant children, weaken them. They... you are dangerous. You defy your betters even now. But this time we are prepared. We have learned war from watching the children. We will defeat you at your own childish game, as it seems it is all you know."
Well-meaning and unintentionally malevolent by virtue of being so advanced as to be out of touch with the peoples they were trying to help. Not helping matters is their warped sense of time and distance, making what to us is a long time seem trivial to them.
This is the worst idea.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I mean, it pretty much has to be. The Iconians (IE the Ori) are pretty much as powerful as you can get on the corporeal planes, and now we're going to war with them.
We're at the highest achievable rank. (Fleet Admiral)
We're on first name basis with everyone who is anyone.
We're going to war with, for all intents and purposes, Titans.
So what could possibly have any meaning in STO after this? This is not a conflict that can be resolved with both parties walking away after a handshake. One side or the other will be destroyed.
If Starfleet / Klingon Empire / Romulan Republic survive victorious, who could we EVER fight beyond this point that would be even half the challenge?
Welcome to the FINAL season of STO.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
The writer, uh, uh... finds a way.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
how so?
removing ****ty part in a universe is common place among other franchise especially when it come to ****ty and just outright sexist/racist writing like in TOS
From "the dreamquest of unknown kadath"
Randoph Carter meeting yog-sotthoth (unnamed in the text, but identified as such by Lovecraft in his letters), from "through the gates with the silver key, chapter 4".
The point of these being, if two of the most often described vile entities from the lovecraftian mythos are actually this far from the way people usually describe them, it is entirely possible that the behavior of the iconians and that of their servants is very different as well.
For example, nyarlathotep asked his servants to bring him Carter and they kept trying to kill Carter. Mind you, it was all the setup for a majorly petty trolling, but still, the point stands.
Call me old fashioned, but I would have preferred the direction of STO going towards having at least four, completed stand alone factions (Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians) before venturing out to new content, such as the Iconians. It seems like STO has only two real factions, with only one real path for all. I would have preferred more of an open sandbox of choose your own adventure, and we will supply the factions, races, costumes, and ships you have come to love in Star Trek.
Oh well. On better news I have finally made the leap. and am playing SW:TOR and loving it. Voice overs on all content, for both characters your talking to, and your own character. On top of this, you actually get to make choices, that differ in end action. Not three choices, that only allow you to make the same decision, and not voiced over.
Nimbus, and now *this*?
And it's not like they have beholden themselves to the shows in the past or anything. I mean, look at the direction they took the Romulans in...
At this rate, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the 'break the warp speed limit, turn into salamander' thing returns. Or perhaps the 'Women can't be starship captains' from TOS thing. Ugh, seriously Cryptic? The Galactic Barrier of all things?
Um, unless they kill two out of the three flagships next season I doubt that's going to be a problem.
As for the gist of your post, its ST canon. I think this thread is the first time anyone on the internet has decided that keeping to it is a problem.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
yeah just like the romulan/fed war was fought with nukes and non ftl ships
oh wait it got retconed because it was too awful
We'll be fighting malicious members of the Q continuum of course!
Check out my foundry mission "The Writers of History".
Talking about the Uneasy Allies mission? Didn't realize that Herald could be killed. It just kept running away, running away, running away...no Mk XIV gear, no Ground Personal Traits, and it was just...meh, it just kept running away. "Stay and die!" Nope, it just kept disappearing to reappear until I finally just left. I was kind of hoping that when it returned each time it would be with more of them and they'd slaughter me for my foolishness...but it just kept running away.
Same with turning into Salamanders when you go too fast at warp.
Just because it's Trek doesn't mean it's good. Seems to be a good enough reason for Cryptic to throw any particular thing into the game though. I mean, we do have an entire adventure zone/episode arc devoted to the setting of the single most reviled Star Trek movies, after all.
1.) as much as I like Q-Squared, the "Novelverse" is not canon
2.) Also, If cannons were canon, I'd Fire a canon cannon at people who spell canon "cannon".
And the Herald armor as Lobi stuff?
And the Herald Dreadnought as a Promotional, the Herald Battleship as a Lockbox, and the Herald Cruiser as Lobi ships?
I have currency (in Dil, EC, and cold hard cash I've set aside for gaming purposes that can be put towards Zen or Protmotional Boxes) ready and waiting. I know you want my money. Just make it happen and you shall have it.
I will admit, I like the look of the Heralds. They have an almost Warhammer 40k vibe about them.
All we need now is some Tau-esque battlesuits for Team Good Guy.
Me no likely .
... and not just because of my reservations about military intelligence ...
Off hand I'd say because it will make it easier to throw them under the bus when the time comes .
... just like the Undine were with the first episode of DR ... -- remember the Undine , the once upon a time big bad ESD destroyer's and Quo'nos attackers ...