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Underground Lunar Colonies

lomax6996lomax6996 Member Posts: 512 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Ten Forward
Combine this with other research on the Moon. For instance seismographic readings of the Moon following quakes and impacts have observed the Moon "ringing like a bell", according to some researchers. This has led to some speculation that the Moon is hollow. While not likely hollow it may well be honeycombed and such chambers as exist would not likely be in vacuum as that would inhibit such waves. It's more likely those chambers are filled with some kind of atmosphere or, possibly, water. In Sept. of 2009 researchers revealed that their observations indicate there is a LOT more water on the Moon than anyone suspected.

If even some of these chambers contain lakes or oceans of water they must be impermeable. If they are others likely are, as well. Such chambers could be slowly "terraformed". Initial colonies in these chambers would be domed while the chambers were pumped full of carbon dioxide. We know that Lunar soil is excellent for growing plants. Plant growth would, eventually, provide oxygen whereupon cities could grow domeless.

Imagine a thriving human colony under the Lunar surface fed by underground oceans... :D


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150404215343.htm
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Post edited by lomax6996 on

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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lomax6996 wrote: »
    Combine this with other research on the Moon. For instance seismographic readings of the Moon following quakes and impacts have observed the Moon "ringing like a bell", according to some researchers. This has led to some speculation that the Moon is hollow. While not likely hollow it may well be honeycombed and such chambers as exist would not likely be in vacuum as that would inhibit such waves. It's more likely those chambers are filled with some kind of atmosphere or, possibly, water. In Sept. of 2009 researchers revealed that their observations indicate there is a LOT more water on the Moon than anyone suspected.

    If even some of these chambers contain lakes or oceans of water they must be impermeable. If they are others likely are, as well. Such chambers could be slowly "terraformed". Initial colonies in these chambers would be domed while the chambers were pumped full of carbon dioxide. We know that Lunar soil is excellent for growing plants. Plant growth would, eventually, provide oxygen whereupon cities could grow domeless.

    Imagine a thriving human colony under the Lunar surface fed by underground oceans... :D


    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150404215343.htm

    prove it, until then its just another opinion without anything to back it up.
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  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited April 2015
    Well of course there are atmospheric chambers and lakes. How else could the Selenites survive? ;)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    prove it, until then its just another opinion without anything to back it up.

    But it does make sense for any lunar colony to be underground even if there is no truth to the honeycombing effect. Having a decent layer of lunar soil between the colony and the moon's atmosphere would reduce the amount of radiation and meteors that hit the colony.

    In Uchuu Kyoudai (Space Brothers) which is a manga about space exploration set about 10 years from now, they set up a moon base and then throw about a foot of lunar soil on the moon base for protection. Another good idea they had was mapping the lunar surface and having the map show up on the window of a lunar rover so astronauts don't go over a cliff.
  • zyriounzyrioun Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    But it does make sense for any lunar colony to be underground even if there is no truth to the honeycombing effect. Having a decent layer of lunar soil between the colony and the moon's atmosphere would reduce the amount of radiation and meteors that hit the colony.

    In Uchuu Kyoudai (Space Brothers) which is a manga about space exploration set about 10 years from now, they set up a moon base and then throw about a foot of lunar soil on the moon base for protection. Another good idea they had was mapping the lunar surface and having the map show up on the window of a lunar rover so astronauts don't go over a cliff.

    That would generally act against the various points of a lunar colony which would be to mine helium-3 from the surface, and refuel and repair spacecraft. Besides you'd want surface colonies so that more money would go into research for radiation-countering construction materials and methodologies. There may be portions of colonies underground, naturally, but overall i'd think most of it would be on the surface, especially since it is extremely unhealthy for humans to go prolonged periods without exposure to the sun(this also has an effect on mental health as well).
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    zyrioun wrote: »
    That would generally act against the various points of a lunar colony which would be to mine helium-3 from the surface, and refuel and repair spacecraft. Besides you'd want surface colonies so that more money would go into research for radiation-countering construction materials and methodologies. There may be portions of colonies underground, naturally, but overall i'd think most of it would be on the surface, especially since it is extremely unhealthy for humans to go prolonged periods without exposure to the sun(this also has an effect on mental health as well).

    How does an underground colony prevent mining helium-3 from the surface and refuel and repair spacecraft? An underground colony would only contain the living quarters of the colonists, agricultural areas, recreational areas, etc. There is nothing preventing a colonist from going to the surface to mine or repair some spacecraft. Obviously, industrial areas would be on the surface while residential areas will be underground since the colony would want a chemical leak to from a factory to escape into space rather than in their air supply.

    So the main point of a surface colony over an underground colony is to promote research into radiation-countering construction materials and methodologies? Technology is known to fail while lots of dirt is very good at blocking radiation for long periods of time and cheap. Domes can easily break to a meteor or terrorism, shields waste a lot of energy and turn off when the energy is turned off, and special construction materials can be very expensive. Radiation-countering construction materials and methodologies would be limited to the industrial areas not to residential areas since nothing is safer and more resilient than a ton of dirt between the colonists and space.

    Humans are designed for the Earth not for the Moon. We never had astronauts stay on the Moon for longer than three days in total. So the research for prolonged exposure to sunlight without an atmosphere is not complete. So it could be extremely unhealthy for humans to stay on the surface of the moon. Besides, it is relatively easy to simulate sunlight. It is just a matter of emitting light at the right frequencies and intensities.

    Edit: It is orbital cities and spaceships that will influence the research on radiation-countering construction materials and methodologies not lunar colonies since the underground colony concept is far too attractive for colonies on other planets and moons without a decent atmosphere.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,459 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    There is no liquid water in or on the Moon. It can't exist in a vacuum, and mere rock won't hold in an atmosphere for very long.

    However, there are serious proposals for establishing habitats in lunar lava tubes, to protect the inhabitants from radiation and meteoroids. Such a cavern could, if one wished, be reinforced and lined with plastic, then filled with air brought from Earth (or manufactured in orbit, assuming there's enough water ice to make oxygen from - nitrogen can always be shipped in from Earth). Surface access for surface mining and spaceport access, of course, would be through the standard airlock.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    There is no liquid water in or on the Moon. It can't exist in a vacuum, and mere rock won't hold in an atmosphere for very long.

    However, there are serious proposals for establishing habitats in lunar lava tubes, to protect the inhabitants from radiation and meteoroids. Such a cavern could, if one wished, be reinforced and lined with plastic, then filled with air brought from Earth (or manufactured in orbit, assuming there's enough water ice to make oxygen from - nitrogen can always be shipped in from Earth). Surface access for surface mining and spaceport access, of course, would be through the standard airlock.
    Actually... lunar soil contains enough oxides that you could smelt it and make something breathable from the vapor it gave off.
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  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Yes. If any element is hard to get on the Moon it's plain old hydrogen, which would mostly be extracted from water ice. Oxygen, carbon, and most heavier elements are abundant enough that they can be extracted from the soil if you have enough energy (solar or nuclear).
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    There is no liquid water in or on the Moon. It can't exist in a vacuum, and mere rock won't hold in an atmosphere for very long.
    .

    That may not be completley correct there is studies currently underway to see if there is permafrost locked in the crater on the moon borught there by impacts from ancient commets and meteors.

    So far there has been several infrared scans of some of the deep craters on the moon that seems to suggest there indeed may be permafrost on the moon.

    However until we get boots on the ground there we wont know for sure if it is or not but i wouldnt rule out the existence of permafrost within the darkened craters of the moon.
  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Yes, but that's ice. jonsills was saying that water can't remain liquid in a vacuum--without no pressure, it would go straight to vapor at its melting temperature.
  • lomax6996lomax6996 Member Posts: 512 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    There is no liquid water in or on the Moon. It can't exist in a vacuum, and mere rock won't hold in an atmosphere for very long.

    However, there are serious proposals for establishing habitats in lunar lava tubes, to protect the inhabitants from radiation and meteoroids. Such a cavern could, if one wished, be reinforced and lined with plastic, then filled with air brought from Earth (or manufactured in orbit, assuming there's enough water ice to make oxygen from - nitrogen can always be shipped in from Earth). Surface access for surface mining and spaceport access, of course, would be through the standard airlock.

    Not strictly accurate...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_water
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lomax6996 wrote: »

    How is it not accurate? jonsills mentioned that there is no liquid water on the moon. There is water ice and water vapor on the moon, but no liquid water as far as we know. If the moon generates geothermal energy like the Earth, then it is theoretical possible for water to exist kilometers below the Moon's surface, but we don't have the technology to confirm the existence of liquid water at those depths below the moon's surface.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,459 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lomax6996 wrote: »
    Strictly accurate. Read it again. Read especially what it says about the state in which water and related hydroxyl groups can be found on/in Luna.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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