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Ultimate Fed Tank Build
tiekosora
Member Posts: 325 Arc User
Looking for some advice to build a tank. In the past I have focused on science captains and ships for the most part, or with torpedo boats on my Rom and KDF. Here's what I have and some questions I would like answered:
* Fed Talaxian Engineer - What traits would work best for tanking, without going after T6 ship traits.
* Ship Selection - I am going to stick to cruisers during the grind, and I do have the Galaxy 3 Pack. Assuming cruisers are THE way to go to build an exceptional tank, should I stick to the fleet version of the Galaxy-X or go with the Avenger or the new T6 Command Carrier once I get to that point?
* Reputation Sets - Is there a single rep set that is exceptional for tanking, or should I stick strictly to advanced fleet gear (deflector/shields/engine/core). I'm not looking to grind marks for all the factions ad nauseum, so sticking to ONE faction is preferred.
* DOFF suggestions - I never really played the DOFF game too much. Suggestions on DOFFs that benefit a beam boat with tanking in mind, would be appreciated.
* Engineer Bridge Officer skill MUST-HAVES - Obviously at higher tiers, cruisers will be able to slot an engineer bridge officer that can use EPtS3, so that is a given. Additional suggestions appreciated.
* Science Bridge Officer skill MUST-HAVES - I'm thinking Hazard Team and Science team as being helpful, but with the focus on tanking and with potentially limted skills for science, what is an absolute must?
* Tactical Bridge Officer skill MUST-HAVES - Again, same with Science, facing limited skill slots, what is an absolute must to have? I will not be using torpedoes, strictly beam arrays, so the highest version of BFAW will definitely be slotted.
* Engineer Consoles - Should I stack energy/kinetic resists, or go for specific energy types? Will I benefit by assigning a console slot to an RCS console?
* Science Consoles - I would venture a guess that a max shield capacity console and a regen boost console would be slotted, but what about the consoles that boost crew survivability?
* Tactical Consoles - Planning on stacking consoles based on the energy weapon type I use. Is there still diminishing returns for using more than three of the same consoles?
* Gimmick Consoles - I will not likely be using the cloaking console, nor the saucer separation console while flying a Galaxy. But, I know some ships from the C-Store do have useful gimmick consoles. I have access to the Steamrunner pack, and that console I use more frequently than others. I imagine I will be using it as a dedicated part of my build, to help boost the survivability of my team, unless there is compelling reasoning to skip it.
* Energy Weapon Type - I am not going to a max CritH/CritD build, so I would guess that anti-protons are not needed. I would imagine that I am going for advanced fleet weapons, unless there is a better pairing of weapon type with a specific rep set should I devote the time to grind that out. Seeing how the end goal is not to be a max DPS machine, what energy type would be most beneficial? Phasers make my short list, as do tetryons and disruptors. What would be the best path regarding weapons - types from the reputation stores, fleet versions of the three I listed above, or crafted (I have level 15 Beams R&D on one captain).
So yeah it looks like a tall order. I could search for answers to all these questions, but often the information you find is dated and no longer applicable. This is for a Delta Recruit captain. If you are going to provide a response for a specific question or two, I would appreciate it if you would quote that specific question, but it's not a demand.
Again, I would like to thank anybody that responds for your assistance.
* Fed Talaxian Engineer - What traits would work best for tanking, without going after T6 ship traits.
* Ship Selection - I am going to stick to cruisers during the grind, and I do have the Galaxy 3 Pack. Assuming cruisers are THE way to go to build an exceptional tank, should I stick to the fleet version of the Galaxy-X or go with the Avenger or the new T6 Command Carrier once I get to that point?
* Reputation Sets - Is there a single rep set that is exceptional for tanking, or should I stick strictly to advanced fleet gear (deflector/shields/engine/core). I'm not looking to grind marks for all the factions ad nauseum, so sticking to ONE faction is preferred.
* DOFF suggestions - I never really played the DOFF game too much. Suggestions on DOFFs that benefit a beam boat with tanking in mind, would be appreciated.
* Engineer Bridge Officer skill MUST-HAVES - Obviously at higher tiers, cruisers will be able to slot an engineer bridge officer that can use EPtS3, so that is a given. Additional suggestions appreciated.
* Science Bridge Officer skill MUST-HAVES - I'm thinking Hazard Team and Science team as being helpful, but with the focus on tanking and with potentially limted skills for science, what is an absolute must?
* Tactical Bridge Officer skill MUST-HAVES - Again, same with Science, facing limited skill slots, what is an absolute must to have? I will not be using torpedoes, strictly beam arrays, so the highest version of BFAW will definitely be slotted.
* Engineer Consoles - Should I stack energy/kinetic resists, or go for specific energy types? Will I benefit by assigning a console slot to an RCS console?
* Science Consoles - I would venture a guess that a max shield capacity console and a regen boost console would be slotted, but what about the consoles that boost crew survivability?
* Tactical Consoles - Planning on stacking consoles based on the energy weapon type I use. Is there still diminishing returns for using more than three of the same consoles?
* Gimmick Consoles - I will not likely be using the cloaking console, nor the saucer separation console while flying a Galaxy. But, I know some ships from the C-Store do have useful gimmick consoles. I have access to the Steamrunner pack, and that console I use more frequently than others. I imagine I will be using it as a dedicated part of my build, to help boost the survivability of my team, unless there is compelling reasoning to skip it.
* Energy Weapon Type - I am not going to a max CritH/CritD build, so I would guess that anti-protons are not needed. I would imagine that I am going for advanced fleet weapons, unless there is a better pairing of weapon type with a specific rep set should I devote the time to grind that out. Seeing how the end goal is not to be a max DPS machine, what energy type would be most beneficial? Phasers make my short list, as do tetryons and disruptors. What would be the best path regarding weapons - types from the reputation stores, fleet versions of the three I listed above, or crafted (I have level 15 Beams R&D on one captain).
So yeah it looks like a tall order. I could search for answers to all these questions, but often the information you find is dated and no longer applicable. This is for a Delta Recruit captain. If you are going to provide a response for a specific question or two, I would appreciate it if you would quote that specific question, but it's not a demand.
Again, I would like to thank anybody that responds for your assistance.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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The boff layout:
TT1, APB2
FAW1
ET1, Aux2SIF1, EPtS3, RSP3
EPtW1, Aux2SIF1, RSP2
HE1, TSS2
Doffs:
3 Purple DCEs (EPtX cooldown type), 2 Purple Conn officers (TT cooldown type), The one that adds HoT to Aux2SIF (if you have the 6th slot from the fleet spire)
The skill spec
http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/cruiser-skill-spec.html
At that point, nothing has any business getting through your shields and any bleedthrough should be nullified by Aux2SIF. Then you need to fly aggressively in order to keep aggro off others who will be doing way higher DPS than you.
Technically, there are no diminishing returns on Tac Consoles. Each console provides the same boost as the console before it. There is only the appearance of diminishing returns when viewing it in an incremental fashion.
100 + 30 = 130; 130 / 100 = 1.3, 30% increase
130 + 30 = 160; 160 / 130 = 1.23, 23% increase
160 + 30 = 190; 190 / 160 = 1.18, 18% increase
However... each was +30 and provided +30. So there isn't technically a diminishing return. There is no formula that it's fed into like with Damage Resistance which results in diminishing returns. You get the same amount from each in the end...
That should cover some basics for you. And then some. The info in there will help you evaluate a build.
I love it when this comes up.
How you been? You don't call, you don't write.
Hrmm, after Brandon left...the non-gold Tribble stuff was problematic...and I didn't want to be a pain, not sure what he had to go through to fudge that for when Tribble was gold-only. I might have also come off a bit...rough...in replies to Smirk and Bort when I kept reappearing on a certain mailing list. Wasn't really my intention to come off that way...but in looking back, can see where that might have been the case. My last reply to Smirk before he left was an apology if it had come off that way, and more about it just not wanting to be a pain because of being non-gold.
Hank's mentioned a few times that I should drop a line...but I'm just kind of anti-social. :P
* * * * *
Hrmm, just wanted to point out as an aside as well...the thread title and the original post...are kind of at odds. There are quite a few limitations being placed on the build in the original post that would prevent it from being the thread title.
* * * * *
Something else to consider, when considering the build, would be both the content and the group...cause different situations would lend themselves to different builds. Tanking ISA with a bunch of folks doing 20-10k or less vs. tanking HSE with a bunch of folks doing 30-50k or more...that sort of thing. As well as considering how the role would be played in the newer queues they're dropping out and what might be required there...
* * * * *
Yeah, the above...would be classic... "It depends."
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
Hey I don't mind thinking outside the box, and often enough we don't realize we are just in a different box.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
Thissler does some awesome vids there for sure...lots of good information - good knowledge of mechanics...definitely a site to bookmark and check on from time to time.
Heh, even with it being inside the box - still going to come down to what kind of content are you looking to tank and who are you looking to tank it for...there are just going to be nuances there where things will change. Gets into what kind of DPS are you fighting to hold aggro and what kind of DPS will you be taking while holding aggro. Going to be pug tanking, premade tanking, etc, etc, etc. Basically gets into where a player sees themselves - what they're planning on doing. Cause otherwise, the advice might end up being for something entirely different than what they're planning to do and might not go over so well.
The Command Cruiser Bundle bundle (for all 3 consoles) will give you the best tanking ship bar none (even w/o the Kobali console). Just equip the 3-pc consoles and deploy them, Suppression Barrage 3, Overwhelm Emitters 1 and 2, and Rally Point II and sit inside and FaW. Tanking and aggro'ing with the Tactical Variant and the full console set is viable, and can be further improved if you did have Reciprocity (Phantom), Battle Ready (Eclipse), and AHOD (Tactical Command Cruiser), to the point you could possibly keep your Command and Science skills short on CD. The Inspiration commands also make a critical difference; Giving you the the option of boosted attack, boosted defense, or near-instant reset of all Boff abilities. The 3-pc allows for 33% faster Inspiration gain, which does lead to notable faster build up of the Inspiration bar.
The Guardian is also a worthwhile mention here; it's console allows it to shield tank, it can GW enemies into the frontal arc, and it plays better with the defensive capabilities of the defensive equipment sets, since 2 of the defensive sets are shield-tanking oriented. Feedback Pulse and Reverse Shield Polarity work especially well on this ship (and work exceedingly well with its console), and has a solid emergency starship trait.
Dyson Rep set is one of the best defensive sets available in-game, if not the best. It is more shield-oriented tanking, its warp core does gain [AMP] at UR, and it has a short range proton shotgun ability that strips buffs off enemy targets (and IIRC, ignores shields).
The only other set that rivals the Dyson set is the Kobali set. However, that requires getting the Kobali Samsar (if/when it's released for Lobi) for its warp core. But it does gain [AMP] on the core and [ResAll] on the shields.
An honorable mention here is the Aegis set. Like the Dyson set, it's geared for shield-tanking.
Dyson Science consoles or Embassy Consoles. The former with a bonus 20% chance of repairing shields at the cost of slightly weaker mod bonuses, the latter giving your weapons a plasma infusion for more damage on top of a standard mod bonus and either threat gain or threat reduction.
Also, crew survivability is not that important, compared to boosting shields, or if using science skills like Tachyon Beam (to shield drain), Tractor Beam Repulsors, or Gravity Well, increasing PartGens or FlowCaps.
Going to go ahead and mention the Kobali Console, even if it's not obtainable at this time.
Aceton Assimilator and Plasmonic Leech from Lockbox console rewards. The former due to its Radiation damage and energy drain, and the latter for its energy drain to power up your own.
Assimilated Console + KCB. Solid 2-pc weapon set.
Romulan Plasma - Disruptor and Plasma Proc. Will work with Embassy Consoles in the future, once the new Embassy Console proc goes live.
Corrosive Plasma - Basically RomPlasma procs in DoT format, with increasing debuff every second. Will work with Embassy Consoles in the future, once the new Embassy Console proc goes live.
Refracting Tetryon - Shield stripping and chance to hit a second target proc. Will notably draw aggro with this when FaW'ing in a large group of enemies.
Phased Biomatter - Phaser-based weapon with a chance to hit other nearby targets. Same as Refracting Tetryon, in that it will notably draw increased aggro from large groups of enemies.
Polaron - Respectable weapons with an energy drain; more effective with high FlowCaps.
Phased Disruptor - Disruptor proc and Phaser proc.
Phased Polaron - Polaron proc and Phaser proc.
I am considering joining a larger and more active fleet with my DR alt, so I can start running with a more regular team, and get into advanced STFs and such. That would be my focus I guess, build an ultimate tank for mostly advanced STFs in a static group. Until then, PvE and the occasional PUG.
They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
Tanking is a combination of threat generation, healing, resists and DPS, used in a way as to get multiple things firing at you simultaneously so your teammates are safe. You will need lots of heals and damage resists, so making use of bridge officer abilities to add more healing and resists should be utilized. The DPS should come mainly from tac consoles, tac abilities and weapons. Using engineering or science abilities for damage purpose should only be used if the Ship ends up far tankier than necessary. You must create a balance that maximizes all of these things that works for you. Because you'll sacrifice a few bridge officer abilities that could boost damage from engineering and science for heals/ resists, getting CRTDx2 or better weapons are, in fact, something you should not dismiss.
For instance, in a cruiser with a CDR and LCDR engineering station, using damage control engineers, you only need 2 of the 7 abilities for EPTW and EPTS. Unless it is a command or intel cruiser, that leaves engineering team for the ensign abilities, though 1 ET and 1 overwhelm emitters on a command/ engineering hybrid station is really nice. That's 2 more accounted for. In general, that's the LCDR level abilities and Ensign level abilities. In the lone CDR ability, Aux to SIF3 is a wise choice for a tank. It provides a good heal every 15 seconds and 10 seconds of major hull damage resistances. That leaves the 2 LT level abilities. You could put in DEM1 for more DPS, but as a tank, you will take a pounding. Having the option to use double Aux to dampeners, another damage resistance boost, as well as tractor immunity, is another bonus.
That means your DPS is going to come from the tac consoles, the weapons and the limited tac abilities. Maximizing the weapons damage output just frees up a few stations to use something to make the ship take more damage. Sooner than later, you'll be alone on probe duty in Khitomer advanced, nearly oblivious to the borg cube and sphere trying to kill you, as you happily destroy the probes. Un-targeted, your BFAW might even destroy the cube, sphere, transformer or some combination of them, all while working on the probes.
QFT. Prior to DR I ran a JHDC tank build and would volunteer for probe duty simply because I knew I could do things like this. Quite often I would have both transformers exposed (left them alive to keep probe numbers under control for the opposite side) and both cubes dead by the time the rest of the team made it to my side, all without letting a single probe through.
Since DR and the advent of Reciprocity, I've found my JHDC to have redundant tac officer slots and have been trying to build a new tank, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what advice shows up. Hopefully it doesn't stagnate because it's not a DPS of the week thread.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Sheilds get stripped pretty fast in advanced.
Just my 2 ec.
Resists!
Skills that provide damage resistances can be used BEFORE you need them. It's a bit like brace for impact. You use it before you need it, but when damage is coming. Although, it might sound like you are wasting a heal, if you are aggro-ing lots of baddies constantly, you'll have some damage to heal up more often than not, and you'll have damage coming in before you can say what the.....so it won't be a total waste.
Skills like A2SIF, A2DAMP, EPTS and TSS all add extra resistances.
Cycling EPTS, A2SIF, TSS and A2DAMP, usually with tac team and eptw, all when possible, will boost resistances and make it where you use things like hazard emitters, engineering team and science team when needed or when teammates need them.
I went from a healer/ support player to a tank player the day I had a fleetmate blowing up left and right trying to do Cure elite (pre-DR). After some heated words on teamspeak, He told me to shoot the cube. The next time we ran it, all I did was BFAW the cubes. My DPS went way up, and so did the team members DPS. The difference? I didn't hold skills until after I took hits, I began using them before.
Resists make a difference.
Nothing wrong with hull tanking. I personally like a mix of shield and hull heals/ resists to use so I can pick what type of heal to use on myself or send to another player if I can spare something.
AtSIF already has a 15s cooldown, what's the Duplicate Ability cooldown? I know it has a 10s System cooldown with AtB and AtD, but I vaguely think having two copies of AtSIF is pointless.
I'd rather go AtSIF3 instead of RSP3, and RSP1 instead of AtSIF1. Bigger results, since even RSP1 should be sufficient to fill up shields while under fire.
The main reason some folks prefer a double A2SIF is that the resistance buff of 1 A2SIF only lasts 10 seconds. With 1 copy of A2SIF, you get a damage resistance boost for 10 seconds, but have to wait 5 seconds after the resistance buff wears off before you can use it again. With 2 A2SIF, you can run one every 10 seconds and keep the damage resist buff on (nearly) permanently.
It comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice and what you place more value on having.
For me, RSP1 will work just as good as RSP3 to replenish shields in most cases when I've got aggro, so I don't think it's as necessary to have RSP3. For some, RSP3 is needed since RSP1 won't work well enough. It comes down to the individual, their play style and what they value more.
All three have the same basic bridge officer setup.
At lvl 40, you may not yet have the duty officers (DOFFs) to get cooldowns working better, so I will start with the most basic setup and work DOFFs in and changes as you go along.
To start off, set your bridge officers similar to this..
TT1
BFAW1, APB1
ET1, EPTW2, EPTS3, A2SIF3
ET1, EPTW2, EPTS3
HE1, ST2
TT= Tactical Team
BFAW= Beam Fire at Will
APB= Attack Pattern Beta
ET= Engineering Team
EPTW= Emergency Power to Weapons
EPTS= Emergency Power to Shields
A2SIF= Auxillary power to the Structural Integrity Field
HE= Hazard Emitters
ST= Science Team
Weapons- Beam arrays. No need for torpedoes.
Tac consoles should only have consoles that boost your beam weapons, preferably all the same kind such as Phaser Relays for phaser beam arrays.
Science consoles should be emitter consoles to boost shield heals
Engineering consoles should be a mix of neutronium consoles, EPS flow regulators and universal consoles.
MK X blue deflectors, engines, warp core and shields are are suitable and relatively cheap enough to buy from the exchange if needed.
Cycle EPTW and EPTS skills as often as possible. If you have invested the time into setting up keybinds, these should go on your keybind. As soon as you can get tactical team recharge reduced, add it to the list.
DOFFs-Conn officers to reduce tac team recharge are top priority. If you've been sending your reserve duty officers on assignments, you may have already picked up a blue or purple conn officer that reduces tactical team recharge. If not, you can pick them up from the exchange.
Energy weapon officers that reduce recharge on beam special attacks is the next item on the list of DOFFs to obtain. These are typically more expensive on the exchange than conn officers.
To begin, the last DOFF you'll probably want is a development lab scientist that reduces science team.
Your space roster should look something like:
2 Conn Officers
2 Energy Weapon Officers
1 Development lab scientist
If you can train EPTW3 instead of EPTS3, swap them around. EPTW3 means more DPS with less tank. If you don't have Aux2SIF3 available, RSP3 might be a usable replacement or stand-in until you can get A2SIF3.
When you get to level 50, you can re-run missions for better rewards, and get some gear easily without spending much. Reputation becomes very important too.
I think they'd be better off with:
EPtS1, ET2, EPtW3, AtSIF3
EPtS1, RSP1, EPtW3
EPtS3 isn't really necessary if an Engineering captain has ST2, RSP1, RSF, and MW. Plus one of the nicer Rep abilities is the shield generator, and there's always Shield Batteries as a last resort. Lots and lots of shield heals and recovery. ET2, HE1, and AtSIF3 should be sufficient for hull, no need for 2xET1, especially at the cost of RSP1.
If you use Shield Distribution Officer DOffs you turn Brace For Impact into a rather nice shield heal as well.
Restating for emphasis: Tanking means holding aggro, and surviving the aggro. The ability to survive is only half the definition of a tank. Being invulnerable without being able to take and hold aggro makes you a "flying brick", not a "tank".
Preach it.
It's a 16.6% buff, over the 10% buff from EPTW1. That's not factoring in the increased overcap from more weapons power, though. I'd still probably take EPTW3 on most engineering-heavy ships these days, though.
And if that 1xET2 isn't cutting it, you can add two Maintenance Engineers to keep it on global cooldown.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Fleet embassy +Threat upgraded as far as you can make them to get and hold threat...Buy the mk-10s and upgrade from there much much cheeper that way
and fly as close to the target as possible which greatly increases Threat generated by you otherwise you will lose threat
Swap ATB for APD like this TT/APD1/APD2 Delta is much better for a tank
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse