I seem to recall Spock in the pilot recommending that they kill Gary Mitchell.
I've always felt that the way Picard runs his ship is different than how other captains do. My captains fall more in line with Kirk than Picard. If Kirk entered a system and saw enemies attacking a Starfleet ship or member planet...he'd shoot to kill.
"We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill..."
Picard was literally the weakest captain in starfleet. If I ever had to serve under him I'd be in constant fear for my life, he'd stand giving speeches while his ship broke apart around him.
Picard was literally the weakest captain in starfleet. If I ever had to serve under him I'd be in constant fear for my life, he'd stand giving speeches while his ship broke apart around him.
He also had one of the best command staff.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Picard was literally the weakest captain in starfleet. If I ever had to serve under him I'd be in constant fear for my life, he'd stand giving speeches while his ship broke apart around him.
thats why he had worf as his muscles. that big oaf riker was the brain. la forge was the internals like the spine, nerves plasma, red blood cells and the heart. troi was picards psyche and emotional well being. beverly was picards organs, skin. data was picards logic and confusion, wesley was picards inadequacy and short comings.
without any of them, picard would be nothing.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
This is why i main KDF. I can blow stuff up AND feel good about it.
Agreed. It's expected of the KDF to press the attack and show no mercy to enemies of the Empire.
Funny thing is such a combat heavy game like STO could still have made perfect sense to the Starfleet player, if the writing were a little more creative.
It's not bad, on occasion you do have to use lethal force to save ships or secure Federation territory and so on, because you have no other choice. And sometimes you do disable ships rather than destroy them. But there are times where the option for diplomacy could have been used to save a load of trouble. Or simply more defensive play.
It would be annoying as hell, but something as small as every enemy captain hailing you as soon as you turn up to beat their chest before pressing the attack would be enough. Diplomatic solutions are out the window and you're getting shot at. So lethal force or death.
The main issue is that this game was built around combat. This is a crutch that many games do rely on, kill bad guys collect loot.
Now for the Federation faction story line, at the start Cryptic did not have the disable ship tech at all pretty much. Most of that tech was used with the Romulan Faction if I recall correctly and you actually do disable ships more than the federation missions.
So while Cryptic could go through and change most of the ships to have the option of being disabled like many TNG battles, the amount of effort would be a significant time investment and change an important part of their ship combat mechanic's ie. Warp Core explosions.
If the game was built around elements like story and interaction with characters rather than combat it would be a lot easier to get that classic star trek experience.
The closest game example of a noncombat focus I can think of would be that MMO Myst game.
I seem to remember a hilarious animation in an earlier Star Trek game (can't remember if it was Armada?) where when you disabled an enemy ship, a random Ferengi Marauder snuck in and towed away the wreckage.
Actually, this must be happening in STO. This is how the Lobi Consortium stays stocked!!
Not relevant. If the Feds really wanted to prevent an "inevitable" war with the Dominion all they had to do was destroy the wormhole. 1 little Genesis device detonating in the wormhole and there's no way either side could pick a fight with the other.
Oh, it's completely relevant. The Federation runs on politics just like any other government, and at the time the Dominion was correctly judged to A) not actually be in control of the space they claimed as their hegemony (that being the entire f*cking galaxy, remember?), and not be an immediate enough threat to justify the nuclear option in the face of the international political sh*tstorm that would result from blowing away a major trade hub (never mind what the group of godlike aliens that lives there would think of it).
But the nuclear option is exactly what they tried to use in "In Purgatory's Shadow". The Federation was willing to destroy the wormhole to block a Dominion invasion when it actually happened. And because they're not idiots, they waited and gathered intelligence on their enemy, built listening posts, and didn't pull the trigger until the invasion was imminent.
Starfleet needs constant wars to justify using heavily armed spaceships for exploration and scientific research to it's gullible civilian population.
Hogwash. :rolleyes: The Federation heavily arms its ships because their ship designers are realists. Every second species out there is inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. And despite this, it's in Starfleet's book of regulations that in a first contact scenario you're supposed to try the diplomatic route first (VOY: "In the Flesh").
But diplomacy is a two-way street. There's a few descriptive words for not defending yourself when the other side has no interest in talking. Those words, in no particular order, are "suicidal", "dumb as sh*t", "brain-dead", "idiotic"...
The Dominion merely saw the Federation for the threat it really is, an evil empire with a rapacious need for expansion by any means necessary.
Welcome to reality. All nation-states want to expand their sphere of influence. That's true of democracies as much as dictatorships. Clearly we should abolish governments altogether because ambition is eeeeeeeevil. :rolleyes:
Remember in Roddenberry's vision the Federation provides it's citizens with everything they need to live comfortably. Citizens are given all the food, power, medical care, and shelter they want for free. The Federation is a giant interstellar welfare state.
That's the core worlds, and mostly Earth at that. Things are a lot more hardscrabble in the colonies.
There's Roddenberry's vision, and then there's what actually got written down.
Starfleet and Section 31 recruit potential trouble makers from the vast herd of citizen sheeple, indoctrinates them, and puts them on the frontiers where they are easier to control.
Evidence?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I just want consistency, and I don't remember Spock or Tuvok every saying to Kirk or Janeway, before anything else has even been tried, "We should destroy [FILL IN THE BLANK]. That should make [FILL IN THE BLANK] easier for us."
Ah Ha! I have one for you. There is a TOS episode where Spock recommends DESTROYING an entire crew and ship of Romulans, before they can make it back onto their side of the Neutral Zone.
Let me find it...Here it is:
Balance of Terror
Spock agrees with Stiles in that if the Romulans are an offshoot of the Vulcan people who have not learned to choose logic over emotions, they are more dangerous than Kirk realizes and that attacking is the logical choice. After a moment, Kirk gives the order to attack.
- McCoy, after Spock agrees with Stiles on attacking the Romulans
"It is for them, doctor. Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive, colonizing period; savage, even by Earth standards. And if the Romulans retained this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show."
I seem to remember a hilarious animation in an earlier Star Trek game (can't remember if it was Armada?) where when you disabled an enemy ship, a random Ferengi Marauder snuck in and towed away the wreckage.
Actually, this must be happening in STO. This is how the Lobi Consortium stays stocked!!
Yeah that was Armada games, if you wiped out a ships crew without blowing up the ship a Ferengi D'Kora would show up and make off with the hulk.
I explained in my post why even KDF and Romulans might prefer a standard policy of shoot to disable, because intel and prisoners are valuable things. Remember how pissed off Kruge was when his tac officer blew up an enemy ship when he wanted prisoners? A Klingon should always want prisoners. They're bloody useful things to have AND what's better to a Klingon than denying the enemy an honorable death in battle?
I think Kruge wanted scientists he could force to reveal the secrets of Genesis to him. After that, they would have been killed without so much as an afterthought.
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
"Any suggestions, admiral?"
"Prayer, Mister Saavik. The Klingons don't take prisoners."
- Saavik and Kirk, after the Kobayashi Maru exercise
Yeah, Shatner and Bennett (along with Brannon Braga) are the WORST things to ever happen to Star Trek. Thank goodness J.J. Abrams came along and fixed it for us, once and for all. :cool:
There is a patrol where you accept a mercenary contract from the Hierarchy (the local Ferengi) to protect medical stuff. Malon warps in, hail you (IE not hostile), claim the Hierarchy scammed them, and the medical stuff is their. Which is very plausible, considering the same Hierarchy try to ambush you about 3 times in DR.
And what the mighty Federation captain is forced to do (as in no other choices) ? He shoot them. And kill them all.
On a side note : Prime Directive. But then, it's the Delta Quadrant, a place in the galaxy were the Prime Directive doesn't seems to exist.
I was thinking of the wrong movie. Kruge was Peter Lloyd in The Wrath of Khan, not ST:V The Final Frontier. But...
Yeah, Shatner and Bennett (along with Brannon Braga) are the WORST things to ever happen to Star Trek. Thank goodness J.J. Abrams came along and fixed it for us, once and for all. :cool:
The character Kruge was in the third film, not the Wrath of Khan.
And Harve Bennett was the man that actually played a major role in saving the franchise after Roddenberry blew it with Star Trek: The Motion Picture. If it wasn't for him, Star Trek would have been dead after the first film.
Shatner and Bennett wanted a bigger and more ambitious story for Star Trek V than what we got. It was the suits at Paramount, and the fickleness of some of the cast, that screwed the pooch on that one. Shatner just gets all the blame from the majority of the Trek nerds in the world.
I won't argue about Rick Berman (and his partner in crime Brannon Braga). Agree with you there. The same with the needed resurrection serum for a dead franchise, courtesy of J.J. Abrams and Crew.
As for the topic of the thread, people need to remember that STO is a typical, bargain basement MMO in Trek flavor. It's not meant to be a damned Star Trek simulator. You fight enemies, look for TRIBBLE, hang out with your e-friends, and get rewards to go toward some sort of grind. Nothing more, nothing less. It is what it is.
Did I really see someone in here arguing Picard was the weakest Starfleet captain?
Look, guys, DS9 is only one part of Star Trek. "In the Pale Moonlight" was one episode and it was good because it was different, not because it was the same as the rest of the series. And if you actually watch the show, you'll realize Picard stared down dangerous enemies more than a few times.
The other thing is, Starfleet is intended to be, by and large, peaceful, but with a big stick for when it's needed. DS9 was a big-stick show. TNG was not, but Picard used the stick when he had to.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
It would be cool if Cryptic would allow altering death animations to also end with ships just being disabled, instead of blowing up spectactularly. Maybe they could create mechanics for that specifically?
Not relevant. If the Feds really wanted to prevent an "inevitable" war with the Dominion all they had to do was destroy the wormhole. 1 little Genesis device detonating in the wormhole and there's no way either side could pick a fight with the other.
They did obviously not want to avoid the war as much as the wanted to avoid genocide on an alien species? Or do you think blowing up the wormhole is harmless to the Prophets? Billions may have died in the Dominion War, but no species went extinct. (Of course, it would have been funny if the attempts to destroy the worm hole would actually fail - after all, it's not your bog standard wormhole and we don't know what powers the prophets actually hold there. Just because in some alternate reality scenarios and simulations it looked like it was possible, doesn't mean it was.)
Of course, the Dominion War would still be a potential for the future. The Dominion was expanding, the Federation was expanding, they would eventually meet somewhere, even without the wormhole. It might still be decades or centuries off, of course.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Did I really see someone in here arguing Picard was the weakest Starfleet captain?
Look, guys, DS9 is only one part of Star Trek. "In the Pale Moonlight" was one episode and it was good because it was different, not because it was the same as the rest of the series. And if you actually watch the show, you'll realize Picard stared down dangerous enemies more than a few times.
The other thing is, Starfleet is intended to be, by and large, peaceful, but with a big stick for when it's needed. DS9 was a big-stick show. TNG was not, but Picard used the stick when he had to.
I wasn't the one who said he was weak but I wasnt a fan of his command style. The episode that really turned me off to him was the episode that introduced the Ferengi. In the captains log voice over we find out the ferengi stole something and the enterprise was pursuing them. The ferengi were firing at the enterprise. Everyone was ready to fire back but Picard said something like:
"Well we did provoke them by following them. Don't shhot."
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I wasn't the one who said he was weak but I wasnt a fan of his command style. The episode that really turned me off to him was the episode that introduced the Ferengi. In the captains log voice over we find out the ferengi stole something and the enterprise was pursuing them. The ferengi were firing at the enterprise. Everyone was ready to fire back but Picard said something like:
"Well we did provoke them by following them. Don't shhot."
And then there was the one where he called Cardassians treacherous or something, on basis of back when he had the Stargazer he flew into Cardassian territory in wartime with his shields down as a show of good faith, and the Cardies decided to shoot him instead.
What the frak did you think was going to happen, dumbass?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
"We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill..."
thats why he had worf as his muscles. that big oaf riker was the brain. la forge was the internals like the spine, nerves plasma, red blood cells and the heart. troi was picards psyche and emotional well being. beverly was picards organs, skin. data was picards logic and confusion, wesley was picards inadequacy and short comings.
without any of them, picard would be nothing.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Having said that TNG is my favorite star trek show, but in a real life situation, i'd rather not be with the love boat thank you
(Ponders it)
Head explodes.
Agreed. It's expected of the KDF to press the attack and show no mercy to enemies of the Empire.
Funny thing is such a combat heavy game like STO could still have made perfect sense to the Starfleet player, if the writing were a little more creative.
It's not bad, on occasion you do have to use lethal force to save ships or secure Federation territory and so on, because you have no other choice. And sometimes you do disable ships rather than destroy them. But there are times where the option for diplomacy could have been used to save a load of trouble. Or simply more defensive play.
It would be annoying as hell, but something as small as every enemy captain hailing you as soon as you turn up to beat their chest before pressing the attack would be enough. Diplomatic solutions are out the window and you're getting shot at. So lethal force or death.
Now for the Federation faction story line, at the start Cryptic did not have the disable ship tech at all pretty much. Most of that tech was used with the Romulan Faction if I recall correctly and you actually do disable ships more than the federation missions.
So while Cryptic could go through and change most of the ships to have the option of being disabled like many TNG battles, the amount of effort would be a significant time investment and change an important part of their ship combat mechanic's ie. Warp Core explosions.
If the game was built around elements like story and interaction with characters rather than combat it would be a lot easier to get that classic star trek experience.
The closest game example of a noncombat focus I can think of would be that MMO Myst game.
Actually, this must be happening in STO. This is how the Lobi Consortium stays stocked!!
But the nuclear option is exactly what they tried to use in "In Purgatory's Shadow". The Federation was willing to destroy the wormhole to block a Dominion invasion when it actually happened. And because they're not idiots, they waited and gathered intelligence on their enemy, built listening posts, and didn't pull the trigger until the invasion was imminent.
Hogwash. :rolleyes: The Federation heavily arms its ships because their ship designers are realists. Every second species out there is inclined to shoot first and ask questions later. And despite this, it's in Starfleet's book of regulations that in a first contact scenario you're supposed to try the diplomatic route first (VOY: "In the Flesh").
But diplomacy is a two-way street. There's a few descriptive words for not defending yourself when the other side has no interest in talking. Those words, in no particular order, are "suicidal", "dumb as sh*t", "brain-dead", "idiotic"...
Welcome to reality. All nation-states want to expand their sphere of influence. That's true of democracies as much as dictatorships. Clearly we should abolish governments altogether because ambition is eeeeeeeevil. :rolleyes:
That's the core worlds, and mostly Earth at that. Things are a lot more hardscrabble in the colonies.
There's Roddenberry's vision, and then there's what actually got written down.
Evidence?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Ah Ha! I have one for you. There is a TOS episode where Spock recommends DESTROYING an entire crew and ship of Romulans, before they can make it back onto their side of the Neutral Zone.
Let me find it...Here it is:
Yeah that was Armada games, if you wiped out a ships crew without blowing up the ship a Ferengi D'Kora would show up and make off with the hulk.
I think Kruge wanted scientists he could force to reveal the secrets of Genesis to him. After that, they would have been killed without so much as an afterthought.
the story of ST V it self that was awful not shatners directing.
I was thinking of the wrong movie. Kruge was Peter Lloyd in The Wrath of Khan, not ST:V The Final Frontier. But...
Yeah, Shatner and Bennett (along with Brannon Braga) are the WORST things to ever happen to Star Trek. Thank goodness J.J. Abrams came along and fixed it for us, once and for all. :cool:
There is a patrol where you accept a mercenary contract from the Hierarchy (the local Ferengi) to protect medical stuff. Malon warps in, hail you (IE not hostile), claim the Hierarchy scammed them, and the medical stuff is their. Which is very plausible, considering the same Hierarchy try to ambush you about 3 times in DR.
And what the mighty Federation captain is forced to do (as in no other choices) ? He shoot them. And kill them all.
On a side note : Prime Directive. But then, it's the Delta Quadrant, a place in the galaxy were the Prime Directive doesn't seems to exist.
The character Kruge was in the third film, not the Wrath of Khan.
And Harve Bennett was the man that actually played a major role in saving the franchise after Roddenberry blew it with Star Trek: The Motion Picture. If it wasn't for him, Star Trek would have been dead after the first film.
Shatner and Bennett wanted a bigger and more ambitious story for Star Trek V than what we got. It was the suits at Paramount, and the fickleness of some of the cast, that screwed the pooch on that one. Shatner just gets all the blame from the majority of the Trek nerds in the world.
I won't argue about Rick Berman (and his partner in crime Brannon Braga). Agree with you there. The same with the needed resurrection serum for a dead franchise, courtesy of J.J. Abrams and Crew.
As for the topic of the thread, people need to remember that STO is a typical, bargain basement MMO in Trek flavor. It's not meant to be a damned Star Trek simulator. You fight enemies, look for TRIBBLE, hang out with your e-friends, and get rewards to go toward some sort of grind. Nothing more, nothing less. It is what it is.
Look, guys, DS9 is only one part of Star Trek. "In the Pale Moonlight" was one episode and it was good because it was different, not because it was the same as the rest of the series. And if you actually watch the show, you'll realize Picard stared down dangerous enemies more than a few times.
The other thing is, Starfleet is intended to be, by and large, peaceful, but with a big stick for when it's needed. DS9 was a big-stick show. TNG was not, but Picard used the stick when he had to.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a game,
I should really just relax
For Star Trek Online."
They did obviously not want to avoid the war as much as the wanted to avoid genocide on an alien species? Or do you think blowing up the wormhole is harmless to the Prophets? Billions may have died in the Dominion War, but no species went extinct. (Of course, it would have been funny if the attempts to destroy the worm hole would actually fail - after all, it's not your bog standard wormhole and we don't know what powers the prophets actually hold there. Just because in some alternate reality scenarios and simulations it looked like it was possible, doesn't mean it was.)
Of course, the Dominion War would still be a potential for the future. The Dominion was expanding, the Federation was expanding, they would eventually meet somewhere, even without the wormhole. It might still be decades or centuries off, of course.
Most of my alts yea haha.
About the OPs concern...learn to headcanon i guess?
Wish they could change most death animations to diabled / heavy stun or have em run away somehow tho... but yknow
Not a priority
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
I wasn't the one who said he was weak but I wasnt a fan of his command style. The episode that really turned me off to him was the episode that introduced the Ferengi. In the captains log voice over we find out the ferengi stole something and the enterprise was pursuing them. The ferengi were firing at the enterprise. Everyone was ready to fire back but Picard said something like:
"Well we did provoke them by following them. Don't shhot."
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And then there was the one where he called Cardassians treacherous or something, on basis of back when he had the Stargazer he flew into Cardassian territory in wartime with his shields down as a show of good faith, and the Cardies decided to shoot him instead.
What the frak did you think was going to happen, dumbass?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/