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ACC Overflow....it still exists?
jaydenomega812
Member Posts: 149 Arc User
So much to my surprise ACC overflow still exists at least in pvp for sure. As yesterday I decided to 1vs1 someone who was in a manasa and me in my scimitar. This post isn't about the spanking I got handed...it is however, about the 45% crit strike chance the escort dished out according to CLR (Combat Log Reader w/DPS Channel settings).
So I asked the guy in the escort what is stat crit chance is and he said it was 27%. I believe him at that to though cause my stat crit chance was 26% and CLR said I had 30%.
His DHC's were epic accx2..so with the epic mod he had 30% acc at each weapon in addition to the accurate trait. Perhaps some other stuff to boost acc, but for the most part not relevant to this topic. His defense 106%. My defense was 88%. He was also running A2D in 2 copies and epte so when moving I'm sure his defense was scaling much higher.
But to my surprise of the game mechanics in play here....my accuracy as reported by CLR was 70% whereas his accuracy was 75%. My weapons are acc1 non epics and trait I did have on accurate trait.
Again this isn't about my whooping necessarily just comparing apples to oranges in an attempt to understand a game mechanic I thought had been dealt with at least a year ago now the resolution of which came to be......Extra Acc meant extra chance to hit not extra chance to crit hit and boost crit sev.
See #7 review posting dates and wonder. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=998051
What is in the world is an acc mod on a weapon truly for then? To get higher crit chance and crit sev? Why even bother with crtd mods then when you can just acc it up and get a crtd and crth mod.....Furthermore, I would think an ACC overflow would occur only when accuracy is at 100% reported by CLR for the duration of the match.
IDK...thoughts, comments, suggestions....should this thread be where it is now or moved to Gameplay bug reports...IDK.
So I asked the guy in the escort what is stat crit chance is and he said it was 27%. I believe him at that to though cause my stat crit chance was 26% and CLR said I had 30%.
His DHC's were epic accx2..so with the epic mod he had 30% acc at each weapon in addition to the accurate trait. Perhaps some other stuff to boost acc, but for the most part not relevant to this topic. His defense 106%. My defense was 88%. He was also running A2D in 2 copies and epte so when moving I'm sure his defense was scaling much higher.
But to my surprise of the game mechanics in play here....my accuracy as reported by CLR was 70% whereas his accuracy was 75%. My weapons are acc1 non epics and trait I did have on accurate trait.
Again this isn't about my whooping necessarily just comparing apples to oranges in an attempt to understand a game mechanic I thought had been dealt with at least a year ago now the resolution of which came to be......Extra Acc meant extra chance to hit not extra chance to crit hit and boost crit sev.
See #7 review posting dates and wonder. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=998051
What is in the world is an acc mod on a weapon truly for then? To get higher crit chance and crit sev? Why even bother with crtd mods then when you can just acc it up and get a crtd and crth mod.....Furthermore, I would think an ACC overflow would occur only when accuracy is at 100% reported by CLR for the duration of the match.
IDK...thoughts, comments, suggestions....should this thread be where it is now or moved to Gameplay bug reports...IDK.
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I found that too and read over it so I understand the game mechanic itself I just thought it had been adjusted to compensate for acc stacking to get crtd and crth mods instead of acc working to over come enemy defense. As well though the posting date of that is so very old. The link I posted came years after when it was figured out that acc stacking was giving crtd crth buffs.
The +CrtH/CrtD from Accuracy Overflow and having Acc mods is not as good as an actual CrtH or CrtD mod. Hence all the discussion of [CrtD]x3[Pen] and [CrtD]x4 mods over in PvE land. In PvP, it wasn't about Acc for Accuracy Overflow - it's just about that fight of Accuracy vs. Defense.
When they introduced Surgical Strikes with it's +40% Accuracy, folks could trade 4x Acc mods for 4x CrtD mods...trading 40% Accuracy for 80% Critical Severity. Can't remember what that got changed to with the Surgical changes.
Something else to consider is that Critical Hit Chance is random. You can run the same build and get wildly varying numbers at times depending on how the RNG Gods are feeling that day. A 25% Critical Hit Chance doesn't mean that 25% of your Hits will be Crits. Might be more...might be less.
Getting back to the post as well I referenced...it was my understanding as I said already that acc overflow was fixed so it didn't mean crth and crtd bonuses from acc stacking. It just meant higher actual hit chance. Which I believe is the overhaul the cryptic team member was referring to. "Acc Overflow is a really arcane mechanic that doesn't message well at all. Fixing it will be a widespread change to the mechanic as a whole, not just a change to a flag on Fire at Will."
A different post here but again see #7 and posting date. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=751581
It's obviously been a topic of discussion before. Again though, it's about I thought it was fixed, but apparently it's not. I can't seem to find a forum post where it's 3 cheers for cryptic acc overflow doesn't add crth and crtd anymore though it was my understanding that it happened at sometime in a past patch from the last year or so. Guess I shouldn't bother turning my vr's acc1 crtd2 into epics and just get accx3 instead.
I will have to agree that acc overflow isn't as good as crtd or crth. Here's the numbers. Spreadsheet with math linked at bottom.
Also, CLR does have a calculate crit severity option, it's under advanced calculations.
And that low, you won't even see the difference from weapon mods anyway.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Say there's a parked target...no traits, no skills, just parked. It's looking at -15% Bonus Defense. Say our attacker has no additional accuracy. So it's 0% BA vs. -15% BD.
That's not 15% Accuracy Overflow. It's a difference of 15%, so we know to use the If Diff Pos formula.
%ToHit = 2 - (1 / (1 + Diff))
%ToHit = 2 - (1 / (1 + 0.15)) = 2 - (1 / 1.15) = 2 - 0.86956 = 1.13044 (rounding taking place there)
1.13044 - 1 = 0.13044 (%ToHit - 100%ToHit to get the overflow)
Bonus CrtH is 0.125 * Accuracy Overflow.
Bonus CrtD is 0.5 * Accuracy Overflow.
BCrtH = 0.13044 * 0.125 = 0.016305 * 100 = 1.6305% (multiplied by 100 to get the %)
BCrtD = 0.13044 * 0.5 = 0.06522 * 100 = 6.522% (multiplied by 100 to get the %)
So let's add an [Acc] mod to the weapon, yeah?
That takes our Diff to 0.25, still positive. So we run that through the formula.
%ToHit = 2 - (1 / (1 + 0.25)) = 2 - (1 / 1.25) = 2 - 0.8 = 1.2
1.2 - 1 = 0.2
BCrtH = 0.2 * 0.125 = 0.025 * 100 = 2.5%
BCrtD = 0.2 * 0.5 = 0.1 * 100 = 10%
So we started with 1.63% CrtH and 6.5% CrtD...
[Acc] added 0.87% CrtH and 3.5% CrtD.
[CrtH] would have added 2% CrtH.
[CrtD] would have added 20% CrtD.
Course, %ToHit is subject to all sorts of diminishing returns as you boost either Bonus Defense or Bonus Accuracy. So let's run those numbers again, but we'll start with 9 Starship Targeting Systems and the Accurate Trait thrown in to the mix.
So our initial BA will be 0.25 vs. -0.15 BD. So our starting Diff will be 0.4 to work through the formula.
%ToHit = 2 - (1 / (1 + 0.4)) = 2 - (1 / 1.4) = 2 - 0.71428 = 1.28572 (again rounding)
1.28572 - 1 = 0.28572
But right here, we can see the diminishing returns by looking at our two previous sets of numbers.
Diff of 0.15 resulted in 0.13044 Acc Overflow, we already lost out on the 0.15 being reduced.
Diff of 0.25 resulted in 0.2, and we see our returns get smaller. Adding 0.1 only added ~0.06956 to the Overflow.
Diff of 0.4 resulted in 0.28572, so that extra 0.15 added ~0.08572 Overflow.
BCrtH = 0.28572 * 0.125 = 0.035715 * 100 = 3.5715%
BCrtD = 0.28572 * 0.5 = 0.14286 * 100 = 14.286%
So let's add in that [Acc] mod again. Our new Diff will be 0.5 for the formula.
%ToHit = 2 - (1 / (1 + 0.5)) = 2 - (1 / 1.5) = 2 - 0.66667 = 1.33333
1.33333 - 1 = 0.33333 (that additional 0.1 only added 0.04761 compared to the 0.06956 it added for the previous example)
BCrtH = 0.33333 * 0.125 = 0.04166625 * 100 = 4.166625%
BCrtD = 0.33333 * 0.5 = 0.166665 * 100 = 16.6665%
So we started with 3.57% CrtH and 14.28% CrtD...
[Acc] added 0.595% CrtH and 2.38% CrtD.
[CrtH] would have added 2% CrtH.
[CrtD] would have added 20% CrtD.
The above is premised off of Big Red's explanation at the bottom of that post I linked to...
Here are the numbers from my last ISA run...
Overview: 13.901% CrtH
But let's check out my Hits With where it shows for each weapon, eh?
Pets (Sum): 5.919%
Phased Biomatter Turret - Scatter Volley 1: 24.584%
Phased BIomatter Turret: 25.283%
Gravity Well I: 5.942%
Dual Heavy Phased Biomatter Cannons - Scatter Volley I: 23.636%
Dual Heavy Phased Biomatter Cannons: 26.122%
Heavy Bio-Molecular Phaser Turret - Scatter Volley I: 23.75%
Mine Explosion: 20.725%
Heavy Bio-Molecular Phaser Turret: 30.337%
Crystalline Energy Torpedo - Spread I: 26.404%
Biomatter Needle Burst: 0.0%
Crystalline Energy Torpedo: 35.0%
Refracting Tetryon Cascade: 37.5%
Bio-Molecular Incubation: 0.0%
I had 10,557 Attacks out...5,368 of them were from the Pets (Sum) at the 5.919% CrtH. I only had 16 attacks with the R-Tet Cascade at 37.5% CrtH.
That CrtH% from the Overview is the number of Criticals amongst all your attacks...if you've got Pets, using things that can't Crit, don't benefit from your CrtH, have different amounts of CrtH on the weapons themselves or maybe some Particle Manipulator action going on for Exotic Crits...
And at the end of the day, it's still just RNG.
Previous R-Tet CrtH%'s?
46.154% / 13 total hits
0.0% / 16 total hits
0.0% / 11 total hits
0.0% / 3 total hits
83.333% / 6 total hits
My CLR readings:
http://s30.postimg.org/hvt19okch/Jayden_CLR_read.jpg
My Stats:
http://s16.postimg.org/rrdkpxb1x/Jayden_stats.jpg
Enemy CLR Reading:
http://s2.postimg.org/i77fhd6ah/Enemy_CLR_Reading.jpg
So plug numbers in how you need to to figure out whatever. All I know is the end result according to CLR. Acc overflowing into crth but far from 100% accuracy in hitting on both sides which to me makes no sense.
DHCs...close range...higher damage than Beams.
That 60% Flanking...Intel...Space Flanking with the boost to damage, critical hit chance, and critical severity.
All sorts of other things.
Oh no I figured it out from further digging and testing.
So first we have...http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=953321 See #8 and posting date.
Then thru my own testing...
Infected run with Tactical Precision trait:
http://s22.postimg.org/6f5zgp4ld/infected_run_with_tac_precision.jpg
Infected run without Tactical Precision trait:
http://s11.postimg.org/vtjsigpoz/infected_run_without_tac_precision.jpg
Infected run with Tactical Precision Trait and no faw:
http://s9.postimg.org/60rz16ki7/infected_run_with_tac_precision_no_faw.jpg
So in the end we have proof that crf is allowing for acc overflow, BFAW is not allowing acc overflow on multiple targets and Tactical Precision is doing something strange to Crit Sev.
GO FIGURE!!! Let's see what other broken game mechanics I can discover then.
on a side note....dhc's are not supposed to work like pulsewaves....there damage is not supposed to decrease over distance which given what you said there could be something for me to test out later. As well though I know from the pics his flanking percent was high and he was going for flank bonuses but given I was in a scimitar and he was in a manasa there wasn't much I could do to stop him from it cause I could change position so he wasn't getting flank bonus but he could quickly remove so he was.
I don't think there was ever a problem with acc overflow working with crf. It is the AOE skills that do not work with overflow... BFAW, CSV and TS. It has something to do with auto hitting various targets.
To be honest BFAW should have a large acc penalty. CSV and TS focus their aoe in a cone shape. BFAW is 360 and at the full range of weapons. One skill that can allow all beams on a ship to hit multiple targets on opposite side of your ship, targets that can be as far as 20km apart from each other, at the same time getting a damage bonus x2 greater than equal rank CSV(+32% vs +15% at Lt and +40% vs +20% at Lt Cmd)?!? Somehow a skill with a limited cone aoe gets less of a damage bonus than all-seeing-no-where-to-hide-BFAW.
This doesn't seem to work like that in practice though. Maybe it helps that everyone is using FAW, thus resulting in the lonely torpedo boat to somehow get all threat?
Huh whuh whah?
Thank you - thank you - thanks you
This information is gold
This helps tremendously, specifically for tuning my unconventional builds.
I kow tow now, without irony.