Romulan D7s

abqapache

Are we going to see the traditional Romulan D7 ever come to the Romulan gameplay?

I believe in the re-mastered "Enterprise incident" the D7s are shown having a Bird-of-prey painted on their hulls.

I'd love to see these ships come to Romulan gameplay.

jorumgandr

you can technically have this.

if you have a Klingon allied romulan you can buy a T3 K'Tinga.

But as for Romulans building their own Klingon Style battlecruisers for Endgame, I clearly doubt it. the new generation of Command cruisers is clearly showing that cryptic wants the romulan republic to have their own identity and combat style.

davidwford

I too want to see a Romulan D7 as a dedicated T3 ship. Maybe even give it the unique ability to slot both a M/AM core and/or a singularity core.

tolmarius

abqapache wrote: »

I'd love to see these ships come to Romulan gameplay.

I would agreee. I know multiple Romulan players who are huge fans of TOS who would love to have a Romulan D7 skin.

spockout1

Love this idea. Port over the T3 KDF ship, then add the Bird of Prey decal as an option for the hull.

Also, make a T3 T'Liss and T3 Constitution so all 3 factions could have a T3 TOS ship.

Well...I can dream anyway.

protogoth

T6!!!

Tier 6 V-11 Stormbird Akif class (the name given in deuterocanonical literature to the Romulan D7), with the Raptor image.

nickcastleton

id love to see a 25th century version of it, something very similar but prehaps with a romulan look (ie beak saucer)

abqapache

protogoth wrote: »

T6!!!

Tier 6 V-11 Stormbird Akif class (the name given in deuterocanonical literature to the Romulan D7), with the Raptor image.

Is this coming or already in the game? I'd love to see a T6 Romulan D7, that would be fantastic.

You could even add it into the storyline as in its basically cheaper to re-fit the D7s than to develop new ships

kodachikuno

nickcastleton wrote: »

id love to see a 25th century version of it, something very similar but prehaps with a romulan look (ie beak saucer)

now THAT would be interesting... something between a mogai(or dhelan) and a vor'cha... and with a sci focus to help plug a hole in our rosters.

misterde3

kodachikuno wrote: »

now THAT would be interesting... something between a mogai(or dhelan) and a vor'cha... and with a sci focus to help plug a hole in our rosters.

Well I designed an posted something like this...years ago actually. It predates LoR. It doesn't have a beak though.;)

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8786471&postcount=44

abqapache

Ok just to clarify, I would like the TOS era D7s complete with a Raptor image....

Devs, if you get bored.....

psycoticvulcan

I'd love if the various Romulan skins could be applied to allied ships. We already have the Reman shields which do the same thing, so it's certainly possible.

chipg7

protogoth wrote: »

T6!!!

Tier 6 V-11 Stormbird Akif class (the name given in deuterocanonical literature to the Romulan D7), with the Raptor image.

Eh, I'm not a fan of them having put the 2150s T'varo at T5, let alone the D7 up there too. With some of the designs that Cryptic's been putting out there for the Republic recently, I'd rather see them continue their awesome work for end-game ships.

That said, the D7 would be a great option right up to T4. It's a classic, and it needs a little love.

protogoth

chipg7 wrote: »

Eh, I'm not a fan of them having put the 2150s T'varo at T5, let alone the D7 up there too. With some of the designs that Cryptic's been putting out there for the Republic recently, I'd rather see them continue their awesome work for end-game ships.

That said, the D7 would be a great option right up to T4. It's a classic, and it needs a little love.

I will repeat a twist on my classic defense of the chain mail bikini in Fantasy-themed MMOs which I have used in these discussions before.

In the Fantasy genre, with few exceptions, magic and illusion are a given. What appears to be a chain mail bikini may in fact be full plate mail which has been glamoured to appear to be a chain mail bikini, or it may be an actual chain mail bikini, which has been magicked into having a superior defense. In addition, numerous other means of defense exist in such a setting, all more or less magical in nature (ring of protection, cloak of protection, etc).

In the SF genre, and particularly in Star Trek, the existence of holoemitters is a given. We even do a mission called "Night of the Comet" which allows even my T6 Deihu Science Command Warbird to appear to be a D7 from the 23rd century. Obviously, the technology for "illusion" exists in-game. We can even buy holoemitters from the Lobi Consortium which allow our ships to take on the appearance of a Gekli or various other things. You can't buy a D7 holoemitter, but they obviously exist ("Night of the Comet" again). You can't buy a T'liss holoemitter, yet no rational justification for their not existing can be found. The Lobi shop does not sell a Constitution class holoemitter, either, but again, no logical reason for this exists.

So what you see that looks like a D7 may actually be something else entirely.

Again, superior materials, stronger shields and hull plating, etc, could result in construction of an updated D7 which looks exactly like the original, but is obviously not. For that matter, the Koro't'inga is not so distinct from the D7 as to justify claims that the D7 design is obsolete (and in fact my main -- a KDF-allied Romulan -- has a Koro-t'inga Retrofit skinned as a D7).

In relation to appearance and reality:

"... perch

cookiecrook

I have wanted a Romulan version of the D7 since the Romulan expansion was released. I would also like to see a Klingon and Romulan D7 available in T6 versions.

chipg7

protogoth wrote: »

So what you see that looks like a D7 may actually be something else entirely.

Again, superior materials, stronger shields and hull plating, etc, could result in construction of an updated D7 which looks exactly like the original, but is obviously not. For that matter, the Koro't'inga is not so distinct from the D7 as to justify claims that the D7 design is obsolete (and in fact my main -- a KDF-allied Romulan -- has a Koro-t'inga Retrofit skinned as a D7).

Good points all-around - can't really argue with most of what you've said.

The only caveat I'll put forward is more about game than lore, and that's the fact that there is always a "Make a T5 / T6 Connie!!!!!!" thread going on. The T'varo and the KDF D7 are already in place as T5 ships. I think if Cryptic tries to push many more TOS ships into the end-game, then that's a very slippery slope.

I'm more inclined to support the way Cryptic's been releasing ships over the last months. And that's:

- release new, in-house designed ships for the end-game T5/T6
- canon ships released for the end-game come as an updated variant first, but have the options of the old ships for customizing
- canon ships released as they are, are released at lower tiers - such as the Constellation at T3

So if a D7 comes into play for the Republic as a T5/T6 ship, then it's got to come as a clear updated variant - but with the D7 skin options. Although, that's guaranteed to make the T6 Connie Feddie-bears FIERCE. My ideal is that it's released as a proper D7, slotted into T3 or T4.

protogoth

chipg7 wrote: »

Good points all-around - can't really argue with most of what you've said.

The only caveat I'll put forward is more about game than lore, and that's the fact that there is always a "Make a T5 / T6 Connie!!!!!!" thread going on. The T'varo and the KDF D7 are already in place as T5 ships. I think if Cryptic tries to push many more TOS ships into the end-game, then that's a very slippery slope.

I don't have a problem with a T5-U/T6 Constitution class, either, for the same reasons I have given above.

These three ships, Constitution, T'liss, and D7, are the most iconic ships in all of Trek. And before the TNG kiddies start protesting, I will point out that these three ships were part of Trekker consciousness FOR OVER TWENTY YEARS BEFORE TNG APPEARED. More people have seen these ships, and have seen them for a longer period of time, than anything in TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT. These three ships will always be the most representative ships of Star Trek. They are, in a sense, the flagships of Star Trek. They are MYTHIC in a way that the ships of TNG are but legendary.

davidwford

chipg7 wrote: »

Good points all-around - can't really argue with most of what you've said.

The only caveat I'll put forward is more about game than lore, and that's the fact that there is always a "Make a T5 / T6 Connie!!!!!!" thread going on. The T'varo and the KDF D7 are already in place as T5 ships. I think if Cryptic tries to push many more TOS ships into the end-game, then that's a very slippery slope.

I'm more inclined to support the way Cryptic's been releasing ships over the last months. And that's:

- release new, in-house designed ships for the end-game T5/T6
- canon ships released for the end-game come as an updated variant first, but have the options of the old ships for customizing
- canon ships released as they are, are released at lower tiers - such as the Constellation at T3

So if a D7 comes into play for the Republic as a T5/T6 ship, then it's got to come as a clear updated variant - but with the D7 skin options. Although, that's guaranteed to make the T6 Connie Feddie-bears FIERCE. My ideal is that it's released as a proper D7, slotted into T3 or T4.

I support adding an updated variant of the D7 both with new skins (Koro't'inga as was the case for the KDF).

My addition would be to give it the unique ability to slot both a singularity and warp core. The question becomes either one in the same slot OR allow the unusual ability to slot one of each simultaneously. Likewise, a similar ship could be released for the KDF that would allow for the same thing. Another question would be battlecloak or normal cloak.

tolmarius

davidwford wrote: »

I support adding an updated variant of the D7 both with new skins (Koro't'inga as was the case for the KDF).

My addition would be to give it the unique ability to slot both a singularity and warp core. The question becomes either one in the same slot OR allow the unusual ability to slot one of each simultaneously. Likewise, a similar ship could be released for the KDF that would allow for the same thing. Another question would be battlecloak or normal cloak.

I will point out that the Romulan D7s were bought from the Klingons. They came with warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity cores. They are designed that way. The Klingon ships are designed for warp cores. They would likely required massive alterations to handle a singularity.

staq16

As a KDF diehard, I have to say that it would be little short of criminal if the D7 frame was available at T6 for Roms but not Klingons (who already have it at F-T5U).

So, while it would be unabashed baiting of the Connie fanboys; perhaps this could be the first C-store cross faction (KDF / Rom) starship? The KDF has continued to update and develop the venerable D4 (!) family of ships and it is far from unreasonable that examples should again be traded to the Romulans.

To take the earlier (excellent) idea that this ship could slot either warp or singularity cores; it would be a great statement by Cryptic that they have faith in their game balance between the two.

I would also love to see squadrons of D7s floating outside ESD.

artan42

davidwford wrote: »

My addition would be to give it the unique ability to slot both a singularity and warp core. The question becomes either one in the same slot OR allow the unusual ability to slot one of each simultaneously. Likewise, a similar ship could be released for the KDF that would allow for the same thing. Another question would be battlecloak or normal cloak.

They were just captured Klingon ships, the only modifications the Romulans made was re-painting them. They most likely still had the standard Klingon cloak in as well, so no battle cloak.

bltrrn

If you haven't noticed, the Avenger, and it's variants, are pretty much T5/T6 Connies already.

For a T6 Stormbird, I approve.

artan42

patrickngo wrote: »

NOT captured! The Romulans bought them from the Klingons during the period when the two empires were allied-because the Klingon ships were faster than the Romulans at the time could build a ship to go.

Please provide the episode of the TV show where any sort of canon alliance and trade agreement was set up between the Romulans and Klingons for me please.

Until that episode magically appears they simplest answer is that the ships were captured as trophies or to reverse engineer.

protogoth

tolmarius wrote: »

I will point out that the Romulan D7s were bought from the Klingons. They came with warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity cores. They are designed that way. The Klingon ships are designed for warp cores. They would likely required massive alterations to handle a singularity.

D7s were obtained from the Klingons during a previous alliance. The V-11 Stormbird Akif was what the Romulans constructed based on the D7, and these were the ships used in TEI (according to deuterocanonical sources).

artan42 wrote: »

Please provide the episode of the TV show where any sort of canon alliance and trade agreement was set up between the Romulans and Klingons for me please.

Until that episode magically appears they simplest answer is that the ships were captured as trophies or to reverse engineer.

We've been through this before. I see no need to rehash the same old debate when you refused to accept the evidence even of the previous alliance before. Canon is irrelevant to this discussion (STO uses deuterocanonical sources, and you are aware of the Path to 2409, whether you like what it says or not), so take your fundamentalism elsewhere.

chipg7

artan42 wrote: »

Please provide the episode of the TV show where any sort of canon alliance and trade agreement was set up between the Romulans and Klingons for me please.

Until that episode magically appears they simplest answer is that the ships were captured as trophies or to reverse engineer.

This is a widely-known fact. But, I'll give you the reference.

Memory-Alpha notes that the D7 was shared with the Romulans, and lists the Star Trek Chronology as the source of the alliance. The Chronology itself is a Paramount-licensed work, written by the Okudas.

For an on-camera reference, a line was added to the TNG episode Reunion referencing the previous Klingon-Romulan alliance, specifically to support the cross-use of the D7 model, as well as to explain some long-standing connections between the two empires - largely in support of Duras' connections to the Romulans.

tolmarius

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Romulan-Klingon_Alliance

artan42

chipg7 wrote: »

This is a widely-known fact. But, I'll give you the reference.

Memory-Alpha notes that the D7 was shared with the Romulans, and lists the Star Trek Chronology as the source of the alliance. The Chronology itself is a Paramount-licensed work, written by the Okudas.

For an on-camera reference, a line was added to the TNG episode Reunion referencing the previous Klingon-Romulan alliance, specifically to support the cross-use of the D7 model, as well as to explain some long-standing connections between the two empires - largely in support of Duras' connections to the Romulans.

It is widely know non canon speculation.

I have read the article, I have seen the episode, 'Romulans are now using Klingon Designs'.

There is still no canon evidence for a trade of ships between the Romulans and the Klingons in the TOS era, the ONLY reference to a alliance of any sort between the two is in 'Reunion' with a off hand reference to a previous alliance, this is most likely the one from 'The Undiscovered Country'.

You can pull all the books or encyclopaedias you want, they are not canon, at least I acknowledge my view is only speculation, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense that the Romulans giving away the cloaking device for sod all in return.

protogoth wrote: »

We've been through this before. I see no need to rehash the same old debate when you refused to accept the evidence even of the previous alliance before. Canon is irrelevant to this discussion (STO uses deuterocanonical sources, and you are aware of the Path to 2409, whether you like what it says or not), so take your fundamentalism elsewhere.

Point to the evidence, never mind, I'll do it for you:

1. Romulans using D7s in TOS and TAS.
2. Klingons have cloaks in TOWK.
3. Riker implies a previous Klingon Romulan alliance.

so:

1. Derelict recovered hulks, mimicked designs, or captured vessels.
2. Romulans are not the only races with cloaking tech, the Suliban for instance, or the Klingons developed it themselves. Or the Xyrillians, who were known the Klingons.
3. The Romulans and Klingons allied against all common sense in TUC (with humans as well), very similar to the circumstances of 'Reunion'.

chipg7

artan42 wrote: »

It is widely know non canon speculation.

...

You can pull all the books or encyclopaedias you want, they are not canon, at least I acknowledge my view is only speculation, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense that the Romulans giving away the cloaking device for sod all in return.

Except, the Chronology is a canon reference. It was requested by Roddenberry, as a compilation of in-universe knowledge. It holds the same canon weight as a collection of Trek knowledge as the Encyclopedia. It was also written by people who helped produce the shows, and was accepted as official licensed content by Paramount.

The information listed in these sources is Trek fact, until any of it is discredited by onscreen evidence - at which point, they are updated and re-released to match. The Romulan-Klingon alliance is a fact that has yet to be denied onscreen, and in fact several references were made onscreen specifically to support the alliance.

If you want to ignore Trek canon and substitute it with your own headcanon, then that's your choice. I think it's strange that the RSE - which had been around for centuries prior to the 2200s - would be so willing to adopt a Klingon ship design in their fleet, even with modifications or alterations. But, it happened. I have to accept that. And it clearly served a prominent role in the RSE fleet.

lianthelia

Romulans don't have a need for obsolete Klingon technology anymore...I don't see why Romulans would be flying or building their own.

darkjediborg

Nice to see the Tal Diann still spouting their "superiority" complexes within the romulan game play forums.. make sense for a bunch of romulans who sold each other out.

Btw Tolmarius, next time don't be so obvious.

artan42

chipg7 wrote: »

Except, the Chronology is a canon reference. It was requested by Roddenberry, as a compilation of in-universe knowledge. It holds the same canon weight as a collection of Trek knowledge as the Encyclopedia. It was also written by people who helped produce the shows, and was accepted as official licensed content by Paramount.

That's not how it works, Star Trek canon is solely the TV series and the films, nothing else, licenced material, no matter how official, is not canon, even if it doesn't contradict the shows or films.

chipg7 wrote: »

and in fact several references were made onscreen specifically to support the alliance.

No. There was one and it was ambiguous as to when the Alliance happened, as I've already pointed out, in context it makes more sense to refer to TUC.

chipg7 wrote: »

If you want to ignore Trek canon and substitute it with your own headcanon, then that's your choice.

I'm not, I'm ignoring non canon material and making extrapolations based on actual canon i.e. the films and TV series.

chipg7 wrote: »

I think it's strange that the RSE - which had been around for centuries prior to the 2200s - would be so willing to adopt a Klingon ship design in their fleet, even with modifications or alterations. But, it happened. I have to accept that. And it clearly served a prominent role in the RSE fleet.

It played a minor role, it appeared in only a few episodes, there's nothing to suggest it was a mainstay of the Romulan fleet. I fully accept that they had D7's, what I don't accept is that they gave up the cloaking device for them, that would be the biggest tactical blunder in ST history.