test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

How can a bugged mission be released without.....

mattjohnsonvamattjohnsonva Member Posts: 4,974 Arc User
edited March 2015 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
internal testing?

I repeat, How can a bugged mission be released without internal testing?

This is not a complain post, I am genuinely interested to know how this kind of problem arises, where everyone who plays the mission experiences the same bugs at the same place.

If the game is tested by devs why do they not see the same bugs as us? Are they using a different build of the game on an internal system?

Or is it the case that nobody at Cryptic actually played the entire mission all the way through? The latter being a scenario I can't honestly believe.

The mission was great, I'm looking forward to trying it again now it's fixed, if indeed it is, but the question remains and I think it would be of great interest to the community to receive an honest answer.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«134

Comments

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My interpretation is that cryptic feels forced somehow to release new contend as fast as they can in order to get people to log into game. Same emphases they seem to show with events.

    Lack of quality due to bugs unfortunately results in a lot of frustration. Yesterday it was due to new mission bugs as well as access t trouble on a lot of peeps I know.

    I myself work a bit different there. I would not mind far less new contend being released as well of events taking place with much larger time intervals in between, if instead some “taken for granted” or permanent stuff would be tended to with more emphasis. Boffs disappearing from stations, empty queue lists. Such sort of thing.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • captainmal3captainmal3 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It'd be one thing if it were a bug that only happens sometimes, or that only happened if you went slightly off the rails. In those cases I could understand that maybe they just missed it. But this mission was literally impossible to complete normally, either something happened when the code went to holodeck (not a programmer, don't know if that's a possibility or not) or they never tested it even once.

    I'm glad it's fixed now of course, but I just find it hard to believe this went live, even with Cryptic's track record.
  • mackbolan01mackbolan01 Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bugged mission fixed !!!! yay !!!!!!!

    BRING BACK HOURLY EVENTS !!!!!!!!!!
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    unrealistic deadlines placed on the developers comes to mind
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I have no secret information source, but it's not too hard for me to imagine someone testing it, finding a few bugs, fixing them, and then it gets uploaded without further testing because the bugs were assumed fixed (maybe deadline pressure too).
  • quintarisquintaris Member Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Maybe they did test it, but if Redshirt and Tribble are different environments from Holodeck, maybe the bugs that were present when it went live didn't occur when it was in testing.
    w8xekp.jpg
  • nyxadrillnyxadrill Member Posts: 1,242 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My guess is that its play tested by the devs:

    a) on a development system that is different in some way to the live system (or tribble for that matter)

    b) not put through the correct QA procedures, IF at all.

    The fact that they add features to already bugged code confirms this to me, as does the fact that I've seen devs comment in this forum about how they cannot replicate issues that many players are finding. I almost get a feeling of "Well we cant see the issue so it must not exist" being the norm.
    server_hamster6.png
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    quintaris wrote: »
    Maybe they did test it, but if Redshirt and Tribble are different environments from Holodeck, maybe the bugs that were present when it went live didn't occur when it was in testing.

    That's or they accidentally shipped out a mission build one back from the "completed" state. I'll bring this company up because its a good point of reference for cryptic, but its not as if we're dealing with Bungie here. Where things go wrong with STO cryptic seems to be able of addressing them in a reasonable time frame. Mission broke? Within 24 hours they were on it. In Destiny, the raids still have similar progress blocking bugs to what we saw yesterday after months in the live game and presumably with much, much better financial support and technical resources to draw upon.

    STO has its hiccups [its a functional entity, of course it does] but Cryptic seems to have the where-with-all to respond to them in a constructive way. Perhaps not satisfactorily to all [particularly the pedants], but they fulfill their role adequately. They can function, they can maintain some sense of progress (these are demonstrable facts based on the state of the live game. Don't see it? Check your list of bugs against the history of release notes and see which is longer).

    There's still plenty of room to improve, but at the very least you can seriously consider the possibly [unlike with some other devs] that they might respond to problems better in the future than they have in the past.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    No one on these boards can answer that. People can speculate but we don't know what's going on at the studio.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • zathri83zathri83 Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    For whatever reason they chose pvpers for qa testers. Obviously.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    quintaris wrote: »
    Maybe they did test it, but if Redshirt and Tribble are different environments from Holodeck, maybe the bugs that were present when it went live didn't occur when it was in testing.

    ^this....just because it works correctly on tribble doesn't mean it will on holodeck....the 2 are hardly exact copies of eachother
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    nyxadrill wrote: »
    My guess is that its play tested by the devs:

    a) on a development system that is different in some way to the live system (or tribble for that matter)

    b) not put through the correct QA procedures, IF at all.

    The fact that they add features to already bugged code confirms this to me, as does the fact that I've seen devs comment in this forum about how they cannot replicate issues that many players are finding. I almost get a feeling of "Well we cant see the issue so it must not exist" being the norm.
    One thing they've mentioned in the past is that sometimes new stuff is buggy because it's incomplete rather than being coded wrong. They make it work in their internal test shard then attempt to port it to the live shard. Sometiems there are pieces missing when they're done. And the invisible Sela thing definitely sounds like a missing piece.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bobtheskull99 wrote: »
    ^this....just because it works correctly on tribble doesn't mean it will on holodeck....the 2 are hardly exact copies of eachother

    It also doesn't have the load of holodeck and that makes a big difference.

    Still, they've done better than this before. Not every new adventure for LoR had a bug that affected nearly every player and lately every new thing they release does. Something has gone south with development and they need to correct it.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    Which would be fine, except history shows that more often than not, bugs reported on Tribble during testing have a way of making it onto Holodeck as well. It's not like they don't know there are bugs. People who have tested on Tribble report them.

    I think it more likely this was a known bug and it was released anyway rather than delaying the schedule.
    Bugs reported on tribble do often get fixed before thigns go live, not always, but sometimes.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I get the distinct feeling that the test environments do not mirror Holodeck at all and that there is zero concept of a proper SDLC, sometimes...

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2015
    Missions do get tested. However, there are only so many people here we can have run through the mission, so many times. There are thousands more of you, running through it thousands of more times in a very short amount of time. We might not ever see a bug that only shows up 1/1000 runs, but it would show up a bunch for players.

    I don't know the specifics of this bug, nor this mission in general. But we do have a QA team, and they do run through new missions, many times.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
    19843299196_235e44bcf6_o.jpg
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    drakethewhite wrote: »
    It also doesn't have the load of holodeck and that makes a big difference.

    Still, they've done better than this before. Not every new adventure for LoR had a bug that affected nearly every player and lately every new thing they release does. Something has gone south with development and they need to correct it.
    Actually the LoR missions were pretty buggy on tribble. One of them in particular got drastically changed between Tribble and Live.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    On a brighter note, the artwork and environments on this one were really beautifully done. :)
    Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me....

    Hey Taco, when do we get these maps in Foundry? :P

    Hehe... you know we want all the things. :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • davideightdavideight Member Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    the bug is, that when you die in the energy-maze room, you respawn at the point behind the riddle entrapped on a platform, that is closed cause the riddle wasnt solved. it occurrs 100% of the time you die.

    so sry to say it but your QA team didnt do its job.

    since dieing is a regular occurrence, you also have to test, what happens if someone dies. you didnt, and i BET all the money in the world that this particular bug WAS FOUND ON TRIBBLE, but didnt get fixed prior to release. most bugs are known on tribble and get released yet.

    and that is what we actually complain about: bug are found and mentioned, yet noone cares to fix it prior to release.

    holodeck feels like a beta server, while tribble may be the alpha server.

    i also would like to know if your team has ever considered "researching" about why certain nasty bugs always "reappear". (a hint, its because the coders dont use the latest, fixed build but an older one)

    it just doesnt feel like quality. and thats why business goals arent met. cause people wont pay poor QA released things.

    this is not only for missions, but ships and UI as well.


    i dont want to be mean here personally really, but you should somehow reconsider your overall-workflow. i know its timewindows, low budget and such. but we arent paying a low budget at all. many of us pay you better per month blizzard ever got payed, yet the quality is really below a minimum line sometimes.

    i mean: i played many foundry missions, and somehow i never had this kind of "it makes it incompletable" bug around them. so obviously a bunch of players can do it better with testing than you?

    sry really dont want to be mean. but thats the truth.
  • gamer940gamer940 Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    Which would be fine, except history shows that more often than not, bugs reported on Tribble during testing have a way of making it onto Holodeck as well. It's not like they don't know there are bugs. People who have tested on Tribble report them.

    I think it more likely this was a known bug and it was released anyway rather than delaying the schedule.

    I would not doubt if developer testing was primarily done on a private server separate from both Tribble and Redshirt (did the new mission even show up on Tribble?) and that the bugs you see when it comes to Holodeck are merely a result of porting from a private server to a public and live one.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    I'm sure you do have people playing through the mission as it's intended to be played. I just can't see how something as glaring as Sela not appearing for the final part of the mission getting missed, since in my experience everyone who played the mission pre-emergency patch had the exact same issue.

    On a brighter note, the artwork and environments on this one were really beautifully done. :)


    Again, I don't know the specifics on this one. But there are definitely bugs that ONLY show up once it goes to Holodeck. That's about as much as I can tell you.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
    19843299196_235e44bcf6_o.jpg
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Actually the LoR missions were pretty buggy on tribble. One of them in particular got drastically changed between Tribble and Live.

    Then as I said, that rollout was done correctly. If they could do it then, they should be able to continue to do it. So something has changed for the worse.

    I hope it improves. This hasn't ruined the game for me, but it makes it really hard to cheer for it or recommend it to friends.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Again, I don't know the specifics on this one. But there are definitely bugs that ONLY show up once it goes to Holodeck. That's about as much as I can tell you.

    personally I think cryptics Tribble version is corrupted with bad code nothing else makes sense if it works on tribble but doesn't work on holodeck

    Or the version of the game you guys use in the Office :P
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Sign In or Register to comment.