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STO vs SWTOR vs DLC's & the ship 3 pack / Specialization bundles
aelfwin1
Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
STO's monetary / F2P model has always been talked about as "all the content is free" , while at the same time presenting players with "optional purchases" .
SWTOR's monetary model has been often summed up as "if you want to enjoy the game as it was intended , you'd better sub / pay" .
Blending the two "models" are many of the stand alone games on the market :
Get the game & play the game -- but if you want to enjoy the game as it was intended , buy DLC (aka the stuff they ripped out and offered as a DLC) .
But in STO , things have slowly evolved :
- At first you had C-Store purchases (along with subs) .
-Then you had the "hunt for that one special ship (Lockboxes)" -- that like it's C-Store equivalent , it also had at best one or two "special powers" .
- But now you have the "ship 3 pack's / Specialization bundles" -- which in essence no longer sell one or two powers (+1 ship skin) but a host of powers with a few ship skins (remember that these ships also have special consoles , and console synergy along side the "Specialization Boff seats") .
Thus , the sheer amount of stuff offered to buy (per one single ship 3 pack / Specialization bundle) does in a way bring the game closer to a DLC based game then the stand alone game it was with the C-store & Lockbox purchases .
The gaming content is still free .
But the focus has shifted dramatically toward creating more of the equivalent to purchasable DLC content .
And that rounds things up by going back towards the evaluation of SWTOR : "if you want to enjoy the game as it was intended , you'd better pay" .
... and yes , I know that they have to make money , and no , this is not about that at all . It's more akin to the the creators @ Cryptic having less players enjoy what they have worked hard on as more and more will come to be more picky & choosy as more mediocre & stupid OP powers will be sold this way (to be nerfed later on) ...
SWTOR's monetary model has been often summed up as "if you want to enjoy the game as it was intended , you'd better sub / pay" .
Blending the two "models" are many of the stand alone games on the market :
Get the game & play the game -- but if you want to enjoy the game as it was intended , buy DLC (aka the stuff they ripped out and offered as a DLC) .
But in STO , things have slowly evolved :
- At first you had C-Store purchases (along with subs) .
-Then you had the "hunt for that one special ship (Lockboxes)" -- that like it's C-Store equivalent , it also had at best one or two "special powers" .
- But now you have the "ship 3 pack's / Specialization bundles" -- which in essence no longer sell one or two powers (+1 ship skin) but a host of powers with a few ship skins (remember that these ships also have special consoles , and console synergy along side the "Specialization Boff seats") .
Thus , the sheer amount of stuff offered to buy (per one single ship 3 pack / Specialization bundle) does in a way bring the game closer to a DLC based game then the stand alone game it was with the C-store & Lockbox purchases .
The gaming content is still free .
But the focus has shifted dramatically toward creating more of the equivalent to purchasable DLC content .
And that rounds things up by going back towards the evaluation of SWTOR : "if you want to enjoy the game as it was intended , you'd better pay" .
... and yes , I know that they have to make money , and no , this is not about that at all . It's more akin to the the creators @ Cryptic having less players enjoy what they have worked hard on as more and more will come to be more picky & choosy as more mediocre & stupid OP powers will be sold this way (to be nerfed later on) ...
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Unfortunate too. Maybe even for Cryptic. I'd love to fly Korath with just the looks... and that's it, but Cryptic has made it to where that it is outside of my budget in both money and time. So.... I don't spend money. Add to that Cryptic really hasn't introduced anything great in the t6 line up IMO so... I won't be spending that much money. I might pay to upgrade Doff amounts with the Delta Recruit and until Cryptic introduces something I care about beyond that... no money for them.
Now if things were cheaper... I might be more encourages to open my wallet. But 30 for a digital item feels like an investment.
In principle STOs model is fine for what it is but it doesn't make it a better game as a whole. And their prices are almost obscene - 30 bucks for a ship that are often released in "packs" and recently in a few weeks terminus - no, you don't have to own them all, but still, those prices are way out of bound. Every ship is the equivalent of other games expansion packs or certain full games.
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Tor is, essentially, a sub based mmo with a space barbie cash shop that works very well for them. Actually having end game content helps too. The actual number of people playing is what makes this model so workable.
Sto, while still excelling at space barbie, has no true end game content. The store is filled with power creep, and some space barbie. The low population and the decreasing time between adding new shineys makes this model only work if ya got a lot of stupid rich nerds hooked.
I guess the only comparisson that can be drawn between the two is, grown men like playing dress-up. Tor sells vanity and p2w pigtails. Sto sells empty lockboxes and power creep. Two different models at two different ends of the "f2p" spectrum.
Also, when I did play I was able to play the expansions (or DLC) after it had been out for a time, but it was still free, just not early access. I didn't spend too much time in TOR, so I am not sure if some of it was locked out to me, and I just didn't realize it.
If someone that plays TOR could clarify this for me. Like I said, I was not playing it long, and have not played it for a while.
Where is your evidence for these numbers? Cryptic loves being cryptic about these types of numbers. Steamcharts doesn't count since only a fraction of players use Steam and it only measures how many players are on at a given time not how many players logged in for the day.
Some of the content in SWTOR are given to F2Pers after a few months have passed like Galactic Starfighters and their housing feature, but Expansions require you to pay for them. The only two expansions in SWTOR is Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadow of Revan.
Is there any way to gain access to them from their exchange, or is the only way to purchase the expansion itself?
And thank you for the information.
Due to being disabled, I have no income, and have to play F2P games. I have had friends buy things for me in F2P games before, but after the turn some of those games took, I don't want someone to do that for me again.
At least in sto I can find a couple of things to buy but
the majority of stuff has to do with the lottery and I cannot do that and
They rarely release anything worthwhile for the kdf
Buy sub and add the security key, you'll get 600cc, a solid leveling experience, and access to practically the entire game with the possible exception of story expacs. But not to worry, since before that there's plenty of ques and it's a long way to 50. I'd recommend the Imperial Agent. yeah, you're not rolling around with a lightsaber, but's frankly the best story they have.
Also, some stuff are simply locked, no matter what. For example the 3rd crew skill (IE craft, with only 2 crew skill, and a single one if you never paid a dime, you can't craft anything, you either need another char, or the exchange). Or skillbars.
Then SWTOR have a list of restriction so long, you'll take about an hour reading it. No seriously, it's a very long list.
Right, SWTOR f2p isn't as much f2p as it is demo. Again, it's apples to oranges because the sub takes care of all of that. It's really a sub based game with an f2p demo with strong benefits to those who pay. Those who don't... oh well. But the game ranks high on Forbes lists of most profitable MMOs every year so they must be dong something right.
/thread
To be honest, I do like the series, and movies from both franchises. The only reason that I didn't keep playing SWTOR is because something just didn't click when I was playing. You know, that feeling that you get when you find a game that you just love.
Back in 2013 when I started playing STO (my first MMO by the way), I had that feeling. Things have changed in the game that have made me lose that feeling, but hopefully changes to the game to improve game play with bring that back.
Right now, I am more interested in something that is more than just fighting all the time. If I had the money, I would be playing Elite Dangerous. But that is just because from what I have seen, it seems to have a more realistic feel to it in ship controls, and that you can do more than just fight all the time to progress.
I hope that they will eventually get away from the DPS, and power creep sells long enough to make something more for STO than fighting. But since we are in the final war, I doubt that will happen. It is a war. lol.
Did you ever try the Mass Effect franchise?
The challenge for any f2p system is create a business model that first:
1) Is profitable
2) Actually generates something great for the players. I think games can survive for a while just with 1, but I suspect they'll eventually struggle because they can't sustain players.
I think STO for the longest time has had the problem that "story content" was not really profitable. They promised to never sell story content, but that also means they can never diretly make money from it. It's always an indirect effect - people keep playing the game or return to the game for the new story, and thus maybe also have a reason to spend money on the game, or provide incentive for others to spend money to the game.
I think with Delta Rising, they are trying to get better in this regard. DR itself has the levelling grind - you can't just log in once and see the new mission and leave. Many of the missions require a level you first have to reach, and can't reach with the missions alone.
The more time people spend playing the game, the more likely it is they spend money on it.
The latest missions now feature a slow unlock of rewards. So people hear of the mission, join the game, play the new mission, and learn there is a set that they can get if they come back a week later - again making it more likely that the player stays active for an extended time.
I don't like the level requirement that much, because it just breaks the mission flow, but the slow reward unlock sounds like a very benign system. I hope it works out for them and they don't need to use less benign methods.
If story content becomes more profitable, it means we'll see more of it. I think that will be good for all of us.
And depending on your choices, you can become a Republic double agent or in charge of the new Imperial Intelligence. The other class stories are far more linear.
Yes, I did on 360. I ended up getting bored in the third one, and just watched all of the different endings that others posted on youtube. I know that some really love the game, and I am not bashing it. It just was a lot of fighting, like a lot of other games. They just did a lot better story, and they also did the combat better than some.
I would recommend that to someone that wants a solo game, and wants a long running story from one to the other. They really did a good job on that.
Actually, if someone just comes back for the new episode, then leaves, all that DR did was make them stay in the game a little longer before they leave again. Once those players hit level 60, they are gone again.
These types of players are not usually the collectors in the game, and they probably have ground gear from the rep systems. If so, a lot of them will run it once, then stop. If they need the gear, collect stuff, or they want the upgrade items to help offset the extreme cost of upgrades, then they may run it again two more times. But that is just once a week for the next two weeks.
With DR, they had the chance to change the way they did endgame content. They could have made it a fun, and entertaining grind that players enjoyed, and were willing to spend money on it no matter what.
Instead, the ones in charge decided to make it an extreme grind, and to introduce huge Dil sinks that didn't need to be anywhere near as high as they were, except to make money off of it. And, they sell power creep in the C-Store because they try to feed the whales.
If they wanted to make content that would keep players in the game longer, there is a way to have a long-term grind (that doesn't have short-term goals locked behind it), and it doesn't feel like you are punished for making it to level 50.
Look at proficiency in other games. Basically, the longer you use a specific type of weapon, the better you get with it. That was one long-term system they could have introduced. With each level of the proficiency a type (cannon, dual heavy cannon, beam array, dual beam bank, torpedoes, etc) a small increase to something for that weapon would be added. They could cap this system today, then increase it months, or even years later.
Each increase is very small, but over time they add up to be very potent.
For content, they could have made more episodes, instead of relying on patrols to level players up. This, along with making the level progression from 50-60 go at the same pace as leveling from 1-50 would have kept a lot from leaving.
The Cap Spec system is a good start for a long-term system. However, when they tied it into the leveling system, and also locked short-term goals behind it, the short-term goals made it a short-term system that just take a very, very long time to achieve.
If they remove everything that is a short-term goal, that is locked behind it, then it would help out a lot.
For the queued content, if they had stuck to what they said it would have been, with normal being the same, advance being slightly harder than the old elite, and the elite for elite players, that would have also helped to keep more players.
Instead, they give NPCs uber-hp pools for shields and hull, and they don't even have elite difficulty for some of the queues. With no elite difficulty, they were adjusting the advance for elite players that were steamrolling them. This made some of them very close to elite difficulty.
There were a lot of things that could have been done to improve the gameplay, and also encourage long-term play, without it feeling like a ridiculous grind. Thankfully they have seen this, and are starting to do something about it with the Advance difficulty queses.
I just hope that it isn't too late for a lot of the players that left, and lost interest all together in STO. I hope that they can fix enough of the mistakes made with DR to bring them back. I would like to also see enough changes to make the game as fun for me as it was before.
STO used to be the only game I played. I would love for it to be again because I am ADHD, and it is hard for me to find a game that is all about fighting that I like as much as I did STO. I usually prefer games that offer more that fighting, but most all of them require you to buy it, or a sub. And being disabled, I have no income.
Just look at the assets request thread over in the Art subforum; plenty of things that haven't made it in despite players having asked for them for a long time. As well, the few times the tailor has glitched; players have found plenty of things in there that still hasn't been made available to them to wear.
Players have been asking for access to those assets and then some, and yet Cryptic refuses to capitalize on the 5-10 dollar purchases they'd be easily making just by releasing already available code and just tweaking it for their new model/body system (if they haven't already; since NPCs also were also affected by the upgraded body system).
Same goes for alternative ship skins and overlays, such as paying for access to Mirror ship skins (bundled sets every couple of ships, with 3+ ship bundles already including them as a free bonus) or a Reputation quest to unlock the Reputation Shield skins. Aegis, Dominion, and Breen skins could be unlocked via the Lobi store.
So no, STO doesn't excel at Space Barbie.
I stopped to be a sub. luckily for me I had enough cc to buy all unlock of special gears limitation, account bank, etc. but ya, if you don't pay ? then you don't play. you can't make raid if u don't play, you r limited on pve queue content, etc.
I stated to play sto when it was released f2p. 1 week after I bought a lifetime.
and ya 30 bucks for a ship is too much I find.
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They even stopped selling ship costume. In fact, the only thing they keep adding to the store since years, are new ships (hardly space barbie, since they have unique boff layout, stats, consoles and now trait), new "pack" (R&D, doff...). And they keep selling keys for the box. All of that is absolutely not space barbie.
STO cash shop may have been space barbie when f2p hit, but it was a long time ago.
*cough cough* Intel uniform, Talaxian outfits, lobi store outfits, winter event, summer event, rep armors *cough cough*
I'm feeling really sick for some reason. No idea
Ok , let me ask this in a different way :
So far , how many Lockboxes were released per year ? Something like 3-4 , right ?
So right now , (post DR) we have not only 3-4 Lockbox releases per year , but also (seemingly) 3-4 Specializations (and their related Ship Bundles) per year .
What does that mean (both in terms of our purchasing power and in terms of Cryptic's ability to crank out new powers & abilities) ?
Does it mean :
- A split of purchases by players -- when some players will have to decide between that Lockbox ship and that Specialization ship / bundle ?
And does this mean less Lockbox ships being won / sold on the EC market , which may cause an inflation in an already problematic EC market ?
- Is Cryptic "double dipping" (in a more hardcore way then the previous Lockboxes + C-Store) ?
- Has Cryptic experienced a drop in Lockbox earnings that had to be supplemented in another way ?
- Or is this a new business model , that favors a "harder squeezing" of the playerbase in general (as well as the "Whales") ?
While I don't have a firm opinion as of yet one way or another at this point , I am concerned that at one point (perhaps sooner rather then later) we will reach both a saturation of powers / ships / Boff's (as even now some powers that are introduced are just tweaks & re-brandings of existing powers) -- but on a longer term I'm also concerned that with the rapid release of so many abilities we will also :
a) reach a point where Cryptic won't be able to generate any actually interesting abilities .
b) we will also reach a saturation point that ... well it amounts to "where do we go from here" -- in terms of what they release now being a maelstrom of Boff powers and ship consoles & synergies .
... I mean , what can top a ton of Boff powers & ship consoles & synergies ... ?
This. I would pay to have a Galaxy costume look on my Guardian cruiser, (or any number of other cruisers) but Cryptic doesn't want my money. Why they allow the Intrepid look on the Pathway, I have no idea.
That's not true, SWTOR devs consider Galactic Strongholds and Galactic Starfighter were also expansions.
While STO's true numbers are a mystery, TOR's numbers are definitely bigger to the point its one of the top ten f2p MMOs in the world.
Calling Galactic Strongholds and Galactic Starfighter expansions is just like calling Fleet Starbases and the Reputation system expansions. You can't compare Season 6 to Legacy of Romulus just like you can't compare Galactic Starfighter to Shadow of Revan.
Great writeup Bwemo!
Add to that they actually care about PVP, no pay2win bullsh*t only pay for cosmetics and convenience. It even has some form of Space PvP. Ok its not like STO, but ground in TOR is like 10x better to compensate, and some worlds are quite awesome too!
even open world pvp ;O
Either way, Cryptic/PWE has made a huge mistake selling TRIBBLE that makes you better for money, it is not fun and not necessary to say the least. But I guess it fits in the picture of PWE's quick profits tactic. Eventually games like this will fail.
BYE
A litle bit more horizontal progression would be fine, less shineys, more improvements like the upcomming space sector(wich actually was what made me join STO after 5years game release).
Given that both of those "things" were small in comparison to the other two, they still came with enough stuff to put Delta Rising to shame.