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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Retrofit of STO

dmtdmt Member Posts: 194 Arc User
edited March 2015 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
This thread will probably be deleted, and will certainly be hated, but what the hell.

Upon reaching level 40, instead of becoming Rear Admiral (Lower & Upper), Brigadier/Major General and Subadmiral (I & II), the player should become Vice Admiral (Fed & Rom) or Lieutenant General (KDF) with access to ALL Tier 5 starships and Mk IX & Mk X equipment.

Upon reaching level 50 players should become Admiral (Fed & Rom) or General (KDF) with access to all Tier 6 & 5U starships and Mk XI & Mk XII equipment.

Upon reaching level 60 players should become Fleet Admiral or Dahar Master, able to use Mk XIII & (hypothetical) Mk XIV equipment, as well as having access to (hypothetical) Tier 7 starships.

Thank You for reading.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • frontline2042frontline2042 Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Personally I'd like to get rid of the level system entirely and just use skill points and spec points instead. To get tX ships you have to earn Y skill points. And let us continue to earn skill points after level cap to Mac out our skill trees in addition to earning spec points.
    Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
    Let the stupid suffer
  • morden613morden613 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Mk XIV is not hypothetical. It already exists.

    However, I agree with you.
  • peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Erm... Isn't that what we have now?:confused:

    (not counting hypothetical tier 7 ships)
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • dmtdmt Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Yes Mk XIV already exists but under the system proposed in the OP there wouldn't be a Mk XIV until Cryptic created the level 61 - 70 area of the game.

    Under current system we go (Fed ranking)
    Rear Admiral Lower Half: levels 40 - 44, Mk IX & X equipment, some Tier 5 ships (for example D'Kyr cruiser)
    Rear Admiral Upper Half: levels 45 - 49, Mk XI & XII equipment, no starships
    Vice Admiral: levels 50 - 54, Mk XIII & Mk XIV equipment, the rest of Tier 5 (Odyssey, Tactical Retrofit) and all of Tier 6
    Admiral: levels 55 - 59: nothing
    Fleet Admiral: level 60: nothing
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    peetapipmac wrote: »
    Erm... Isn't that what we have now?:confused:

    (not counting hypothetical tier 7 ships)
    I think the OP is complaining that he needs to Craft Mk XIV gear and buy T6 ships rather then just getting them for free simply because he made level 60. Maybe? :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • jaymclaughlinjaymclaughlin Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Personally I think we should max out at Captain... it's stupid having so many fleet admirals flying about.

    If it was good enough for Kirk and Picard, it's good enough for me
    animated.gif
  • alexvio1alexvio1 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    peetapipmac wrote: »
    Erm... Isn't that what we have now?

    Nope. We can use T6 ship at L40 and it was a stupid idea. We cannot use some T5 ships at L40 but can use T6 ships...
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jaymclaughlin wrote: »
    Personally I think we should max out at Captain... it's stupid having so many fleet admirals flying about.

    If it was good enough for Kirk and Picard, it's good enough for me
    If you consider that you are not actually playing with 100,000 other people, and those 100,000 other people are not all doing the same missions you already did, then being an Admiral makes some sense. You have to think of STO in terms of just your story.

    STO is a SPG disguised as an MMO - by throwing team Content into the mix.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    dmt wrote: »
    This thread will probably be deleted, and will certainly be hated, but what the hell.

    Upon reaching level 40, instead of becoming Rear Admiral (Lower & Upper), Brigadier/Major General and Subadmiral (I & II), the player should become Vice Admiral (Fed & Rom) or Lieutenant General (KDF) with access to ALL Tier 5 starships and Mk IX & Mk X equipment.

    Upon reaching level 50 players should become Admiral (Fed & Rom) or General (KDF) with access to all Tier 6 & 5U starships and Mk XI & Mk XII equipment.

    Upon reaching level 60 players should become Fleet Admiral or Dahar Master, able to use Mk XIII & (hypothetical) Mk XIV equipment, as well as having access to (hypothetical) Tier 7 starships.

    Star Trek Online is a free to play MMO. Its supported by a micro-transaction based economy where instead of an obligatory $60 price tag you may choose instead to spend as little or as much as you want for new content. The emphasis there is "as little" because with dilithium you can earn just about everything there is to STO through patience and prudent spending.

    There is no need for this game to unlock all content for everyone based on level.

    If instead STO was a retail RPG, then yes unlocking the zen-marketplace at 40, 50, and 60 might have value but that would only be arguable if you could say that this game would perform better with an entirely different economic model (one which incidentally would force you to open your wallet for access. There's no flexibility with standard retail).

    As you haven't, I think we can end it there. If you're not happy with what you don't have plan your dil expenditures better (and prioritize).
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I think we should all be captains since there isn't much admiral tasks out there to do
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
  • jaymclaughlinjaymclaughlin Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    If you consider that you are not actually playing with 100,000 other people, and those 100,000 other people are not all doing the same missions you already did, then being an Admiral makes some sense. You have to think of STO in terms of just your story.

    STO is a SPG disguised as an MMO - by throwing team Content into the mix.

    I did less missions than Picard before I outranked him! haha

    It should stop at Captain, and from then on, the specialisation trees start
    animated.gif
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jaymclaughlin wrote: »
    I did less missions than Picard before I outranked him! haha

    It should stop at Captain, and from then on, the specialisation trees start
    A lot of those episodes are not about Picard doing things, but rather other people on the crew doing things. So maybe many of those episodes were about Data, or Worf, or whomever earning XP rather then Picard. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • dmtdmt Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My complaint is that from Lieutenant to Captain, and pre-Delta Rising Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral, the game follows a easy to understand Rank, Tier, Mark system.

    If you were Lieutenant Commander it was Tier 2 and Mk III & IV.

    Now the Admiralty ranks seem clumsy and overpopulated: instead of 5 different ranks why not just have 3.

    I would keep the C-store as I understand that it is how the game makes money. The changes would simply bring the Admiralty in line with the thirty-nine levels that came before them. My reference to "all starships" was meant to mean that reaching the proper level will allow a player to obtain a ship of the corresponding tier any way they choose (lockbox, c-store etc)
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    dmt wrote: »
    My complaint is that from Lieutenant to Captain, and pre-Delta Rising Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral, the game follows a easy to understand Rank, Tier, Mark system.

    If you were Lieutenant Commander it was Tier 2 and Mk III & IV.

    Now the Admiralty ranks seem clumsy and overpopulated: instead of 5 different ranks why not just have 3.

    I would keep the C-store as I understand that it is how the game makes money. The changes would simply bring the Admiralty in line with the thirty-nine levels that came before them. My reference to "all starships" was meant to mean that reaching the proper level will allow a player to obtain a ship of the corresponding tier any way they choose (lockbox, c-store etc)
    As I stated above, you have to think of STO as a SPG. Starfleet does not really have 2 million battleships flying around. 2 million Captains flying around in Odysseys is just as unbelievable 2 million Fleet Admirals in Guardians.

    And as far a why all the Admiral ranks, because they are in canon. Upper Half, Lower Half, etc, they are all used in canon; thus they are in the game.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    dmt wrote: »
    My complaint is that from Lieutenant to Captain, and pre-Delta Rising Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral, the game follows a easy to understand Rank, Tier, Mark system.

    If you were Lieutenant Commander it was Tier 2 and Mk III & IV.

    Now the Admiralty ranks seem clumsy and overpopulated: instead of 5 different ranks why not just have 3.

    I would keep the C-store as I understand that it is how the game makes money. The changes would simply bring the Admiralty in line with the thirty-nine levels that came before them. My reference to "all starships" was meant to mean that reaching the proper level will allow a player to obtain a ship of the corresponding tier any way they choose (lockbox, c-store etc)

    Hmmm, I see now. Yah we do oddly have a two tiers between 40 and 50 which is probably nothing more now than an artifact of old STO. It would help to simplify the transition from 40 to 50 to unlock all T5 from level 40. It would also make more sense for equipment to progress as you've suggested but there is one very big problem with applying that change to the live game: players between 45-49 would be locked out of their XI gear and likewise for players 50-59 with XIII+.

    I think you have the right idea with ships but in terms of managing a population/community I don't think that equipment should follow the most sensible progression possible for the current leveling system. You'd have to argue that taking equipment away from people would be worth some beurocratic restructuring. Cryptic could do it none the less, but it wouldn't be a helpful move. Rather, I think that lower equipment tiers should be rescaled so that at 30+ you, say, have access to VII, VIII, and IX with 40+ unlocking X, XI, and XII (50+ remains unchanged.) That would still be uneven but it would set only one tier between 40 and 50 (and therefore fewer types of admirals) and the STO community would only be faced with fewer restrictions on old gear.


    BTW, why did you think that this idea would be heretical? Killing the c-store, now that's a "gonna hate me, lololololol" topic. But tweaking the leveling system unlock order? That's sensible discourse.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • jjdezjjdez Member Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    A lot of those episodes are not about Picard doing things, but rather other people on the crew doing things. So maybe many of those episodes were about Data, or Worf, or whomever earning XP rather then Picard. :)

    Oh man, I want you to imagine Worf doing a combat roll and having a mine fall out of trousers halfway through... lmao

    Can you imagine a full crew of people with specialization trees? That would be so OP Starfleet would have to nerf it, but only after everyone had it.
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    said it once and ill say it again.

    U can select your rank as a title and my main is a fleet Admiral, all my other fed toons are captains in his fleet.

    My rommie and ferasan are a different story but i have fewer of them.
    0bzJyzP.gif





    "It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
  • dmtdmt Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    duncanidaho11 wrote: »
    Hmmm, I see now. Yah we do oddly have a two tiers between 40 and 50 which is probably nothing more now than an artifact of old STO. It would help to simplify the transition from 40 to 50 to unlock all T5 from level 40. It would also make more sense for equipment to progress as you've suggested but there is one very big problem with applying that change to the live game: players between 45-49 would be locked out of their XI gear and likewise for players 50-59 with XIII+.

    I think you have the right idea with ships but in terms of managing a population/community I don't think that equipment should follow the most sensible progression possible for the current leveling system. You'd have to argue that taking equipment away from people would be worth some beurocratic restructuring. Cryptic could do it none the less, but it wouldn't be a helpful move. Rather, I think that lower equipment tiers should be rescaled so that at 30+ you, say, have access to VII, VIII, and IX with 40+ unlocking X, XI, and XII (50+ remains unchanged.) That would still be uneven but it would set only one tier between 40 and 50 (and therefore fewer types of admirals) and the STO community would only be faced with fewer restrictions on old gear.


    BTW, why did you think that this idea would be heretical? Killing the c-store, now that's a "gonna hate me, lololololol" topic. But tweaking the leveling system unlock order? That's sensible discourse.

    I did say that the thread would be hated for what it suggests.

    Also the Mark system means that even-numbered items are better than the standard:
    Liutenant Commander can use both Mk III & IV equipment from level 20 but Mk IV is better. Based on the last 'endgame' rank the only people losing out are those with Mk XIV gear. Sorry
  • roadghostroadghost Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jaymclaughlin wrote: »
    Personally I think we should max out at Captain... it's stupid having so many fleet admirals flying about.

    If it was good enough for Kirk and Picard, it's good enough for me

    Agree, the one thing I always thought was klunky was the ranks and being give command of a starship at graduation. It felt like being in JJ universe.

    1-9 Ensign - All the missions you should be a crew member. Since all the early missions are right around Sol, why not have your first ship be a runabout or something that would make sense for an ensign to be in charge of. You only get 1-2 boffs at this time, so a buzz around the neighborhood ship would make sense. You orders are given by the captain, and for space stuff he sends you out in the shuttle.

    10-19 Lt JG - Still not your "own" ship, but more of a senior officer. Still taking orders from the captain. Doff roster thing for Boffs would have to be reworked since you couldn't have one of your underlings be the First Officer yet. For a ship, maybe you rescue a junker one that is adrift and your captain puts you in charge of it as you head back to ESD with it.

    20-29 Lt - Maybe here you are a first officer. The ship is better, but still not "yours". You received orders from Starfleet but they are presented as orders to the ship, not you as the captain of it.

    30-39 Lt Cmdr - Now the ship is yours. Realistically, how long is it taking people to level up to 30 anyway? I saw a post from a guy who said he was brand new to STO and had made it to level 54 in a week. So people are taking what... a day or two to get to 30?

    40-49 Cmdr

    50+ - Captain

    I think they could keep the Admiral rank, but it should be tied to fleets and not give any bonus. Just a title. Fleet leader of a fleet with <10 players is a Rear Admiral Lower. 10-49 players is a Rear Admiral upper. 50-99 is a Vice Admiral. 100-499 is an Admiral. 500+ is a Fleet Admiral. Make fleets a little more relevant.

    Anyway just a thought.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    nickcastleton wrote: »
    said it once and ill say it again.

    U can select your rank as a title and my main is a fleet Admiral, all my other fed toons are captains in his fleet.

    My rommie and ferasan are a different story but i have fewer of them.

    I think the point to emphasize is that the tiers are structured thusly

    30-39: Captain
    40-44: Admiral
    45-49: Admiral
    50-54: Admiral
    55-59: Admiral
    60: Admiral

    Hence too many admirals, While equipment goes

    30-39: Mk 7 and 8 (T4)
    40-44: Mk 9 and 10 (T5)
    45-49: Mk 11 and 12 (more T5)
    50-60: Mk 13 and 14 (more T5, T5U, and T6)

    You can simplify in both cases to perhaps

    30-39: Captain (mk 7/8/9 - T4)
    40-49: Admiral (mk 10/11/12 - T5)
    50-59: Admiral (mk 13/14 - T6 and T5U)
    60: Lord Admiral Bossy Pants (some day, mk 15 and T7)

    with the 3 mk grades in T4 and T5 to simplify the process while avoiding locking any existing player out of currently equipped gear. Existing titles and clothing unlocks for redundant admiral grades would be left as is, while new characters could unlock them for progressing up to the next highest tier.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
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