Multiple Torpedo Launcher and a Global cooldown

jaydenomega812

Ok...we've all seen them. Those people using ships with enhanced cloaks just firing torpedoes. No big deal but where I have a problem is you can activate a spread 3 wait 15 seconds fire that then activate a hy3 and fire it at the same time especially when running 2 torpedo launchers. Now with the Sheshar trait you can get a 2nd high yield torpedo as well in the mix. So within 5 seconds one ship with an enhanced cloak no less can fire off 2 high yield torpedoes and a spread 3. This is quite a power creep issue.

To deal with it I would recommend either a shorter active time for a torpedo enhancement such as high yield (currently its 30 seconds long), or a longer time for the Global cooldown on torpedo enhancements (currently its 15 seconds long), and or a global cooldown time on multiple torpedo launchers (currently there is none).

This fix would not punish those that got the Sheshar trait as they would still be able to fire 2 high yields back to back from one torpedo launcher but would prevent the weakening on shields as well as a viral torp disable from a spread.

http://s1.postimg.org/w05lvrh5r/high_yields.jpg

bobs1111

umm dude go try this ... if you think its still OP and more power creep then all the other stuffs in the game. Then come back and post again.

Trust me being able to spread then HY is not in anyway new nor is it OP... and tacking on a few free torps from a trait hy. Anyone in a torp bomber wasting a trait on that one is stupid. Unless they really can't afford better ones. I guess.

EDIT: also torps do have a global. its 1s... it used to be longer and torps where pretty much used by no one outside of a handful of vape builds.

bobs1111

Hmmm Just looked at your screen shoot though...

Doesn't the Sheshar trait fire a HY 1... it looks to me like you got hit with High yield 2, and rad dmg from the neut torp.

Ya I only count 4 torp hits. (kinetic Neut) + your attacker fired one Regular Photon at you for some reason first. The other half of the neut hits are Radiation dmg from the same torp.

dontdrunkimshoot

i'll just confirm that the combat log doesn't read rad damage correctly, segregating it from the kinetic ether vs hull or shields. its been to long for me to remember the exact details.

bobs1111

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

i'll just confirm that the combat log doesn't read rad damage correctly, segregating it from the kinetic ether vs hull or shields. its been to long for me to remember the exact details.

I can't remember either. In any event. Ya the screen shot doesn't match what the op is describing.

The torp boat that got the killing shot on him... fired one photon, and then one HY 2 Neut torp. So there wasn't any preloading going on.

To the op though... the on paper sounds great combo. of a Spread 3 followed by a HY 2 follwed by a Traited HY 1.... is really not that great.

Holding stuff that long is a waste, it might sound great but in practice its really not. Much better off to spam torps when your flying a torp boat, and hope you get something to slip in under a shield.

From the screen shot you posted its clear the borg where messing you up at the time... and likely you had no shielding or where badly debuffed or something. Your also not really in a PvP build at all. Faw and beams on that ship isn't likely the way to go.

illcadia

What's actually happening in the OP's screenshot is all three torpedoes fired with HYT 2 are tracking their damage for kinetic and rad separately. There's three kinetic events and three rad events, but they're in different chunks because the cryptic combat log doesn't sort itself by source or anything. Nothing out of the ordinary is happening here.

warmaker001b

If someone is spamming torpedoes with Enhanced Battle Cloak on, they're a damn fool. You should be thanking them.

cepholapoid

Hehe, looks like you really couldn't take being "vaped" by something other than energy weapons. Just because you suck at using kinetic and energy weapons doesn't mean everyone else has to.

And as you can see, not a single person finds using torpedes to the extent of energy weapons OP, so please, take your whining and go shove it where the sun don't shine. :P

mikehunt2013

cepholapoid wrote: »

Hehe, looks like you really couldn't take being "vaped" by something other than energy weapons. Just because you suck at using kinetic and energy weapons doesn't mean everyone else has to.

And as you can see, not a single person finds using torpedes to the extent of energy weapons OP, so please, take your whining and go shove it where the sun don't shine. :P

You tell the noobs braaaaaa. So much QQ over the years about torps sucking and now all torps builds which still are 2nd rate to energy weapons are fully viable. Just keep QQing because you don't have an all torp boat to use. HAHA!

jaydenomega812

cepholapoid wrote: »

Hehe, looks like you really couldn't take being "vaped" by something other than energy weapons. Just because you suck at using kinetic and energy weapons doesn't mean everyone else has to.

And as you can see, not a single person finds using torpedes to the extent of energy weapons OP, so please, take your whining and go shove it where the sun don't shine. :P

Oh I can only imagine how you really feel Q but something is wrong here. Best I recall HY2 doesn't fire 3 torps for a neutronic but it must cause that's why there is 3 entries for it as kinetic damage. How it's really different then from a spread 1 in that case I'm not getting. It should fire just one.

Aside from that just cause I don't use it don't mean I can't. I just don't want to buy spire consoles for torp damage.

And for the record....the reason there were photon torps throw at me first is to get viral to proc so I couldn't do anything to fend off the next torps coming down the line. The benthan trait for viral and the sheshar trait for HY shouldn't work together in such a short window. Furthermore, I can take a whooping if it's legit. Try me with your dhc's build and outsmart me by realizing the windows to do so in my cd's and I won't say a word other than nicely done. Bring the spam garbage though and one click wonder nab abilities it won't be a respecetable kill in my view ever.

bobs1111

jaydenomega812 wrote: »

Oh I can only imagine how you really feel Q but something is wrong here. Best I recall HY2 doesn't fire 3 torps for a neutronic but it must cause that's why there is 3 entries for it as kinetic damage. How it's really different then from a spread 1 in that case I'm not getting. It should fire just one.

Aside from that just cause I don't use it don't mean I can't. I just don't want to buy spire consoles for torp damage.

And for the record....the reason there were photon torps throw at me first is to get viral to proc so I couldn't do anything to fend off the next torps coming down the line. The benthan trait for viral and the sheshar trait for HY shouldn't work together in such a short window. Furthermore, I can take a whooping if it's legit. Try me with your dhc's build and outsmart me by realizing the windows to do so in my cd's and I won't say a word other than nicely done. Bring the spam garbage though and one click wonder nab abilities it won't be a respecetable kill in my view ever.

I don't see the trait in action here. The trait fires HY 1 not 2. The Salvo version of neutronic HY 2 is 3 torps. Its spread that has reduced torps.

This torp boat was sub optimal... if it was fully optimized you would have gotten hit with a Bio Rep Photon with the VM torp on it instead of just a regular photon. Or the way I like to do it is us a harpang so I can better control the timing.

I been out for a bit so I couldn't tell you if they have patched the VM trait resists in yet. If they haven't they should be shortly. Then if your speced properly the VM torp disable shouldn't last very long at all.

Same thing I said before still holds true though... an EBC torp boat won't often kill you instantly unless you are already in trouble. It in general takes me a few passes to kill someone who isn't getting shot at with energy by someone else or some NPCs... unless I can land a lucky phasic cluster or something.

Torp boats are not OP and completely viable. That you don't know how to fight them doesn't make it so. The main advantage to flying them is not many people have a clue how to defend against it.

jaydenomega812

bobs1111 wrote: »

I don't see the trait in action here. The trait fires HY 1 not 2. The Salvo version of neutronic HY 2 is 3 torps. Its spread that has reduced torps.

This torp boat was sub optimal... if it was fully optimized you would have gotten hit with a Bio Rep Photon with the VM torp on it instead of just a regular photon. Or the way I like to do it is us a harpang so I can better control the timing.

I been out for a bit so I couldn't tell you if they have patched the VM trait resists in yet. If they haven't they should be shortly. Then if your speced properly the VM torp disable shouldn't last very long at all.

Same thing I said before still holds true though... an EBC torp boat won't often kill you instantly unless you are already in trouble. It in general takes me a few passes to kill someone who isn't getting shot at with energy by someone else or some NPCs... unless I can land a lucky phasic cluster or something.

Torp boats are not OP and completely viable. That you don't know how to fight them doesn't make it so. The main advantage to flying them is not many people have a clue how to defend against it.

I can't brace for impact under a viral torpedo spell...I can't tac team under a viral torpedo spell....I cant rock n roll under a viral torpedo spell not to mention most of the time using rock n roll the torp will keep running right behind you until your rocked out of the roll...I can't warp shadow jump under a viral torpedo spell if I even had enough sing power stored anyway....so it's not that I don't know how to fight it off. Not to mention I've watched EBC torp bombers attack other people in this fashion of a spread to get viral torp proc, a hy then a sheshar trait hy and they blow up as well. So it's not my play style.

While I agree though in that certain pic posting hy1 sheshar wasn't in play it didn't even need to be since apparently a hy from neutronic does a spread of hy torps. Has I survived that spread of hy neutronics I'm sure the sheshar hy1 would have come next as I'm also sure it was loaded and ready. It was in an instance of my death before that pic posting that hy1 was in play and did indeed do me in though the player wasn't using neutronics for the torp spread of hy2.

bobs1111

jaydenomega812 wrote: »

I can't brace for impact under a viral torpedo spell...I can't tac team under a viral torpedo spell....I cant rock n roll under a viral torpedo spell not to mention most of the time using rock n roll the torp will keep running right behind you until your rocked out of the roll...I can't warp shadow jump under a viral torpedo spell if I even had enough sing power stored anyway....so it's not that I don't know how to fight it off. Not to mention I've watched EBC torp bombers attack other people in this fashion of a spread to get viral torp proc, a hy then a sheshar trait hy and they blow up as well. So it's not my play style.

While I agree though in that certain pic posting hy1 sheshar wasn't in play it didn't even need to be since apparently a hy from neutronic does a spread of hy torps. Has I survived that spread of hy neutronics I'm sure the sheshar hy1 would have come next as I'm also sure it was loaded and ready. It was in an instance of my death before that pic posting that hy1 was in play and did indeed do me in though the player wasn't using neutronics for the torp spread of hy2.

VM torp is now resisted properly by skills. It likely wasn't when you took this screen shot. If you are have a proper pvp spec it shouldn't last any more then 1.5-2s on you anymore. So its a none factor.

High yield has never changed... it doesn't fire a spread it fires a salvo. The neut torp does fire fewer torps in a spread because the Radiation AOE on it is insane, and a full spread would be insanity more then it can be.
Hy 1 - 2 torps both with higher base dmg.
Hy 2 - 3 torps all with slighly reduced dmg compared to a normal torpedo firing.
Hy 3 - 4 torps all with even less base dmg compared to the torps from HY 2.

The neutronic is no doubt the strongest torpedo in the game even after its nerf.

However torp boats are for sure not broken. They are viable yes but not broken. They are to be frank easy to counter... they are not the easiest ships to counter in an escort for sure... nor should they be. Any half decent sci on the field should have no issues controlling the average torp bomber pilot. The best still might not die often, however one good sci will keep them on the outside doing very little in the way of dmg.

An EBC ship using all torps is hardly an more dangerous then a decloaking escort with energy weapons and some escape consoles.

cepholapoid

You go on QQing about a weapon type that is still subpar to energy weapons....I'll just sit back and continue to vape your sorry little "high skill" space bar spam scimitard....which ironically uses viral torp, a subject you seem to QQ about as well.

It's not that I don't think you have a bad build, it's just that I think you should keep your PvE ship and mentality out of kerrat and PvP in general.

For the record, HY III neutros shoots 4 torps, not 3, and HY II shoots 3 torps. So quit spreading your idiocy further please.

scurry5

To be frank, from what I'm reading, the problem is not so much torpedoes in general as the Viral Torp. Because, the way I'm reading you, the problem is that it disables your ability to pop counters. However, vapers can pull the exact same thing with energy weapons combined with a single torp - the Enhanced Battle Cloak doesn't make that much difference, I feel, as you trade off having shields down for the time you're detectable as opposed to decloak, run and recloak.

Because I'm comparing to the closest equivalent here - a stun torpedo followed by any form of vape-alpha, projectile or energy, is devastating. Hence I don't believe the chaining of Torp Spread and HY is the problem here, since it's clearly defendable on its own.

majortiraomega

jaydenomega812 wrote: »

I can't brace for impact under a viral torpedo spell...I can't tac team under a viral torpedo spell....I cant rock n roll under a viral torpedo spell not to mention most of the time using rock n roll the torp will keep running right behind you until your rocked out of the roll...I can't warp shadow jump under a viral torpedo spell if I even had enough sing power stored anyway....so it's not that I don't know how to fight it off. Not to mention I've watched EBC torp bombers attack other people in this fashion of a spread to get viral torp proc, a hy then a sheshar trait hy and they blow up as well. So it's not my play style.

While I agree though in that certain pic posting hy1 sheshar wasn't in play it didn't even need to be since apparently a hy from neutronic does a spread of hy torps. Has I survived that spread of hy neutronics I'm sure the sheshar hy1 would have come next as I'm also sure it was loaded and ready. It was in an instance of my death before that pic posting that hy1 was in play and did indeed do me in though the player wasn't using neutronics for the torp spread of hy2.

Arg, my eyes, you are a noob and the above highlighted red word proves this statement. Star Trek Online is a Science Fiction video game; not a worthless fantasy game. We do not have lousy "magic spells" here in STO. Rather we have abilities or traits that apply effects. Get your terminology right before I'm forced to detonate my ship's own warp core.

As far as viral torpedo is concerned; the trait will be receiving a major nerf under Season 10. Until this point it is possible to remove the negative effect via Science Team and Science Team can be used under the effect of Viral Torpedo.

jaydenomega812

sci team doesn't remove viral torp. While I myself use it I only use it cause I got tired of it being used against me. 2 wrongs don't make a right but at least it shows what the wrong is like.

To summarize the rest....just get real. Have us all buzzing around like bumble bees in escorts abusing A2D, BO3, CRF3, SS3, OSS3, HY3.....if this is your idea of what pvp should be no wonder no one does it anymore.

bobs1111

jaydenomega812 wrote: »

sci team doesn't remove viral torp. While I myself use it I only use it cause I got tired of it being used against me. 2 wrongs don't make a right but at least it shows what the wrong is like.

To summarize the rest....just get real. Have us all buzzing around like bumble bees in escorts abusing A2D, BO3, CRF3, SS3, OSS3, HY3.....if this is your idea of what pvp should be no wonder no one does it anymore.

You realize the example you have there... has nothing to do with Global cool downs on launchers right ?

You are proving the point everyone was trying to make. "escorts abusing A2D BO3 CRF3 SS3 OSS3" NONE of that has anything to do with torpedoes.

Sure you say + a HY 3... but YOU can't run OSS3 + HY3 + BO3... good luck with that.

Is it viable to run a HY1 as a burst option in a PvP only build... ya I think it is.
Would it be more effective then just running another DBB or DHC though ? (most people would say no)

You may have gotten owned by some EBC warbird in a warzone one day... make no mistake the energy version is more viable anywhere where you don't have to deal with 10 PVE kids just waiting for a target to lock up. lol If you don't want to deal with EBC in Kerrat bring a Science toon in a Science ship, problem solved.