test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
STO could be more Star Trek-like
caltir
Member Posts: 21 Arc User
I'd like to point something out, even if I won't live long enough to see changes for better.
Let me stress out the obvious: Star Trek is NOT an action movie series. It is all about moral dillemas and choices, people learning about themselves. This is true for all series I've watched: TOS, TNG, ENT, some DS9. Gene Roddenberry made the ST specifically so, and never allowed removing the mental qualities for the sake of pure action.
From this perspective, many Foundry missions are way more true to ST than official missions. They present choices, hard choices to be made, and confront players with mystery, uncertainty. Less with 'keep clicking, not even reading texts, then keep firing and win' schemes.
So, why not make some more philosophically adult content optional, parallel to the main episodes, or introduce it into the episodes?
Another thing.
The space voyages in ST are so amazing because they are into the unknown, they are dangerous. And because they are endavors: you don't easily and momentarily reach your objectives. Space is the place where your patience and your integrity are tested.
:eek: Let's introduce some (any) level of danger of the space voyage - eg. damage from asteroid and other ship collisions.
:rolleyes: And, btw, why are starships confined to a 'pizza-box'? Why not make the game truly 3-D? Just introduce dorsal and ventral shields (as in ST series), and free the ships vertically, so they no more act like jet planes, unable to maneuver while rising or diving.
Let me stress out the obvious: Star Trek is NOT an action movie series. It is all about moral dillemas and choices, people learning about themselves. This is true for all series I've watched: TOS, TNG, ENT, some DS9. Gene Roddenberry made the ST specifically so, and never allowed removing the mental qualities for the sake of pure action.
From this perspective, many Foundry missions are way more true to ST than official missions. They present choices, hard choices to be made, and confront players with mystery, uncertainty. Less with 'keep clicking, not even reading texts, then keep firing and win' schemes.
So, why not make some more philosophically adult content optional, parallel to the main episodes, or introduce it into the episodes?Another thing.
The space voyages in ST are so amazing because they are into the unknown, they are dangerous. And because they are endavors: you don't easily and momentarily reach your objectives. Space is the place where your patience and your integrity are tested.
:eek: Let's introduce some (any) level of danger of the space voyage - eg. damage from asteroid and other ship collisions.
:rolleyes: And, btw, why are starships confined to a 'pizza-box'? Why not make the game truly 3-D? Just introduce dorsal and ventral shields (as in ST series), and free the ships vertically, so they no more act like jet planes, unable to maneuver while rising or diving.
Post edited by caltir on
0
Comments
thats a great idea...only one problem...
It doesn't sell well....outside of tv and movies that is. (noted; some games are an exception as those games are built around the idea of choices etc).
However while its a good idea, its also a bad one...MMORPGs are not supposed to be uber drama fests with 0 action, they couldnt possibly do it for an episode because its boring...I actually found dust to dust really boring as frankly I saw it coming...and that had all the morality etc
They already have started added moral and immoral choices into the game hell even the Dominion featured episodes had choices like that in..
kill the prisoners or take them back into custody... kill farek or don't... etc etc
DR - blow up the benthans or dont....settle squabbles....diplomacy all over the place in a lot of epsidoes... its all there but its just way more subtle because its a game not a tv show or movie.
There's only so much you can do with an online game and I can assure you people don't play the game for the "drama" lol
The foundry is where it should stay. As cryptic cant do both..perfectly.
You also need to consider that as time went on past gene's original vision the universe expanded tenfold beyond anything imagined it would and so what was originally about starfleet and its officers is now about the entire universe in which star trek resides and not everyone or every character in that universe thinks or acts like the federation....also kind of the point seeing as its a multi-faction MMORPG.
I agree with much of your post, so I'll just address the last 2.
Collisions in space in Star Trek are relatively rare due to navigational deflectors and tractor beams. Purposeful collisions are still possible via Ramming Speed, you just need to be below 50% hull to initiate it. It's not meant to be something that occurs regularly, but as as final resort, as is the case in just about every event it's used in Star Trek episodes and movies. As for collisions with asteroids, they would need to be fully dynamic objects in order for the nav deflector to push them aside, which would place additional strain on the servers. There's a reason "trash" like the tribbles on fleet starbases aren't synced between players, making all the asteroids dynamic objects would force them to all be entities for all players so they synced properly, and this would be a nightmare in asteroid belt maps.
True 3-D flight is pretty much out of the question, Cryptic has stated this time and again. I don't necessarily agree with their decision, but that's how it is.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
I personally don't see the need for it... It won't add any real depth to space combat, yes, you might be able to flip 180o on a vertical axis, but so what, it's not going to improve combat in any way...
Having played Eve, where space flight is virtually 3D (not entirely, but very close to it) you just end up upside down compared to other ships, it makes next to no difference in the grand scheme of gameplay...
Let me start with the "asteroid and otehr ship collision" thing. In Star Trek the whole purpose behind a deflector dish (at least originally) was to clear that whole mess out to prevent micro-meteor damage. The bigger stuff was handled through course plotting and computer. Only the most esoteric stuff made it through in any of the Star Treks except for Enterprise (whose technology was "limited".)
Exploration was originally handled in STO with the Genesis system... a great system on paper.. but after you did it a few 100 times you began to realize that it was 20 of the same missions set on maybe 20 different worlds... all over and over and over again... so the idea of "into the unknown" existed and could still exist but it needs an upgrade... I still hope the devs bring exploration clusters back some day with an updated Genesis system...
"Adult Content"... just doesn't sell... people don't play MMOs to sit around a talk diplomacy (imagine 60 levels of diplomacy missions and nothing but diplomacy missions.) Also looks at the Star Trek movies... TNG... the original series... DS9... Enterprise... the most popular missions were mission where action happened... and the generally least rated missions were where people sat around blabbing at each other... heck DS9 realized this so much their last couple of seasons was a war with nothign BUT action...
That's a thing I liked in TOR where, at some points, depending on your replies, you can gain an ally, lose an ally, get your opponent to join you, ignore you or get out of there AND you could get some assistance from them in the future, whether allowing a sequence to be easier, offering more options, or even have some bonuses with a nice letter thanking you.
The problem in STO is, apart from a very few missions where your replies have consequences in the mission objectives (and even fewer with consequences for later missions), all your options are meaningless.
You told the Hazari to stick their contract where the sun doesn't shine and informed the Benthans there was a spy in their ranks? Yeah, OK, cool, Tuvok praises you, whatever. And yet, you still have the Hazari and the Benthans ready to assist you in the exact same way if you chose the opposite.
You have diplomatic rank 4? You have a couple of new options of dialogue in specific missions, but elsewhere, the opposite side still treats you like TRIBBLE, despite the fact they allow you to wander in their space. As someone who has diplomatic immunity, you'd expect ambassador S'taass to at least give you more respect than if you were a Fed captain with non diplomatic ties.
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
Walk over and click glowy thing
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
Escape Key
Click glowy thing.
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
Shoot a badguy.
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
F-Key
Escape key, walk over and clicky....
Walk down long ramp, click,
F-Key
Walk down long ramp, click,
F-Key
Walk down long ramp, click,
Play "Simon" on the console to break the encryption.
Get into Ship,
F-Key
Walk over click glowy
F-Key
Walk over, click glowy
F-Key
cutscene
spend three minutes trying to sort out what abilities are where on a ship... fly in circles and push the 'worf wins' button.
Done.
(note, that the actual mission involves about 10x as much f-key and clicky than I posted here... there's only so much Ctrl V I'm willing to push to make a point.)
Case in point: the kobali. They're the innocent victims who you go to protect from the villains of the week, right? Seems that way at first, but the more involved you become, the more you see that it's not that simple. The kobali are victims, but they're also engaging on acts of dubious morality. It's partly their own fault they're on trouble. What you get is a situation more like the shows, where the "winning" was about finding the right moral path.
Unfortunately there's no real choice involved in how you deal with the kobali, probably because of engine limitations, so faking it is the best that the dev team can do.
For all the issues that came with DR, I think they did well with the kobali, given the circumstances. I'm satisfied with their approach. Of they could add the ability to make lasting choices, that'd be great, but I don't think they can.
I live for them but if you look at mediums now you here people yelling "don't tell me how to think!"
We all say Kirk make some pretty crazy solutions to some of the planets he visited. Would have been nice to go back to see the results.
But that is a personal preference.
Heh, the Iconians will be revealed to be the Offspring of The Kirk...from one of his temporal adventures.
It's not an engine limitation. It is, however, directly related to this:
Hence the "problem". Just like a TV show script, we're being handed the moral dilemma of the day, and the exact resolution that is required to advance the script and/or plotline.
I betcha Shatner never felt "morally broken up" over whatever the script called for him to do/not do, like say, let Joan Rivers (Edith Keeler) die. However, he managed to portray that internal moral struggle well enough at least once to get "City on the Edge of Forever" nominated for awards...
As PCs in STO, we're not aware of the script, we're not directly aware of the dilemma and resolution, and by golly, we want that choose your own adventure aspect to let us at least think we're making a point in the plot instead of just being strung along like an actor in a series. Otherwise, we're like Shatner - not affected by the morality plays of our character except what we need to do to act the part, and even then, there's little emotional acting on our characters - Ardrian the Joined Trill has shown just as many different facial expressions as S'Leth the Vulcan. Click the presented (scripted) response, and roll along merrily, making note of the story as we would while watching it, but not quite getting hit with that "you're in the middle of this" as you would expect from a game...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
rofl...
Well my addition to that is that the iconians have been studying everyone for quite some time and all your gear is adapted too already. So the only thing you can do to stop them is shooting master keys at them because this is the end of the road and the master keys can't go down with the ship but if you buy enough of them the game will go on..
In a limited way, I experimented with the "script" on the Romulan/KDF side of the game. Since I had chosen to ally with the KDF instead of the Federation, I expected my female Reman engineer to also be allied with the Tal Shiar. Not so. According to the ongoing "script", I have been called a member of the Romulan Republic who is allied with the KDF. Which is exactly what I was aiming for with each choice I made in each of the episodes leading up to and after the alliance choice. (Had I been straitjacketed into being a Reman with the Tal Shiar/KDF, I would've scrapped the character.)
Try it for yourself if you don't believe me.
My character Tsin'xing
Look at episodes like the The one where everyone goes crazy at a specific time or the episode called" the apple". Or the episode where everyone was in a godfather movie.
Kirks decision was irresponsible. What would have been nice was to have a "we lost contact with the plandt and would like to send down a survey team to check out what happened".
Then blame it all on the iconians.
If we add on top of that outdated game engine (because it really is), for me it draws the perfect moment to pack up my stuff, add everyone on Steam and move on Driveclub. It's just... Gone, I don't feel it Trek anymore. As soon as I'm done with CE I'm going to airlock it out of my computer. Seriously, for me it was fun until it lasted, but in the last few months it degenerated in an unstable amount of badly written code, DCs, non canon crazyness, unspeakable amounts of grinding.
My 2 cents. For me, sto is done for.
And I'm quite sure I'm soon going to have my statements confirmed. Screening anyway for the record.
Yep, I've already got a KDF Rom (Reman). Since the script actually has both sides supporting the Republic (can't have anyone supporting the big nasty Tal'Shiar that everyone's trying to eradicate for siding with the Elachi etc.) the player winds up in the Republic no matter how much you side with the Tal'Shiar - about the only thing that recognizes you as a wanna-be Tal'Shiar is a single accolade in a single mission, you still wind up with D'Tan and his cronies...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It's very day-late and dollar-short on a lot of things. Why voice acting wasn't in the game from day 1, I don't know. And, I don't mean Leonard Nimoy and Wannabe Spock, doing a little cameo. I mean all dialogue. Heck, in SWTOR or Mass Effect your character has a voice. What did we get from day one? Reading. That's it. It's finally catching up with dialogue in the missions, but your captain's are still "voiceless."
While I do acknowledge that aspects of the game have improved considerably - more voiceovers, the DOFF system, some of the events, overall quality of the missions/stories, etc. - there's a lot of little imperfections that have been around for quite a while. It's like QA is giving everything the green light at 75% (maybe?). Striving for 100% all the time is not practical, but high-90s should be the goal. How many ship models are outdated? How many have small anomalies that can easily be recognized by modest visual inspection? How many issues have their been with coding - clearing your BOFF stations, your active DOFFs, loadouts? If it's not in working condition, don't release it. I'd rather wait a little longer for something that works well than get a piece of TRIBBLE now. Break the game to get the code out the door and then fix it later. That's a poor way to do business but that's what has been happening.
PvP is neglected. I dabbled a bit, a few years ago, but I can't compete with the DPS numbers. Not if I want to use the weapons and ships that I would like. I could fork over the $$$ for the ships, the lockbox keys, the gear, etc. but none of them appeal to me. Would I PvP? Sure, but the disparity between where I'm at and where most PvPers are would be laughable. Even after I did a serious re-vamp of my ship (then an end-game ship), it was badly beaten and what fun is it to blow up when the first Klingon de-cloaks behind you?
The quest for loot has taken center stage. It's all about grinding out the XP for powers, traits, gear, and dilithium. I'll be honest, I'm so far behind the curve by the time I can get good fleet gear it'll be horribly outclassed, if it isn't already. I have little to no stress about slowly filling the progress bars because I've already accepted that I'm waaay behind. Gone are the days of exploration. I'm mixed about the exploration clusters leaving - they needed a big-time rework since it got tired playing the same thing over and over again. However, at least you had that option before. Crafting has been bass-ackward since the get-go. Now we have a good system, but you have to take random modifications.
In general, I think the game has given you fewer and fewer options as it has grown. Want to be competitive? Gotta grind for gear. Want top DPS? Gotta take this weapon type, or that ship type. Want to get rewards from the queues that mean something? Gotta play Advanced or Elite. Want to play Advanced or Elite? Gotta have an uber ship build. Want Rep gear? Gotta grind that Rep. Want deeper, more Star-Trek-esque missions? Gotta play the Foundry.
As we all get led down the road of grinding for gear, dil, Zen, etc. I can't help but think that it's a strategy to milk the game for whatever it's got left before the inevitable. Ok, maybe it's not to that point yet, but I feel like it's coming in not too long. The only saving grace PWE/Cryptic might have is that they have the license for ST and no one else does. They have the Nerdopoly. Which is good and bad. They will be the only option for a ST MMORPG, so they will keep it going knowing they have the market cornered. But, as with all monopolies, there's not competition so you can't really find a better offer.
If there was a ST game out there where I could freely choose my ship, level it and my character accordingly, experience exploration, discovery, diplomacy, and a good sci-fi shoot'em-up, good missions with voice for all characters, PvP areas/objectives, I'd kick this game in a heartbeat.
That's a COUNTEREXAMPLE, not an example. He means to add more ACTUAL choices that DO matter and don't just throw you canned responses and canned results. I hate to cite SWTOR in this like everyone else, but... See SWTOR for an instance in which this was successful.
Yes, but in-story the characters "really did" face moral dilemmas, and had choices as to how they handled them, some of which affected what happened in their future. We get to be the characters now, which would be really awesome... But we aren't given any choice. And in the occasional event that we are, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
I didn't know that you end up in the Republic whether allied with the Fed or with the KDF. (I assumed that if your Romulan or Reman was allied with the KDF, that meant you were automatically also allied with the Tal Shiar.) Had I known that, I probably wouldn't have bothered with my experiment.
Despite that, I am enjoying having a Reman character (the only character I have that's bald), and she seems to be enjoying her Scimitar. Though I have had some traffic accidents with other Scimitars earlier today. You'd think piloting (and parking orbits near planets, starbases, etc.) wouldn't be like dealing with an overly crowded commuter parking lot in 2410. Oh well.
Btw, I don't have a problem with D'Tan. At least his ego seems quite a bit less over-inflated than Sela's is.
SWTOR did nothing of the sort... Your decisions were as ground breaking as whether you gained Dark Side or Light Side points... Whether your were a Dark Jedi, or a Light Sith made absolutely no difference what-so-bleeding-ever to how you were perceived, or how your story unfolded...
The only changes that it did make was your character's appearance would shift, and you'd take on features associated with the Dark or Light side, and what special items they had access to...
The choices in SWTOR were the very canned responses, with the same canned results, that you mentioned...
The problem with narratives of the sort seen in Mass Effect, which do actually have an impact in the long-term story, is that they simply cannot be worked into an MMO as my universe, and your universe, cannot both be represented if I chose to continue the Klingon/Federation War, but you chose to follow the existing story and call a ceasefire...
There is no way to include choices in an MMO that actually have meaningful results as maintaining the 'status quo' throughout the entire server is necessary...
There's a reason why the silent protagonist is a successful design choice.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I agree that there should be more moral dilemmas added to STO, but let's not start viewing the ST series through rose-tinted glasses to make our case. I keep hearing people make ST to be nothing but this incredibly talky, highly philosophical series that was long on diplomacy/dilemmas and short on action. This is not true. It was always a mixture of both with titillation thrown in for good measure. That was especially true in Voyager where Janeway was throwing out her "I'll-blow-up-this-ship" ultimatum every five seconds.
It's very day-late and dollar-short on a lot of things. Why voice acting wasn't in the game from day 1, I don't know. And, I don't mean Leonard Nimoy and Wannabe Spock, doing a little cameo. I mean all dialogue. Heck, in SWTOR or Mass Effect your character has a voice. What did we get from day one? Reading. That's it. It's finally catching up with dialogue in the missions, but your captain's are still "voiceless."
###########################################################
Lost any compassion I had for you with the first sentence and it just got worse after it. You do realize that your toon in most games is voiceless right? That way YOU supply the voice in your mind it's called imagination.
###########################################################
While I do acknowledge that aspects of the game have improved considerably - more voiceovers, the DOFF system, some of the events, overall quality of the missions/stories, etc. - there's a lot of little imperfections that have been around for quite a while. It's like QA is giving everything the green light at 75% (maybe?). Striving for 100% all the time is not practical, but high-90s should be the goal. How many ship models are outdated? How many have small anomalies that can easily be recognized by modest visual inspection? How many issues have their been with coding - clearing your BOFF stations, your active DOFFs, loadouts? If it's not in working condition, don't release it. I'd rather wait a little longer for something that works well than get a piece of TRIBBLE now. Break the game to get the code out the door and then fix it later. That's a poor way to do business but that's what has been happening.
###########################################################
Guess you never heard of patches. There have been glitches in the game world for ages and there are deadlines to get product out the door due to contracts and distribution constraints be it a physical item or a download.
###########################################################
PvP is neglected. I dabbled a bit, a few years ago, but I can't compete with the DPS numbers. Not if I want to use the weapons and ships that I would like. I could fork over the $$$ for the ships, the lockbox keys, the gear, etc. but none of them appeal to me. Would I PvP? Sure, but the disparity between where I'm at and where most PvPers are would be laughable. Even after I did a serious re-vamp of my ship (then an end-game ship), it was badly beaten and what fun is it to blow up when the first Klingon de-cloaks behind you?
###########################################################
:rolleyes: Well the dabble thing says it all. So you got butt hurt and feel you are entitled to be top dog right away without uprating gear and ship. There will ALWAYS be disparity in games in PVP from one player to another. Its part of life and you will always run into a better players ( by that I mean both skills and gear). You deal with it by getting better and improving ship gear.
###########################################################
The quest for loot has taken center stage. It's all about grinding out the XP for powers, traits, gear, and dilithium. I'll be honest, I'm so far behind the curve by the time I can get good fleet gear it'll be horribly outclassed, if it isn't already. I have little to no stress about slowly filling the progress bars because I've already accepted that I'm waaay behind. Gone are the days of exploration. I'm mixed about the exploration clusters leaving - they needed a big-time rework since it got tired playing the same thing over and over again. However, at least you had that option before. Crafting has been bass-ackward since the get-go. Now we have a good system, but you have to take random modifications.
###########################################################
:rolleyes: There you go Fleet gear is not top end now but is a good starting point. So instead of crafting or uprating your gear you choose instead to complain about being behind the curve. The game has changed and grown and you can't accept that fact I take it. Crafting Bass-ackward? So you haven't really crafted any new stuff then right?
###########################################################
In general, I think the game has given you fewer and fewer options as it has grown. Want to be competitive? Gotta grind for gear. Want top DPS? Gotta take this weapon type, or that ship type. Want to get rewards from the queues that mean something? Gotta play Advanced or Elite. Want to play Advanced or Elite? Gotta have an uber ship build. Want Rep gear? Gotta grind that Rep. Want deeper, more Star-Trek-esque missions? Gotta play the Foundry.
###########################################################
:rolleyes: So you feel entitled to be top dog without any effort put in on your end.
Uber ship build? I guess you only PUG and are one of those players that charges in guns blazing with no idea of what to do but pew pew in a glass ship and die instantly causing a FAIL mission.
###########################################################
As we all get led down the road of grinding for gear, dil, Zen, etc. I can't help but think that it's a strategy to milk the game for whatever it's got left before the inevitable. Ok, maybe it's not to that point yet, but I feel like it's coming in not too long. The only saving grace PWE/Cryptic might have is that they have the license for ST and no one else does. They have the Nerdopoly. Which is good and bad. They will be the only option for a ST MMORPG, so they will keep it going knowing they have the market cornered. But, as with all monopolies, there's not competition so you can't really find a better offer.
###########################################################
So I guess you have never heard of revenue generation? With FTP how else are the DEV's and company going to keep in business?
###########################################################
If there was a ST game out there where I could freely choose my ship, level it and my character accordingly, experience exploration, discovery, diplomacy, and a good sci-fi shoot'em-up, good missions with voice for all characters, PvP areas/objectives, I'd kick this game in a heartbeat.
###########################################################
:rolleyes: So the huge number of ships that you can freely choose from ( no matter if they are leveling ships, dilth ships, lockbox ships or Zen you can freely switch between them) and be configured with pretty much any gear is somehow missing on your account? I guess you also somehow have the ZEN store missing on your account along with the ship stores on ESD DS9 Qounos New rom all missing as well. Along with event ships and gear.
You are also unaware of the new ship leveling where you ship gains traits and HPS, Weapon and shield powers and more as it gains points by doing missions and stuff.
I guess you also are unaware of character traits that you gain by increasing reputation. Maybe you should take a good look at what is new instead of complaining first.
It worked very well in ST: Starfleet Command 1, 2, and 3, and certainly added some reality and difficulty. Also, it allowed for some more advanced tactics. The Wing Commander/Privateer series were also famous for their in-space hazards, which affected flying and combat in an exciting way.
I would also love to see some real orbiting the stars and planets: a slight gravitational pull towards the supermassive objects so that you must adjust your transversal speed to make your trajectory stable elliptic.