..., i'd suggest you rewatch DS9 again from season 5 onwards, ...,
Not a fan of DS9. To me it made Star Trek into Star Wars with small ships (even including runabouts) either kicking the backside of much larger vessels or holding their own. Most ships became popcorn as it become more 'how many ships can we fit on the screen' than anything resembling was Star Trek was.
It was as held back as Kirks Ent was when faced by the never before met alien of the week
For all that, TOS Enterprise still did rather will (leaving out the movies).
It beat the Rolumans in Balance of Terror until it was almost 'out-witted', and was still tough enough to take that and win.
In Arena it withstood the Gorn attack and drove it to flight.
3. Errand of Mercy saw it easily destroy a Klingon ship after taking surprise fire.
Doomsday Machine saw the ship take repeat beatings by a weapon capable of craving up entire worlds for dinner proving its durability
Elaan of Troyius saw a Impulse power only Enterprise withstand multiple attacks before badly damaging its opponent and driving it away
Now TOS didn't have many ship battles to be honest. It wasn't a war series after all. But in those it did, the Enterprise never came across as a wimp like the 'D' did constantly.
Not a fan of DS9. To me it made Star Trek into Star Wars with small ships (even including runabouts) either kicking the backside of much larger vessels or holding their own. Most ships became popcorn as it become more 'how many ships can we fit on the screen' than anything resembling was Star Trek was.
So no, not going back to watch it.
For all that, TOS Enterprise still did rather will (leaving out the movies).
It beat the Rolumans in Balance of Terror until it was almost 'out-witted', and was still tough enough to take that and win.
In Arena it withstood the Gorn attack and drove it to flight.
3. Errand of Mercy saw it easily destroy a Klingon ship after taking surprise fire.
Doomsday Machine saw the ship take repeat beatings by a weapon capable of craving up entire worlds for dinner proving its durability
Elaan of Troyius saw a Impulse power only Enterprise withstand multiple attacks before badly damaging its opponent and driving it away
Now TOS didn't have many ship battles to be honest. It wasn't a war series after all. But in those it did, the Enterprise never came across as a wimp like the 'D' did constantly.
Galaxy in Tinman took a sneek attack from the Romulans and only took shield damage.
Same episode Tinman propells the Ent-D away the same shockwave destroys the Romulan if i recall.
Galaxy in The Wounded disabled a Galor with 1 shot
Picard in Ensign Ro squares off against 2 Galors no shots fired but it appeared he thought he'd win
Just a couple but again as you mentioned about TOS, TNG wasn't a action show either, most of the episodes put the characters trying to over come obstacles with thought and reason.
TNG was probably the most true show to the Star Trek ideals than even the TOS.
Galaxy in Tinman took a sneek attack from the Romulans and only took shield damage.
Same episode Tinman propells the Ent-D away the same shockwave destroys the Romulan if i recall.
Galaxy in The Wounded disabled a Galor with 1 shot
Picard in Ensign Ro squares off against 2 Galors no shots fired but it appeared he thought he'd win
Just a couple but again as you mentioned about TOS, TNG wasn't a action show either, most of the episodes put the characters trying to over come obstacles with thought and reason.
TNG was probably the most true show to the Star Trek ideals than even the TOS.
The romulans in Tinman were substantially closer to Tinman than the Enterpreise was. They had also damaged their ships to get there first. And do I really have to go to youtube for the compilation showing how many times Tasha and Worf counting down the percentage of shields until they failed?
The romulans in Tinman were substantially closer to Tinman than the Enterpreise was. They had also damaged their ships to get there first. And do I really have to go to youtube for the compilation showing how many times Tasha and Worf counting down the percentage of shields until they failed?
The Galaxy was not everyone's cup of tea, that is for sure.
However, it is liked well enough, you can see this by virtually every game got its mod of it, as far as modding in a galaxy made sense.
The Actually plastic model kits still sell.
I love the Galaxy. It has that utterly decadent shape and purpose, the bridge thrones high above the court, and the bridge interior was like a throne room. Come on, the captain sat in a comfy chair, with his 4 major minions sitting around him, awaiting orders while the gun **** had to stand and keel over the railing.
It was large, decadent, bright and FURNISHED with wood.
Why? BECAUSE SPACESHIPMALLTHING THATS WHY!
Look here, crummy klinkers and avian obsessed romulans: We built our newest ship like a shopping mall and it will still kick your asses from here top proxima centauri 2 out of 3 times! Any day!
Its also faster, with more endurance and our people actually have things to do besides staring stoicly or sleeping on metal: We got gyms. And holodecks. And a huge TRIBBLE garden! A GARDEN! To have romantic moments!
And when push comes to shove, we will rip all that luxury out and replace it with DOOM AND MURDER and then we will gather these flying shopping malls of death into groups and MOB YOU TRIBBLE up by using these behemoths of spacious interior as battering rams to break your formations and lay down the smack with our huge Phaser arrays and rapid fire torpedo systems.
Laugh all you want, the fact remains that our vanity projects still turn out better ships than anything you have ever built in that time frame.
The Galaxy was not everyone's cup of tea, that is for sure.
However, it is liked well enough, you can see this by virtually every game got its mod of it, as far as modding in a galaxy made sense.
The Actually plastic model kits still sell.
I love the Galaxy. It has that utterly decadent shape and purpose, the bridge thrones high above the court, and the bridge interior was like a throne room. Come on, the captain sat in a comfy chair, with his 4 major minions sitting around him, awaiting orders while the gun **** had to stand and keel over the railing.
It was large, decadent, bright and FURNISHED with wood.
Why? BECAUSE SPACESHIPMALLTHING THATS WHY!
Look here, crummy klinkers and avian obsessed romulans: We built our newest ship like a shopping mall and it will still kick your asses from here top proxima centauri 2 out of 3 times! Any day!
Its also faster, with more endurance and our people actually have things to do besides staring stoicly or sleeping on metal: We got gyms. And holodecks. And a huge TRIBBLE garden! A GARDEN! To have romantic moments!
And when push comes to shove, we will rip all that luxury out and replace it with DOOM AND MURDER and then we will gather these flying shopping malls of death into groups and MOB YOU TRIBBLE up by using these behemoths of spacious interior as battering rams to break your formations and lay down the smack with our huge Phaser arrays and rapid fire torpedo systems.
Laugh all you want, the fact remains that our vanity projects still turn out better ships than anything you have ever built in that time frame.
That is so true. The interior of the Galaxy is my favourtie.
Do you think we will get one? Im in a fleet excelsior t5u but would be great to have a t6 version
Personally i think a T6 could happen the excelsior has been around a long time and just when you think its days are done they retrofit it with current technology.
Think B-52 it has out lived every would be replacement is almost 60-70 years old and is still our best US bomber in service thats excelsior a ship that can be upgraded to fit current needs with current technology.
So Yes a T6 exclesior would be nice and would fit with trek lore and the excelsiors place in it i think if created should be not an upgrade but a stand alone version of the excelsior .
the excel cant choose to use a different part of its array to avoid heat overload of its phasers(canon problem from yesterdays enterprise), since its only got turrets.
and the hull is not designed to have phaser arrays mounted in it.
And yet strangely I've had phaser arrays on mine since I first got it years ago
And none of that about arrays vs. turrets (?) is canon. Nor does it seem to hold the Klingons or other races back.
Do you think we will get one? Im in a fleet excelsior t5u but would be great to have a t6 version
You just got 3 FFS...
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
canon also claims the federation to have no money or need for it. yet constantly use it for trade.
Sadly for you, you don't get to decide for others how to resolve conflicts in canon. They get to believe what they want, and you get to believe what you want.
For this, I believe it's a post scarcity culture. And that's where it sits.
any screen shot of any excel ever, show turrets on the hull as firing points. same as teh constitution. that makes my turret vs array point true and canon. and you wrong.
Not what I was talking about dude. It was your claimed advantages to arrays.
clearly stating that heat dissipation is a key issue to a firefight, making that part also true and canon.
Assuming that quote is accurate and contains all important information because I'm not going to look it up...
It clearly applies to Deflectors, not the phaser array dude. Seriously, if you're going to quote something, have it be... you know about what you're speaking of.
Also where does it say that the advances were explicitly an element that couldn't be refitted on older designs. Just that the advancement was made (and implicitly that the 'C' didn't have it). Perhaps better cooling methods. Perhaps better materials. Perhaps Unicorn dust.
Basically this boils down to a inconsistent fictional setting with fantasy style technology. Anything the writers want can be had.
And that includes a T6 ship constructed in the style of an Excelsior if the DEVs want one. Fiction is nice that way.
Have you considered that after a T5 retrofit, a Fleet refit of that and a T6-U refit of both they might have made some upgrades to the ship's systems in general?
Understand something simple- basic engineering (thermal or otherwise) DOES not apply. Don't use 400 year old concepts to explain a *fictional* setting just so you get your way.
Today's engineering says the following:
Warp Drive is not possible
Phasers are nonsense
The named materials don't exist
Impulse drive as show is not possible
i.e. it's fiction and thus we can't use today's engineering to explain it. Further more, it's not *your* fiction *you* don't get to define what is and is not possible if it's not already defined for *you*.
Here in STO, it's clear that for combat the Excelsior is in the opinion of the player base a better combat ship than the Galaxy. In the opinion of the DEVs it can use the same shields, weapons etc. as the Galaxy.
And dude, that's the end of the discussion. Anything else is your own wishfulfillment.
The implication of the above, is that given the trend towards more Federation Warships- the Excelsior will get a T6 upgrade before the Galaxy.
IMO (nothing more, only part of it is canon) to add a bit more:
The Galaxy was a exploration vessel intended to carry non-combat families in peace time. Combat ability was thus sub-par and explains its poor performance both in actual show and in this game.
Further, the use of Phaser Arrays was not for improved combat capability (as the Defiant, designed as a warship did not use them for its primary weaponry). Rather they were selected specifically because they were recessed and didn't look like weaponry. Thus they helped with the stated canon opinion that the Galaxy was not a military ship.
And back to canon- A ship that Riker thought wasted its time with war training and (according again to the series) and didn't even practice combat drills except under outside pressure.
And back to IMO, this explains why the Excelsior style ships were still in service. A few remained as combat effective ships.
But again, most of that is my own opinion. The Galaxy is the failed emblem of a peaceful and unrealistic Federation poorly suited for a more serious universe such as show in STO. Let it die and get out of the way of a excellent warship design.
Now despite that opinion, I think we should have a skin for all the canon ships at T6 over the next year. Because I don't think you have to like what I like anymore than I have to like what you like.
canon also claims the federation to have no money or need for it. yet constantly use it for trade.
money = exchange medium.
no money = exchange chickens for warp coils.
This is wrong. *Earth* has no need for money. The UFP trades with the galaxy and amongst themselves, numerous forms of currencies have been mentioned. Gold pressed Latinum, and "Credits" come to my mind and I am sure there have been mentioning of others as well.
any screen shot of any excel ever, show turrets on the hull as firing points. same as teh constitution. that makes my turret vs array point true and canon. and you wrong.
I don't think "turrets" have ever been depicted in canon at all, only exception are DS9 defenses and I think some klingon vessels had something you could consider turrets. The onstitution and Excelsior were shown having paired single beam emitters if I am not mistaken and the Lakota-Type refit did have phaser arrays, but my memory is blurry in that regard .
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I don't think "turrets" have ever been depicted in canon at all, only exception are DS9 defenses and I think some klingon vessels had something you could consider turrets. The onstitution and Excelsior were shown having paired single beam emitters if I am not mistaken and the Lakota-Type refit did have phaser arrays, but my memory is blurry in that regard .
The Lakota still retains the TOS-movie era dual emitter banks. But it fires in a TNG-style Phaser Beam and not like Phasers did in the TOS-movie era (we are never shown Excelsior firing Phasers, only Photons in Undiscovered Country).
I'd not only buy one but i'd also buy some of the canon star trek ship with T6 hybrid seatings - there are to few of them left and too much other ships flying around for my taste.
Technically - well this is science fiction isn't it? Give me the shiphulls i saw in the series and films and i will buy them
Give me some of cryptics fantasy hulls and i will pass - it's that easy for me.
precisely my point. its still using 150+ year old turret weapon systems.
Again, progress, the systems on the Lakota clearly aren't 150+ years old, or if they are then defence systems on starfleet vessels and installations haven't improved at all in the past 150+ years which is clearly not true. If only due to the fact that it is mentioned someone upgraded her weapons.
Dual emitters logically suggests independent cooling systems for each emitter which makes for more efficient cooling than for arrays, another potential advantage over arrays is that you put multiple emitters on the hull and you can potentially fire all of them at once, admittedly each beam will be less powerful than one from an array however if you account for six of these beams to one from an array, I would suggest the 'older' system would win out due to various factors (Energy output, shield strain, etc).
It is also worth noting that over a long period of time dual emitters are probably more efficient than arrays as you can probably fire both emitters in a pair at once so you can alternate as one gets warmer than you want with a little overlap to maintain heat output/shield stress/whatever, with an array you have to start a new beam on another part of the array leading to downtime.
So while dual emitters are an older system, in many ways they are better than arrays when using power and projection systems of the same capacity which we know from the Defiant's pulse cannons do indeed exist in a compatible format.
even though logically, in the 'real' world excelsior would be decomissioned, if you want to make money, you can't beat the romantic heart. that means defiant class, intrepid class and galaxy classes will need to get T6 upgrades too. why? because we grew up watching those ships kick butt and we have an emotional attachment. the heart wants what it wants. it's completely illogical, and it doesn't matter cause it's only a game. i'm sure they can figure out a way to 'make it make sense'
any advance that could be applied to these turret banks could be applied to the modules in an array.
removing that as a consideration.
progress for everything else doesnt stop just so p1 hero boat can get its mary-sue beams installed.
Which is exactly my point put the other way, nice try but I'm not falling for it. Even if we say that the dual emitter style hadn't been developed since arrays became a thing, the underlying principles are the same and as such advances in arrays can be ported to emitters should arrays not be practical on certain designs, bringing the systems to similar levels of power.
throwing the word logically into an assertion, doent make it so.
each emitter? each bank has 2 turret type emitters.
arrays are literally chained "arrays" of emitters.
only thing the turret system wins at, is being simple.
While adding logically to an assertion does not make it correct, it does provoke a line of thought.
If you think about it it's impractical to use independent cooling systems for all the emitters in an array/ It's far more practical to cool them all with one high capacity system or maybe in groups. These would also drain more power as you have to power the cooling system for the whole array and you also have to push power through all the emitters between each end of the array and the projection point to achieve maximum effectiveness, a side effect of this is resistance as power passes through each one which leads to heat buildup and thus energy wastage which is something that the dual emitter system doesn't suffer from as much.
On that note, cooling dual emitters is going to be easier, even independently, takes less power and using a high capacity emitter you can gain similar output, alternatively, you could put a small chain of high capacity emitters under the hull with a single locked projection point for each port achieving similar results, though I'm no engineer so this is all just theory.
calling the banks more efficient, is conflationary at best.
as for alternating... an entire array of serialised emitters designed to work in a linked way, vs a dual turret bank... which has the greater capacity to 'alternate'?
Given that all arrays are shown to only fire one beam at a time (yes they can fire rapidly, however there is still only one beam at a time and there is a gap) it is safe to suggest they are set up in series which has the problem of only being capable of firing one beam at a time (this makes sense if you think about the kind of power system you would need to run all the emitters in parallel).
Dual emitters however are set up in parallel (as evidenced by the fact they are shown on screen to fire both ports at once when needed) this means that you can start firing a second beam before the first one is stopped, you simply can't do that (if the previous assertion is correct) with arrays.
the defiants pulse cannons are huge in comparison to the ship fireing them and have a narrow arc. essentially they are teh same as outboard BoP cannons, but mounted internally.
that fixed nature means they are not the same as the high arc turrets mounted to the connie miranda and excel.
While true, it is still a variation of the dual emitter technology which can be adapted to suit the defence systems of the Excel, which was my point when I brought them up.
So it's canon that the class was upgraded to the best standards of the era. That ends that discussion no matter what anyone has to say about it. Clearly, whatever the unexplained technology was, it worked nicely.
And really it's no surprise. The best modern ships are designed for 50 year life spans with refits along the way. To see this increased by the Star Trek era even by a order of magnitude would not out of the question. Vessels such as the Excelsior and K'tinga lasting at least into the DS9 era are proof.
its 4 times the size of a constitution. so the comparion between the 2 yes, the excel beats the connie. also, saw nothing to say it was powerful, rather than common.
its armed with phaser turrets rather than arrays. that puts its offensive ability below any modern ship of similar displacement due to mechanical limitation.
besides, the federation logic is "everything we make is the most powerful best thing ever shiny sparkle magic makes it go".
yes.
people should go play with their sovereigns instead of dragging some 130 year old pensioner out for party.
no your wrong
The Excelsior is only 25% bigger than the connie not 4x
It has dual beam banks
That's if you believe gene roddenbury
If you would rather believe someone else there are dozens of GR wannabe's on the internet with false stats of canon Starfleet ships just pick one and be happy :P
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
So it's canon that the class was upgraded to the best standards of the era. That ends that discussion no matter what anyone has to say about it. Clearly, whatever the unexplained technology was, it worked nicely.
And really it's no surprise. The best modern ships are designed for 50 year life spans with refits along the way. To see this increased by the Star Trek era even by a order of magnitude would not out of the question. Vessels such as the Excelsior and K'tinga lasting at least into the DS9 era are proof.
The Defiant vs the Lakota is a deeply flawed argument, for one the crew of the Defiant were not willing to destroy a Federation ship, and the Lakota came off much worse than the Defiant.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
The Defiant vs the Lakota is a deeply flawed argument, for one the crew of the Defiant were not willing to destroy a Federation ship, and the Lakota came off much worse than the Defiant.
True
Whatever you could pack into a Defiant you could pack 5x as much into a Excelsior simply because you have more room
Size matters........Ask your wife/girlfriend :P
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
The Lakota still retains the TOS-movie era dual emitter banks. But it fires in a TNG-style Phaser Beam and not like Phasers did in the TOS-movie era (we are never shown Excelsior firing Phasers, only Photons in Undiscovered Country).
I was mistaken in that regard, I somehow painted a beam array on top of the Lakota
I still fail to see how a emitter bank is a "turret" style weapon, skollufr? .
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
Not a fan of DS9. To me it made Star Trek into Star Wars with small ships (even including runabouts) either kicking the backside of much larger vessels or holding their own. Most ships became popcorn as it become more 'how many ships can we fit on the screen' than anything resembling was Star Trek was.
So no, not going back to watch it.
For all that, TOS Enterprise still did rather will (leaving out the movies).
Now TOS didn't have many ship battles to be honest. It wasn't a war series after all. But in those it did, the Enterprise never came across as a wimp like the 'D' did constantly.
Galaxy in Tinman took a sneek attack from the Romulans and only took shield damage.
Same episode Tinman propells the Ent-D away the same shockwave destroys the Romulan if i recall.
Galaxy in The Wounded disabled a Galor with 1 shot
Picard in Ensign Ro squares off against 2 Galors no shots fired but it appeared he thought he'd win
Just a couple but again as you mentioned about TOS, TNG wasn't a action show either, most of the episodes put the characters trying to over come obstacles with thought and reason.
TNG was probably the most true show to the Star Trek ideals than even the TOS.
The romulans in Tinman were substantially closer to Tinman than the Enterpreise was. They had also damaged their ships to get there first. And do I really have to go to youtube for the compilation showing how many times Tasha and Worf counting down the percentage of shields until they failed?
plot armour, it was dumb
However, it is liked well enough, you can see this by virtually every game got its mod of it, as far as modding in a galaxy made sense.
The Actually plastic model kits still sell.
I love the Galaxy. It has that utterly decadent shape and purpose, the bridge thrones high above the court, and the bridge interior was like a throne room. Come on, the captain sat in a comfy chair, with his 4 major minions sitting around him, awaiting orders while the gun **** had to stand and keel over the railing.
It was large, decadent, bright and FURNISHED with wood.
Why? BECAUSE SPACESHIPMALLTHING THATS WHY!
Look here, crummy klinkers and avian obsessed romulans: We built our newest ship like a shopping mall and it will still kick your asses from here top proxima centauri 2 out of 3 times! Any day!
Its also faster, with more endurance and our people actually have things to do besides staring stoicly or sleeping on metal: We got gyms. And holodecks. And a huge TRIBBLE garden! A GARDEN! To have romantic moments!
And when push comes to shove, we will rip all that luxury out and replace it with DOOM AND MURDER and then we will gather these flying shopping malls of death into groups and MOB YOU TRIBBLE up by using these behemoths of spacious interior as battering rams to break your formations and lay down the smack with our huge Phaser arrays and rapid fire torpedo systems.
Laugh all you want, the fact remains that our vanity projects still turn out better ships than anything you have ever built in that time frame.
That is so true. The interior of the Galaxy is my favourtie.
Personally i think a T6 could happen the excelsior has been around a long time and just when you think its days are done they retrofit it with current technology.
Think B-52 it has out lived every would be replacement is almost 60-70 years old and is still our best US bomber in service thats excelsior a ship that can be upgraded to fit current needs with current technology.
So Yes a T6 exclesior would be nice and would fit with trek lore and the excelsiors place in it i think if created should be not an upgrade but a stand alone version of the excelsior .
I don't like it, but canon disagrees with you.
And yet strangely I've had phaser arrays on mine since I first got it years ago
And none of that about arrays vs. turrets (?) is canon. Nor does it seem to hold the Klingons or other races back.
You just got 3 FFS...
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Sadly for you, you don't get to decide for others how to resolve conflicts in canon. They get to believe what they want, and you get to believe what you want.
For this, I believe it's a post scarcity culture. And that's where it sits.
Not what I was talking about dude. It was your claimed advantages to arrays.
Assuming that quote is accurate and contains all important information because I'm not going to look it up...
It clearly applies to Deflectors, not the phaser array dude. Seriously, if you're going to quote something, have it be... you know about what you're speaking of.
Also where does it say that the advances were explicitly an element that couldn't be refitted on older designs. Just that the advancement was made (and implicitly that the 'C' didn't have it). Perhaps better cooling methods. Perhaps better materials. Perhaps Unicorn dust.
Basically this boils down to a inconsistent fictional setting with fantasy style technology. Anything the writers want can be had.
And that includes a T6 ship constructed in the style of an Excelsior if the DEVs want one. Fiction is nice that way.
Understand something simple- basic engineering (thermal or otherwise) DOES not apply. Don't use 400 year old concepts to explain a *fictional* setting just so you get your way.
Today's engineering says the following:
Warp Drive is not possible
Phasers are nonsense
The named materials don't exist
Impulse drive as show is not possible
i.e. it's fiction and thus we can't use today's engineering to explain it. Further more, it's not *your* fiction *you* don't get to define what is and is not possible if it's not already defined for *you*.
Here in STO, it's clear that for combat the Excelsior is in the opinion of the player base a better combat ship than the Galaxy. In the opinion of the DEVs it can use the same shields, weapons etc. as the Galaxy.
And dude, that's the end of the discussion. Anything else is your own wishfulfillment.
The implication of the above, is that given the trend towards more Federation Warships- the Excelsior will get a T6 upgrade before the Galaxy.
IMO (nothing more, only part of it is canon) to add a bit more:
The Galaxy was a exploration vessel intended to carry non-combat families in peace time. Combat ability was thus sub-par and explains its poor performance both in actual show and in this game.
Further, the use of Phaser Arrays was not for improved combat capability (as the Defiant, designed as a warship did not use them for its primary weaponry). Rather they were selected specifically because they were recessed and didn't look like weaponry. Thus they helped with the stated canon opinion that the Galaxy was not a military ship.
And back to canon- A ship that Riker thought wasted its time with war training and (according again to the series) and didn't even practice combat drills except under outside pressure.
And back to IMO, this explains why the Excelsior style ships were still in service. A few remained as combat effective ships.
But again, most of that is my own opinion. The Galaxy is the failed emblem of a peaceful and unrealistic Federation poorly suited for a more serious universe such as show in STO. Let it die and get out of the way of a excellent warship design.
Now despite that opinion, I think we should have a skin for all the canon ships at T6 over the next year. Because I don't think you have to like what I like anymore than I have to like what you like.
Make it bigger than the current one and I would buy it. Excelsior is one of the great ships, and Starfleet will be lessened by its passing.
This is wrong. *Earth* has no need for money. The UFP trades with the galaxy and amongst themselves, numerous forms of currencies have been mentioned. Gold pressed Latinum, and "Credits" come to my mind and I am sure there have been mentioning of others as well.
I don't think "turrets" have ever been depicted in canon at all, only exception are DS9 defenses and I think some klingon vessels had something you could consider turrets. The onstitution and Excelsior were shown having paired single beam emitters if I am not mistaken and the Lakota-Type refit did have phaser arrays, but my memory is blurry in that regard
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USS Defiant vs USS Lakota
The Lakota still retains the TOS-movie era dual emitter banks. But it fires in a TNG-style Phaser Beam and not like Phasers did in the TOS-movie era (we are never shown Excelsior firing Phasers, only Photons in Undiscovered Country).
Lakota/Excelsior retains the same basic, dual emitter banks that the Constitution-class Refit and Mirandas had. We also see that Miranda-class ships in the Dominion War era still retained the dual emitter banks but fired the same, familiar TNG-style Phaser Beam.
I'd not only buy one but i'd also buy some of the canon star trek ship with T6 hybrid seatings - there are to few of them left and too much other ships flying around for my taste.
Technically - well this is science fiction isn't it? Give me the shiphulls i saw in the series and films and i will buy them
Give me some of cryptics fantasy hulls and i will pass - it's that easy for me.
T6 Excelsior? Shut up an take my money!
Again, progress, the systems on the Lakota clearly aren't 150+ years old, or if they are then defence systems on starfleet vessels and installations haven't improved at all in the past 150+ years which is clearly not true. If only due to the fact that it is mentioned someone upgraded her weapons.
Dual emitters logically suggests independent cooling systems for each emitter which makes for more efficient cooling than for arrays, another potential advantage over arrays is that you put multiple emitters on the hull and you can potentially fire all of them at once, admittedly each beam will be less powerful than one from an array however if you account for six of these beams to one from an array, I would suggest the 'older' system would win out due to various factors (Energy output, shield strain, etc).
It is also worth noting that over a long period of time dual emitters are probably more efficient than arrays as you can probably fire both emitters in a pair at once so you can alternate as one gets warmer than you want with a little overlap to maintain heat output/shield stress/whatever, with an array you have to start a new beam on another part of the array leading to downtime.
So while dual emitters are an older system, in many ways they are better than arrays when using power and projection systems of the same capacity which we know from the Defiant's pulse cannons do indeed exist in a compatible format.
Which is exactly my point put the other way, nice try but I'm not falling for it. Even if we say that the dual emitter style hadn't been developed since arrays became a thing, the underlying principles are the same and as such advances in arrays can be ported to emitters should arrays not be practical on certain designs, bringing the systems to similar levels of power.
While adding logically to an assertion does not make it correct, it does provoke a line of thought.
If you think about it it's impractical to use independent cooling systems for all the emitters in an array/ It's far more practical to cool them all with one high capacity system or maybe in groups. These would also drain more power as you have to power the cooling system for the whole array and you also have to push power through all the emitters between each end of the array and the projection point to achieve maximum effectiveness, a side effect of this is resistance as power passes through each one which leads to heat buildup and thus energy wastage which is something that the dual emitter system doesn't suffer from as much.
On that note, cooling dual emitters is going to be easier, even independently, takes less power and using a high capacity emitter you can gain similar output, alternatively, you could put a small chain of high capacity emitters under the hull with a single locked projection point for each port achieving similar results, though I'm no engineer so this is all just theory.
Given that all arrays are shown to only fire one beam at a time (yes they can fire rapidly, however there is still only one beam at a time and there is a gap) it is safe to suggest they are set up in series which has the problem of only being capable of firing one beam at a time (this makes sense if you think about the kind of power system you would need to run all the emitters in parallel).
Dual emitters however are set up in parallel (as evidenced by the fact they are shown on screen to fire both ports at once when needed) this means that you can start firing a second beam before the first one is stopped, you simply can't do that (if the previous assertion is correct) with arrays.
While true, it is still a variation of the dual emitter technology which can be adapted to suit the defence systems of the Excel, which was my point when I brought them up.
So it's canon that the class was upgraded to the best standards of the era. That ends that discussion no matter what anyone has to say about it. Clearly, whatever the unexplained technology was, it worked nicely.
And really it's no surprise. The best modern ships are designed for 50 year life spans with refits along the way. To see this increased by the Star Trek era even by a order of magnitude would not out of the question. Vessels such as the Excelsior and K'tinga lasting at least into the DS9 era are proof.
no your wrong
The Excelsior is only 25% bigger than the connie not 4x
It has dual beam banks
That's if you believe gene roddenbury
If you would rather believe someone else there are dozens of GR wannabe's on the internet with false stats of canon Starfleet ships just pick one and be happy :P
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
True
Whatever you could pack into a Defiant you could pack 5x as much into a Excelsior simply because you have more room
Size matters........Ask your wife/girlfriend :P
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I was mistaken in that regard, I somehow painted a beam array on top of the Lakota
I still fail to see how a emitter bank is a "turret" style weapon, skollufr?
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