Need help to increase DPS on T6 Cruiser

saber68

I am looking for advice to improve my T6 tactical command cruiser build. I am an engineer and have always favoured survivability over DPS (I hate getting blown up!). All my builds have centered around hull HP and healing with damage taking a back seat.

I have recently swapped out my borg deflector and engines that I have had forever in favour of the MACO for the extra shield strength. With these upgraded to MK XIV and my elite fleet shield upgraded to MK XIV also, my shields are lasting a lot longer than they did and I am not using half of my usual hull heals, even on advanced STF’s. I’m beginning to think I have overdone it a bit with the defense.

My DPS is currently around 7K, which I know is very poor by some standards and I want to increase it (particularly my crit chance), without sacrificing too much survivability. I have just upgraded all my tac locators to MK XIV and put epic MK XIV CrtDx2 [pen] AP beams on the front which has helped. (Can’t afford the CrtDx3 [pen] just yet).

I am looking for suggestions on my equipment, traits, skills etc. I have most rep stuff and resources are not normally a problem. Any and all help appreciated. The link to my build is below and I have also added a few of my current stats also.

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=t6commandcruiser_0

Crew Recovery Rate: 50% Per Minute
Power Transfer Rate: 204% (10.2 Per Second)
Hull: 90,336
Hull Repair Rate: 145.4% Per Minute.
Shield Regen: 180.5 Per 6 Seconds.
Shield Facings: 13,538 each.
Kinetic Resist: 49.6%
All Energy Type Resist: 50%

Bonus Accuracy: 25%
Crit Chance: 12.8%
Crit Severity: 90.2%

Thanks.

seriousdave

How do you get only 7k whith that build? Spamming BFAW with high weapon power alone should bring you above that since you have high rank/grade weapons and tac consoles.

The thing that hurt the most to see where IMHO those fleet AP weapons. [DMG]x 3 is pretty much the worst thing you can use, except the KBC of course since that is pretty much in it's own league.

birzark

my only suggestion is drop a console like the neutronium and move plasmonic leech there and get another tact console cause unless your a sci don't use the tact slots for anything other than tact consoles.

saber68

I know, I got those a very long time ago before I knew how bad DMG was. I want to upgrade them to CrtDx3 [pen] as soon as I can afford it.

Not sure why the DPS isnt higher. Been using ACT to moniter the DPS and thats what its telling me. I am higher than most people I play with however but it usualy says DPS is around 7k.

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kozar2

I'm going to assume you want to keep the torp so will ignore that. So here are 10 ideas off the top.

1. Go to a Nukara shield and deflector.
2. Run 4 tact consoles
3. Add 2 omni beams in back
4. Buy some ctrdx2 pen and other random mod beam cheap and upgrade them
5. Drop the Neutrino and special consoles for the lobi ones. Console - Bioneural Infusion Circuits, Console - Tachyokinetic Converter, Console - Universal - Bounty Hunter's Friend
6. Drop APO I for ATB II
7. Drop BO I for FAW I
8. Too many points in Hull Plating and Armor Reinforcement.
9. Trait and Space rep changes would help a lot also.
10. Make sure your 2 Tact Boffs are Fleet blue male Romulan SRO's

That should put in the 15-20k range.

synthiasuicide

Ok, quick look at it. Hard for me when a Torps involved.

I'd put Emergency power to Weapons III in place of ET3.
If I HAD to use a torp, then Id go: (With 2 Conn Officers Dropping TT Global)
Torp Spread I, FAW II
TT, Beta, FAW III.

Sadly the Torp alone is taking DPS away from you. Without it:
FAW I, FAW II
TT, Beta, Omega(Or Beta II)

or

FAW I, Beta I
TT, Beta I, FAW III

Traits I'd go get Intense Focus if Possible. It's a nice DPS boost and one of the fairly Resonable to buy Traits.

That second Nuetronium would have to go for Plasmonic leech. Get a 4th Tac console.

I also use the 2 Piece Command set your using.

here's my Build, also an Engineer. And I can take Agro while standing still in ISA and tank it all doing 28-34k. So yeah your over tanking it. lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/2xrc3x/eveready_engie_tank_presidio/


EDIT: Sorry just noticed your using the Command Tree. The Intel Tree also is a DPS boost. IMO its the best of DPS/Survivability. So prob Ignore most my Advice, I don't have a dlue when a Torps involved. And I see your really wanting to make that work. Listen to the other people. lol

noroblad

you want to increase pve dps without losing toughness? Its not too hard here.

1) move the leech and get a 4th tac console.
2) swap the arrays up front for dual banks.
3) swap the rear weapons for 360 beams, crafted, omni quested, and kinetic. The 4th can be a turret, or a mine launcher, or whatever you like.
4) get a better torp. Crafted plasma or one of the unique oddballs like dyson grav, etc. Better, do the crystal for the AP torp reward (?) which might be a great fit here.
5) use the undine deflector.
6) slot a second copy of FAW
7) replace omega with beta (maybe?). If you rely on omega for something specific, leave it be.

8) earn and slot pedal to the metal. *consider* using a very slow engine. Moving at 15-20 impulse is about right to max/min pedal to the metal.

kozar2

noroblad wrote: »

you want to increase pve dps without losing toughness? Its not too hard here.

1) move the leech and get a 4th tac console.
2) swap the arrays up front for dual banks.
3) swap the rear weapons for 360 beams, crafted, omni quested, and kinetic. The 4th can be a turret, or a mine launcher, or whatever you like.
4) get a better torp. Crafted plasma or one of the unique oddballs like dyson grav, etc. Better, do the crystal for the AP torp reward (?) which might be a great fit here.
5) use the undine deflector.
6) slot a second copy of FAW
7) replace omega with beta (maybe?). If you rely on omega for something specific, leave it be.

8) earn and slot pedal to the metal. *consider* using a very slow engine. Moving at 15-20 impulse is about right to max/min pedal to the metal.

He doesn't have anywhere near enough turn for dual banks. The wide spread torp is key to that too I'd say. Not the biggest DPS torp but he can shoot way more often.

tom61sto

kozar2 wrote: »

He doesn't have anywhere near enough turn for dual banks. The wide spread torp is key to that too I'd say. Not the biggest DPS torp but he can shoot way more often.

A base of 8 is more than enough for DBBs, and there's an RCS in that build too.

noroblad

kozar2 wrote: »

He doesn't have anywhere near enough turn for dual banks. The wide spread torp is key to that too I'd say. Not the biggest DPS torp but he can shoot way more often.

If he follows what I said he will have a bunch of turn rate from the pilot tree spec, on top of his RCS... and there are other ways to get turn as well if the ship still feels sluggish.

I don't get this concept/flawed logic anyway. The angle of broadside is 70 degrees. Then angle of DBB up front is 90. Turn rate aside, its easier to keep your targets in a 90 arc than a 70. Broadsiding makes zero sense period on any ship. All you can say for arrays is that 1/2 your weapons are always on a target. Whoopity do ... 4 aft weak weapons are on the target doing meh dps. Its kinda neat for killing really weak stuff fast with faw, but for focused firepower frontal arc is going to be easier to keep on target (wider arc) and hitting harder (better weapon base damage on DBB).

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cmdrscarlet

^ I do the same. Broadsiding with all 8 beams is not flawed logic. It's very logical way of maximizing 4/4 weapon capabilities and speaks to piloting. Although keeping a target up front may also go toward piloting skill, I'd wager that requires the user to stop and shoot.

kozar2

noroblad wrote: »

If he follows what I said he will have a bunch of turn rate from the pilot tree spec, on top of his RCS... and there are other ways to get turn as well if the ship still feels sluggish.

But your advise goes beyond the basics. 20 spec points don't just grow on trees. When giving advice to people I generally try to offer tweaks. Changes to a console or a Boff power. Smaller things that modify the basis of what they are going for. I could strip his entire build and give him a 30k dps cruiser but I don't take that as what he wants. He wants some tips that'll help him keep a tankie cruiser with a torp and squeeze some more dps out of it. Maybe I'm wrong but that was my impression.


And if you don't get broadsiding I'm guessing you don't get circle strafing either. It's much easier to circle and opponent and keep weapons on target (plus it keeps your def up in STO) then to always be nose on to them (which requires a lot of engine cutting and reversing). Certainly in a cruiser.

noroblad

its a goal to work toward. I offered a number of changes, some that can be done immediately and for minimal cost or effort, and some that will take some time and work. And its not the only way to do it, its just way to approach the problem, there are 4 or 5 other ways listed here by other folks.

Yes, its beyond the basics. Yes, spec points take time. But now he can consider my advice and take it in whole or in part, and do as much or as little of it as he likes.

---

Yes, you will have some choices to make for immobile targets like planet killer, or gates, etc. Park and shoot is one. Flyby turn around is another (lowers dps considerably). Use a slow engine and impulse speed works too. Its not much of an issue on ships, but a strategy for immobile targets is needed.... I use the park and shoot usually; it costs me p2m bonus but that is the way it goes sometimes... no build is without some minor drawbacks.

noroblad

cmdrscarlet wrote: »

^ I do the same. Broadsiding with all 8 beams is not flawed logic. It's very logical way of maximizing 4/4 weapon capabilities and speaks to piloting. Although keeping a target up front may also go toward piloting skill, I'd wager that requires the user to stop and shoot.

broadsiding is fine. The flawed logic is that an 8 turn rate can't keep a target in a 90 arc but somehow magically CAN keep it in a 70 degree arc. Its going to take some piloting / planning/practice with both setups to keep the targets in the arc. Arrays are a little easier if you are using 3 omni out of 8... yes. But they hit softer.

Yes, you do have to park for immobile targets that have massive health. Or if not park, do the 1 click forward/reverse dance like a cannon escort. Anything flying, you can generally kill it before it can escape the forward arc.

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birzark

well I'm using reprocity and that requires you to be mobile to keep my defense up and i do fly at full throttle the whole time. I find it way easier to keep the target broadsided as i circle around them then try to keep a target in the forward arc. I just don't have the piloting skills to keep on the move as fast as my ship is and keep a target in my forward arc which is why i broadside.

noroblad

westmetals wrote: »

And you just killed 'Pedal to the Metal'. I've never found park and shoot to be necessary.

Think outside the box a little. Yes, for maximum firepower on a broadside cruiser, you want to keep them in that 70 deg side arc. HOWEVER, with an omni-heavy build, your forward arc is 3/4ths or more of your side arc, so if they're in that area (they either started in that area or slid out of broadside into it), it's almost as good. Only behind you is really bad.

Meanwhile, you can keep moving, keeping your defense and PTTM up.

its a choice. Both builds are plenty effective. DBB will do a little more dps ... here is why...

You gloss over the loss of dps between 4 arrays vs 4 banks to make it sound "almost as good". But it is not. A parked DBB build and a circle strafing broadside boat, both with P2M but the DBB losing it when parked probably cancel each other out, but the DBB ship can use P2M on any nonstationary target -- which is most of em. (cubes are effectively stationary too, so stationary is a loosely defined as moving too slowly and having too much health to en passant). So the DBB ship will do more dps most of the time, and at the worst, it will be about equal. And that *ignores* the sometimes unsafe nose touching full impulse approach (this depends on the target but its not safe on some enemy). You still get the P2M bonus if you just ram into the target and blast away, stuck on it... works great for about half of the few stationary targets out there. (obviously or not, it does not work too well on the planet killer... lol). You only lose P2M on a very small number of specific targets.

I did think outside the box. My very, very carefully selected engine is efficent at the wrong power level, has full x 3 so I can move decently at full impulse, yet with 75 power I still only move at 16 or so impulse. That allows me to P2M anything non "stationary" with a frontal ship without any real problems. People that want to move at 150 impulse will find broadsides to work better.


But at the end of the day its a choice. If he likes broadsides, then broadside. Broadsiding is unarguably effective and fine.

seaofsorrows

Single Beam arrays have a 250' arc, keeping at least 6 weapons on a target is absolute childs play.

Broadsiding allows you to stay at full impulse at all times taking advantage of the Pedal To The Medal trait which one of the easier traits to acquire (15 Skill Points.) Broadsiding also allows you to keep your defense rating as high as possible taking advantage of Reciprocity where applicable.

DBB's to more damage, obviously. But the idea that DBB's are as easy or easier to keep on target then Single Beams is highly inaccurate. In most cases, single beam arrays will out DPS DBB's because while they do less damage per hit, they're firing more often. Note this is 'in most cases.' There are players that are highly adept at a certain play style and have learned to take full advantage, but for the average player looking to increase DPS single beam arrays are a superior options to DBB's on a large cruiser.

wen1503

Slower turn rate ships just need to arc farther out, never have had an issue with npr's.

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aetam1

saber68 wrote: »

I am looking for advice to improve my T6 tactical command cruiser build. I am an engineer and have always favoured survivability over DPS (I hate getting blown up!). All my builds have centered around hull HP and healing with damage taking a back seat.

I have recently swapped out my borg deflector and engines that I have had forever in favour of the MACO for the extra shield strength. With these upgraded to MK XIV and my elite fleet shield upgraded to MK XIV also, my shields are lasting a lot longer than they did and I am not using half of my usual hull heals, even on advanced STF’s. I’m beginning to think I have overdone it a bit with the defense.

My DPS is currently around 7K, which I know is very poor by some standards and I want to increase it (particularly my crit chance), without sacrificing too much survivability. I have just upgraded all my tac locators to MK XIV and put epic MK XIV CrtDx2 [pen] AP beams on the front which has helped. (Can’t afford the CrtDx3 [pen] just yet).

I am looking for suggestions on my equipment, traits, skills etc. I have most rep stuff and resources are not normally a problem. Any and all help appreciated. The link to my build is below and I have also added a few of my current stats also.

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=t6commandcruiser_0

Crew Recovery Rate: 50% Per Minute
Power Transfer Rate: 204% (10.2 Per Second)
Hull: 90,336
Hull Repair Rate: 145.4% Per Minute.
Shield Regen: 180.5 Per 6 Seconds.
Shield Facings: 13,538 each.
Kinetic Resist: 49.6%
All Energy Type Resist: 50%

Bonus Accuracy: 25%
Crit Chance: 12.8%
Crit Severity: 90.2%

Thanks.

You should to 10k+ easily with that loadout. So my first quess would be power settings. Put weapon power to 100 leave it there. No reason to ever change that.

Next bride officers:
Drop bo1. You could ge another faw if you like but bo1 is rather useless
Consider getting a better eptw. I would switch eptw and et. An et1 should be enough, no reason to pass on the additional dmg from eptw3

Gear:
I usually go for borg deflector/engine. But you can use whatever you like I guess.
I am not sure if the gel pack makes much of a difference, you could repalce it with something to increase dmg if you like.
As others have mentioned, move the leech and get another tac console.
You could kick the neutroniums and the rcs I think without too much trouble. There are some nice lobi consoles, like bounty hunter, tachyokinetic and the bioneural if you can afford them.
You could consider a crafted omni beam in the back if you loose your rear weapons too often while firing the torpedo.

Traits:
I would use eps manifold. If you cycle 2 epts you can keep the power bonus always up.
For space rep I would use the the offensive buff for aux power. As an engi you should have pretty good power lvls.

Doffs:
No idea what doffs you are using. I would guess 3 purple dmg control to keep the eptx going. If you are not doing that already you should do it

Piloting:
Make sure to keep firing all your beams, meaning broadsiding. You have a wide angle torp that should help. Also if you point your nose at something try to use faw and have targets for your rear beams.

Also you can always drop the torp. It would be more efficient but I can understand if you want to keep it. Having a torp gives the ship more of a star trek feeling.

These are my thoughts, I hope they help a bit

virusdancer

Say there is a target sitting there...not moving...so you can fly around it in a circle maintaining the 70 arc on the target. Does the target have shields? Are you hitting multiple shield facings as you fly around it?

It's not a single target? Multiple targets all over the place? Are any of the targets actually eating the broadside? Attacking multiple shield facings while flying around?

Trying to fly around in circles to maintain Pedal while staying on a facing...so you're losing arc on weapons and also being affected by the range penalty...basically strafing in a cruiser?

Folks are talking about various things like they're good things...when they're things I joke about doing to sabotage my DPS cause I'm a goofball.

Base damage of an Array? 100
Base damage of a DBB? 130

That's a 30% final modifier to damage. Every boost you could apply to the Array will be 30% better on the DBB. The DBBs will more than make up for any loss from Pedal.

It's part of the reason why there is so much rage about the 2-3 AP OD thing...cause you can 4-5 DBB with the 2-3 AP OD and maybe KCB.

Other flavors just can't match that.

But anyway, as far as the build and 7k DPS...

Range Penalty.

Beams @5km: 84.0% damage.
Beams @<10km: 64.0% damage.
Cannons @5km: 72.5% damage.
Cannons @<10km: 40.0% damage.

Going from @5km to @<10km can be a loss of 20% for Beams and 32.5% for Cannons.

Weapon Power.

@50: 100% damage.
@75: 150% damage.
@100: 200% damage.
@125: 250% damage.

Going from @125 to @75 can be a loss of 100% damage for Energy Weapons.

Travel/Positioning.

Hrmm, no pretty math sort of thing...more simple math sort of thing.

Tom takes twice as long to get everywhere as Jerry. Tom spends half the time engaged compared to Jerry. Everything else the same, Tom's doing half the DPS of Jerry.

The combination of Range Penalty, Average Weapon Power, and travel time between engagements can result in a major difference in DPS between two exact builds. For example:

Both Tom and Jerry have a boat that could do 15k DPS with Beams under perfect conditions.

Tom hangs out just inside 10km.
Tom averages 75 Weapon Power.
Tom spends ~40% of his time traveling around.

Jerry hangs out around 5km.
Jerry averages 125 Weapon Power (magic!).
Jerry spends ~15% of his time traveling around.

Tom: ((15000 / 2.5) * 1.5) * 0.64 * 0.6 = 3456
Jerry: ((15000 / 2.5) * 2.5) * 0.84 * 0.85 = 10710

Same ship...pretty significant little difference there, yeah?

Let's tell Tom his problem is his ship, eh? Upgrade that to a 25k DPS boat!

Tom: ((25000 / 2.5) * 1.5) * 0.64 * 0.6 = 5760

Well, how about a 45k DPS boat?

Tom: ((45000 / 2.5) * 1.5) * 0.64 * 0.6 = 10368

Tom's 45k boat is being outperformed by Jerry's 15k boat...because of those three things.

Work in some buff/debuff cycle management efficiency, and Jerry could have a worse boat and Tom an even better boat...and Jerry will still outperform Tom.

Now, that's not "precise" math up there - just a "gist" sort of thing of how Range, Weapon Power, and Travel can create potentially significant differences between two players running basically the same build.

It's along the lines of why we can have folks at 1k, 10k, and 100k in the game. With all the ratios/percentages, things folks might take for granted can have a major impact. It's why I've said you could put me in one of the DPS guys boats and give them a rebreather and a spork, and they're going to outperform me. They're better at managing all those little things and it's going to add up to have them where they are and have me where I am while I fly around in circles going wheeee.

noroblad

seaofsorrows wrote: »

Single Beam arrays have a 250' arc, keeping at least 6 weapons on a target is absolute childs play.

Broadsiding allows you to stay at full impulse at all times taking advantage of the Pedal To The Medal trait which one of the easier traits to acquire (15 Skill Points.) Broadsiding also allows you to keep your defense rating as high as possible taking advantage of Reciprocity where applicable.

DBB's to more damage, obviously. But the idea that DBB's are as easy or easier to keep on target then Single Beams is highly inaccurate. In most cases, single beam arrays will out DPS DBB's because while they do less damage per hit, they're firing more often. Note this is 'in most cases.' There are players that are highly adept at a certain play style and have learned to take full advantage, but for the average player looking to increase DPS single beam arrays are a superior options to DBB's on a large cruiser.

I guess I find piloting easier than most players then. I have no frame of reference to comment on that, but it seems awfully easy to fly in a (effectively) 2-d setting. But I grew up on 3-d fighter games and moving to 2-d flying here seems childish, really.

As for shield facings and the circle strafe, getting "above" or "below" a target has funny behavior and can help solve the problem. Just like you can "flank" in a raider from a very forgiving approach vector from above, you can focus on one facing as well. You can also drive a figure 8 and bang on one facing, if you have buffed your turn rate to a reasonable level.