Antiprotons are canon as the most "ultimate weapon" in Star Trek. The Doomsday Machine is an example of that.
Federation ships are built to finesse their way past problems, not destroy destroy destroy. The current phaser proc makes sense in light of that. Don't try to make the federation into maniacs focused purely upon brute force.
That's just my point. Anti-Proton are the defacto No.1 weapon type. Why is that. Either buff phasers or nerf Anti-proton. Phasers should be on par with the No. 1 best weapon damage in game. As I said before, phasers are iconic, not anti-proton.
AP has that extra modifier due to it not having a proc.
If you're not min/maxing, you will notice only an insignificant difference, if at all.
Use Phasers, they're fine, really.
Besides, why should Phasers be on par with the best because they're "iconic"? So are Disruptors and Plasma. The game has enough space barbie as it is. No need to make sweeping changes to it for more RP.
If you're really super duper hung up on getting the most out of your Phasers for whatever reason, fly a Fleet Patrol Escort Refit or Vesta. Both the Nadeon Bomb and Quantum Focus Field are Phaser based.
Only because the proc they have sucks (mainly due to the 2.5% chance of it triggering). They should either increase the chance (maybe to like 5-10%) or swap out the proc for a flat bonus - possibly CrtH or Acc? - if they want to rebalance.
In the meantime... antiproton isn't THAT superior. I saw a recent post in which someone pointed out that nine of the top ten recorded DPS parses were antiproton. Want to guess what type the other one was? Phaser.
Which would be because the Nadian Saturation Bomb is buffed by phaser tac consoles. AP is roughly 5% over no proc at all. But that's not to counting the effect that the proc gives to dps. In the end, it's not a huge deal. Just enough of one that the record-setters will care.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Only because the proc they have sucks (mainly due to the 2.5% chance of it triggering). They should either increase the chance (maybe to like 5-10%) or swap out the proc for a flat bonus - possibly CrtH or Acc? - if they want to rebalance.
In the meantime... antiproton isn't THAT superior. I saw a recent post in which someone pointed out that nine of the top ten recorded DPS parses were antiproton. Want to guess what type the other one was? Phaser.
Nah. The proc itself doesn't suck. The lockout (30 seconds iirc) is what nerfs it into uselessness.
I have never understood why these people who run this game decide that the Federation weaponry is so pathetic in comparison to every other type of weaponry. Phasers were good for Kirk, Picard, and Janeway so why do they suck so bad in-game? Why can't we simply balance the weaponry?
It is my position that when a new power comes available that we should be able to go to our respective Intelligence Agencies and acquire a countermeasure. In the very least we need to be able to craft the latest addition to our current weapons.
Crafting at level 60 needs to allow us to select the area of expertise and extend it up to 4X the current power.
Acc
Crit D
Crit H
Exotic Dmg
Kinetic Dmg
How about this [Shield Penetration 20%] up to a total of 80% for HYT skills
No one weapon type should be more powerful than any other it should be up to the captain to decide what weapon type best fits the players gaming style.
Bravo. Agreed completely. STO is a game obviously targeted at trek fans first and foremost, (of which there are many) it should be treated with the respect the Star Trek lore deserves, and not like a cheap asian scammy mmo.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I have characters that I used phasers on also. They are good weapons, like Tets, and others. It is just that other weapons have better procs. Or in the case of the AP, they don't proc, but do extra damage every time they crit.
To make the phaser proc more useful, they should let you pick what subsystem they take offline. There is a 25% chance that when the 2.5% chance hits, it will knock a subsystem offline that will actually be useful. I am talking about in non-PVP. In PVP, other players are using all of their subsystems in one way or another.
Most NPCs are mostly only affected by one, or two of their subsystem powers going offline. If either of their other subsystems go offline, it doesn't really do much to help you.
Though, with AP, and a high crit chance build with increased crit damage, you don't need to take a subsystem offline. The game is being made to be all about DPS, and so I doubt that they will do anything to make phasers more useful, unless they come out with a group of ships that are not selling good, and have a console that does phaser damage. Then they might do something to it.
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You must not forget that "not the 'optimal' thing to use" is not the same thing as "ZOMG! That is suxxorz!"
Indeed.
It is still pretty useful, and if you're using a torpedo build (or allies of you are), I'd even say that Phaser Proc may not raise your DPS, but it might still speed up time to kill - a randomly disabled shield can mean that you need less damage output for the same damage, as you don't need to go through the enemies full shields.
In any instance - there was no particular design concept behind phasers being "weaker" - cryptic just decided that every weapon needed something special. The procs were basically invented before anything of the big endgame content or PvP existed, sometime during the Beta phase.
Personally, I think Phasers having an accuracy bonus would have made more sense. Randomly disabling stuff doesn't seem to fit what Phasers do in the show - it's always intentional.
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The proc is not bad in theory. The problem is that powercreeping completely negated it. To counter for all the damage players dished out Cryptic made PvE enemies just damage sponges with a near immunity to disable effects. If you score a disable proc on anything but your run of the mill episode mob on normal difficulty the subsystem will be resoted after one second or so which effectively negates the effect phasers potentially have.
But they are not the only weapon type forgotten. Tetryons also don't really work since their shield damage was also negated by buffing up NPC shields, in fact NPCs will usually be killed while their shields are still up. Other weapons are also highly situational. The only procs that really stood the test of time are disruptors, AP and plasma because all of those effects directly boost dps and that is what the game is about.
I still use phasers on my Starfleet ships and Disuptor on my Klingon ships. I very rarely use other weapon types longer than just trying out game mechanics and if I do I need a headcanon-rp-y reson to do so
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I don't like AP. I hate the look and the sound it makes when it fires. For immersion's sake I never put anthing else on my ships than phasers for Fed, disruptors for Klingon and Plasma for Romulan ships.
Hrmmm, I could have sworn I already replied in this thread...but apparently it was a reply in another thread recently...and another thread before that...and another thread before that...and yeah, hrmmm, maybe I should just do one reply - bookmark it - then I can just quote it every time this comes up.
IMHO, the current Phaser proc (including all the Phased variants) should be replaced. It's never going to be something that can be balanced. It will always be too powerful or too weak; because it's not something that should just be some random proc, imho. If folks want to do what that, then there are the Subsystem Targeting abilities...yeah? Instead, again imho, the Phaser proc should be something that has a chance to be balanced and offers some fun/interesting gameplay options...rather than the mess it is with that particular proc (and all of the Phased variants).
They arent stronger. Theyre just more optimal for the use of min-maxing for DPS. This does not mean Phasers are weak. It just means if youre trying to squeeze every drop of DPS out of a build you wont be using Phasers.
But plenty of people still stick true to Phasers and push out more then enough DPS everyday. I know more Phaser utilizing Players easily popping 10-20k DPS then Antiproton Players. Why? Because its more about knowing how to build your ship and flying it then simply tossing a specific type of weapon on it and expecting sudden returns.
I'm using phaser dhcs on my main. That 7.5% damage bonus (and that's a real 7.5%, not 7.5% to base that turns out to be something like 1.8%) is pretty awesome. For me that 7.5% is worth more than 20% crtd (about 35% crit rate means 20% crit severity turns into a little under 7% damage), plus I get other little bonuses like buffing my nadeon sat bomb and phaser tail gun and the phaser proc, useless as it is in pve it's better than nothing.
You could try biomolecular phaser or phased biomatter. The procs are better but don't do much.
Yeah, I have a pretty specific situation, but just remember that except for AP and, to a lesser degree, disruptor, procs do almost nothing for your damage.
dont know if it has been suggested before but why not have a visual set up function? as in you tie in a phaser weapon to your antiproton beam and it changes the look of the beam or cannon. doesnt change anything and the function can be auto disabled in pvp zones so as to not confuse people. after all you can have shield looks and borg struts which you can enable or disable. why not beam looks?
If you fly a tempest you pretty much have to use phasers if you want to get the most out of the nadion bomb. I use CrtDx4 Phaser Dual Beam Banks, and my fed does more dps than my Romulan Scimitar using AP.
Largely that's down to escorts suiting my play style more, but I wouldn't say that 'Phasers are weak' at all
dont know if it has been suggested before but why not have a visual set up function? as in you tie in a phaser weapon to your antiproton beam and it changes the look of the beam or cannon. doesnt change anything and the function can be auto disabled in pvp zones so as to not confuse people. after all you can have shield looks and borg struts which you can enable or disable. why not beam looks?
This could be cool, and theres precedent already...
Disabling ground armor appearance and space gear appearance!
I think you should use whatever weapon type you want. I went phasers on my phantom. E cause I wanted to buff the phaser lance. Even then my phasers are critdx2 pen mod and destroy everything pretty quickly. Also even with the short proc it has taken shields down long enough for me to cut the hull down very quickly. Not that shields last that long anyways.
dont know if it has been suggested before but why not have a visual set up function? as in you tie in a phaser weapon to your antiproton beam and it changes the look of the beam or cannon. doesnt change anything and the function can be auto disabled in pvp zones so as to not confuse people. after all you can have shield looks and borg struts which you can enable or disable. why not beam looks?
They actually had a way to change colors in early Beta, but they nixed it. I don't remember the exact reasoning.
Nah. The proc itself doesn't suck. The lockout (30 seconds iirc) is what nerfs it into uselessness.
Oh yes, the single most expensive skill in game.
WAKE UP!
Wide awake here.
The cost of the skill isn't the point of my comment. The point is that the proc is ineffective so needs to be made effective. The problem isn't the frequency of the proc. it is the duration. Increase the duration and that chance to disable a subsystem becomes very powerful. Tie that duration to an expensive skill means players will have to make some serious choices to manage risk. Cost of those captain skills is supposed to be a balancing feature, albeit not so much with the power creep nature of things now.
If the cost of de compiler is to high then address that. Don't tear down the solution to the proc weakness, solve the cost problem.
There. You can go back to sleep now.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Isn't Romulan Plasma up there as well? The drawback to AP is the Core, which is kinda meh unless you're science and Klinks and Roms can't use it. Romulan Set buffs Plasma as much as Undine does Phaser and Disruptor and comes with a BA that uses half the power. You can also add an AMP WC or Sing to it as well.
Also, you need to look at Voth AP, you get the added CritD plus it has a proc to reduce the damage of the attacker by 9.1%. It's better than Fluidic. So isn't the Temporal DBB which has a slow, not a push.
Comments
Federation ships are built to finesse their way past problems, not destroy destroy destroy. The current phaser proc makes sense in light of that. Don't try to make the federation into maniacs focused purely upon brute force.
They don't have a proc.
AP has that extra modifier due to it not having a proc.
If you're not min/maxing, you will notice only an insignificant difference, if at all.
Use Phasers, they're fine, really.
Besides, why should Phasers be on par with the best because they're "iconic"? So are Disruptors and Plasma. The game has enough space barbie as it is. No need to make sweeping changes to it for more RP.
If you're really super duper hung up on getting the most out of your Phasers for whatever reason, fly a Fleet Patrol Escort Refit or Vesta. Both the Nadeon Bomb and Quantum Focus Field are Phaser based.
Which would be because the Nadian Saturation Bomb is buffed by phaser tac consoles. AP is roughly 5% over no proc at all. But that's not to counting the effect that the proc gives to dps. In the end, it's not a huge deal. Just enough of one that the record-setters will care.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Nah. The proc itself doesn't suck. The lockout (30 seconds iirc) is what nerfs it into uselessness.
Oh yes, the single most expensive skill in game.
WAKE UP!
Bravo. Agreed completely. STO is a game obviously targeted at trek fans first and foremost, (of which there are many) it should be treated with the respect the Star Trek lore deserves, and not like a cheap asian scammy mmo.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Same here. I use purple level fleet-issued banks as well as hand units and split-beam rifles for my BOFF's and we kick TRIBBLE just fine with 'em.
To make the phaser proc more useful, they should let you pick what subsystem they take offline. There is a 25% chance that when the 2.5% chance hits, it will knock a subsystem offline that will actually be useful. I am talking about in non-PVP. In PVP, other players are using all of their subsystems in one way or another.
Most NPCs are mostly only affected by one, or two of their subsystem powers going offline. If either of their other subsystems go offline, it doesn't really do much to help you.
Though, with AP, and a high crit chance build with increased crit damage, you don't need to take a subsystem offline. The game is being made to be all about DPS, and so I doubt that they will do anything to make phasers more useful, unless they come out with a group of ships that are not selling good, and have a console that does phaser damage. Then they might do something to it.
It is still pretty useful, and if you're using a torpedo build (or allies of you are), I'd even say that Phaser Proc may not raise your DPS, but it might still speed up time to kill - a randomly disabled shield can mean that you need less damage output for the same damage, as you don't need to go through the enemies full shields.
In any instance - there was no particular design concept behind phasers being "weaker" - cryptic just decided that every weapon needed something special. The procs were basically invented before anything of the big endgame content or PvP existed, sometime during the Beta phase.
Personally, I think Phasers having an accuracy bonus would have made more sense. Randomly disabling stuff doesn't seem to fit what Phasers do in the show - it's always intentional.
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But they are not the only weapon type forgotten. Tetryons also don't really work since their shield damage was also negated by buffing up NPC shields, in fact NPCs will usually be killed while their shields are still up. Other weapons are also highly situational. The only procs that really stood the test of time are disruptors, AP and plasma because all of those effects directly boost dps and that is what the game is about.
I still use phasers on my Starfleet ships and Disuptor on my Klingon ships. I very rarely use other weapon types longer than just trying out game mechanics and if I do I need a headcanon-rp-y reson to do so
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IMHO, the current Phaser proc (including all the Phased variants) should be replaced. It's never going to be something that can be balanced. It will always be too powerful or too weak; because it's not something that should just be some random proc, imho. If folks want to do what that, then there are the Subsystem Targeting abilities...yeah? Instead, again imho, the Phaser proc should be something that has a chance to be balanced and offers some fun/interesting gameplay options...rather than the mess it is with that particular proc (and all of the Phased variants).
They arent stronger. Theyre just more optimal for the use of min-maxing for DPS. This does not mean Phasers are weak. It just means if youre trying to squeeze every drop of DPS out of a build you wont be using Phasers.
But plenty of people still stick true to Phasers and push out more then enough DPS everyday. I know more Phaser utilizing Players easily popping 10-20k DPS then Antiproton Players. Why? Because its more about knowing how to build your ship and flying it then simply tossing a specific type of weapon on it and expecting sudden returns.
You could try biomolecular phaser or phased biomatter. The procs are better but don't do much.
Yeah, I have a pretty specific situation, but just remember that except for AP and, to a lesser degree, disruptor, procs do almost nothing for your damage.
Largely that's down to escorts suiting my play style more, but I wouldn't say that 'Phasers are weak' at all
i dont care much for doing maximum damage and even in advanced i still stick to phasers.
perhaps linking builds that use phasers that work can help others, i will link my build but im sure others have a better one than i do.
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http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=tempestdps_6927
This could be cool, and theres precedent already...
Disabling ground armor appearance and space gear appearance!
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
They actually had a way to change colors in early Beta, but they nixed it. I don't remember the exact reasoning.
Wide awake here.
The cost of the skill isn't the point of my comment. The point is that the proc is ineffective so needs to be made effective. The problem isn't the frequency of the proc. it is the duration. Increase the duration and that chance to disable a subsystem becomes very powerful. Tie that duration to an expensive skill means players will have to make some serious choices to manage risk. Cost of those captain skills is supposed to be a balancing feature, albeit not so much with the power creep nature of things now.
If the cost of de compiler is to high then address that. Don't tear down the solution to the proc weakness, solve the cost problem.
There. You can go back to sleep now.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Also, you need to look at Voth AP, you get the added CritD plus it has a proc to reduce the damage of the attacker by 9.1%. It's better than Fluidic. So isn't the Temporal DBB which has a slow, not a push.
The reasoning was that they wanted players to be able to tell what a weapon was by the color. Gold = phaser, green = disruptor, etc.
Of course, that kinda went out the window with the blue Andorian Phasers and green Biomolecular phasers, but whatever.