1: There has been mention of a particular dev's comments in regards to the future of KDF development. Would someone be so kind as to share with me a link to some media pertaining to said comments? Please and thank you.
I cannot be the only one who thinks this "myth" about a faction appealing or drawing in certain characters is bollocks, can I? I know it is a widespread believe and I see "forum rp" and "faction wars" that extend over PvP in other games as well. But seriously? And if it would be true that KDF does appeal to "more aggressive warrior types" shouldn't Fed player then be educated, enlightened, peaceful diplomats?
for me its no myth i do not play fed side because i see it as the future of a messed up liberal set of ideas that i cant back in the current real world. i much prefer the Klingon mindset . while not perfect as far as a game goes acting like or even remotely supporting the ideas of the federation just is not something i consider fun in any way shape or form.
I am an aggressive person and i think my gameplay reflects that . and why so much of the content in this game is horrible since its just reworked fed content. out of all my toons current and past only 1 of them has ever done the complete story line. i refuse to do that trash on the alts. for me the story line really starts going downhill with the deferi missions. i mean a Klingon tactical officer is not a counselor or preforming brain surgery of what ever it was ? come on.
as for failed missions with feds , well targ the sheer number of feds out there can make it appear that they do not suck, ( but get a dps tracker ) im no dps ***** and really 19k is about my best . but you can be sure the bottom of the list is gonna be a fed in a pug.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
1. PvP is currently completely broken, even totally unplayable.
Just how it was when I left - I remember a similar situation as to what you described. There were a group of players who were against using certain OP abilities or consoles or combinations of consoles, so when you played with certain players it was more of a fair fight, less P2Win . . . and in pugs it was just a free-for-all.
3. The Romulan faction will never be a stand alone faction. The lead designer stated that they made peace between the factions so they won't have to make KDF exclusive content anymore, so you can see how that bodes for the
f(r)action that is not a faction in becomming a true faction.
Huge bummer, but not unexpected. I knew the odds of Romulans ever being a faction to themselves (as they should be) were slim to nil, my beef with LoR was:
I figured that CS/PWI would stop releasing faction-specific content, and the KDF would never get fully-realized. While these events actually coming to pass were actually at one time very openly voiced fears, now that they have happened -
words cannot express how disappointed I am. But, it was not unexpected.
The end of the war? Again, speechless in my disappointment.
I'd like to turn Risa into a re-boot of what happened to Praxis, at this point.
#J.J.Style
3. None. Everything in Delta Rising is cross-faction. It makes very little sense to the KDF playstyle, but then again - it doesn't really shine in terms of typical Fed playstyle either. It's kind of a mush. There are a couple of missions that will make you cringe in the role of a KDF warrior.
I hope things will change under the new EP, it's a wait and see now. Maybe things will turn for the better.
I'm not going to throw money at anything that's not KDF-related. Especially content. And it sounded fairly definitive KDF content was something we wouldn't get. But, dude's not the EP, and if there's a shot we can get his ear, I'll rabble rabble rabble with the KDF. Again . . .
(see you on the 14th if not before that)
for me its no myth i do not play fed side because i see it as the future of a messed up liberal set of ideas that i cant back in the current real world. i much prefer the Klingon mindset . while not perfect as far as a game goes acting like or even remotely supporting the ideas of the federation just is not something i consider fun in any way shape or form. (...)
That seems to me that you are a political reactionary who cannot let go of his hardliner agenda even when enjoying entertainment programs. I do not see that as evident proof that more "aggressive" people flock to the KDF side.
EDIT: Mind you, I do not like to start and discuss politics or ideologies. But those were the most appropriate terms I could think of if it even makes it unbearable for you to play a fictious role. I'd say the same however to people who do not play KDF because they can't bear shooting pixels.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That seems to me that you are a political reactionary who cannot let go of his hardliner agenda even when enjoying entertainment programs. I do not see that as evident proof that more "aggressive" people flock to the KDF side.
EDIT: Mind you, I do not like to start and discuss politics or ideologies. But those were the most appropriate terms I could think of if it even makes it unbearable for you to play a fictious role. I'd say the same however to people who do not play KDF because they can't bear shooting pixels.
ahh im ok not mad and take no offense from what you said for one reason. in my case it is 100% true.
ex military, retired business owner and loudmouth outspoken employee is all i have ever been. and for me playing the bad guys is not fun at all. Thats why I play KDF only.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
ahh im ok not mad and take no offense from what you said for one reason. in my case it is 100% true.
ex military, retired business owner and loudmouth outspoken employee is all i have ever been. and for me playing the bad guys is not fun at all. Thats why I play KDF only.
Except the Klingons ARE the bad guys.
Or did you miss the whole fascist Space Stalins thing.
Just wanted to chime in a bit and mention that as a lifer that has recently came back to the game, (albeit at the beginning of the year) I am finally starting to understand STO again. I have for the first time really started going in on KDF and am Loving it. The doffing is better, and as a normally heavy Romulan/Reman player am loving how amazing plasmonic leech is for them. I prefer it very much right now and hope they get a bit more love in the future. Also I hope to attend the Festival that you are putting on, it sounds like a blast, and as long as it doesn't interfere with March Madness I should be there.
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
I have no idea what locked thread people are talking about. I'll have to try and look for it. As for me, I seem to be a bit of blue, red and green.
I have two lvl 60 Starfleet characters in fairly well-equipped ships. (Sci and Eng respectively.) They do a reasonable amount of DPS, about 15k so they hold their own in an STF.
But I also have a lvl 59 Fed-Romulan tactical toon who does quite a heavy amount of damage in comparison to my Feds.
And finally a lvl 58 KDF ex-Borg Klingon engineer in a Mat'ha. Again she holds her own in STFs.
But I play all of them equally and put the best I can with my resources into each of them. My Klingon isn't neglected. In fact because she's in an active roleplaying fleet she gets quite a lot of my time and attention.
I think I will attend the festival though, I do like my Klingon character-suits me when I'm in a particularly aggressive or killing mood.
just a note that we made a handful of banner sigs to advertise the festival. please feel free to grab one or make your own (we have included a blank logo if youre so inclined). afterall, the more people that see the sigs, the more people will investigate and participate.
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Those are not the Doff missions of good guys.
Yeah because the Federation in STO is totally virtuous and never get up to any shady stuff at all like attacking civilians, violating the sovereign space of another power, pre emprive strikes against another power you have strained relations with, violating treaties at will with other powers as it suits them.
That is without mentioning the whole Undine fiasco.
Yeah because the Federation in STO is totally virtuous and never get up to any shady stuff at all like attacking civilians,
Who are usually either starting it or committing crimes.
violating the sovereign space of another power,
Who is usually doing something stupid, at war with the federation, trying to start a war with the federation, or one or more of the above at once.
pre emprive strikes against another power you have strained relations with,
Usually to prevent the afore mentioned attempts to start a war, or another they're doing something stupid.
violating treaties at will with other powers as it suits them.
As opposed to all the times the other powers would violate treaties with the federation all willy nilly, like the Klingons did. Plus Algeron was defunct when the Romulan Star Empire pretty much died, The Republic doesn't just get to inherit it when its pretty much a new government.
That is without mentioning the whole Undine fiasco.
As opposed to the Klingons start 12 wars at once plan which left them vulnerable to attack at their homeworld twice the second time needing the federation to bail them out. Or their brilliant solution to the Borg invasion which was let the rest of the quadrant burn while they sit back.
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Those are not the Doff missions of good guys.
I was referring to the idiocy you typed in that red part.
And the universe is not two-dimensional. There are no "good" or "bad" species in Star Trek, with the single exception of the Borg and even that's debatable. There are different cultures, civilizations and evolutions. That was one of the points in Star Trek, sadly it seems you've missed it.
...This has positive implications for the future-not just of the game, but of the "Minorities" in STO, including the PvP and KDF playerbases...
...If I didn't think this, if I didnt' have this bit of optimism, I wouldn't have begun trying to organize a fan-driven event for the KDF playerbase, and I wouldn't still be trying to organize it, (See the link in the sig)...
...The positive motivation for working on The Festival of Blood and Fire, is to vitalize the KDF community after more than a year of passive-aggressive neglect and open hostility, slanted mechanics, and an almost sub-audible humm of "Dump your character and play fed"...
Returning to that points... and follow as said tehbubbaloo "...i am fully behind the festival. i cant wait..."
I was referring to the idiocy you typed in that red part.
Which was basically what that Klingons were in the original series, a military dictatorship in space running around conquering planets and oppressing the TRIBBLE out of everyone.
(...)
Those Klingons, it should be noted by you-were without ridges, laddie-their version of the Augments-only contagious and eventually lethal within the species.
(...)
I really wish that people would discard the augment nonsense ENT brought up. The Klingons in TOS and TNG were the same - Rodenberry himself said "they always looked like that" - TOS only didn't have the tech and resources. Mind you, Klingon society and politics were a bit different in the TOS era, but I really wish the augment stuff would be discarded. It is such a phony in-universe excuse to explain basic out-of-universe features that didn't need explaining and further debunks the great in-humour we had about the topic with Worf in DS9.
This demand for "explanation" to create fake depth but in the end it's just a handwave and ruins much of what we had before is like a disease in the "modern" movie and television era. Terrible. *shudders and grunts*
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Who are usually either starting it or committing crimes.
Who is usually doing something stupid, at war with the federation, trying to start a war with the federation, or one or more of the above at once.
Usually to prevent the afore mentioned attempts to start a war, or another they're doing something stupid.
As opposed to all the times the other powers would violate treaties with the federation all willy nilly, like the Klingons did. Plus Algeron was defunct when the Romulan Star Empire pretty much died, The Republic doesn't just get to inherit it when its pretty much a new government.
As opposed to the Klingons start 12 wars at once plan which left them vulnerable to attack at their homeworld twice the second time needing the federation to bail them out. Or their brilliant solution to the Borg invasion which was let the rest of the quadrant burn while they sit back.
My troll detector just lit up like a Christmas tree.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Those are not the Doff missions of good guys.
No...no they're not.
They're the DOff missions of PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO PARTY :cool:
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Or did you miss the whole fascist Space Stalins thing.
depends on your point of view. they dont show the signs of a Stalin Communist government. maybe a closer analogy to nationalist Japan rather than fascist Germany ( evil as it may have been even Spock knew it was extremely efficient) but to those people do you really believe they seen themselves as the bad guys?
or do you just automatically see any opposition to your point of view as the bad guy? if so its ok because i sure as hell do.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Those are not the Doff missions of good guys.
ohh i agree on a few of those doff mission but chalk that up to lazy uninformed devs trying to give a slice of faction species representation. pirates nausicaan, slave orions, both of which i believe should be banished from the Empire if they refuse to adapt the the Klingon ways.
1. bio weapons nah not the bad guy, unless you say your the good guy then condemn the bio weapons and still produce them for your own use ( FEDERATION)
2. Intimidation nah not the bad guy , unless you condemn it and then turn around and do it anyways ( FEDERATION )
3. Bribery,Blackmail & Extortion nah not the bad guy, unless you condemn it then do it all yourself ( FEDERATION - Ferengi )
4. Forced labor camps nah not the bad guys unless you condemn it then do it yourself. (remind me again where tom paris was)
5. ect. what about it ????
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
... Bribery,Blackmail & Extortion nah not the bad guy, unless you condemn it then do it all yourself ( FEDERATION - Ferengi ) ...
WAIT A MOMENT!!! The Ferengi (me and others) the people was wrong with us... we need take some... advantages in gpl because we don't align to FED!! Cryptic pay some gpl to a small group for that!! WE WANT TO CROSS FACTION FERENGI!!!
We understand the Darsek is good than the energy credits!!! but both are... less compare to a LATINUM BAR!!!
Well said that, i hope all understand that we are in Fed side because Cryptic design so. But!! We need to grow as Specie Cross Faction!!
Qapla'
Note: Remember Rule 284 "Deep down, everyone's a Ferengi"
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Those are not the Doff missions of good guys.
Less commonly quoted - but actually more relevant - influences include medieval Mongols (Kahless is basically Ghenghis Khan / Temujin) and, for STIII, Elizabethan England.
Both societies that were brutal but highly effective, had strong codes of honour yet massive infighting, and for all their internal viciousness were not totalitarian dictatorships.
Klingon society is brutal, but it has a certain ammount of internal consistency which is why it's lasted so long. Ironically it is more like most of Human history than the Federation. But it also self regulates, which is why Ezri Dax was either completely missing the point or being incredibly cunning when she wound up Worf to kill Gowron.
anyone who's been a production lead, or foreman on a worksite, can tell you that if the boss decides you're wrong, you're going to bite down and accept being wrong, or you're going to find another job.
since D'Angelo was removed as EP, we've seen positive motion from the developers in addressing balancing and game-breaking bugs introduced during his tour.
I'm suspecting the only reason our sole option for a command level ship isn't the Samsar, is because the new EP made a call and made it stick.
This has positive implications for the future-not just of the game, but of the "Minorities" in STO, including the PvP and KDF playerbases.
(whether you like or not, those two are deeply linked in the history of this game, and their fortunes have tended to follow the same trend-lines.)
well, its definitely looking like the new guy is essentially more of the same old.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Comments
i outlined that particular podcast here.
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for me its no myth i do not play fed side because i see it as the future of a messed up liberal set of ideas that i cant back in the current real world. i much prefer the Klingon mindset . while not perfect as far as a game goes acting like or even remotely supporting the ideas of the federation just is not something i consider fun in any way shape or form.
I am an aggressive person and i think my gameplay reflects that . and why so much of the content in this game is horrible since its just reworked fed content. out of all my toons current and past only 1 of them has ever done the complete story line. i refuse to do that trash on the alts. for me the story line really starts going downhill with the deferi missions. i mean a Klingon tactical officer is not a counselor or preforming brain surgery of what ever it was ? come on.
as for failed missions with feds , well targ the sheer number of feds out there can make it appear that they do not suck, ( but get a dps tracker ) im no dps ***** and really 19k is about my best . but you can be sure the bottom of the list is gonna be a fed in a pug.
Just how it was when I left - I remember a similar situation as to what you described. There were a group of players who were against using certain OP abilities or consoles or combinations of consoles, so when you played with certain players it was more of a fair fight, less P2Win . . . and in pugs it was just a free-for-all.
Bummer, but not unexpected.
Bummer, but not unexpected.
Huge bummer, but not unexpected. I knew the odds of Romulans ever being a faction to themselves (as they should be) were slim to nil, my beef with LoR was:
I figured that CS/PWI would stop releasing faction-specific content, and the KDF would never get fully-realized. While these events actually coming to pass were actually at one time very openly voiced fears, now that they have happened -
words cannot express how disappointed I am. But, it was not unexpected.
The end of the war? Again, speechless in my disappointment.
I'd like to turn Risa into a re-boot of what happened to Praxis, at this point.
#J.J.Style
Yeah, I found it. Sounds fairly definite at this point. Had I not abandoned all hope long ago, I certainly would now.
Still, no new KDF- specific content is one heck of a reason not to invest in LoR or Delta Rising.
Vote with your wallet, eh?
Yeah, I remember the Dorn VO. That was excellent.
In that case, I'll save my time and money.
I'm not going to throw money at anything that's not KDF-related. Especially content. And it sounded fairly definitive KDF content was something we wouldn't get. But, dude's not the EP, and if there's a shot we can get his ear, I'll rabble rabble rabble with the KDF. Again . . .
(see you on the 14th if not before that)
Many thanks, much appreciated.
That seems to me that you are a political reactionary who cannot let go of his hardliner agenda even when enjoying entertainment programs. I do not see that as evident proof that more "aggressive" people flock to the KDF side.
EDIT: Mind you, I do not like to start and discuss politics or ideologies. But those were the most appropriate terms I could think of if it even makes it unbearable for you to play a fictious role. I'd say the same however to people who do not play KDF because they can't bear shooting pixels.
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ahh im ok not mad and take no offense from what you said for one reason. in my case it is 100% true.
ex military, retired business owner and loudmouth outspoken employee is all i have ever been. and for me playing the bad guys is not fun at all. Thats why I play KDF only.
Except the Klingons ARE the bad guys.
Or did you miss the whole fascist Space Stalins thing.
*facepalm*
What that was their shtick before TNG turned them into one dimensional space viking bikers.
Besides have you looked at the Klingons Doff mission in game where we get piracy, selling slaves, developing biological weapons, intimidation, bribery, blackmail/extortion, forced labor camps, and ect.
Those are not the Doff missions of good guys.
I have no idea what locked thread people are talking about. I'll have to try and look for it. As for me, I seem to be a bit of blue, red and green.
I have two lvl 60 Starfleet characters in fairly well-equipped ships. (Sci and Eng respectively.) They do a reasonable amount of DPS, about 15k so they hold their own in an STF.
But I also have a lvl 59 Fed-Romulan tactical toon who does quite a heavy amount of damage in comparison to my Feds.
And finally a lvl 58 KDF ex-Borg Klingon engineer in a Mat'ha. Again she holds her own in STFs.
But I play all of them equally and put the best I can with my resources into each of them. My Klingon isn't neglected. In fact because she's in an active roleplaying fleet she gets quite a lot of my time and attention.
I think I will attend the festival though, I do like my Klingon character-suits me when I'm in a particularly aggressive or killing mood.
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Yeah because the Federation in STO is totally virtuous and never get up to any shady stuff at all like attacking civilians, violating the sovereign space of another power, pre emprive strikes against another power you have strained relations with, violating treaties at will with other powers as it suits them.
That is without mentioning the whole Undine fiasco.
Who are usually either starting it or committing crimes.
Who is usually doing something stupid, at war with the federation, trying to start a war with the federation, or one or more of the above at once.
Usually to prevent the afore mentioned attempts to start a war, or another they're doing something stupid.
As opposed to all the times the other powers would violate treaties with the federation all willy nilly, like the Klingons did. Plus Algeron was defunct when the Romulan Star Empire pretty much died, The Republic doesn't just get to inherit it when its pretty much a new government.
As opposed to the Klingons start 12 wars at once plan which left them vulnerable to attack at their homeworld twice the second time needing the federation to bail them out. Or their brilliant solution to the Borg invasion which was let the rest of the quadrant burn while they sit back.
I was referring to the idiocy you typed in that red part.
And the universe is not two-dimensional. There are no "good" or "bad" species in Star Trek, with the single exception of the Borg and even that's debatable. There are different cultures, civilizations and evolutions. That was one of the points in Star Trek, sadly it seems you've missed it.
Returning to that points... and follow as said tehbubbaloo "...i am fully behind the festival. i cant wait..."
tlhIngan maH!
Ni'tokor bak'to
Qapla'
Which was basically what that Klingons were in the original series, a military dictatorship in space running around conquering planets and oppressing the TRIBBLE out of everyone.
I really wish that people would discard the augment nonsense ENT brought up. The Klingons in TOS and TNG were the same - Rodenberry himself said "they always looked like that" - TOS only didn't have the tech and resources. Mind you, Klingon society and politics were a bit different in the TOS era, but I really wish the augment stuff would be discarded. It is such a phony in-universe excuse to explain basic out-of-universe features that didn't need explaining and further debunks the great in-humour we had about the topic with Worf in DS9.
This demand for "explanation" to create fake depth but in the end it's just a handwave and ruins much of what we had before is like a disease in the "modern" movie and television era. Terrible. *shudders and grunts*
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My troll detector just lit up like a Christmas tree.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
No...no they're not.
They're the DOff missions of PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO PARTY :cool:
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
No, theyre doff missions of perfect guys.
Know the difference
It could save your life...
depends on your point of view. they dont show the signs of a Stalin Communist government. maybe a closer analogy to nationalist Japan rather than fascist Germany ( evil as it may have been even Spock knew it was extremely efficient) but to those people do you really believe they seen themselves as the bad guys?
or do you just automatically see any opposition to your point of view as the bad guy? if so its ok because i sure as hell do.
ohh i agree on a few of those doff mission but chalk that up to lazy uninformed devs trying to give a slice of faction species representation. pirates nausicaan, slave orions, both of which i believe should be banished from the Empire if they refuse to adapt the the Klingon ways.
1. bio weapons nah not the bad guy, unless you say your the good guy then condemn the bio weapons and still produce them for your own use ( FEDERATION)
2. Intimidation nah not the bad guy , unless you condemn it and then turn around and do it anyways ( FEDERATION )
3. Bribery,Blackmail & Extortion nah not the bad guy, unless you condemn it then do it all yourself ( FEDERATION - Ferengi )
4. Forced labor camps nah not the bad guys unless you condemn it then do it yourself. (remind me again where tom paris was)
5. ect. what about it ????
WAIT A MOMENT!!! The Ferengi (me and others) the people was wrong with us... we need take some... advantages in gpl because we don't align to FED!! Cryptic pay some gpl to a small group for that!! WE WANT TO CROSS FACTION FERENGI!!!
We understand the Darsek is good than the energy credits!!! but both are... less compare to a LATINUM BAR!!!
Well said that, i hope all understand that we are in Fed side because Cryptic design so. But!! We need to grow as Specie Cross Faction!!
Qapla'
Note: Remember Rule 284 "Deep down, everyone's a Ferengi"
Less commonly quoted - but actually more relevant - influences include medieval Mongols (Kahless is basically Ghenghis Khan / Temujin) and, for STIII, Elizabethan England.
Both societies that were brutal but highly effective, had strong codes of honour yet massive infighting, and for all their internal viciousness were not totalitarian dictatorships.
Klingon society is brutal, but it has a certain ammount of internal consistency which is why it's lasted so long. Ironically it is more like most of Human history than the Federation. But it also self regulates, which is why Ezri Dax was either completely missing the point or being incredibly cunning when she wound up Worf to kill Gowron.
well, its definitely looking like the new guy is essentially more of the same old.
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I only want the new EP to do one thing:
Be the 'Weyoun' to Geko's 'Dukat'.
Or in other words, pull his leash and not give him such total freedom and power like D'angelo seemed to allow, and to some extent, D'stahl.