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Torpedoes damage and crew need revamp to be more useful and my ideas how to get it
vedran0picard
Member Posts: 26 Arc User
STO in general is great game but two things is too unrealistic torpedo weapons damage and crew.
1. Torpedoes need big revamp to be more useful and more close to Star Trek reality in which torpedoes is much stronger then beams but ships have it in limited numbers So Cpt. Janway don't use it too much due she can't refill its supplies of Torpedoes. For now beams is more useful in STO and players mostly use beams in ship builds but this is very unrealistically.
My option is that will be better that STO devs made torpedoes more stronger but that it number is consumable from ship storage and that must be refiled in Starbase for moderate sum of money. Photon Torpedoes will be most cheaper Tricobalt must expensive. So ships we will equip with torpedo tubes and then we buy torpedoes for it.
2. I think that ship crew losing rate and their impact in battle need revamp! I think that it mechanic need revamp. In reality when ship all ship crew become KIA game is over and ship can't continue with fight.
So I think that in STO we lost crew too fast and it number have little impact in battles. My option is that you need to make its losing much more harder but on other side that Impact of KIA crew have bigger impact on ship systems and combat skills of ship this will be much closer to reality.
What is your options about these two things?
PS I like increasing of level cap to 60 but I think that last rank need to be 4 star Admiral not Fleet Admiral. Now we all hold rank of Fleet Admiral which funny mean that we are ALL Chiefs of Starfleet in reality only one person can hold this rank.
This will also you made problem in new increasing of lvl XP limit in future so I suggest that Admirals rank don't be connected with lvl of XP that it be connected with number of battles which we fought or something similar.
1. Torpedoes need big revamp to be more useful and more close to Star Trek reality in which torpedoes is much stronger then beams but ships have it in limited numbers So Cpt. Janway don't use it too much due she can't refill its supplies of Torpedoes. For now beams is more useful in STO and players mostly use beams in ship builds but this is very unrealistically.
My option is that will be better that STO devs made torpedoes more stronger but that it number is consumable from ship storage and that must be refiled in Starbase for moderate sum of money. Photon Torpedoes will be most cheaper Tricobalt must expensive. So ships we will equip with torpedo tubes and then we buy torpedoes for it.
2. I think that ship crew losing rate and their impact in battle need revamp! I think that it mechanic need revamp. In reality when ship all ship crew become KIA game is over and ship can't continue with fight.
So I think that in STO we lost crew too fast and it number have little impact in battles. My option is that you need to make its losing much more harder but on other side that Impact of KIA crew have bigger impact on ship systems and combat skills of ship this will be much closer to reality.
What is your options about these two things?
PS I like increasing of level cap to 60 but I think that last rank need to be 4 star Admiral not Fleet Admiral. Now we all hold rank of Fleet Admiral which funny mean that we are ALL Chiefs of Starfleet in reality only one person can hold this rank.
This will also you made problem in new increasing of lvl XP limit in future so I suggest that Admirals rank don't be connected with lvl of XP that it be connected with number of battles which we fought or something similar.
Post edited by vedran0picard on
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Torpedoes just need a scaling bleedthrough dependent on the hp of the shield it impacts. Crew just needs to survive more, provide more passive hull regen and effect healing much more.
In regards to rank, we should just be captains at every level.
You can use the omega set launcher if you want that experience no?
I came to the following conclusions:
1) A separate slot for torpedoes and only torpedoes.
Right now, no one uses torps except for sci ships, as doing so severely cuts into the dps of energy-weapons builds by forcing us to sacrifice 1 forward weapons slot. This creates a huge disincentive to use torps on cruisers or escorts. However, in order to allow all-torpedo builds , the usual 4 forward weapons slots should also be able to equip torpedoes as well as the usual energy weapons. This would not be without its own disadvantages, however.
2) Torpedos can only be used a limited number of times per mission, but refill at the end of the mission automatically and for free.
This prevents over-use of torps, and forces people to use them strategically, without creating the cost or pain of having to restock on torps somewhere. In short, I think this would create an excellent ballance between having a situation where torps cost too much or are too much of a pain to use at all, and where torps are over-used all the time.
3) Different torpedos have different numbers of uses per mission, along with other stats
ie: 1 big torpedo like the bio-neural warhead, or many small torps like photon. It could allow players to choose if they want spike damage or a sustained DPS throughout the mission.
4) A torpedo launcher, which can load multiple torps, one at a time, to full capacity, then fire off 1 at a time, or unload all at once in a massive volley
Basically you have like 25 torpedoes in reserve, and a torpedo launcher with a capacity of say, 3 -6 torpedoes. It loads 1 new torpedo into the launcher every 30 seconds until all 6 have been loaded. You can press 1 button to fire off a single torpedo at once, or wait until there are multiple torpedos loaded, and press a volley button, and fire all of the torps in the launcher at once. It would be EVEN better, if the "High Yield" and "Scatter Volley" BOff abilities WERE those buttons.
So for example, if I have 3/6 torps loaded and I punch the "Scatter Volley" button, it immediately fires three torps at the nearest three targets. Or if I punch "High Yield" it fires all three availible torps at one target.
And yes, please change the Living/Disabled/Dead crew mechanic to something else that makes more sense. A ship with half of its crew in the sickbay is not going to function as well as one that has a full crew.
This would be the assumption but, in reality your hull regen rate no matter how full your crew is, doesn't do really anything for you once engaged in combat!
It works only when out of combat 99.9% of the time, the other 0.1% represent those instances where people dedicate everything under the sun, to try and have a somewhat viable regen rate while in combat!
Otherwise, when normally in combat the whole crew system, does nothing to aid you in regards to healing your hull!
You can easily suffer your regen rate or, more just from incoming bleed thru dmg alone during combat!
This is made worse, as your crew simply dies left and, right on top of this.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Wrong.
Crew very slightly increases the hull regen rate, which is then 10% of normal during combat. So it doesn't matter if your crew is full or empty - your in combat hull regen (when you'd want it most), is bunk.
Also crew 'die' as a percentage when you get hit by torpedoes, and then 'get healed' as a flat number, so smaller ships tend to have full crew while larger ships have everyone dead.
The entire thing is useless, needs to be removed from the UI, and has been that way since launch.
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Very true, but most people are hesitant to build a good torp boat out of the new command ships. That Tachyon console is an excellent shield buster, specially with the 4 piece range boost.
im going to describe my build in the builds section in a bit. Ive had a lot of good luck with it so far -- it could be better, but its been very fun...
An incentive to actually use forward torpedoes on a beam boat may not be a bad thing. However, torpedoes don't seem terribly out of balance. They have a significant penalty vs shields but tend to be more effective than beams against hull. You don't run a conventional escort as a torp-boat because it would take forever to beat down shields.
With regards to the limited numbers of torpedoes; this is a game, not a television show simulator. In Voyager, you have an isolated vessel that is (best case) years away from repple depple. The odds of finding a foreign torpedo that just happens to fit/work in your tubes is unlikely. So you conserve the warheads you have. In game, you're a transwarp hop away from resupply.
Your "pay to reload" torpedoes would have the opposite effect of what you want. Paid reloads incentivize the use of "free to fire" weapons.
The crew mechanic probably does need a revamp. I have seldom noticed an impact from crew numbers (but I mostly fly smaller ships with small crews).
I had read the mechanic as "disabling" or "injuring" crew, not killing them. It's reasonable that disabled crew may return to their posts after medical treatment. And ship systems are often portrayed as having a great deal of automation. I don't think you'd be "out of the fight" with your entire crew disabled, but certainly a scaling debuff may be applicable. But would a scaling debuff be fun? I already die fast enough when things go sideways.
Oh heck no. Tying titles/ranks to "number of battles" is doomed to be abused. I remember the nightmare that was the Force Ranking System in SWG and all the fight-clubbing that was attached to it. Is it silly we all have access to the "Fleet Admiral" title? Maybe. But anyone that is bothered by it can turn it off or change it.
Hi :-)
I fly an escort that uses torpedoes as primary weapons. While shields are annoying, there are ways to deal with or bypass them:
1) slot a beam that is properly coded to process the BO DOffs (please fix Experimental Proton Weapon :-))
2) A properly working Neuronic torpedo with a flow caps build would temporarily drop shields for other torpedoes to hit hull.
Granted, both in game are RNG right now (one, by design, one, not so much), but I, and a few others, make do, especially in team settings.
The "one projectile at a time" mechanic needs to be abolished.
Fix the flight speed and hit box mechanic for standard torps.
Allow the tricobalt DOff to work for ALL HY slow torps.
A functional Command spec tree that is not reliant on energy weapons to process torpedo benefits would be ideal, but I do not believe that was the intent of said tree.
A diversity of "specialist torps" vs specific mobs (like the Enh Bio-molecular), or utility torps (like Particle Emission Plasma). EMP/subspace field distortion torps would be nice(anti-shield, weak kinetic).
Shortening of mine cool down/activation time.
A universal +kinetic console
KCB boosted by kinetic/torps/mine consoles & powers.
Just a few ideas off the top of my head.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
HY torps aquire new targets, at least those that I've seen so far. Many HY and some regular torpedoes are targetable, yes. Don't use those. Heck, there's some mission reward torps that have 40% shield penetration built in. With abilities, that goes higher. Doesn't matter as much, though, on advanced and elite due to the higher Kinetic DR on NPCs. With that said, I would love something that makes them viable at high-end-game level play. Beamspam or cannons is the way to go solo. Working in a team with command skills requires paying attention and/or teamspeak. I almost wish more people would use the built in voice-chat when pugging. That said, Ionic Turbulence is good for all damage, along with the flanking bonus from raiders and the intel skill tree.
So in relation relating to torpedo needing a boost the best way I see would be to reduce global cooldown to 1 sec instead of 1.5 sec. I believe that alone would make up for lackluster usability against shields. That higher fire rate alone combined with 2-3 projectile doffs would make torpedos as dangerous as energy weapons and make them more even.
Other than that for torpedos the only other thing I can see would be a sligtly higher speed for all of them. When I mean slightly I mean more like hargpen torp speed or close too for normal torp. Destructible torpedo I would make them just a little slower than photon, not that fast but not as slow as they are now. This relate to a problem I encounter sometimes with really high dps teams, torpedo don't have time to connect to anything, everything is dead before they reach them..... Hard to do damage that way...
As for crew dying, I always draw lots of agro so crew is relative for me, never pay it much attention since they spend a lot of time unconcious or dead. I adapted Maco/Honor Guard 2 pieces on both torpedo boat and that 2 pce combo helps to keep crew alive and regenerate them quickly. Doesn't seem to make much difference either way so until they really do something about it I worry about other things.
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
Perhaps change the number of torpedoes fired, like 1x for sci ships, 2x for escorts and 3x for battlecruisers and 4x for full cruisers.
Canonicly, cruisers have always been the heavy hitters, which makes sense given that their sheer size gives them the physical capabilities to carry larger torpedo launcher systems and more torpedoes than other ships.
I mean just compare an Intrepid class complement of roughly 40 photon torpedoes, vs the 250 a Galaxy Class starship can carry, not to mention the laters capability of firing off clusters of torpedoes.
The Sovereign Class put even more extra emphasis on torpedo firepower by not only having 9 photon torpedo launchers, but also a dedicated Quantum Torpedo turret as part of its principle armament.
Also, the ineffectiveness of torpedoes vs shields is rather shameful, given that it was usually torpedoes that managed to put a serious dent in real tough targets.
Perhaps one could keep the current damage reduction against shields, but have torpedo hits add a temporary shield heal debuff of say 50% for 5 seconds.
With a game as mature as STO, simple numerical changes are more likely to be seen over major mechanics changes. Luckily, there are a lot of simple number changes that can be changed to get the balance right. Oftentimes in MMO, it's not a major revamp that's needed, it's just number changes.
Some numbers that can be changed:
1. Inherent shield resistance against kinetic - Torpedoes become more or less effective against shields.
2. Increase all PvE enemy energy resistance - Energy becomes a shield buster, but hull busting is best served by torpedoes. Or decrease PvE enemy kinetic resistance, possibly into negatives.
3. Increase Torpedo damage across the board - Pretty self explanatory
Personally, I like the mechanic of timing torpedo strikes. I'd actually think it would be interesting to double torpedo damage and INCREASE shield resistance so that on shielded targets the same amount of damage gets through, but unshielded targets get a lot more damage.
The only mechanic change I think would be good would be disabling a shield facing for X seconds once reduced to 0. I'd have the shield facing flash in the HUD to represent that. It would provide a window of vulnerability that would allow even broadside crusiers to turn to face the target and fire torpedoes. If the numbers were tweaked so that was the right decision for broadside crusiers, torpedoes become viable. This would address the "sliver of shield" problem.
The torpedo vulnerability also would make facing more important for players as well. Right now, kinetic protection is just hitting redistribute. If players were also vulnerable in such a manner, turning to put a raised facing to the target becomes a wise tactical move, even if it removes weapons from the firing arc.
For now players which use all Antiproton beams in their ships will bet us which use sets as builds for our ships and this is unfair at least to me.
We use much of Dilitrium and time in collecting reputation marks for made them and it is weak and practically useless in compared with non set weapons builds (especially torpedoes from set). So Torpedoes definitely need revamp and sets too (to become useful)
I Personally have 7 space sets and use 4 of them with my ships:
1. Omega Adapted Borg Technology Set
2. Protonic Arsenal Set
3. Delta Alliance Ordnance Set
4. Assimilated Borg Technology Set
Qapla!
More often than not you cant fix broken/unintended mechanic with number games. Its excactly these "simple solutions" that get us where we are.
Your idea might be fine for the standard user, but then someone comes up, pairs his torpedos with 5 damage consoles, onehits the sh** out of you and we have a new thread about overpowered torpedos. :rolleyes:
Why do I get the feeling that you're clairvoyant? :-). We'll see come March.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.