first of all the big problem is not from players who have high dps (high=more than 40-50k imo). they just play the game as they want and try to be better and better.
second i don't think the minimum is 1k...smirk did under 1k in a live stream wher he was suppose to show us a great ship that we would buy it. why the hack would i want to buy a ship that does 1k dps and cant get me through a que without dying? imo this shows how professionals they are at cryptic.
3rd 10k is not a good dps now with the DR... don't take it in a bad way OP i fly 7k builds myself just for fun, but i try to have a build that can hit 30k or at least 20k.
4rd isa maybe isnt the best option there, but everybody got used to it and we managed to have a common ground, a standardization, and thats a good thing! changeing it would create more haos...
5rd there was someone that said he had single target good dps but in the end his dps was only a few hundreds. sorry to tell you but your single target dps has to be pretty low as well.
6rd the gap between players from 1k to 160k is huge and the OP is right. it has to be diminished, but not nerfing high end dpsers. there has to be new tutorials, new tooltips for new players. cryptic need to make them understand the game. they standard layout from a new ship is stupid! who the hell was the person from the dev team who thought that putting torps, ba and dbb on a ship is good thing? maybe it is in pvp, but for pve is kind a lame. (maybe someone can show a build with this kind of stuffs in it that can put 30k dps). is great that people want to try new build but cryptic should not suggest this kind of builds as a preset.
7rd cryptic should promote the chat channel in a better way. they are great for new players to learn the depths of the game from interaction with other players more than just a few minutes in a que or on the zone chat where everybody is troller wanna be.
but the biggest problem is the lack of interest shown by cryptic. i mean..come on! a livestream where you show us a new ship that does less than 1k dps? if this is a joke i'm not laughing
3rd 10k is not a good dps now with the DR... don't take it in a bad way OP i fly 7k builds myself just for fun, but i try to have a build that can hit 30k or at least 20k.
10K is fine, still, for all but a couple of specific missions.
I do not usually parse, but it was interesting the group I was in the other night. It had 3 fed no dps tank ships, me, and one of the new fed ships (I think, yall all look alike, ...). Just a basic pugged ICA.
We got to the first gate and one of the low dps guys goes down, someone shoots all the generators (after the cube, thankfully) and the nanites are about 10 feet from healing it when it blows. Close. I suggest we focus fire on the next transformer as a team, and we spend like 5 min clearing all the spheres and head over. Blow the second on in the nick of time, and spend 15 min wrapping up the run but it was a success. Yea, it took longer than it should have, but we did it.
Then someone posted the parse. I won't say which was me -- its not relevant anyway.
2k.
2k.
5k.
10k.
17k.
If everyone had had 10k it would have gone faster and smoother. Everyone with 10k would have been 50k dps team wide. We only had 36/50 and *still won*, nailbiter.
10k is fine dps. If everyone had at least this much, there would be very little moaning and groaning about how hard the game is, how objectives are not completed, etc. No, its NOT much compared to the top players, that is true. But its still more than fine. It would make my day to see everyone in all pugs pulling 10k.
10K is fine, still, for all but a couple of specific missions.
10k is adequate for most content yes, as it has always been.
But in the grand scheme of things, and looking at all of the build enhancements we have been given since DR, 10k is not a "good" dps number nowadays. The point is that it is as easy to push past 20k now, as it was to push 10k a year or so ago.
Just look at the evolution of populations in the 10k and 30k channels. PESTF has already begun to die out because so many people are getting accepted into the 10k channel.
No harm to the people doing 1K damage but that's your own fault. You can get 10k dps out of all the free stuff from missions. They just have to be smart enough :rolleyes:
1. People who are playing for fun (1-5K DPS)
This group plays with a setup on how they think items should work.
** Mostly think this is how it worked on TV.
*** People who don't read the forums ever.
**** The true source of STF failures.
2. People who are playing STO the game and using items per game mechanics.
How do you get group # 1 to read the forums or any type of guide.
I saw a suggestion the other day where someone said Cryptic should put a mission in the game that gives you a rank based on your DPS, Healing, and ability to survive.
Then label each queue with a suggested rank level, so people would now if they need a suggested rank of 10 and they got a 1. It just might not be a successful mission for them.
1. People who are playing for fun (1-5K DPS)
This group plays with a setup on how they think items should work.
** Mostly think this is how it worked on TV.
*** People who don't read the forums ever.
**** The true source of STF failures.
2. People who are playing STO the game and using items per game mechanics.
How do you get group # 1 to read the forums or any type of guide.
I saw a suggestion the other day where someone said Cryptic should put a mission in the game that gives you a rank based on your DPS, Healing, and ability to survive.
Then label each queue with a suggested rank level, so people would now if they need a suggested rank of 10 and they got a 1. It just might not be a successful mission for them.
I probably fit into Group Number 1 - I do play it for fun and have just returned to the game after an 18 month absence. That said I do want to improve and do read the forum and am trying to get to grips with what I 'need' to be doing to improve things as opposed to what I 'think' I need to be doing.
I do read the forums and have read this particular thread with great interest and have read some great things in it.
That some fleets actually examine their members builds to give them further advice - would be good to find a fleet that helps it's members in this way
That Cryptic should produce a particular mission to be played that would actually result in me being given a rank of 1 to 10 thus showing me or any other player how good or bad their builds actually are
The forums are a great read and provide lots of useful information but sometimes those that are good at the game describe some things in terms that an average player like myself would find difficult to understand.
To go back to the original theme of the post - if someone is capable of creating a build that is 100 times better than mine, I personally do not have a problem with it - perhaps if I had spent the time and effort they obviously have done I could produce a similar build. Each to his own.
I saw a suggestion the other day where someone said Cryptic should put a mission in the game that gives you a rank based on your DPS, Healing, and ability to survive.
LOL and it was met with great disdain and anger. Most people doing awful DPS don't want to improve, or have it referenced in any way, because reasons.
Yea, it took longer than it should have, but we did it.
Then someone posted the parse. I won't say which was me -- its not relevant anyway.
2k.
2k.
5k.
10k.
17k.
If everyone had had 10k it would have gone faster and smoother. Everyone with 10k would have been 50k dps team wide. We only had 36/50 and *still won*, nailbiter.
I believe the absolute minimum team DPS for ISA, calculated from the characteristics of the mission, is in fact 35k.
I probably fit into Group Number 1 - I do play it for fun and have just returned to the game after an 18 month absence. That said I do want to improve and do read the forum and am trying to get to grips with what I 'need' to be doing to improve things as opposed to what I 'think' I need to be doing.
If you're reading the forums and trying to improve, I highly doubt you're going to be in the 1k to 5k range unless something has gone really wrong.
If you're reading the forums and trying to improve, I highly doubt you're going to be in the 1k to 5k range unless something has gone really wrong.
From what I've seen in testing PUGs, the average person is 7-12k. That's "played through the missions" average, with gear/accolades acquired via mission rewards.
I believe the absolute minimum team DPS for ISA, calculated from the characteristics of the mission, is in fact 35k.
Well, if one really want to nitpick, the dps-requirement of ISA is.... very low, 2k maybe (it has to be higher than npc regen) if you have enough CC on board (teamwide maybe^^), because it can only fail if the spheres can heal the transformator.
Same holds true for kasa, csa. Only HSA can fail because of time.
But in the end one has to make an estimation of how long a mission should take, since 2k dps would mean a few hours of playing (2.4min per sphere, not counting regeneration) isa. I think most ppl will agree that any STF (anti borg) shouldnt take longer than 30min in the worst group and not longer than 15min in a normal pug, though then you would most likely carry the whole thing.
The basic assumption about 10k/player is that you will have no problems with that if you have no CC and no one TRIBBLE up.
Most players complain because things are dps-gated or time-fails, though that isnt the case in the most played missions...
Well, if one really want to nitpick, the dps-requirement of ISA is.... very low, 2k maybe (it has to be higher than npc regen) if you have enough CC on board (teamwide maybe^^), because it can only fail if the spheres can heal the transformator.
Huh, I thought ISA had a non-optional 15 minute timer now?
Comments
I didn't read your entire post, but I think you're missing parentheses. I think you mean
X/Y > X/(Y+Z) when X > 0, Y > 0, and Z > 0
second i don't think the minimum is 1k...smirk did under 1k in a live stream wher he was suppose to show us a great ship that we would buy it. why the hack would i want to buy a ship that does 1k dps and cant get me through a que without dying? imo this shows how professionals they are at cryptic.
3rd 10k is not a good dps now with the DR... don't take it in a bad way OP i fly 7k builds myself just for fun, but i try to have a build that can hit 30k or at least 20k.
4rd isa maybe isnt the best option there, but everybody got used to it and we managed to have a common ground, a standardization, and thats a good thing! changeing it would create more haos...
5rd there was someone that said he had single target good dps but in the end his dps was only a few hundreds. sorry to tell you but your single target dps has to be pretty low as well.
6rd the gap between players from 1k to 160k is huge and the OP is right. it has to be diminished, but not nerfing high end dpsers. there has to be new tutorials, new tooltips for new players. cryptic need to make them understand the game. they standard layout from a new ship is stupid! who the hell was the person from the dev team who thought that putting torps, ba and dbb on a ship is good thing? maybe it is in pvp, but for pve is kind a lame. (maybe someone can show a build with this kind of stuffs in it that can put 30k dps). is great that people want to try new build but cryptic should not suggest this kind of builds as a preset.
7rd cryptic should promote the chat channel in a better way. they are great for new players to learn the depths of the game from interaction with other players more than just a few minutes in a que or on the zone chat where everybody is troller wanna be.
but the biggest problem is the lack of interest shown by cryptic. i mean..come on! a livestream where you show us a new ship that does less than 1k dps? if this is a joke i'm not laughing
ps: can't wait to see the new livestream
10K is fine, still, for all but a couple of specific missions.
I do not usually parse, but it was interesting the group I was in the other night. It had 3 fed no dps tank ships, me, and one of the new fed ships (I think, yall all look alike, ...). Just a basic pugged ICA.
We got to the first gate and one of the low dps guys goes down, someone shoots all the generators (after the cube, thankfully) and the nanites are about 10 feet from healing it when it blows. Close. I suggest we focus fire on the next transformer as a team, and we spend like 5 min clearing all the spheres and head over. Blow the second on in the nick of time, and spend 15 min wrapping up the run but it was a success. Yea, it took longer than it should have, but we did it.
Then someone posted the parse. I won't say which was me -- its not relevant anyway.
2k.
2k.
5k.
10k.
17k.
If everyone had had 10k it would have gone faster and smoother. Everyone with 10k would have been 50k dps team wide. We only had 36/50 and *still won*, nailbiter.
10k is fine dps. If everyone had at least this much, there would be very little moaning and groaning about how hard the game is, how objectives are not completed, etc. No, its NOT much compared to the top players, that is true. But its still more than fine. It would make my day to see everyone in all pugs pulling 10k.
10k is adequate for most content yes, as it has always been.
But in the grand scheme of things, and looking at all of the build enhancements we have been given since DR, 10k is not a "good" dps number nowadays. The point is that it is as easy to push past 20k now, as it was to push 10k a year or so ago.
Just look at the evolution of populations in the 10k and 30k channels. PESTF has already begun to die out because so many people are getting accepted into the 10k channel.
1. People who are playing for fun (1-5K DPS)
This group plays with a setup on how they think items should work.
** Mostly think this is how it worked on TV.
*** People who don't read the forums ever.
**** The true source of STF failures.
2. People who are playing STO the game and using items per game mechanics.
How do you get group # 1 to read the forums or any type of guide.
I saw a suggestion the other day where someone said Cryptic should put a mission in the game that gives you a rank based on your DPS, Healing, and ability to survive.
Then label each queue with a suggested rank level, so people would now if they need a suggested rank of 10 and they got a 1. It just might not be a successful mission for them.
I probably fit into Group Number 1 - I do play it for fun and have just returned to the game after an 18 month absence. That said I do want to improve and do read the forum and am trying to get to grips with what I 'need' to be doing to improve things as opposed to what I 'think' I need to be doing.
I do read the forums and have read this particular thread with great interest and have read some great things in it.
The forums are a great read and provide lots of useful information but sometimes those that are good at the game describe some things in terms that an average player like myself would find difficult to understand.
To go back to the original theme of the post - if someone is capable of creating a build that is 100 times better than mine, I personally do not have a problem with it - perhaps if I had spent the time and effort they obviously have done I could produce a similar build. Each to his own.
LOL and it was met with great disdain and anger. Most people doing awful DPS don't want to improve, or have it referenced in any way, because reasons.
I believe the absolute minimum team DPS for ISA, calculated from the characteristics of the mission, is in fact 35k.
If you're reading the forums and trying to improve, I highly doubt you're going to be in the 1k to 5k range unless something has gone really wrong.
From what I've seen in testing PUGs, the average person is 7-12k. That's "played through the missions" average, with gear/accolades acquired via mission rewards.
Well, if one really want to nitpick, the dps-requirement of ISA is.... very low, 2k maybe (it has to be higher than npc regen) if you have enough CC on board (teamwide maybe^^), because it can only fail if the spheres can heal the transformator.
Same holds true for kasa, csa. Only HSA can fail because of time.
But in the end one has to make an estimation of how long a mission should take, since 2k dps would mean a few hours of playing (2.4min per sphere, not counting regeneration) isa. I think most ppl will agree that any STF (anti borg) shouldnt take longer than 30min in the worst group and not longer than 15min in a normal pug, though then you would most likely carry the whole thing.
The basic assumption about 10k/player is that you will have no problems with that if you have no CC and no one TRIBBLE up.
Most players complain because things are dps-gated or time-fails, though that isnt the case in the most played missions...
But in the end more dps is always better.
Huh, I thought ISA had a non-optional 15 minute timer now?