Exactly. no DPS PvErs use intel stuff or ships. like it's very rare to see it. My DPS ship is scimi, and I don't use beams but DHCs/torp, but then again I can't go much higher then 50k DPS because i didnt try plasma burn exploit yet. And with burn you can do 40k DPS alone from it.
I see few phantoms here and there, few Astikas, but any sane romulan will not use Faeht in PvE when Scimi is available.
PvP problems are not at all related to PvE issues. Ships, skills, gear used are completely unrelated.
I mean, one look at Faeht or Scryer will tell you it has nothing to do with PvE.
SS is meaningless in PvE, with any other tac ability you do 10x better, ionic is like 30% effective in PvE compared to PvP, only OSS is useful, but since OSS is only available on wrong ships then OSS is useless too.
Scimitar became... sort of meaningless in PvP. Unless you're exceptionally skilled, long time user or both they don't endure that much. Scimitars were the favorite targets in PvP because 90% of the people using them was Scimitar-ing wrong. Intel made a whole lot easier to kill everything, and Scimitars keep to be favorite targets. It was hard to pilot back in the days, now it's impossible, unless you slot enough neutroniums and obscure shenigans to make it withstand the intel payloads.
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
appreciated! but though u may understand WHY there's so much hostility from pvp'ers against cryptic (and geko in particular). not have to be dropped here, i'm sure u know what i mean .
so many things promised, so many things not balanced/tested/implemented without tribble-feedback one could recognize in the implementation and no talk about all my outdated ships meeeh ...yaddayaddabambam.... i don't think we need this here and now, true.
(for those interested in, cryptics history with pvp up to 2013. no one botherd to collect more afterwards with good reason imho. only referring to company statements)
if u guys are out for positive feedback i think u just made like a first step and posted in here, no matter the flames! this at least shows for the first part that there are devs reading in here from time to time and that alone is WORTH A LOT.
as on topic: i don't think it could help in the long run to balance everything out (may take the other direction in whole?). but i do think it could be a short time fix until things get balanced out on a more sane level (away from those half-million-k healthbag npc's and uber-% buffs).
but if so, for the short-time-fix, everything in pvp would need a rebalance, as things like crf would become almost worthless in whole. there only would be surgicals all over or never get a kill.
Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
The problem is, in the past the community has provided AMPLE feedback on a variety of subjects. Much of it was either ignored completely, or resulted in something completely different from what the community expected (and not always for the better). Some of your devs even say, they no longer consider the feedback from the forums, in favor of the 'metrics' you gather from us logging in, doing various activities etc
Suffice it to say, what's the point in us providing any feedback whatsoever, when the result has previously been ignored?
Suffice it to say, what's the point in us providing any feedback whatsoever, when the result has previously been ignored?
As much as I'd prefer to see neither, silence would be preferable to personal attacks and flaming.
I admit there are communication failures on our end. But making this sub-community a volatile place to be doesn't encourage Dev attention or even sympathy among fellow players.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
Geko-directed insults are made from a minority of players, don't generalize please.
Increasing player's hitpoints is a BAD move, you should nerf the devastating effects of Surgical and intel disables, they're way out of control. If you came to Ker'rat at least once, you'd see why we're so mad about it. To do some maths, on my Romulan I can get to do 50k RAW critical per Surgical shot. I have four DHCs loaded. Multiply 50k per 4. The resulting multiplied by 3, which is how many times you get to use Surgical during its activation time. Yes, 600k damage. More than six times the average player's hull.
With Rapid Fire you won't even get to one shot people in a firing cycle. Surgical Strikes IS the problem, not the hull. If we throw in Ionic disable (which is just crazy, the immunity lasts for too little) and Viral torpedo (which I beg you to revise: it kicks off disables way too rapidly and they're unresistable) Intel immediately gets like an I win button.
Hopefully it's polite enough, and would be too cool to even have a reply saying "aknowledged", or something like that.
As much as I'd prefer to see neither, silence would be preferable to personal attacks and flaming.
I admit there are communication failures on our end. But making this sub-community a volatile place to be doesn't encourage Dev attention or even sympathy among fellow players.
Look I know there will always be an opinion based gap between devs and players any game you play but take raw numbers of played pvp matches from season 1 to now. See them steadily decrease at all ranks both ground and space? I would assume you guys have some numbers showing pvp matches played. When I joined back in season 2 all ranks of pvp both ground and space were popping majority of the day.
Here my opinion having been around since July 2010 season 2. If you can't come up with a better solution than hp buffs I would say TRIBBLE it and just do it for mere attention to pvp sake. If you think about it things are already horrible so an hp buff won't make it much worse. Tanks already gonna tank anyway.
Also are these hp boost for pvp just for space or ground or both? I am sure you guys have noticed ground firmly in it's grave 100 percent while space simply pops because people want to use what they payed for. Now if you want some honest actual "REASONABLE" help for ground balances I can and will help you. I consider myself an expert at this game's ground mechanics having done easily over 1,000 ground matches lifetime in this game. Of course I am no dev and don't know ish about coding but if you need ideas on number balancing or changes that will help ground pvp without murdering pve I can for sure help you get some done. Mail or pm @etherealplanes in game. I am off work today and should be online for the majority of today.
As much as I'd prefer to see neither, silence would be preferable to personal attacks and flaming.
I admit there are communication failures on our end. But making this sub-community a volatile place to be doesn't encourage Dev attention or even sympathy among fellow players.
to be honest: on a professional base the mood or hostility shouldn't bother u . the feedback given should, no matter in what color it comes. actually, in this sub-forum mostly excellent feedback is given. true, many times not politely. but that's just a sidenote regarding the quality.
to be honest: on a professional base the mood or hostility shouldn't bother u . the feedback given should, no matter in what color it comes. but that's just a sidenote.
another 2 ct's. u guys make me poor ...
Yes anger in the end gets you nowhere well unless you are just trolling. But try to put yourself in our shoes. Majority of us have spent over hundreds of real money dollars in this game over the past few years. Only to get what is turning into a badly sub par product. Now if you go eat out somewhere with a 20 to 30 dollar plate and it is total TRIBBLE beyond edible? You might be pretty angry too. And that's just dinner :P Now take what in reality is a second job for most of us and keep in mind we aren't being paid. Now you see where the hate comes from.
damn guys... u even brought me in line with... him :-D:rolleyes:;)...
last guess by now:
actually it's not on us to turn the tide regarding hostility and over-all mood of this sub-community. it's on u! and better do so by action, not by words. i'm pretty sure as soon there come good things to pvp it will start to change.
i'd even change my avatar back to that dull face of my toon lol.
last time i changed it back to "the eye" was when pvp rewards on wrappers got nerfed. before i sometimes spend the whole day with nothing but pvp. but by then at latest it was pointless, even more as the rewards are already a joke for the time a match takes, no talk about a handful dil for three matches.
somehow picard just visited my room and told me to post this. damn those meds :-D ...
alternatively, with given example of "hen or egg", i've got an answer on that:
the hen is the game, the egg is pvp. the hen keeps gettin fatter and mutates from time to time to the point it lost any interest in raising the egg. probably now is capable of non-sexual self reproducing :-D...
solution? back to the roots. natural raised hen with healthy eggs.
i remember the spirit when s6 came up and bootcamp had its first runs. it was a good spirit overall. lots of feedback was given but sadly nothing happened.
(lil sidenote: starbases for fleets.... a handful of pve q's related... and not a single one to let fleets fight each other on that map? plz start to think with both eyes open anytime u change/implement something new and pvp will flourish, so will the hostility vanish )
hell, i really should stop now or write a book right over lol. i'll take the first :-)...
My only beef is certain individuals having the power to take something that is not malicious in any form and turning it around claiming it is trolling or flaming.
The other side of the coin on pvp is that if anything at all in this game needs a complete and utter total revamp it is pvp. Not to mention if Cryptic were to just do a total revamp of pvp itself there could be progress tracks of each rep you could do with pvp as well as having a pvp team at Cryptic for content purposes where there is ample opportunity for profit off pvp as there is lockboxes and maybe even more than lockboxes bring in.
As far as me personally I don't hate Cryptic or anyone playing or working on STO. Although what I do love about this game is gone which is what STO could have and should have become but will never be unless some dramatic course correction is coming that I don't know about that benefits so many lackluster areas of the game. Not to mention all the icon changes and the boff changes I pretty much cannot recognize a single thing to the point that if I look in forums or website about more changes its just going to become so foreign and unlike star trek that I just completely lose all interest in the game which is sad but the day had to come.
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
Want to fix PvP?
1) Stop releasing broken stuff. Trying to "fix" PvP in this state is like trying to clean a polluted river while still pouring sewage into it.
2) Be prepared to nerf the PvE metagame. Or, in other words, fix all the broken stuff you released. This means addressing every "third rail situation" that you guys introduced so far. It's the only way to truly fix PvP, in my opinion.
Slapping more HP in PvP sounds like a poor workaround, a palliative solution that doesn't address the main concerns at all, and may render the problem worse in some cases.
The fact that you said you are disheartened leads me to think that you guys think you've been making the right choices. I don't think the amount of negativity shown here is a sign of that, at all. Rather than being offended, admit your mistakes, and think of a proper (really) way to fix them. Or just admit that you don't care and stop pretending you do. I'm sorry to be rude here, but I don't see another way of making my point, as Cryptic made me into a disgruntled veteran, and I don't think we need to sugarcoat things at this point. I hope you understand my concerns.
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
Glad that developer finally decided to talk with PvP community in this subforum.
It can surely get toxic here becaues all our requests, bug reports and what not in every subforum just gets ignored month after month.
I'm not PvP player exclusively, i play everything and what is happening in game are some serious balancing issues.
1. Intel and trait stuns, holds, exposes and disables need a clickable CLEAR ability similar to Intel, Science, Tactical and Engineering team for all tiers of ship on Ensign slot.
I have elaborated why on pages before, because of massive resistance debuff stacking and chain stuns, but here is what happens when all the might of debuffs, chain stuns and disables comes down on t5/U ship:
In this videos I'm not using any weapons or consoles in MKXIV, yet we all are able to unleash enormous damage from normal TS3, CRF, TBR, FBP, SS, BO, Isokinetic cannon attacks.
In fact damage and shield bypass is so high that i show a match that from first shot came to 5:2 score in just 20 Secondshere
3. Despite all that higher hull and shields would make just unkillable ships
Proof here
a match versus 4 tanks/drainers+tank FAW cruiser versus 3 high spike+ 2 SCI
where we indeed needed to implement a special strategy to surpass so big shield/hull resistance and cross healing. Basically we needed to divert their attention on wrong target to destroy real target.
I have edited match down to mere minutes, but it lasted almost an hour.
4. Particle generator skills(exotic damage) like TBR, FBP, Isokinetic cannon etc.
need to be balanced so the shield bypass is not that high or it needs to be on RNG Proc chance like weapon procs.
One look at shield ignoring damage possible with Isokinetic cannon and TBR will tell you that no hull can survive that and all shields are meaningless.
in combination with unbeliavable and unclearable resistance and defense debuffs, chain stuns and similar possible with Intel and trait abilities we come to ship melting down in mere seconds by very fast recharging abilities like TBR, FBP, Isokinetic cannon.
So a solution?
1. Intel team needs to clear all intel specific movement and resist debuffs and be available to all ship classes: T5/U, T6 Intel, T6 Command
2. Feedback Pulse needs to scale with PrtG consoles only to max of 1.0-2.0 damage taken, but it would be ideal if FBP could return same amount of damage back to attacker, only difference would be in critical severity and ALL Resist value.
That would enable Feedback Pulse to be valid and not OP counter attack.
Tractor Beam Repulsors need to have way lower shield bypass
.
3. Diminishing Returns on resistance
Needs to be tweaked OR chain Resist debuffs needs to have a unified CLEAR.
Ionic Turbulence, Beta, Delta, Fire on my mark, Sensor Scan, Sensor Analysis, Command Kinetic resist bypass, Intel Expose, Disruptor proic, Elachi Disruptor Proc, Reputation traits Resistance bypass, corrosive plasma etc.
All those need several different clears which are not available on all ships, and some resist and movement(defense) debuffs can't be cleared at all.
There is plenty more, but IMO First step for fixing PvP would be to implement matchmaking system and leaderboards. That would prevent grief that is caused by teaming low level or unexperienced players with veterans.
Plenty of starting data can be taken form Hilbert Leaderboard.
I didn't mention Neutronic torpedo on Torpedo spread 3 because it's getting nerfed, but you also need to look at Neutronic High Yield which is doing way LOWER effective damage then any other HY torpedo.
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
Prior to monday, the reason for the continual attacks on Geko were because he had painted himself as in direct opposition to this community, actively gone out of his way to insult and denigrate this community in interviews, and generally demonstrated that he doesn't have the first idea what he's talking about when it comes to actual PVP issues.
So consider your own words: The hostility and pointless animosity from Geko are not winning you guys any favours EITHER.
On Monday when the new interview went live, things changed, because it became apparent that while Geko was still out of touch with PVP issues as ever, perhaps due to your positively minuscule QA team (Seriously you might want to talk to Frost he's been grumbling about it for a while), that his gross generalization and insults were more than likely to have resulted from a profound disconnect with having gone anywhere near PVP at all. Because the sort of comments he made were actually those of a pretty reasonable individual, and if he implements the fixes to the issues that were brought up, PVP would actually improve immensely.
But that he didn't know at all... is that a communications failure? Clearly. Is it QA's fault?
No... actually, it's almost certainly your fault, Borticus.
See, we had threads and threads and threads on the issue in question- Ionic Turbulence. We ambushed devs whenever we could, poked them in game, talked to customer support- we did everything possible short of showing up at your office...
And when we finally, finally got Frost's attention in a bug report thread...
He was actually pretty reasonable. He saw that it was an issue, that we had grave concerns, and he escalated up the chain to find out if the power was working as intended. He escalated it to you.
And it was YOU who said that this power is working as intended.
It was YOU who confirmed: This power is intended to chain disable with no lockout period.
It was YOU who confirmed: This power is meant to stack with all the other intel disables.
It was YOU who confirmed: This power is meant to ignore all resistances and immunities.
So we took that as the party line. That you guys have decided, intentionally, that this power is meant to circumvent all the other resistances, immunities, and standards you guys formerly kept for powers like lockouts and immunities and not infinitely stacking/chaining.
So imagine our utter surprise and shock that Al should comment in a live interview that "That doesn't sound right. It shouldn't chain infinitely. It shouldn't be stacking, it- and ANY DISABLE should apply a lockout period."
And we didn't know what to think anymore, because these are the words of a reasonable man, and not the words of someone who has gone out of his way to antagonize the PVP community, to denigrate and insult them. They are, however, the words of someone who has utterly no exposure to PVP.
So on the one hand, maybe he's not the villain he's painted himself to be, but on the other hand, we know for a fact that he remains as ignorant about these issues as ever- though at least it seems like he's sympathetic to our concerns.
Which then throws everything back, because- yes- you had previously confirmed all our worst fears, and given the impression, however accidentally, that this was a formal decision by the development team that this power should behave in this way.
And Geko, of all people, tells us that it isn't so? But moreover indicates that he's never even heard of these issues we escalated up the chain to talk about?
I agree absolutely the insults against him need to stop, primarily because this new information demonstrates that he isn't deliberately and maliciously trying to ruin PVP because of an utter disrespect for players involved- but rather that he is completely oblivious to it and its issues.
There will always be people that jump the bandwagon, but you can't really avoid that. Instead look at all the people arguing and discussing this stuff rationally. And maybe, just maybe, you could take some time to look at those issues you'd previously confirmed as working as intended and maybe there was a communications failure there, or you just didn't understand the question.
Because much like there were issues with Torpedo Spread's initial revamp (remember how it had one crit chance and made all the damage crit?), there are issues with Surgical Strikes. Player health isn't the problem, to echo the other posters, Surgical Strikes is the problem.
The internet is not the best communications media for a number of reasons, but the most relevant one here is that you cannot corner someone on a point. You cannot make sure they understand it and confront them- because they can just walk away from the keyboard.
And I'm beginning to realize that this sort of confrontation is, unfortunately, needed if we ever expect to get any sort of proper dialogue open with you guys, because there continues to be demonstration on your part that you are not comprehending what we are saying, or you are taking a different meaning from comments, bug reports, requests- whatever, and that this is harming any present or future interaction you have with this community and any actions you take to attempt to better PVP itself.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
I'm sorry but this comment is needless passive aggressive whining. That's not to say I don't totally understand where you're coming from for it, I do, but you're basically using the attitudes of a few to say "I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG" with regards to not interacting with this community. Except the reason it has become so toxic is because of the lack of interaction- and beyond that, the misinterpretation or dismissal of issues.
There have been lots of times when you guys have communicated openly, and we do really appreciate that effort. We just wish it'd happen more, and you guys would actually stick around to make sure you understand what an issue is, rather than just skimming and taking away the wrong message.
You could also really do us a solid if you hired Virusdancer for QA. Or anyone for QA. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people who would work FOR FREE for QA, because we recognize how few resources you have for that department, and how it desperately needs more people working for it- and change has to start somewhere. Over the years we have tried everything. You name it, we've tried it. And none of it has ever worked.
So for a lot of us, who have been here over the years, we're at the point where we really just don't care what we try anymore. Sure our hope gets up when a Dev mentions that a power we've long reported as being broken, overpowered, or just plain badly designed... should be fixed... but at the same time it saddens us because it demonstrates that you guys don't have the first spark of what might become a clue at what these issues we have so tirelessly, endlessly, and continually reported are.
We used to blame QA for the communications issues, but it's become apparent over the years that the blame for that lies not with the people who work in QA. They're doing the best they can in bad conditions. The blame doesn't really lie with any single person, but rather with whatever policy suggests that you should have a team that small for a game this large.
And I remember when the QA team was bigger, when Gozer ran closed beta testing of new content with player volunteers. For all my disagreements with the guy, he had his head on straight and basically doubled your testing team with no real increase in monetary expenditure.
I can think of a good dozen people who would be well suited to volunteering for QA positions, who would be absolutely chuffed to work with you guys to solve issues, prevent bugs, and make sure stuff is actually tested and working as conceived rather than... not.
But ultimately anything we do has a problem- the reason why the internet is not the best medium for communication: You can just get up and walk away from the keyboard.
So we make suggestions, we discuss and debate and report, always endlessly, tirelessly report- and you guys aren't even around. Or you post in a thread asking that we try and help you, and there's this overwhelming reply that is neutral or positive- and you never even look at these words again.
Change needs to happen, absolutely. But it's not something we as a community can make happen. It's something that only you, as the development team, can initiate.
Getting the pvpers to adapt would fix all problems. :cool:
he again.. with that again :rolleyes:.... get it dude: pvp'ers adapted since there ever was adaption, they kind of invented that word in here. but we reached a point where adaption is impossible!
get it or not, but plz stop claiming the same unbased bs on and on, just anywhere u spot a single post that could(!) be pro-pvp.
have a nice day.... or not :P...
or just plz tell all of us: how do U adapt? let me guess... u're not into pvp lulz. if so just troll home :P
and if just meant sarcastic may at least label it once as such...
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
You and Geko manage to destroy PVP, both ground and space, so be happy about it. You destroyed the PVP of a Star Trek game, yes, you.. if is true that you are a trekker, how do you sleep with that?
wow... 2 devs posts in the pew-forum and shortly after there are tons of posts with good feedback and if only between the lines.
not the usual "yay or nay" one can find in most other subforums, but some very long and detailed posts about what went wrong and what could be done better.
that's why i love this community, even the a**heads *quickly drops mirror* ...
and kinda most interesting: beameddowns' post is not the longest one .. no offence dude .
Seriously, if you guys want to open a dialog with the devs, for start lay of with name calling.
Rather list real game issues you have, because devs have not so much experience with PvP issues as we all combined.
I have listed some, why not add, correct, let's be constructive for a change.
And yeah thx beammedown, i tried to make a concise list of most important things IMO.
Seriously, if you guys want to open a dialog with the devs, for start lay of with name calling.
Rather list real game issues you have, because devs have not so much experience with PvP issues as we all combined.
I have listed some, why not add, correct, let's be constructive for a change.
And yeah thx beammedown, i tried to make a concise list of most important things IMO.
true! i'm not that one for details, fundamentals are more my thing ... and i'm that lazy tha t all i will do by now is to point on threads i did collect very good feedback from many and much more clever people than me, who pointed on the issues and possible solutions on certain powers. one only have to dig through the usual forum-barlast (in some i gathered the suggestions in the op for simplicity):
1) The personal attacks against Geko, the hostility and pointless animosity, are not winning you guys any favors.
making pvp unplayable did away with any good will that might have been left around here. i don't play this game anymore, i can't, because it would cost me ~$100 per character to upgrade gear to mk 14 if i even want to think about trying to pvp ever again. and after that, the specialization grind, one more tedious and larger then all other grinds in the game combined.
how could i feel anything but contempt for the people that took the game i enjoyed away from me, and replaced it with one that has this kind of pay and grind wall? i got the delta pack because i didn't think that in a single server maintenance, the price of entry and required grind would square itself. i was hoping for more of the same level of grind and cost associated with every other season and the last expansion, thats certainly NOT what i got.
and even if i slid the card and ground patrols until i bleed from every TRIBBLE, there still wouldn't be pvp worth playing left at the end of all that. that last part can pretty much be blamed entirely on you, who claim the be behind all the specializations and rep items and intel powers.
how can we be anything but toxic in response. any other reaction wouldn't make any sense.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
great, i'ts a nice thought, hell any thoughts you guys have on pvp are appreciated, but if you wanted to slap a global modifier on a match i can think of at least 1 that would get better results all around.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
you have been a stranger here in the pvp section for more then 6 months, work with you how exactly? we hear about this hp modifier off hand in a pod cast, you find out KDF don't even show up on the scoreboard anymore in january during the tribble podcast when the host mentions it, a problem anyone who pvp'ed once since DR launched could instantly see, does literally no one over there pvp? ionic turbulence is a hub disable, you cant use any skills wile stunned, and its more likely to chain stun you for 20 seconds then not, and thats all working as intended! it wasn't that long ago that the elachi lockbox introduced that subspace console that disabled the hud the same way, not long after the hud stun was removed because it was PVP BREAKING. what happened to those lessens learned, huh? how, literally how can you be surprised by the mood around here?
As much as I'd prefer to see neither, silence would be preferable to personal attacks and flaming.
I admit there are communication failures on our end. But making this sub-community a volatile place to be doesn't encourage Dev attention or even sympathy among fellow players.
we would LOOOOOOOVE to work with you guys, but how can we? you wont let us. we are ignored and watch helplessly as the fragile pvp meta is utterly ruined by new additions that recklessly overpower or override all the checks and balances in the system that have allowed pvp to work at all.
i see art devs working with costume threads, foundry devs working with foundry threads, thats what cooperation looks like. we get deafening silence, so we get louder and angrier until we get scolded. we have learned thats the most we can expect, its why so few are left.
It would be very unprofessional if he didn't come back here.
We have tried to raise PvP problem in other subforums and no devs responded.
In my eyes, this is a step forward.
In other games, I wouldn't even bother righting on forums if I think something is wrong.
But i can't help it here, STO PvP has so much potential, art design artists have done great work lately since LoR and especially since Dyson and Delta.
Ground and Space PvP could thrive.
Maps like Azure Nebula for Space, Kobali prime, Rhlhho Station, Defera, Dyson, Andoria etc, for open spaces ground combat would be GREAT.
At this point, tweaking HP/shield stat in PvP would be counterproductive, that is not what is problem with PvP.
It needs some work, but i guess not much since they can refresh maps from existing great maps from episodes.
They could make leaderboards based on stats with starting work already done for them by Hilbert Leaderboard.
And finally balance skills like done in Undine and Dyson Reputation Weapons.
X Beam does 1000 dmg on everything and Double vs Voth/Undine for example.
Such mod could be made for PvP.
Of course there will be bugs, no game is without bugs, but you need to start somewhere.
They have lost so many players already, and ones still here are near end of the patience.
GOOD Communication with your playerbase in such games as this is very important.
Comments
Scimitar became... sort of meaningless in PvP. Unless you're exceptionally skilled, long time user or both they don't endure that much. Scimitars were the favorite targets in PvP because 90% of the people using them was Scimitar-ing wrong. Intel made a whole lot easier to kill everything, and Scimitars keep to be favorite targets. It was hard to pilot back in the days, now it's impossible, unless you slot enough neutroniums and obscure shenigans to make it withstand the intel payloads.
2) This idea was actually mine, which I pitched to Geko several months ago.
3) It was not intended as a 'solution' to anything, but merely as an experiment - to see what effect, positive or negative, it would have on the overall atmosphere of PvP matches.
4) We haven't made the change yet because we wanted ample time to test it, either on Tribble or in a special Test Queue. We are not interested in making an experimental change become a sweeping part of the game as a whole, without having a solid understanding of the effects it has.
I'm glad the subject was raised here, but deeply disheartened by the reaction you've all had to it. Maybe try to work WITH us a little when we attempt to do anything with PvP, instead of instantly jumping on the hate-wagon? It might make us more inclined to continue examining the issue, if the community of players involved seemed appreciative of those efforts.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
appreciated! but though u may understand WHY there's so much hostility from pvp'ers against cryptic (and geko in particular). not have to be dropped here, i'm sure u know what i mean
so many things promised, so many things not balanced/tested/implemented without tribble-feedback one could recognize in the implementation and no talk about all my outdated ships meeeh
(for those interested in, cryptics history with pvp up to 2013. no one botherd to collect more afterwards with good reason imho. only referring to company statements)
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=233254
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=826171
if u guys are out for positive feedback i think u just made like a first step and posted in here, no matter the flames! this at least shows for the first part that there are devs reading in here from time to time and that alone is WORTH A LOT.
as on topic: i don't think it could help in the long run to balance everything out (may take the other direction in whole?). but i do think it could be a short time fix until things get balanced out on a more sane level (away from those half-million-k healthbag npc's and uber-% buffs).
but if so, for the short-time-fix, everything in pvp would need a rebalance, as things like crf would become almost worthless in whole. there only would be surgicals all over or never get a kill.
just 2 ct's
The problem is, in the past the community has provided AMPLE feedback on a variety of subjects. Much of it was either ignored completely, or resulted in something completely different from what the community expected (and not always for the better). Some of your devs even say, they no longer consider the feedback from the forums, in favor of the 'metrics' you gather from us logging in, doing various activities etc
Suffice it to say, what's the point in us providing any feedback whatsoever, when the result has previously been ignored?
As much as I'd prefer to see neither, silence would be preferable to personal attacks and flaming.
I admit there are communication failures on our end. But making this sub-community a volatile place to be doesn't encourage Dev attention or even sympathy among fellow players.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Geko-directed insults are made from a minority of players, don't generalize please.
Increasing player's hitpoints is a BAD move, you should nerf the devastating effects of Surgical and intel disables, they're way out of control. If you came to Ker'rat at least once, you'd see why we're so mad about it. To do some maths, on my Romulan I can get to do 50k RAW critical per Surgical shot. I have four DHCs loaded. Multiply 50k per 4. The resulting multiplied by 3, which is how many times you get to use Surgical during its activation time. Yes, 600k damage. More than six times the average player's hull.
With Rapid Fire you won't even get to one shot people in a firing cycle. Surgical Strikes IS the problem, not the hull. If we throw in Ionic disable (which is just crazy, the immunity lasts for too little) and Viral torpedo (which I beg you to revise: it kicks off disables way too rapidly and they're unresistable) Intel immediately gets like an I win button.
Hopefully it's polite enough, and would be too cool to even have a reply saying "aknowledged", or something like that.
Look I know there will always be an opinion based gap between devs and players any game you play but take raw numbers of played pvp matches from season 1 to now. See them steadily decrease at all ranks both ground and space? I would assume you guys have some numbers showing pvp matches played. When I joined back in season 2 all ranks of pvp both ground and space were popping majority of the day.
Here my opinion having been around since July 2010 season 2. If you can't come up with a better solution than hp buffs I would say TRIBBLE it and just do it for mere attention to pvp sake. If you think about it things are already horrible so an hp buff won't make it much worse. Tanks already gonna tank anyway.
Also are these hp boost for pvp just for space or ground or both? I am sure you guys have noticed ground firmly in it's grave 100 percent while space simply pops because people want to use what they payed for. Now if you want some honest actual "REASONABLE" help for ground balances I can and will help you. I consider myself an expert at this game's ground mechanics having done easily over 1,000 ground matches lifetime in this game. Of course I am no dev and don't know ish about coding but if you need ideas on number balancing or changes that will help ground pvp without murdering pve I can for sure help you get some done. Mail or pm @etherealplanes in game. I am off work today and should be online for the majority of today.
to be honest: on a professional base the mood or hostility shouldn't bother u
another 2 ct's. u guys make me poor
A minority who need to get banned from posting if only to teach them some gods damned manners.
Yes anger in the end gets you nowhere well unless you are just trolling. But try to put yourself in our shoes. Majority of us have spent over hundreds of real money dollars in this game over the past few years. Only to get what is turning into a badly sub par product. Now if you go eat out somewhere with a 20 to 30 dollar plate and it is total TRIBBLE beyond edible? You might be pretty angry too. And that's just dinner :P Now take what in reality is a second job for most of us and keep in mind we aren't being paid. Now you see where the hate comes from.
last guess by now:
actually it's not on us to turn the tide regarding hostility and over-all mood of this sub-community. it's on u! and better do so by action, not by words. i'm pretty sure as soon there come good things to pvp it will start to change.
i'd even change my avatar back to that dull face of my toon lol.
last time i changed it back to "the eye" was when pvp rewards on wrappers got nerfed. before i sometimes spend the whole day with nothing but pvp. but by then at latest it was pointless, even more as the rewards are already a joke for the time a match takes, no talk about a handful dil for three matches.
somehow picard just visited my room and told me to post this. damn those meds :-D
in other words, from a post i did make like one year ago:
i remember the spirit when s6 came up and bootcamp had its first runs. it was a good spirit overall. lots of feedback was given but sadly nothing happened.
(lil sidenote: starbases for fleets.... a handful of pve q's related... and not a single one to let fleets fight each other on that map? plz start to think with both eyes open anytime u change/implement something new and pvp will flourish, so will the hostility vanish
hell, i really should stop now or write a book right over lol. i'll take the first :-)...
The other side of the coin on pvp is that if anything at all in this game needs a complete and utter total revamp it is pvp. Not to mention if Cryptic were to just do a total revamp of pvp itself there could be progress tracks of each rep you could do with pvp as well as having a pvp team at Cryptic for content purposes where there is ample opportunity for profit off pvp as there is lockboxes and maybe even more than lockboxes bring in.
As far as me personally I don't hate Cryptic or anyone playing or working on STO. Although what I do love about this game is gone which is what STO could have and should have become but will never be unless some dramatic course correction is coming that I don't know about that benefits so many lackluster areas of the game. Not to mention all the icon changes and the boff changes I pretty much cannot recognize a single thing to the point that if I look in forums or website about more changes its just going to become so foreign and unlike star trek that I just completely lose all interest in the game which is sad but the day had to come.
Want to fix PvP?
1) Stop releasing broken stuff. Trying to "fix" PvP in this state is like trying to clean a polluted river while still pouring sewage into it.
2) Be prepared to nerf the PvE metagame. Or, in other words, fix all the broken stuff you released. This means addressing every "third rail situation" that you guys introduced so far. It's the only way to truly fix PvP, in my opinion.
Slapping more HP in PvP sounds like a poor workaround, a palliative solution that doesn't address the main concerns at all, and may render the problem worse in some cases.
The fact that you said you are disheartened leads me to think that you guys think you've been making the right choices. I don't think the amount of negativity shown here is a sign of that, at all. Rather than being offended, admit your mistakes, and think of a proper (really) way to fix them. Or just admit that you don't care and stop pretending you do. I'm sorry to be rude here, but I don't see another way of making my point, as Cryptic made me into a disgruntled veteran, and I don't think we need to sugarcoat things at this point. I hope you understand my concerns.
STO Screenshot Archive
Glad that developer finally decided to talk with PvP community in this subforum.
It can surely get toxic here becaues all our requests, bug reports and what not in every subforum just gets ignored month after month.
I'm not PvP player exclusively, i play everything and what is happening in game are some serious balancing issues.
1. Intel and trait stuns, holds, exposes and disables need a clickable CLEAR ability similar to Intel, Science, Tactical and Engineering team for all tiers of ship on Ensign slot.
I have elaborated why on pages before, because of massive resistance debuff stacking and chain stuns, but here is what happens when all the might of debuffs, chain stuns and disables comes down on t5/U ship:
http://youtu.be/akBp0ji8dKc?t=3m36s
Please take a very close look at what's happening
2. Damage is high
I understand it's natural after so big upgrade from MkXII to MkXIV Epic
BUT look at here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NtDznbRz5w
and here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cophl2FNzCg
In this videos I'm not using any weapons or consoles in MKXIV, yet we all are able to unleash enormous damage from normal TS3, CRF, TBR, FBP, SS, BO, Isokinetic cannon attacks.
In fact damage and shield bypass is so high that i show a match that from first shot came to 5:2 score in just 20 Seconds here
3. Despite all that higher hull and shields would make just unkillable ships
Proof here
a match versus 4 tanks/drainers+tank FAW cruiser versus 3 high spike+ 2 SCI
where we indeed needed to implement a special strategy to surpass so big shield/hull resistance and cross healing. Basically we needed to divert their attention on wrong target to destroy real target.
I have edited match down to mere minutes, but it lasted almost an hour.
4. Particle generator skills(exotic damage) like TBR, FBP, Isokinetic cannon etc.
need to be balanced so the shield bypass is not that high or it needs to be on RNG Proc chance like weapon procs.
One look at shield ignoring damage possible with Isokinetic cannon and TBR will tell you that no hull can survive that and all shields are meaningless.
in combination with unbeliavable and unclearable resistance and defense debuffs, chain stuns and similar possible with Intel and trait abilities we come to ship melting down in mere seconds by very fast recharging abilities like TBR, FBP, Isokinetic cannon.
So a solution?
1. Intel team needs to clear all intel specific movement and resist debuffs and be available to all ship classes: T5/U, T6 Intel, T6 Command
2. Feedback Pulse needs to scale with PrtG consoles only to max of 1.0-2.0 damage taken, but it would be ideal if FBP could return same amount of damage back to attacker, only difference would be in critical severity and ALL Resist value.
That would enable Feedback Pulse to be valid and not OP counter attack.
Tractor Beam Repulsors need to have way lower shield bypass
.
3. Diminishing Returns on resistance
Needs to be tweaked OR chain Resist debuffs needs to have a unified CLEAR.
Ionic Turbulence, Beta, Delta, Fire on my mark, Sensor Scan, Sensor Analysis, Command Kinetic resist bypass, Intel Expose, Disruptor proic, Elachi Disruptor Proc, Reputation traits Resistance bypass, corrosive plasma etc.
All those need several different clears which are not available on all ships, and some resist and movement(defense) debuffs can't be cleared at all.
There is plenty more, but IMO First step for fixing PvP would be to implement matchmaking system and leaderboards. That would prevent grief that is caused by teaming low level or unexperienced players with veterans.
Plenty of starting data can be taken form Hilbert Leaderboard.
I didn't mention Neutronic torpedo on Torpedo spread 3 because it's getting nerfed, but you also need to look at Neutronic High Yield which is doing way LOWER effective damage then any other HY torpedo.
Thanx for reading, hope to see any improvement
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Prior to monday, the reason for the continual attacks on Geko were because he had painted himself as in direct opposition to this community, actively gone out of his way to insult and denigrate this community in interviews, and generally demonstrated that he doesn't have the first idea what he's talking about when it comes to actual PVP issues.
So consider your own words: The hostility and pointless animosity from Geko are not winning you guys any favours EITHER.
On Monday when the new interview went live, things changed, because it became apparent that while Geko was still out of touch with PVP issues as ever, perhaps due to your positively minuscule QA team (Seriously you might want to talk to Frost he's been grumbling about it for a while), that his gross generalization and insults were more than likely to have resulted from a profound disconnect with having gone anywhere near PVP at all. Because the sort of comments he made were actually those of a pretty reasonable individual, and if he implements the fixes to the issues that were brought up, PVP would actually improve immensely.
But that he didn't know at all... is that a communications failure? Clearly. Is it QA's fault?
No... actually, it's almost certainly your fault, Borticus.
See, we had threads and threads and threads on the issue in question- Ionic Turbulence. We ambushed devs whenever we could, poked them in game, talked to customer support- we did everything possible short of showing up at your office...
And when we finally, finally got Frost's attention in a bug report thread...
He was actually pretty reasonable. He saw that it was an issue, that we had grave concerns, and he escalated up the chain to find out if the power was working as intended. He escalated it to you.
And it was YOU who said that this power is working as intended.
It was YOU who confirmed: This power is intended to chain disable with no lockout period.
It was YOU who confirmed: This power is meant to stack with all the other intel disables.
It was YOU who confirmed: This power is meant to ignore all resistances and immunities.
So we took that as the party line. That you guys have decided, intentionally, that this power is meant to circumvent all the other resistances, immunities, and standards you guys formerly kept for powers like lockouts and immunities and not infinitely stacking/chaining.
So imagine our utter surprise and shock that Al should comment in a live interview that "That doesn't sound right. It shouldn't chain infinitely. It shouldn't be stacking, it- and ANY DISABLE should apply a lockout period."
And we didn't know what to think anymore, because these are the words of a reasonable man, and not the words of someone who has gone out of his way to antagonize the PVP community, to denigrate and insult them. They are, however, the words of someone who has utterly no exposure to PVP.
So on the one hand, maybe he's not the villain he's painted himself to be, but on the other hand, we know for a fact that he remains as ignorant about these issues as ever- though at least it seems like he's sympathetic to our concerns.
Which then throws everything back, because- yes- you had previously confirmed all our worst fears, and given the impression, however accidentally, that this was a formal decision by the development team that this power should behave in this way.
And Geko, of all people, tells us that it isn't so? But moreover indicates that he's never even heard of these issues we escalated up the chain to talk about?
I agree absolutely the insults against him need to stop, primarily because this new information demonstrates that he isn't deliberately and maliciously trying to ruin PVP because of an utter disrespect for players involved- but rather that he is completely oblivious to it and its issues.
There will always be people that jump the bandwagon, but you can't really avoid that. Instead look at all the people arguing and discussing this stuff rationally. And maybe, just maybe, you could take some time to look at those issues you'd previously confirmed as working as intended and maybe there was a communications failure there, or you just didn't understand the question.
Because much like there were issues with Torpedo Spread's initial revamp (remember how it had one crit chance and made all the damage crit?), there are issues with Surgical Strikes. Player health isn't the problem, to echo the other posters, Surgical Strikes is the problem.
The internet is not the best communications media for a number of reasons, but the most relevant one here is that you cannot corner someone on a point. You cannot make sure they understand it and confront them- because they can just walk away from the keyboard.
And I'm beginning to realize that this sort of confrontation is, unfortunately, needed if we ever expect to get any sort of proper dialogue open with you guys, because there continues to be demonstration on your part that you are not comprehending what we are saying, or you are taking a different meaning from comments, bug reports, requests- whatever, and that this is harming any present or future interaction you have with this community and any actions you take to attempt to better PVP itself.
I'm sorry but this comment is needless passive aggressive whining. That's not to say I don't totally understand where you're coming from for it, I do, but you're basically using the attitudes of a few to say "I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG" with regards to not interacting with this community. Except the reason it has become so toxic is because of the lack of interaction- and beyond that, the misinterpretation or dismissal of issues.
There have been lots of times when you guys have communicated openly, and we do really appreciate that effort. We just wish it'd happen more, and you guys would actually stick around to make sure you understand what an issue is, rather than just skimming and taking away the wrong message.
You could also really do us a solid if you hired Virusdancer for QA. Or anyone for QA. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people who would work FOR FREE for QA, because we recognize how few resources you have for that department, and how it desperately needs more people working for it- and change has to start somewhere. Over the years we have tried everything. You name it, we've tried it. And none of it has ever worked.
So for a lot of us, who have been here over the years, we're at the point where we really just don't care what we try anymore. Sure our hope gets up when a Dev mentions that a power we've long reported as being broken, overpowered, or just plain badly designed... should be fixed... but at the same time it saddens us because it demonstrates that you guys don't have the first spark of what might become a clue at what these issues we have so tirelessly, endlessly, and continually reported are.
We used to blame QA for the communications issues, but it's become apparent over the years that the blame for that lies not with the people who work in QA. They're doing the best they can in bad conditions. The blame doesn't really lie with any single person, but rather with whatever policy suggests that you should have a team that small for a game this large.
And I remember when the QA team was bigger, when Gozer ran closed beta testing of new content with player volunteers. For all my disagreements with the guy, he had his head on straight and basically doubled your testing team with no real increase in monetary expenditure.
I can think of a good dozen people who would be well suited to volunteering for QA positions, who would be absolutely chuffed to work with you guys to solve issues, prevent bugs, and make sure stuff is actually tested and working as conceived rather than... not.
But ultimately anything we do has a problem- the reason why the internet is not the best medium for communication: You can just get up and walk away from the keyboard.
So we make suggestions, we discuss and debate and report, always endlessly, tirelessly report- and you guys aren't even around. Or you post in a thread asking that we try and help you, and there's this overwhelming reply that is neutral or positive- and you never even look at these words again.
Change needs to happen, absolutely. But it's not something we as a community can make happen. It's something that only you, as the development team, can initiate.
he again.. with that again :rolleyes:.... get it dude: pvp'ers adapted since there ever was adaption, they kind of invented that word in here. but we reached a point where adaption is impossible!
get it or not, but plz stop claiming the same unbased bs on and on, just anywhere u spot a single post that could(!) be pro-pvp.
have a nice day.... or not :P...
or just plz tell all of us: how do U adapt? let me guess... u're not into pvp lulz. if so just troll home :P
and if just meant sarcastic may at least label it once as such...
You and Geko manage to destroy PVP, both ground and space, so be happy about it. You destroyed the PVP of a Star Trek game, yes, you.. if is true that you are a trekker, how do you sleep with that?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And I bet that was never his idea, he just drop that bomb and went back to make new broken stuff, that is what he do best.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
not the usual "yay or nay" one can find in most other subforums, but some very long and detailed posts about what went wrong and what could be done better.
that's why i love this community, even the a**heads *quickly drops mirror*
and kinda most interesting: beameddowns' post is not the longest one
Rather list real game issues you have, because devs have not so much experience with PvP issues as we all combined.
I have listed some, why not add, correct, let's be constructive for a change.
And yeah thx beammedown, i tried to make a concise list of most important things IMO.
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true! i'm not that one for details, fundamentals are more my thing
Ionic Turbulence, diasable and PvP implications
Ionic Turbulence bugged?
ionic debuff persists after respawn=wai?!
give us a synergies table
fix for a2b wanted
Cryptic, Metrics and PvP
Please fix the queues
and now.... what about proton resist?
playernumbers and classes in pvp maps
Fleet Marks "only" for PvP dailies
DOME OF DOOM for pvp matches
i think these are the most valuable ones, some of them very old. but i think there still should be something adaptable even in those.
making pvp unplayable did away with any good will that might have been left around here. i don't play this game anymore, i can't, because it would cost me ~$100 per character to upgrade gear to mk 14 if i even want to think about trying to pvp ever again. and after that, the specialization grind, one more tedious and larger then all other grinds in the game combined.
how could i feel anything but contempt for the people that took the game i enjoyed away from me, and replaced it with one that has this kind of pay and grind wall? i got the delta pack because i didn't think that in a single server maintenance, the price of entry and required grind would square itself. i was hoping for more of the same level of grind and cost associated with every other season and the last expansion, thats certainly NOT what i got.
and even if i slid the card and ground patrols until i bleed from every TRIBBLE, there still wouldn't be pvp worth playing left at the end of all that. that last part can pretty much be blamed entirely on you, who claim the be behind all the specializations and rep items and intel powers.
how can we be anything but toxic in response. any other reaction wouldn't make any sense.
great, i'ts a nice thought, hell any thoughts you guys have on pvp are appreciated, but if you wanted to slap a global modifier on a match i can think of at least 1 that would get better results all around.
you have been a stranger here in the pvp section for more then 6 months, work with you how exactly? we hear about this hp modifier off hand in a pod cast, you find out KDF don't even show up on the scoreboard anymore in january during the tribble podcast when the host mentions it, a problem anyone who pvp'ed once since DR launched could instantly see, does literally no one over there pvp? ionic turbulence is a hub disable, you cant use any skills wile stunned, and its more likely to chain stun you for 20 seconds then not, and thats all working as intended! it wasn't that long ago that the elachi lockbox introduced that subspace console that disabled the hud the same way, not long after the hud stun was removed because it was PVP BREAKING. what happened to those lessens learned, huh? how, literally how can you be surprised by the mood around here?
we would LOOOOOOOVE to work with you guys, but how can we? you wont let us. we are ignored and watch helplessly as the fragile pvp meta is utterly ruined by new additions that recklessly overpower or override all the checks and balances in the system that have allowed pvp to work at all.
i see art devs working with costume threads, foundry devs working with foundry threads, thats what cooperation looks like. we get deafening silence, so we get louder and angrier until we get scolded. we have learned thats the most we can expect, its why so few are left.
We have tried to raise PvP problem in other subforums and no devs responded.
In my eyes, this is a step forward.
In other games, I wouldn't even bother righting on forums if I think something is wrong.
But i can't help it here, STO PvP has so much potential, art design artists have done great work lately since LoR and especially since Dyson and Delta.
Ground and Space PvP could thrive.
Maps like Azure Nebula for Space, Kobali prime, Rhlhho Station, Defera, Dyson, Andoria etc, for open spaces ground combat would be GREAT.
At this point, tweaking HP/shield stat in PvP would be counterproductive, that is not what is problem with PvP.
It needs some work, but i guess not much since they can refresh maps from existing great maps from episodes.
They could make leaderboards based on stats with starting work already done for them by Hilbert Leaderboard.
And finally balance skills like done in Undine and Dyson Reputation Weapons.
X Beam does 1000 dmg on everything and Double vs Voth/Undine for example.
Such mod could be made for PvP.
Of course there will be bugs, no game is without bugs, but you need to start somewhere.
They have lost so many players already, and ones still here are near end of the patience.
GOOD Communication with your playerbase in such games as this is very important.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers