It's important to remember that one of the points of Starfleet and the Federation is the idea of "Strength of Many." A Starfleet vessel isn't using just Human technology, it's the result of pooling the technology and science of all the member worlds, including areas that other species hadn't thought of or stumbled upon.
While it's not "canon" (merely awesome), in Prelude to Axanar it's mentioned that on the Ares-class it's the combination of ten worlds working together and contributing to the project. While the Humans weren't all that advanced, the Vulcans chipped in with propulsion, shields, environmental systems, better sensors, while the Andorians brought their phasers and weapons technology to the table, so on. That's kind of how I imagine Starfleet working: a Starfleet ship is the product of the combined technological research of the 200 member worlds of the Federation, and on top of that, the new ideas they come up with when you have different species working together coming up with stuff they'd have never thought of on their own.
My headcanon, incidentally, is that the Star Cruisers in STO came out of a Vulcan design house or their main designers and project leads during their development were Vulcan or heavily influenced by Vulcan design practices. Their whole look is reminiscent of the curves of Vulcan craft.
I always look at this in such way: Starfleet is Federal unit protecting Federation as a whole, and local military forces after joining Federation become security/police forces keeping peace and order in systems inhabited by specific race/country.
That's kind of how I see it. The Andorian Imperial Guard, for instance, is more like... the analogy I'd make is to the National Guard or State Troopers in the US. They deal with local security and defense, while Starfleet is more like the Navy and FBI in that they deal with stuff between the member worlds and colonies. Starfleet/The Federation gets involved if it's too big for the locals to handle or they ask for help.
A Vulcan Science Command Cruiser would be pretty cool and would fit with the idea that Vulcans are support ships rather than warships. The Tellarte ship could be an escort. As for a new Andorian ship it could be a new battlcruiser or for a really out there idea a carrier with frigate support.
I agree with you, Garino. The current idea of Cryptic, to give us ENEMY ships is a backwards idea. I have always thought so too.
It would make much more sense to come out with the ships of EACH FACTION's ALLIES!!
Great idea Garino. I'm glad you brought this up.
And it's not like we are running out of ships to use...for Vulcans alone we have the T'Plana-Hath (First contact ship), the T'Pau/Apollo class, the Suurok Class, and the Vulcan fighter.
The Bajorans would also be a great source of 'allied' ships for the federation. They have the Antares class, and the unnamed warship and transport ships classes that could work as capital ships, and two different types of fighter.
On the KDF side, we have the plethora of existing in-game Gorn, Orion, and Nausicaan ships....which players can't use. Right now if you are playing one of the KDF's allies, you can't even use your allies shuttles...despite the fact that between them, the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions have five unique shuttles. Only three of these are even available as hanger pets.
On the Republic side, there's the Remans, who right now have the smallest ship in the republic fleet (scorpion) and the largest (scimitar) with nothing to fill the gap in between. Reman ship design sensibilities are completely different than Romulan ones. It would be nice to see these aesthetics reflected more in the Republic Roster, and not just Reman paintjobs on Romulan ships. (it would be an opportunity to redo the REman NPC faction as well Cryptic-think of the possibilities!)
And it's not like we are running out of ships to use...for Vulcans alone we have the T'Plana-Hath (First contact ship), the T'Pau/Apollo class, the Suurok Class, and the Vulcan fighter.
The Bajorans would also be a great source of 'allied' ships for the federation. They have the Antares class, and the unnamed warship and transport ships classes that could work as capital ships, and two different types of fighter.
On the KDF side, we have the plethora of existing in-game Gorn, Orion, and Nausicaan ships....which players can't use. Right now if you are playing one of the KDF's allies, you can't even use your allies shuttles...despite the fact that between them, the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions have five unique shuttles. Only three of these are even available as hanger pets.
On the Republic side, there's the Remans, who right now have the smallest ship in the republic fleet (scorpion) and the largest (scimitar) with nothing to fill the gap in between. Reman ship design sensibilities are completely different than Romulan ones. It would be nice to see these aesthetics reflected more in the Republic Roster, and not just Reman paintjobs on Romulan ships. (it would be an opportunity to redo the REman NPC faction as well Cryptic-think of the possibilities!)
But if they were any good in a war, why were they not used very much (or at all) in the Dominan war?
It seems the Federation relied more upon kitbash and very old ships rather than Bajoron, Vulcan, or Andorian ships - indicating they were not worth using.
I would say like I said earlier - The federation takes the best tech from all its cultures and applies it to standard Federation engineering.
But if they were any good in a war, why were they not used very much (or at all) in the Dominan war?
It seems the Federation relied more upon kitbash and very old ships rather than Bajoron, Vulcan, or Andorian ships - indicating they were not worth using.
I would say like I said earlier - The federation takes the best tech from all its cultures and applies it to standard Federation engineering.
The Bajorans very much use their own tech for their military. Having them use the military ships they were already seen using in the shows makes perfect sense.
We already have two Vulcan ships and three Andorian ships in-game, so that isn't true for STO anyways. Starfleet in STO has no problem fielding pure Vulcan and pure Andorian designs. Same goes for the KDF in STO in regards to the Orion, Nausicaan, and Gorn ships.
And again, this is all about making an alternative to the constant barrage of enemy ship designs we are getting in STO. A Suurok or Antares Class makes significantly mroe sense for a starfleet officer to fly than an Undine or Vaudwaar ship. Likewise, it makes much more sense for a KDF member to be flying around a Orion Warbarge or a Sypon frigate than an adapted Tal Shiar destroyer.
The Bajorans very much use their own tech for their military. Having them use the military ships they were already seen using in the shows makes perfect sense.
They do?
They had a Cardasian space station defending thier wormhole and home planet. (taken over and adapted with federation tech)
They had federation star ships protecting thier wormhole and home planet.
Can you give any reference to where bajoran ships took part of a major battle, or where seen as significant?
Upon joining the Federation they would have been expected (and probably gratefull for) federation technology.
They had a Cardasian space station defending thier wormhole and home planet. (taken over and adapted with federation tech)
They had federation star ships protecting thier wormhole and home planet.
Can you give any reference to where bajoran ships took part of a major battle, or where seen as significant?
Upon joining the Federation they would have been expected (and probably gratefull for) federation technology.
The Antares-class carrier and the unnamed warship routinely made patrols at least as far out as DS9, so we know they patrolled their territory.
They also used starships against the Cardassians, and were even willing to go toe to toe with the Romulans.
They were quite antiquated and usually outgunned. But yes, the Bajorans have demonstrated on more than one occasion that they were willing to use their own technology to fight their enemies.
With modern trek technology, no reason to think they couldn't be upgraded like the Andorian or Vulcan ships.
The Antares-class carrier and the unnamed warship routinely made patrols at least as far out as DS9, so we know they patrolled their territory.
They also used starships against the Cardassians, and were even willing to go toe to toe with the Romulans.
They were quite antiquated and usually outgunned. But yes, the Bajorans have demonstrated on more than one occasion that they were willing to use their own technology to fight their enemies.
With modern trek technology, no reason to think they couldn't be upgraded like the Andorian or Vulcan ships.
Although it happened in a parallel universe (TNG episode 'Parallels'), the Bajorans did manage to conquer the Cardassian Union. If the Bajorans don't have warp capability, even in a parallel universe, there would be no way for them to conquer the Cardassians. A whole lot things in that universe would have to go differently, for them to be the aggressors, rather than the Cardassians.
The Bajorans very much use their own tech for their military. Having them use the military ships they were already seen using in the shows makes perfect sense.
No, it doesn't, actually, because what they had in DS9 was severely outdated (which makes perfect sense for a military that was a guerrilla movement less than a decade earlier). In "Shadows and Symbols" they basically said that the Bajoran Militia blockade of a Romulan field hospital on a moon they'd loaned the Empire was going to be a speed bump to a squadron of warbirds.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
All the Bajoran Militia ships Kira used to blockade the Romulan base on one of the moons of Bajor were non warp. Was there ever a warp capable Bajoran ship shown?
The Bajoran starship was a versatile type of warp capable starship utilized by the Bajoran Militia as an assault vessel, scout ship, and transport ship in the late-24th century.
The Bajorans definitely possessed warp technology, but it was relatively scarce in the aftermath of the Cardassian occupation.
When you join the federation I'm pretty sure you have to adopt the standardized engineering designs. Otherwise you would have weak/crappy ships from new members such as Bajor attempting to go head to head with more powerfull ships. (Bajor would never have needed to join the federation if it could defend itself in the first place)
The federation takes all the 'good' bits from other cultures and adapts it into their standard engineering.
I think it's a mistake to use the terms "Federation" and "Starfleet" interchangeably. We can be reasonably certain that Starfleet uses standardized designs for their ships, based on the shows and films.
I don't think it's a contradiction to think that Federation member worlds might field their own designs outside of Starfleet - we know that member worlds are responsible for their own local security, for example, and may use their own ships there. To say nothing of non-military operations.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
No, it doesn't, actually, because what they had in DS9 was severely outdated (which makes perfect sense for a military that was a guerrilla movement less than a decade earlier). In "Shadows and Symbols" they basically said that the Bajoran Militia blockade of a Romulan field hospital on a moon they'd loaned the Empire was going to be a speed bump to a squadron of warbirds.
:rolleyes:
I explicitly acknowledged that they were outdated...I said as much in the post two up from yours. They were still willing to commit them to battle in defense of Bajoran interests.
This shows a noticeable degree of independence between their military and Starfleet.
No reason they couldn't just retrofit those Antares carriers or fighters with modern tech, like the Romulans did with the T'varo, the Vulcans did with the D'Kyr, or the the Andorians with the Kunari, or the Klingons with the raptor....etc.
So the question of them being outdated is not as relevant in this case.
I explicitly acknowledged that they were outdated...I said as much in the post two up from yours. They were still willing to commit them to battle in defense of Bajoran interests.
This shows a noticeable degree of independence between their military and Starfleet.
I'm inclined to think that it's a matter of choice whether member states keep their native militaries or not. In Bajor's case, they've handed space over to Starfleet by 2409 (my headcanon explanation is budget cuts), but maintain the Militia as their terrestrial army. And I wouldn't be surprised if the joint operation of DS9 is still in effect: for example it would make sense for station security to still be provided by the Militia a la Odo due to them having better local knowledge.
No reason they couldn't just retrofit those Antares carriers or fighters with modern tech, like the Romulans did with the T'varo, the Vulcans did with the D'Kyr, or the the Andorians with the Kunari, or the Klingons with the raptor....etc.
So the question of them being outdated is not as relevant in this case.
I've actually been rationalizing those as new-build ships on old hull plans. Materials naturally degrade after a while (just for starters, metal fatigue from acceleration and thermal stresses) so there's only so many times you can refit before you have to strip it down to the superstructure and rebuild it*, at which point it may be more cost-effective to just recycle it and build a new ship. And backwards-compatibility isn't always a priority.
* Meaningless trivia: they did that to the Millennium Falcon in one of the Star Wars EU books--I forget which--and had to replace over half the framing because it was plain worn out.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I explicitly acknowledged that they were outdated...I said as much in the post two up from yours. They were still willing to commit them to battle in defense of Bajoran interests.
.
So what if they where 'willing to commit? anything, or at all? The Bajoran's are a prideful people, If if I had my grandmother wheel about in her wheel chair and 'attack' people it would be a 'willing to commit', it does not engender an 'ability to fight' - they are mutually elusive.
The fact remains the Bajoran's could not defend themselves (thus DS9 and all it entailed) - they could put up a fight, but their ships are (to put it nicely) TRIBBLE.
Willingness notwithstanding - The Bajorans relied upon Fed Tech to save them - there is no two ways about it. None at all.
This game's creators forget about cannon when & how they choose for the sake of selling things to gamers and Trek fans.
Ship designs of individual races or worlds in the Federation should no longer exist as a part of Starfleet. The articles of the Federation adopted a common ship design system for all members. You can have ships that aren't part of starfleet from within the Federation, but they should not bear the USS or NX or NCC descriptors as part of their designation.
IMO, a "new" ship built by say, Andorian shipyards should NOT be better than anything in Starfleet. Shipyards of any race in the Federation are Federation shipyards by definition. Any lesser vessels created by other means are freighters or transports and would be designated as civilian craft, not military, and have the SS designation....and maybe one phaser.
Conceptually speaking, there is way more to Trek than the Federation. However, I'm not sure any of them would permit a ship built by a private contractor or captured from some raid into their official forces, either. BUt what really matters to the people doing it it is this:
I've actually been rationalizing those as new-build ships on old hull plans. Materials naturally degrade after a while (just for starters, metal fatigue from acceleration and thermal stresses) so there's only so many times you can refit before you have to strip it down to the superstructure and rebuild it*, at which point it may be more cost-effective to just recycle it and build a new ship. And backwards-compatibility isn't always a priority.
* Meaningless trivia: they did that to the Millennium Falcon in one of the Star Wars EU books--I forget which--and had to replace over half the framing because it was plain worn out.
My personal read is that a lot of the 25th century takes on older ships, like the Vulcan science ship, is that they're not literally the same model of ship as the one seen in ENT. Kind of like how the Excelsior-class is still around as a solid workhorse of Starfleet despite the original Excelsior appearing over a century ago. You open up the hood of a 25th Century Excelsior-class built during the Dominion War, you'd find "modern" bio-neural gelpacks and isolinear chips and optical circuitry and quantum torpedoes and so on. Under the metal, it's a completely different animal than the original.
It just turned out that the Excelsior, which was originally designed for testing out the Federation's most bleeding edge technology remember, had one of the best designs in history. It's incredibly easy to upgrade the existing hulls with new technology, as the ship was originally designed to test out new tech. So it's easy to modify the designs and upgrade both the existent fleet and the newer ships in the yard. On top of that, it's one of the most solid and versatile "workhorse" ships ever constructed, much like the Ambassador-class was meant to be in TNG as sort of the general purpose Starfleet cruiser next to the awesomeness of the Galaxy-classes (at least that was the idea of the show's producers, it just never turned out that way for a variety of behind the scenes reasons).
The analogy I'd make is to the B-52. Those have been around for longer than many of us have been alive, and the Air Force is on model G or something by now. Heck, a lot of the stuff in the Air Force and military was designed back in the 1960s or 70s. I figure a "modern" Excelsior is, similarly, not a carbon copy of the original, but instead labeled "Excelsior Block XVII" or "Excelsior Model N" or whatever in the copy of "Jane's Fighting Starships" that sits on every captain's shelf.
To get back to my point, I figure the Vulcan science ship is similar. It's not the same class of ship we saw in ENT, but a successor using a similar hull design because it's one the Vulcan engineers are highly familiar with and good at building. Vulcans are by nature a very practical people who value reliability, precision, and efficiency, and they'd see using a hull design they are familiar with as a logical choice. At least, a logical choice to a Vulcan.
Though I do agree with Darthmeow about the NX-01 design being an Akira with TOS nacelles slapped on. One design I'd seen in a fan reimagining I liked took some elements from the Akira-esque design of the saucer... and then showed another Starfleet ship, that looked more like the engineering section of a Constitution. Also thought the Axanar fanwork did well with the Ares-class there, where you can see how Starfleet designs evolved into the Constitution-class heavy cruisers to counter the Klingon D7's.
The analogy I'd make is to the B-52. Those have been around for longer than many of us have been alive, and the Air Force is on model G or something by now. Heck, a lot of the stuff in the Air Force and military was designed back in the 1960s or 70s. I figure a "modern" Excelsior is, similarly, not a carbon copy of the original, but instead labeled "Excelsior Block XVII" or "Excelsior Model N" or whatever in the copy of "Jane's Fighting Starships" that sits on every captain's shelf.
Not really a good analogy. They keep the B-52 around because despite its age it has a specific mission profile that it's very good at, which is carrying lots and lots of very big bombs. Unfortunately that means it doesn't get much play these days because fighting insurgents and urban warfare require precision, not saturation, which is something a fighter-bomber like an F-16 or F-35, a Reaper drone, or a Tomahawk missile is better at (more cost-effective and less collateral damage). So they bring it out when it's needed, which isn't very often. And because of the limited call for its mission profile in current conflicts, there's no need for a next-gen replacement.
Whereas Starfleet has a tendency to build its mainline cruisers to be jacks-of-all-trades that can be readily repurposed for any number of mission profiles. E.g. the Enterprise-D was an embassy with engines, the Venture was a line battleship and probably an admiral's flagship, and in one of my recent fics in Ten Forward they converted the USS Bajor, a late-model GCS, into a troop carrier for the Delta Quadrant (a GCS can carry up to 15,000 passengers, more than enough for a full infantry division).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
When you join the federation I'm pretty sure you have to adopt the standardized engineering designs. Otherwise you would have weak/crappy ships from new members such as Bajor attempting to go head to head with more powerfull ships. (Bajor would never have needed to join the federation if it could defend itself in the first place)
This is not the case. Many species retain their own ships, however, those ships are usually not under direct control of the Federation. If you enter Starfleet, you'll serve on a Starfleet ship. If you're a member of the Andorian Military, you'd serve on an Andorian ship. (for example)
I would love to see some ships from other member races. We already have the Kumari variants but they don´t have a fleet variant, are T5U and considered glass-cannons. We have the D´Kyr which needs a revamp because its not a good ship. It is looking great but the stats are not good.
A proper Fleet D´Kyr or T6 D´Kyr that would be a rival to the new Pathfinder ships would be great. Or bettr. a D´Kyr Cruiser 8high hull HP, 4/$ weapons) because the D´Kyr wer slo designated as "Combat-Cruiser" and the in-game D´Kyr is definitely not a Combat cruiser.
The Suurok class would also be a Science ship/Combat-Cruiser (i would prefer a cruiser ) that would look great in the Game.
A Retrofitted dorsal Carrier.
No idea what a "Dorsal Carrier" is but a Vulcan Carrier would be good. Maybe as Carrier-Dreadnought like the Narcine or Galaxy-X with 4/4 or 4/3 weapons and one or 2 hangars. According to memory-alpha that ship was launched around 3125 but who cares? We have NX-clas s ships, Constitutions and Wells-Class ships flying around so everything from the 22nd to the 29th century.
And Tellarite ships could work as Escorts with cannons. (think there were some with Cannons in a Star Trek Legacy mod)
But of course they should be c-store ships, not Lockbox ships. they should be T6 and maybe the D´Kyr and Kumari could also get a HP boost and a T6 upgrade. THat woukd make me a happy trekkie
Oh but still i have to mention that a T6 Constitution (with original and refit skin) and NX class would be great :cool::rolleyes:
It was probably a mistake to make the NX-01 look so close to later Starfleet ships. The NX-01 is a ship build by humans, and if later ships look similar, it would suggest we are still flying human designs.
Not necesarilly in the entirity though.
It could be that it was found that the hull design of the human ship was best for adaptability, in both design variation for different tasks and tech intergration, and space flight. Humans didn't have a tractor beam at that point but the Vulcans did, so that tech got brought into the design. Maybe it was found Andorian shields were better than the ones created by humans so that was then added to the mix, maybe Tellarite metalurgy for strength was found to be best and so that was used to make the hull plating or the superstructure.
I am sure people with much better knowledge could come up with better of other species tech integration.
Comments
While it's not "canon" (merely awesome), in Prelude to Axanar it's mentioned that on the Ares-class it's the combination of ten worlds working together and contributing to the project. While the Humans weren't all that advanced, the Vulcans chipped in with propulsion, shields, environmental systems, better sensors, while the Andorians brought their phasers and weapons technology to the table, so on. That's kind of how I imagine Starfleet working: a Starfleet ship is the product of the combined technological research of the 200 member worlds of the Federation, and on top of that, the new ideas they come up with when you have different species working together coming up with stuff they'd have never thought of on their own.
My headcanon, incidentally, is that the Star Cruisers in STO came out of a Vulcan design house or their main designers and project leads during their development were Vulcan or heavily influenced by Vulcan design practices. Their whole look is reminiscent of the curves of Vulcan craft.
That's kind of how I see it. The Andorian Imperial Guard, for instance, is more like... the analogy I'd make is to the National Guard or State Troopers in the US. They deal with local security and defense, while Starfleet is more like the Navy and FBI in that they deal with stuff between the member worlds and colonies. Starfleet/The Federation gets involved if it's too big for the locals to handle or they ask for help.
And it's not like we are running out of ships to use...for Vulcans alone we have the T'Plana-Hath (First contact ship), the T'Pau/Apollo class, the Suurok Class, and the Vulcan fighter.
The Bajorans would also be a great source of 'allied' ships for the federation. They have the Antares class, and the unnamed warship and transport ships classes that could work as capital ships, and two different types of fighter.
On the KDF side, we have the plethora of existing in-game Gorn, Orion, and Nausicaan ships....which players can't use. Right now if you are playing one of the KDF's allies, you can't even use your allies shuttles...despite the fact that between them, the Gorn, Nausicaans and Orions have five unique shuttles. Only three of these are even available as hanger pets.
On the Republic side, there's the Remans, who right now have the smallest ship in the republic fleet (scorpion) and the largest (scimitar) with nothing to fill the gap in between. Reman ship design sensibilities are completely different than Romulan ones. It would be nice to see these aesthetics reflected more in the Republic Roster, and not just Reman paintjobs on Romulan ships. (it would be an opportunity to redo the REman NPC faction as well Cryptic-think of the possibilities!)
But if they were any good in a war, why were they not used very much (or at all) in the Dominan war?
It seems the Federation relied more upon kitbash and very old ships rather than Bajoron, Vulcan, or Andorian ships - indicating they were not worth using.
I would say like I said earlier - The federation takes the best tech from all its cultures and applies it to standard Federation engineering.
We already have two Vulcan ships and three Andorian ships in-game, so that isn't true for STO anyways. Starfleet in STO has no problem fielding pure Vulcan and pure Andorian designs. Same goes for the KDF in STO in regards to the Orion, Nausicaan, and Gorn ships.
And again, this is all about making an alternative to the constant barrage of enemy ship designs we are getting in STO. A Suurok or Antares Class makes significantly mroe sense for a starfleet officer to fly than an Undine or Vaudwaar ship. Likewise, it makes much more sense for a KDF member to be flying around a Orion Warbarge or a Sypon frigate than an adapted Tal Shiar destroyer.
They do?
They had a Cardasian space station defending thier wormhole and home planet. (taken over and adapted with federation tech)
They had federation star ships protecting thier wormhole and home planet.
Can you give any reference to where bajoran ships took part of a major battle, or where seen as significant?
Upon joining the Federation they would have been expected (and probably gratefull for) federation technology.
Not to mention that even if they have warp-capable ships - their numbers would be ridiculously tiny compared to the Federation or Klingon fleets.
They also used starships against the Cardassians, and were even willing to go toe to toe with the Romulans.
They were quite antiquated and usually outgunned. But yes, the Bajorans have demonstrated on more than one occasion that they were willing to use their own technology to fight their enemies.
With modern trek technology, no reason to think they couldn't be upgraded like the Andorian or Vulcan ships.
Although it happened in a parallel universe (TNG episode 'Parallels'), the Bajorans did manage to conquer the Cardassian Union. If the Bajorans don't have warp capability, even in a parallel universe, there would be no way for them to conquer the Cardassians. A whole lot things in that universe would have to go differently, for them to be the aggressors, rather than the Cardassians.
No, it doesn't, actually, because what they had in DS9 was severely outdated (which makes perfect sense for a military that was a guerrilla movement less than a decade earlier). In "Shadows and Symbols" they basically said that the Bajoran Militia blockade of a Romulan field hospital on a moon they'd loaned the Empire was going to be a speed bump to a squadron of warbirds.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bajoran_starship
The Bajorans definitely possessed warp technology, but it was relatively scarce in the aftermath of the Cardassian occupation.
I think it's a mistake to use the terms "Federation" and "Starfleet" interchangeably. We can be reasonably certain that Starfleet uses standardized designs for their ships, based on the shows and films.
I don't think it's a contradiction to think that Federation member worlds might field their own designs outside of Starfleet - we know that member worlds are responsible for their own local security, for example, and may use their own ships there. To say nothing of non-military operations.
:rolleyes:
I explicitly acknowledged that they were outdated...I said as much in the post two up from yours. They were still willing to commit them to battle in defense of Bajoran interests.
This shows a noticeable degree of independence between their military and Starfleet.
No reason they couldn't just retrofit those Antares carriers or fighters with modern tech, like the Romulans did with the T'varo, the Vulcans did with the D'Kyr, or the the Andorians with the Kunari, or the Klingons with the raptor....etc.
So the question of them being outdated is not as relevant in this case.
I'm inclined to think that it's a matter of choice whether member states keep their native militaries or not. In Bajor's case, they've handed space over to Starfleet by 2409 (my headcanon explanation is budget cuts), but maintain the Militia as their terrestrial army. And I wouldn't be surprised if the joint operation of DS9 is still in effect: for example it would make sense for station security to still be provided by the Militia a la Odo due to them having better local knowledge.
I've actually been rationalizing those as new-build ships on old hull plans. Materials naturally degrade after a while (just for starters, metal fatigue from acceleration and thermal stresses) so there's only so many times you can refit before you have to strip it down to the superstructure and rebuild it*, at which point it may be more cost-effective to just recycle it and build a new ship. And backwards-compatibility isn't always a priority.
* Meaningless trivia: they did that to the Millennium Falcon in one of the Star Wars EU books--I forget which--and had to replace over half the framing because it was plain worn out.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
So what if they where 'willing to commit? anything, or at all? The Bajoran's are a prideful people, If if I had my grandmother wheel about in her wheel chair and 'attack' people it would be a 'willing to commit', it does not engender an 'ability to fight' - they are mutually elusive.
The fact remains the Bajoran's could not defend themselves (thus DS9 and all it entailed) - they could put up a fight, but their ships are (to put it nicely) TRIBBLE.
Willingness notwithstanding - The Bajorans relied upon Fed Tech to save them - there is no two ways about it. None at all.
Ship designs of individual races or worlds in the Federation should no longer exist as a part of Starfleet. The articles of the Federation adopted a common ship design system for all members. You can have ships that aren't part of starfleet from within the Federation, but they should not bear the USS or NX or NCC descriptors as part of their designation.
IMO, a "new" ship built by say, Andorian shipyards should NOT be better than anything in Starfleet. Shipyards of any race in the Federation are Federation shipyards by definition. Any lesser vessels created by other means are freighters or transports and would be designated as civilian craft, not military, and have the SS designation....and maybe one phaser.
Conceptually speaking, there is way more to Trek than the Federation. However, I'm not sure any of them would permit a ship built by a private contractor or captured from some raid into their official forces, either. BUt what really matters to the people doing it it is this:
"What can I sell you next?"
My personal read is that a lot of the 25th century takes on older ships, like the Vulcan science ship, is that they're not literally the same model of ship as the one seen in ENT. Kind of like how the Excelsior-class is still around as a solid workhorse of Starfleet despite the original Excelsior appearing over a century ago. You open up the hood of a 25th Century Excelsior-class built during the Dominion War, you'd find "modern" bio-neural gelpacks and isolinear chips and optical circuitry and quantum torpedoes and so on. Under the metal, it's a completely different animal than the original.
It just turned out that the Excelsior, which was originally designed for testing out the Federation's most bleeding edge technology remember, had one of the best designs in history. It's incredibly easy to upgrade the existing hulls with new technology, as the ship was originally designed to test out new tech. So it's easy to modify the designs and upgrade both the existent fleet and the newer ships in the yard. On top of that, it's one of the most solid and versatile "workhorse" ships ever constructed, much like the Ambassador-class was meant to be in TNG as sort of the general purpose Starfleet cruiser next to the awesomeness of the Galaxy-classes (at least that was the idea of the show's producers, it just never turned out that way for a variety of behind the scenes reasons).
The analogy I'd make is to the B-52. Those have been around for longer than many of us have been alive, and the Air Force is on model G or something by now. Heck, a lot of the stuff in the Air Force and military was designed back in the 1960s or 70s. I figure a "modern" Excelsior is, similarly, not a carbon copy of the original, but instead labeled "Excelsior Block XVII" or "Excelsior Model N" or whatever in the copy of "Jane's Fighting Starships" that sits on every captain's shelf.
To get back to my point, I figure the Vulcan science ship is similar. It's not the same class of ship we saw in ENT, but a successor using a similar hull design because it's one the Vulcan engineers are highly familiar with and good at building. Vulcans are by nature a very practical people who value reliability, precision, and efficiency, and they'd see using a hull design they are familiar with as a logical choice. At least, a logical choice to a Vulcan.
Though I do agree with Darthmeow about the NX-01 design being an Akira with TOS nacelles slapped on. One design I'd seen in a fan reimagining I liked took some elements from the Akira-esque design of the saucer... and then showed another Starfleet ship, that looked more like the engineering section of a Constitution. Also thought the Axanar fanwork did well with the Ares-class there, where you can see how Starfleet designs evolved into the Constitution-class heavy cruisers to counter the Klingon D7's.
Whereas Starfleet has a tendency to build its mainline cruisers to be jacks-of-all-trades that can be readily repurposed for any number of mission profiles. E.g. the Enterprise-D was an embassy with engines, the Venture was a line battleship and probably an admiral's flagship, and in one of my recent fics in Ten Forward they converted the USS Bajor, a late-model GCS, into a troop carrier for the Delta Quadrant (a GCS can carry up to 15,000 passengers, more than enough for a full infantry division).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Precisely.
D) None of the above.
This is not the case. Many species retain their own ships, however, those ships are usually not under direct control of the Federation. If you enter Starfleet, you'll serve on a Starfleet ship. If you're a member of the Andorian Military, you'd serve on an Andorian ship. (for example)
Those are specific Starfleet Ships.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
A proper Fleet D´Kyr or T6 D´Kyr that would be a rival to the new Pathfinder ships would be great. Or bettr. a D´Kyr Cruiser 8high hull HP, 4/$ weapons) because the D´Kyr wer slo designated as "Combat-Cruiser" and the in-game D´Kyr is definitely not a Combat cruiser.
The Suurok class would also be a Science ship/Combat-Cruiser (i would prefer a cruiser ) that would look great in the Game.
And then there is this:http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vulcan_cruiser_%28future%29
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Retrofitted_dorsal_carrier
A Retrofitted dorsal Carrier.
No idea what a "Dorsal Carrier" is but a Vulcan Carrier would be good. Maybe as Carrier-Dreadnought like the Narcine or Galaxy-X with 4/4 or 4/3 weapons and one or 2 hangars. According to memory-alpha that ship was launched around 3125 but who cares? We have NX-clas s ships, Constitutions and Wells-Class ships flying around so everything from the 22nd to the 29th century.
And Tellarite ships could work as Escorts with cannons. (think there were some with Cannons in a Star Trek Legacy mod)
But of course they should be c-store ships, not Lockbox ships. they should be T6 and maybe the D´Kyr and Kumari could also get a HP boost and a T6 upgrade. THat woukd make me a happy trekkie
Oh but still i have to mention that a T6 Constitution (with original and refit skin) and NX class would be great :cool::rolleyes:
http://
http://i60.tinypic.com/k4f600.jpg
Not necesarilly in the entirity though.
It could be that it was found that the hull design of the human ship was best for adaptability, in both design variation for different tasks and tech intergration, and space flight. Humans didn't have a tractor beam at that point but the Vulcans did, so that tech got brought into the design. Maybe it was found Andorian shields were better than the ones created by humans so that was then added to the mix, maybe Tellarite metalurgy for strength was found to be best and so that was used to make the hull plating or the superstructure.
I am sure people with much better knowledge could come up with better of other species tech integration.