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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Why were fleet alert marks nerfed?

knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
edited January 2015 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I already had to do around 75-80 fleet alert runs just to get enough marks to get a fleet spire tac console so why are mark awards being nerfed? Can a dev please explain the reasoning behind this? Fleet alerts already award a pathetic amount of marks; please don't make it worse.
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Post edited by knuhteb5 on
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Comments

  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    There's logic behind that tactic. The stuff that was nerfed also was the stuff everyone played all the time, like CCA. So by nerfing that the rest becomes more attractive, in theory at least.

    That maybe bugs, inbalances or dumb fail conditions are the main reason why 80% of the queues are emtpy is completely out of question, right?:rolleyes:
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Another reason they would reduce fleet mark rewards is if they are going to come out with a new fleet holding, or Tier soon. If so, then they will nerf the rewards so that it will take longer for small fleets to fill projects. That is just something they would do, without thinking it through.
    Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    seriousdave wrote: »
    There's logic behind that tactic. The stuff that was nerfed also was the stuff everyone played all the time, like CCA. So by nerfing that the rest becomes more attractive, in theory at least.

    That maybe bugs, inbalances or dumb fail conditions are the main reason why 80% of the queues are emtpy is completely out of question, right?:rolleyes:

    That ... , or it's a preparation by Cryptic towards the next Fleet Asset to be introduced in the next season .




    ... call it a "pre-nerf" for impending content, to get you to play moar in the future ...



    EDIT : ninja'd by Razar ...
  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Worst nerf going, I need to get around a million fleet marks as it is, it's driving me mad.
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • ussprometheus79ussprometheus79 Member Posts: 727 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    rsoblivion wrote: »
    Worst nerf going, I need to get around a million fleet marks as it is, it's driving me mad.

    A million? :eek:

    Dr. Evil style plans for STO domination? :D
    If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Ok maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but I do need 5 Spire consoles (50K per console), the 6th DoFF slot (150K) some Plasma Generating Weapon Sig Nullifiers (50K per console again or 12.5K for Mk X's)...

    Then I need some ground items like UR Plasma Grenades etc...

    Not forgetting the Fleet Singularity or the Fleet Shield which are both in the 100K region...

    A million isn't actually too far off.
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited January 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The devs were not happy having half the queue's being empty, so they hatched a plan to make them all empty.

    I think it might just succeed...
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited January 2015
    To be honest the nerfs to all of the rewards are a dumb idea. But let's not forget they've thrown use a few bread crumbs in that they've raised the level of spec and xp points gained. Also they've ramped up the rewards for the one Stf that is directly tied in with their delta block story arc namely bug hunt.

    But could someone please explain to me why they've decided to nerf the "damage" of the Kang in Cure? Because it can be interpreted in one of two ways. The first being they've reduced the amount of damage it takes from the assimilated borg ships (which wouldn't really be a bad thing) or they've reduced the damage the Kang actually does. In which case it proves that cryptic really doesn't have any idea of what goes on in their own game since the only damage the Kang does is via a warp core breach which by that time in advanced the mission has already passed the failure point.
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • defcon1776defcon1776 Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    seriousdave wrote: »
    There's logic behind that tactic. The stuff that was nerfed also was the stuff everyone played all the time, like CCA. So by nerfing that the rest becomes more attractive, in theory at least.

    I guess nobody is playing Bug Hunt, nice buff!:rolleyes:
    pwlaughingtrendy wrote: »

    Bug Hunt:
    • Normal rewards have been increased by 25%
    • Advanced rewards have been increased by 50%.
    • Elite rewards have been increased by 75%.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." Q
    Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    -

    Is it actually a case of players liking the missions or are they just easy missions that are over-rewarding and providing a path of least resistance to something they want? They don't necessarily like the missions at all, but they like the path of least resistance.

    Cause if there was no path of least resistance, well, then players would be free to play what they actually like, yeah? ;)
    defcon1776 wrote: »
    I guess nobody is playing Bug Hunt, nice buff!:rolleyes:

    Folks were playing for easy APCs, right? Oddly enough though, apparently it was under-rewarding Delta Marks. Not to get into one of those "I have a sandwich" things, but dayum...it's like it's raining Delta Marks 24/7 so I never even noticed...but apparently some folks did and brought it up to them.
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Playing queues for FMs is so S6 though, Doffs get you more than you can ever use. I bet each of my characters have had over 100k excess marks, most of which has been dumped into the 2k FM fleet projects.
    Delirium Tremens
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    Nothing to do anymore.
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  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    'need?" no, "WANT". Nothing in this game is "needed". You need food to live, you need electricity to power your computer, but this is a game. everything about it is optional, including your spending.

    What you're seeing is the use of the stick, because they don't want to use carrots.

    and no one "needs", nor "wants" people like you. a completely superfluous existance.
  • nyxadrillnyxadrill Member Posts: 1,242 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    A mindset that I loathe with a passion, because as discussed numerous times before, metrics - and the beancounters who review them - have a habit of saying EXACTLY what The Powers That Be WANT them to say.

    As a wise man once said..."There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" ;)

    The art to understanding ANY statistics/metrics is in correct interpretation. Judging by some of the decisions I've seen made of late, I see no evidence of that. :rolleyes:

    I suspect the metrics are being, what I call, "selectively" viewed, in that they are being interpreted in a way that is more in keeping with the required business line.

    That's a personal assumption that I'd gladly have proved wrong by the way! :)
    server_hamster6.png
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    The devs were not happy having half the queue's being empty, so they hatched a plan to make them all empty.

    I think it might just succeed...

    Above and beyond even thier greatest expectations
  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    'need?" no, "WANT". Nothing in this game is "needed". You need food to live, you need electricity to power your computer, but this is a game. everything about it is optional, including your spending.

    What you're seeing is the use of the stick, because they don't want to use carrots.

    What I see is a goal I set myself for the build I want to achieve. Before DR it was achievable pretty easily and there were good numbers playing the required queues like Fleet Alert etc...

    Now it's much harder to get the needed Fleet Credit from Fleet Marks or other means. It's now a grind that will take nigh on 10x longer to get the gear I am after for a single character. I have 8 characters and I like to play them all, though I do have a Fed Main and a Rom Main. My KDF Main is languishing at 53 because I can't be bothered to do the Argala grind, so I'm just doing what I want ingame instead. Problem is that's around 17x slower than grinding Argala...
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    'need?" no, "WANT". Nothing in this game is "needed". You need food to live, you need electricity to power your computer, but this is a game. everything about it is optional, including your spending.

    What you're seeing is the use of the stick, because they don't want to use carrots.

    You don't need your money, give it to me. You can forage for food, shelter, and clothing.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Don't think of it so much as a nerf to your marks as much as a buff to your play time. Before you were playing the game less before you got all your stuff. Now you get to play it more. You get to.
    [SIGPIC]http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=94154940000&dateline=1390007378[/SIGPIC]
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    The devs were not happy having half the queue's being empty, so they hatched a plan to make them all empty.

    I think it might just succeed...

    In another Universe , you'd be labeled "rebel scum" for that ! ;)

    patrickngo wrote: »
    'need?" no, "WANT". Nothing in this game is "needed". You need food to live, you need electricity to power your computer, but this is a game. everything about it is optional, including your spending.

    That might have been true before DR, but after it you find yourself sandwiched between HP and a timer with the only way out being DPS .

    The time when optionals and relaxed gameplay is over ... , in the queues anyway .
    What you're seeing is the use of the stick, because they don't want to use carrots.

    I can agree with that to a point .
    What many see is blatant manipulation towards playing certain DR content .
    Thus places like Argala will only exist until Cryptic deems them worthy to exist .

    D'angelo gives and D'angelo takes away .





    ... it may be just me, but lately I've had the urge to take a shower after reading the release notes ...
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,566 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't play many queues because of timers that kill the instance if people don't meet the conditions. In PuGs people fail those quite a bit and frankly it makes the game not fun at all when you go in and not five minutes later your out and locked from doing it for like a half hour. If they make the remaining instances I play as un-fun as the ones I avoid then I'll be totally bored with this game.

    Yeah I know, "FIND A FLEET" well I'm already in one and we do instances a lot of times. That being said, some of us even in fleets like to do PuGs to meet new people possibly. Also you don't find new people very easily to get fresh blood in fleets when PuGs are avoided like the plague for whatever reason.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    A mindset that I loathe with a passion, because as discussed numerous times before, metrics - and the beancounters who review them - have a habit of saying EXACTLY what The Powers That Be WANT them to say.

    I mindset I was apparently not allowed to talk about.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    rsoblivion wrote: »
    Ok maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but I do need 5 Spire consoles (50K per console), the 6th DoFF slot (150K) some Plasma Generating Weapon Sig Nullifiers (50K per console again or 12.5K for Mk X's)...

    Then I need some ground items like UR Plasma Grenades etc...

    Not forgetting the Fleet Singularity or the Fleet Shield which are both in the 100K region...

    A million isn't actually too far off.


    Not to state the obvious, but, erm, that's what contributing to your Fleet is all about. If you want Fleet Credits, contribute to your Fleet: helps you, and the rest of your Fleet too. I've spent untold millions of FC on a manifold of various Fleet consoles and all that. And I like to keep at least 2 million FC handy, for a rainy day.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Yeah this was a cruel one, especially for the very casual player. This is a great early mission for players to get their feet wet. The nerf is petty and spiteful like the vendor trash nerf.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sheldonlcooper wrote: »
    Yeah this was a cruel one, especially for the very casual player. This is a great early mission for players to get their feet wet. The nerf is petty and spiteful like the vendor trash nerf.

    Fleet Alert was one of my favorite means to get some noticeable FC, back in the day. Much like the old Mirror Event was instrumental to my leveling up. It's a sad day when something as innocuous as Fleet Alert gets hit with a 50% nerf bat.

    Fleet Alert was topping in the metrics?! Probably because almost everything else in the public queue is dead, is why. I'm really quite distressed about the way a cetain someone is interpreting these metric. The conclusions I would draw from them would be radically different, I can tell you that.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink from it.

    They just keep nerfing queues thinking it'll lead others to the un-played/under-played queues, but that's still not going to make players play them, for one reason or another (time/gain efficiency or too many bugs).
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Nerf fleet marks ....check

    Nerf something random ......check

    Nerf fleet marks again?....double check

    Now

    Lets nerf them all again for good measure
  • fruitvendor12fruitvendor12 Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Fleet Alert was topping in the metrics?! Probably because almost everything else in the public queue is dead, is why. I'm really quite distressed about the way a cetain someone is interpreting these metric. The conclusions I would draw from them would be radically different, I can tell you that.
    I've been playing FA quite a bit. Recently. Because the queues are essentially dead and even channels like PESTF are barely filled over the day.

    I absolutely agree with you. Metrics are worse than useless if there is no context to explain data into information.
  • forcemajeureforcemajeure Member Posts: 212 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The metrics say: The players aren't doing what we want them to.

    "The floggings shall continue until morale improves!"
  • zathri83zathri83 Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Pvpers found fleet alert to be too OP. :(
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    rsoblivion wrote: »
    Ok maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but I do need 5 Spire consoles (50K per console), the 6th DoFF slot (150K) some Plasma Generating Weapon Sig Nullifiers (50K per console again or 12.5K for Mk X's)...

    Then I need some ground items like UR Plasma Grenades etc...

    Not forgetting the Fleet Singularity or the Fleet Shield which are both in the 100K region...

    A million isn't actually too far off.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Not to state the obvious, but, erm, that's what contributing to your Fleet is all about. If you want Fleet Credits, contribute to your Fleet: helps you, and the rest of your Fleet too. I've spent untold millions of FC on a manifold of various Fleet consoles and all that. And I like to keep at least 2 million FC handy, for a rainy day.

    And may I note that every contribution leads to the acquisition of fleet credits.

    13 fleet marks (650 fleet credits) per run is not a crippling decline to your fleet credit earning rate, unless said earning rate is 100% fleet marks.

    Take the day's dil from your ISA run and contribute that to the fleet instead of spending it on the dil sink du jour, or converting it to Zen. Toss a few DOffs into that rabbit hole. Either one can make up the "missing" 650 FCs from a single FA run. While those costs might get "prohibitive" if you make multiple FA runs per day, this might be time to branch out some...

    Bug hunt is receiving a slight rewards buff. Mine trap, Atmosphere Assault, and Nukara Prime's Self Destruct mission are all receiving buffs to the reward, and all of them are greater than 100% (so more than double the rewards), Atmosphere Assault Advanced is getting 400% more reward.

    IIRC, all of these missions reward fleet marks as an alternative, I'd say that AAA's 400% boost is more than the 13 lost from FA. Go grind those shuttle missions - now with even weaker walkers for quicker kills... :)

    Is Ba'al the Stargate Lord of Metrics (Or god, or alien master, or whatever they call these people)? If so, remember to praise Ba'al for changing the queue metrics favorably... I mean, obviously the zeroes in AAA were a reporting error if the rewards need to go up 400% and there's no chart proving that AAA "horrendously underpaid" according to the standard average desired payout... :P
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
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