test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Remove Faction Restrictions from Defera

245

Comments

  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So help the Aliance and get branded a Race traitor, do you also get branded a traitor for directaly disobeing the orders of the Klingon High Council if you fire on them?

    Man being a Klingon warrior in an Aliance joint operation must be stressful, everything is treason.
    :D

    thats kinda the point. nothing they are doing KDF makes any sense at all. so yeah very stressful
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    That would actualy be pretty cool, same with Romulans joining the Tal-Shiar or Feds joining....okay I don't know what would be their equivilant, the Terran Empire or something.

    But of course that would mean rewriting half of the game, which is already having trouble supporting 2.5 factions....

    MAQUIS 10/chars
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • edited January 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This mewling about race traitors and wishes to break this alliance is ridiculous and foolhardy, we will always be wariorrs of the empire and we will fight with honor. Qapla!
    Now shut the fu*k up already guys
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    This mewling about race traitors and wishes to break this alliance is ridiculous and foolhardy, we will always be wariorrs of the empire and we will fight with honor. Qapla!
    Now shut the fu*k up already guys

    if you want warriors of the Empire to listen get rid of that federation avatar. till then see you on the battle field. if you dare.
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    icsairguns wrote: »
    if you want warriors of the Empire to listen get rid of that federation avatar. till then see you on the battle field. if you dare.

    Your logic is flawed
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    Your logic is flawed

    What logic? Klingon logic goes, "Hey, they didn't follow us into an invasion after we said 'blah blah Undine blah blah' even though we didn't show any evidence and were completely wrong the last time! They must be infiltrated! Kill their civilians!"
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited January 2015
    Simplest of answers here.

    Allow cross faction teaming. If you disagree (whether for RP reasons, canon eccentricities, or you're just being a jerk), team only with your faction.

    'Nuff said. Move along.
  • e8f7a409e8f7a409 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    What logic? Klingon logic goes, "Hey, they didn't follow us into an invasion after we said 'blah blah Undine blah blah' even though we didn't show any evidence and were completely wrong the last time! They must be infiltrated! Kill their civilians!"

    And the Klingons were right.


    lessley00 wrote: »
    This mewling about race traitors and wishes to break this alliance is ridiculous and foolhardy, we will always be wariorrs of the empire and we will fight with honor. Qapla!

    You shouldn't mix the concept of honor as seen by modern humanism with the concept of honor of feudal societies and their warrior aristocracies. The words may be the same but the concepts embodied are not.
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    simplest Of Answers Here.

    Allow Cross Faction Teaming. If You Disagree (whether For Rp Reasons, Canon Eccentricities, Or You're Just Being A Jerk), Team Only With Your Faction.

    'nuff Said. Move Along.

    So Say We All! So Say We All! So Say We All!
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • edited January 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    e8f7a409 wrote: »
    And the Klingons were right.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    your argument collapses in the face of two things:

    Dr. Eric Cooper is one.

    A certain 'Deltan'Admiral is another.

    Oh, wait, three, there's that blueshirt character on ESD during that...mission.

    The Federation was infiltrated up to it's pretty blue eyeballs. The Klingons were right.

    Oh, give me a ****ing break. What the hell does Undine infiltration have to with territorial claims in the Hromi Cluster, where, I will remind you, the Klingons engaged in what is commonly known as "ethnic cleansing"?

    The Klingons never gave a flying **** about the Undine and you know it; they were just a convenient excuse to go back to star-conquering. At least when the Romulans try to conquer you they're honest about why they're doing it. Hell, the Federation PC does more actual good to fight the Undine than the Klingons ever did.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • edited January 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Evidence of ethnic cleansing, pls? otherwise you're just spouting propoganda to feel better about the soon-to-be-deleted Divide Et Impera and the soon-to-be-rewritten Sharien's Swords-both missions focus on Starfleet officers committing war crimes and acts of war, including outright atrocities. *(Slaughtering medical researchers counts as an atrocity, unprovoked attacks are acts o war...)

    KDF missions have ONE questionable action-beating a prisoner who attacked FIRST to obtain legitimate military operational codes-interrogation, in other words.

    why do you think they found it necessary to recast Sela as a moustache-twister and remove eight out of fifteen missions outright from the Romulan arc?

    as for the Hromi cluster duty officer missions, the phrasing is neutral enough that your allegation remains jsut that-an allegation. Sure, we're not serving them tea and cookies,but it's a war and those zones are strategic ground.

    as to the war itself...

    The Federation repudiated it's treaty obligations in the face of physical EVIDENCE in the case of the Gorn Hegemony. since the Dominion War, the Klingon Empire has maintained (with, until that repudiation) a role as the front-line guardians of the Alpha Quadrant against hostile attacks.

    When presented with evidence of those attacks, the Federation repudiated it's obligations under the Deep Space Nine and Khitomer agreements, effectively siding with the invaders.

    What did you think would happen?

    YOU SIR ARE AN A**HOLE! The Klingons are pretty cool people but I would never put them in charge of taking down a factions leader. Starfleet would have done a covert operation to EXPOSE King Gorn (what the dudes name again?) to his people so that they can kill him. Klingons however first say "Our neighbors leader has a 3% chance of being an undine? LETS TAKE IT OUT ON ALL GORN!" then they wage a long and bloody war on the Gorn that costs thousands of lives in ships and sodiers. And sorry, the Klingons arnt the front-line guardians of the alpha quadrant, the federation is. The Klingons didn't HAVE ANY proof that King Gorn was an undine, because Starfleet would want to know why the Klingons attacked the Hegmony and the have the 'Klingon blood was spilled' excuse to keep Gorn space.
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Funny how this thread is about Starfleet and the KDF working together and now were at eachothers throats. THis is illogical
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    Funny how this thread is about Starfleet and the KDF working together and now were at eachothers throats. THis is illogical

    And whenever my letters change colers im mearly roleplaying my chars: blue is my Vulcan fed, Green is my Romulan, purple is my Reman, and red is my Klingon.
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    Funny how this thread is about Starfleet and the KDF working together and now were at eachothers throats. THis is illogical

    Because that is how it should be the ideas and cultures of the two do not combine. best thing for peace between the two is to stay away from each other. or if we must play nice let be on different fronts even if same war. to avoid cultural issues.


    Simplest of answers here.

    Allow cross faction teaming. If you disagree (whether for RP reasons, canon eccentricities, or you're just being a jerk), team only with your faction.

    'Nuff said. Move along.


    SO we know you and lessely are all for a 100% generic game. that's ok we know where you stand at least.
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    YOU SIR ARE AN A**HOLE! The Klingons are pretty cool people but I would never put them in charge of taking down a factions leader. Starfleet would have done a covert operation to EXPOSE King Gorn (what the dudes name again?) to his people so that they can kill him. Klingons however first say "Our neighbors leader has a 3% chance of being an undine? LETS TAKE IT OUT ON ALL GORN!" then they wage a long and bloody war on the Gorn that costs thousands of lives in ships and sodiers. And sorry, the Klingons arnt the front-line guardians of the alpha quadrant, the federation is. The Klingons didn't HAVE ANY proof that King Gorn was an undine, because Starfleet would want to know why the Klingons attacked the Hegmony and the have the 'Klingon blood was spilled' excuse to keep Gorn space.

    You Sir should rush to read up more on the game's lore before you start attacking people that know and understand much more than you before Cryptic completely alters 5 years of their own work to accomodate the fedbears.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    shpoks wrote: »
    You Sir should rush to read up more on the game's lore before you start attacking people that know and understand much more than you before Cryptic completely alters 5 years of their own work to accomodate the fedbears.

    I read the lore on the wiki and im getting the datachips in the game. I never read the Typhon Pact and Fall books but it seems that anything in those books are irrelevent if we want STO to be part of the franchise plot. And good sir, I am no fedbear, I have one for each faction and I intend to split it equally into the following: 2 Klingons and one Gorn, One Vulcan and two humans, and two Romulans and one Reman. Each char has a differant personality when it comes to roleplaying and how about you TRY and catch up on the shows before you call ALL Starfleet bureucrats feddy bears.
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    shpoks wrote: »
    You Sir should rush to read up more on the game's lore before you start attacking people that know and understand much more than you before Cryptic completely alters 5 years of their own work to accomodate the fedbears.

    And one other thing: If cryptic is accomidating one faction then the Battle of Qo'nos in Surface Tension wouldn't have happened and we would still be killing each other in a pointless war full of ancient claims and old hatreds and a certain Undine posing as a Gorn.
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    I read the lore on the wiki and im getting the datachips in the game. I never read the Typhon Pact and Fall books but it seems that anything in those books are irrelevent if we want STO to be part of the franchise plot. And good sir, I am no fedbear, I have one for each faction and I intend to split it equally into the following: 2 Klingons and one Gorn, One Vulcan and two humans, and two Romulans and one Reman. Each char has a differant personality when it comes to roleplaying and how about you TRY and catch up on the shows before you call ALL Starfleet bureucrats feddy bears.

    I wasn't calling you a fedbear, nor was I calling the Starfleet bureocrats from the shows that. When I say fedbear, I refer to players of STO that only play the Federation faction and while doing that constantly cry for all the unique things other factions have. (cloaks, unique consoles, singularity abilities, BoPs etc.)

    As for the lore, don't look into any of the ST books - they are completely irrelevant to STO. STO is also not a part of the franchise plot, STO's plot is a stand-alone for this game alone. If you read all the game lore, you should know that the Klingon Empire had proof for the Undine infiltration in the Gorn Hegemony's highest ranks collected by a covert operation in Gorn space by Ja'rod and the crew of the IKS Kang, a proof offered to the Federation as well as an open offer to participate in the Gorn operation from the Klingon Empire to Starfleet as per the Khitomer Accords, to which the Federation's answer was to condemn the Klingons, probably because the Federation and Starfleet's highest ranks were also infiltrated by the Undine.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    And one other thing: If cryptic is accomidating one faction then the Battle of Qo'nos in Surface Tension wouldn't have happened and we would still be killing each other in a pointless war full of ancient claims and old hatreds and a certain Undine posing as a Gorn.

    needless yes if the feds had lived up to their end of the accords pointless no. if the war had not been pressed on by the KDF no exposures would have ever been found at all.



    and you trying to use surface tensions as proof the devs dotn accommodate feds is a joke , that basically ended the war, thus accommodating the feds further.


    all i really wonder really is why do the fed players want unification with kdf so bad. if you want a feddy bear Klingon toon you can already have it. PvP is ruined and Klingon dominance is long lost there. mostly jsut from the lacking of ship mastery traits now. but other old outdated ships that suffer from gimping to help lvl the playing field for the feds.

    but o got off track does the game play of a separate faction take away anything from your fed gameplay? why are you all trying to force your ideas on the KDF? really please do tell why it is so important to destroy the Klingon culture.

    only thing i can think of is you as so into roleplaying that its your life's goal to destroy the empire entirely and if that's the don't get so offended when kdf want to retain their culture and fight for it .




    but really please do tell why is it so important to destroy the KDF? and unification is doing just that and it started with LoR warriors seen it for what it was way back then and its only gotten worse.
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Im not trying to destroy anything, im making statements. And I respect every faction for many reasons: I respect Starfleets diplomatic approach to things even if its very stupid to do so, I respect D'Tan's reunification TRIBBLE while opposing it, and I respect the Klingons ancient customs however outdated they are. But remember: Cryptic may support the Federation, but the game content is only fit for a warrior!

    Fu*k you thats why
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • kapla1755kapla1755 Member Posts: 1,249
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    Im not trying to destroy anything, im making statements. And I respect every faction for many reasons: I respect Starfleets diplomatic approach to things even if its very stupid to do so, I respect D'Tan's reunification TRIBBLE while opposing it, and I respect the Klingons ancient customs however outdated they are. But remember: Cryptic may support the Federation, but the game content is only fit for a warrior!

    Fu*k you thats why


    Your statements seem more inflammatory than reasoned. :rolleyes:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • e8f7a409e8f7a409 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    lessley00 wrote: »
    YOU SIR ARE AN A**HOLE! The Klingons are pretty cool people but I would never put them in charge of taking down a factions leader. Starfleet would have done a covert operation to EXPOSE King Gorn (what the dudes name again?) to his people so that they can kill him. Klingons however first say "Our neighbors leader has a 3% chance of being an undine? LETS TAKE IT OUT ON ALL GORN!" then they wage a long and bloody war on the Gorn that costs thousands of lives in ships and sodiers. And sorry, the Klingons arnt the front-line guardians of the alpha quadrant, the federation is. The Klingons didn't HAVE ANY proof that King Gorn was an undine, because Starfleet would want to know why the Klingons attacked the Hegmony and the have the 'Klingon blood was spilled' excuse to keep Gorn space.

    If you are going to discuss the lore of the game I expect you having read The Path to 2409 on its entirety. It is not a very good read, but it is all we have.

    If you would have done so, you would have noticed the hostilities between the Klingon and the Gorn begin due to an unprovoked Gorn attack against the Klingons. This happens in volume five. By volume ten there have already been major battles between the Klingons and the Gorn. The Undine? It isn't until volume sixteen they appear, and it isn't until volume twenty the chancellor is informed about the Undine and the extent of their infiltration. That's when they decide enough is enough.

    They share their information with the Federation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc <- This is the Federation's response.

    Then in volume twenty two Worf, Crusher, Janeway, Chakotay, Dax, and Tuvok all come together to tell the council the Klingons are right and that the Federation should help the Klingons fight the Gorn and the Undine. Who leads the opposition and convinces the council otherwise? A certain Vulcan by the name of Sokketh.

    I'm rolling mah eyes.
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    e8f7a409 wrote: »
    If you are going to discuss the lore of the game I expect you having read The Path to 2409 on its entirety. It is not a very good read, but it is all we have.

    If you would have done so, you would have noticed the hostilities between the Klingon and the Gorn begin due to an unprovoked Gorn attack against the Klingons. This happens in volume five. By volume ten there have already been major battles between the Klingons and the Gorn. The Undine? It isn't until volume sixteen they appear, and it isn't until volume twenty the chancellor is informed about the Undine and the extent of their infiltration. That's when they decide enough is enough.

    They share their information with the Federation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc <- This is the Federation's response.

    Then in volume twenty two Worf, Crusher, Janeway, Chakotay, Dax, and Tuvok all come together to tell the council the Klingons are right and that the Federation should help the Klingons fight the Gorn and the Undine. Who leads the opposition and convinces the council otherwise? A certain Vulcan by the name of Sokketh.

    I'm rolling mah eyes.


    Well im currently re-reading the game lore to make sure I got everthing right, though when a npc discovers in the game on who is an Undine I say "NO FU*KING SH*T!"
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I'd forgotten about that part of Path to 2409.

    But unless I'm mistaken, rather than cooperate with the non-infiltrated group of Starfleet Officers to help purge the Undine presence in Starfleet's upper ranks, the Klingons chose to play right into the Undine's hands.

    They chose to give the Undine what they wanted, which was a war between both sides. They decided to attack innocent civilians on their home colonies who would have had nothing to do with the Undine. A general land-grab instead of pinpoint precision elimination of known Undine Infiltrators.

    Both sides are as bad as each other.
  • icsairgunsicsairguns Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mikoto8472 wrote: »
    I'd forgotten about that part of Path to 2409.

    But unless I'm mistaken, rather than cooperate with the non-infiltrated group of Starfleet Officers to help purge the Undine presence in Starfleet's upper ranks, the Klingons chose to play right into the Undine's hands.

    They chose to give the Undine what they wanted, which was a war between both sides. They decided to attack innocent civilians on their home colonies who would have had nothing to do with the Undine. A general land-grab instead of pinpoint precision elimination of known Undine Infiltrators.

    Both sides are as bad as each other.

    except war is war. and kdf is all about that, total war. not that pin point accuracy stuff. and any history buff knows total war includes civilians, merchants, emergency workers, even politicians. and in many cases those targets will have a greater impact on the enemy than taking out entire divisions of soldiers.

    Just look at Shermans rampage through the south. his targets were not of a military nature and he was hated for it. but it accomplished his total war theory. and destroyed the enemies will to fight. soldiers in the field just wanted the war to end so their homes would be possibly be spared.

    so get off it, civilians are valid targets in war. Hitler knew it when he bombed England and the allies knew it when they bombed most of Europe and Japan.


    and call it a land grab if you like but look at history. maintaing a Military presence in conquered enemy territory is common.

    and as far as giving the Undine what they wanted well it was also what Klingons wanted. warrior race wants war. and in the end they got what they wanted. the feds admitted the Klingons were right and joined in the fight.

    Just the people behind the scenes of this game dont know how to make two separate factions at all and in a time of peace they seem to think that means assimilation. rather than Different.


    We dont have to be at war with each other but we are different. even if the goal may be the same a Klingon will go about it a different way.
    Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days. Ch'ar%20POST%20LoR.JPG


  • edited January 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • e8f7a409e8f7a409 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mikoto8472 wrote: »
    I'd forgotten about that part of Path to 2409.

    But unless I'm mistaken, rather than cooperate with the non-infiltrated group of Starfleet Officers to help purge the Undine presence in Starfleet's upper ranks, the Klingons chose to play right into the Undine's hands.

    They chose to give the Undine what they wanted, which was a war between both sides. They decided to attack innocent civilians on their home colonies who would have had nothing to do with the Undine. A general land-grab instead of pinpoint precision elimination of known Undine Infiltrators.

    Both sides are as bad as each other.

    I believe it was the Federation who did play right into the Undine hands. It all comes back to what I mentioned earlier, the difference between the modern, liberal and humanist, conception of honor and that of feudal societies and their warrior aristocracies.

    It all began with the Gorn launching an unprovoked attack against a Klingon ship, killing over two hundred warriors. For the Klingons this wasn't a political and diplomatic incident but an insult to their honor, the equivalent of walking up to a Klingon warrior and spitting on his face. The Gorn had to be punished, but this punishment couldn't take the form of economic sanctions and a formal apology. They had to conquer Gorn holdings and kill Gorn warriors (and civilians, but that´s a discussion for another time) to recover their virtue as warriors and to remind all those watching that Klingon warriors are to be feared and respected. Otherwise a precedent was set: You can get away with killing and insulting Klingons.

    An insult was also the Federation's attitude to the revelation of Undine infiltration: They basically said even if it is true the Undine are infiltrating the local powers, the Klingons are well known for being rash and violent, and for acting without first considering all options. The Federation basically called them idiots in front of the entire galaxy.

    And also an insult was the Federation's decision to ignore their alliance. While the modern view is that to ignore an oath on moral grounds is the right thing to do, it isn't so on warrior cultures. An oath is an oath and you either fulfill it, kill yourself, or are hunted and killed.

    Again the Klingon Empire is forced to 'take enough heads' for its honor to be fulfilled and its warrior virtue to be proven. They have to show both the Federation and the galaxy what happens when you insult a Klingon, and what happens when you betray a Klingon.

    That's what the Klingons have to do. To do otherwise would be to have no honor and no virtue. The Federation knew it, and still insulted them. It's on them.

    And that's why it makes no sense for Starfleet and the KDF to be freely teaming with each other: The war may have ended, but the Klingons will still remember the insult and the betrayal. For generations they will sing songs about how Starfleet insulted and betrayed them, and about how the heroes of the Empire went and took many feddie heads in return. And for generations they will introduce themselves to Starfleet officers as 'X son of Y, who in the colony of Z took fifty human heads in singular combat.'

    From a Klingon's perspective what the Federation did was worthy of a Romulan. Given how the opinion on Romulans and Remans seems to be changing I wouldn't be surprised if in the coming years 'Human' becomes synonym with treacherous and backstabbing.
Sign In or Register to comment.