at this point you have no way of knowing if your points are not being held in reserve somewhere in the system, it may be when they unlock the extra cap in the update any points you have in reserve will suddenly appear..
Riiight. :P
and at least i am enjoying the game as it is and not complaining about grinding all of the time.
Grinding without any reward is just plain dumb. Every MMO I know gives you at least *something* for it (however lame it may be). Only Cryptic just blackholes your efforts entirely.
I do understand the players who were and are upset about the whole "excess spec points into dilithium" thing, but I honestly don't see it coming back. Besides, it's far too easy to max out your dilithium refining already, why would you want just another way to earn unrefined dilithium?
At the same time, you did earn those XP and deserve to get something for them. Being able to stockpile excess Spec Points, with an option of converting them into something of value (not dil and not Zen, obviously, but perhaps rep marks? rep collectibles? crafting materials? Special DOFFs? I'm seeing a parallel here to the DOFF commendation points, which can be turned in for fleet marks, or rep marks which can be converted into relatively small amounts of dil...), or reserving them for use when future specializations are added, makes sense to me.
\
For the record, I wasn't looking for an extra way to make Dilithium (as things go, filling up an entire Specialization bar, just to get some Dilithium, that's gotta be the most inefficient way to get Dilithium, like ever).
Converting the excess Specialization XP to Fleet marks sounds good. Or just keep 'em reserved. I kinda see it like Unrefined Dilithium, waiting for you to be used: you can only refine 8k a day, but the excess isn't being blackholed. The latter just makes me fill up the next bar, and stop short of completing it, and then not log in any more, lest they rob me of my efforts again. In the words of Bush Sr, Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, erm, still shame on you!
1. Welcome to how it was before DR, when experience points past 50 went into "Expertise", and most players were sitting on millions, all practically useless.
2. From what I understand, the Dil reward was removed because the people who were grinding Tau Dewa the hardest had managed to not only max out their spec trees (in, like, the first week or two of the expansion as you may recall) but were now making a couple of thousand dil per run of a given system - that's every ten minutes, maybe less. That sort of thing has the potential to unbalance the game economy very quickly.
(I know, you either think that would be a good thing, or don't care. Cryptic and PWE have to. It's their job.)
Mind you, that's just what I heard, after the fact. I could well be wrong.
I do understand the players who were and are upset about the whole "excess spec points into dilithium" thing, but I honestly don't see it coming back. Besides, it's far too easy to max out your dilithium refining already, why would you want just another way to earn unrefined dilithium?
At the same time, you did earn those XP and deserve to get something for them. Being able to stockpile excess Spec Points, with an option of converting them into something of value (not dil and not Zen, obviously, but perhaps rep marks? rep collectibles? crafting materials? Special DOFFs? I'm seeing a parallel here to the DOFF commendation points, which can be turned in for fleet marks, or rep marks which can be converted into relatively small amounts of dil...), or reserving them for use when future specializations are added, makes sense to me.
I don't see these kinds of statements often but enough for me to ask the question: its far too easy to max out dilithium refining?
I know there are places like Dyson BZ that players can go to and get some dil provided they are going there every play session. One of my personal peeves with DR is that it took away my ability to do all sorts of content to get dil. Some days I would run stfs. Others maybe a little pvp. Sometimes I would run around finding doff missions to get decent amounts.
It may be "easy" for some to max out the daily dil cap IF you run the same, limited content that actually gives any decent rewards. Ive been playing STO from beta and I put in 1-2 hours a day playing, 4-5 days a week. Sometimes I can play for 3-5 hours and I can tell you its not easy for me to get the refine cap unless I forgo trying to advance my alts in any meaningful way.
Its only easy to hit the cap if a player rns the same content over and over and this is partly why stfs are virtually dead.
I do understand the players who were and are upset about the whole "excess spec points into dilithium" thing, but I honestly don't see it coming back. Besides, it's far too easy to max out your dilithium refining already, why would you want just another way to earn unrefined dilithium?
At the same time, you did earn those XP and deserve to get something for them. Being able to stockpile excess Spec Points, with an option of converting them into something of value (not dil and not Zen, obviously, but perhaps rep marks? rep collectibles? crafting materials? Special DOFFs? I'm seeing a parallel here to the DOFF commendation points, which can be turned in for fleet marks, or rep marks which can be converted into relatively small amounts of dil...), or reserving them for use when future specializations are added, makes sense to me.
I think what they really need is something like this:
A WEEKLY mission.
Awards one spec point OR a decent sized dilithium bundle.
(You can limit this to gold if you want to be guarded about it.)
I'm actually surprised in some ways they made spec points come directly from leveling rather than making them an input with a timed project. They could have, for example, made it so that filling up the bar deposits a "specialization token" in your inventory.
The spec token can be turned in for dilithium, used to launch a weekly project. It could be account bound. Or it could even be tradeable.
They clearly seem to have wanted a hardcap on progress so I don't understand why they didn't just make a hardcap on progress.
Maybe even just a high hardcap like:
1 Spec point project in exchange for a Spec token every 48 hours. (Which means even with close management, you're limited to an average of 3.5 spec levels a week.)
1 "freebie" Spec token a week for gold that is basically "complete any mission", resetting every Sunday. 1 "freebie" Spec token added to the intial rewards for every weekend special event. Maybe additional Spec tokens during events like the anniversary. But getting the extra tokens still requires you to wait 48 hours for each use unless you melt them down into dilithium, which would be a 15 sec project.
For the record, I wasn't looking for an extra way to make Dilithium (as things go, filling up an entire Specialization bar, just to get some Dilithium, that's gotta be the most inefficient way to get Dilithium, like ever).
Converting the excess Specialization XP to Fleet marks sounds good. Or just keep 'em reserved. I kinda see it like Unrefined Dilithium, waiting for you to be used: you can only refine 8k a day, but the excess isn't being blackholed. The latter just makes me fill up the next bar, and stop short of completing it, and then not log in any more, lest they rob me of my efforts again. In the words of Bush Sr, Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, erm, still shame on you!
my previous post that the points may be awarded post hoc may be way off however i did put the alternative that the points might be lost that you kindly edited out in your reply.
having said that i think its sad that the only reason you are happy to play is if you are earning Specialization XP, what about all the other things you get like dil, standard xp, EC, fleet marks, rep marks, crafting mats, gear drops ect, ect, not to mention just good old fashioned fun.
personally you could take all the other stuff away as long as i am getting that 1 last thing i would still gladly play.
in fact it makes me wonder why you ever played before DR launch before we ever started earning Specialization XP.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I don't really get this. I thought that you could only spend the max 60, but any more you earn will go into reserve.
I take it that once you have 60, you can no longer earn any more until the new specialization is added?
That kind of goes against the whole premise of the original idea, tbh....
I think they realized they wanted there to be a max rate you acquired them at but for whatever reason didn't actually design the system to cap out rate of acquisition.
I kind of wish they had though because if they had a hardcap on rate of acquisition (ie. you can only get up to 4 spec points a week) then they could also be more generous with the rate of acquisition.
So that, for instance, you can only get 3 or 4 spec points per week but the first one per week comes easier if you participate in weekend events or if you have a gold sub, etc.
Instead, what we have seems like it makes rate of acquisition punishing AND it has a cap on it, which makes it seem less fair for people who "work" for it. Whereas if they capped RATE of acquisition and made modest progress (ie. 1 a week) seem easier, it wouldn't feel as much like penalizing an earned thing since then people would simply be earning FASTER progress rather than earning ALL of their progress.
I think they realized they wanted there to be a max rate you acquired them at but for whatever reason didn't actually design the system to cap out rate of acquisition.
I kind of wish they had though because if they had a hardcap on rate of acquisition (ie. you can only get up to 4 spec points a week) then they could also be more generous with the rate of acquisition.
So that, for instance, you can only get 3 or 4 spec points per week but the first one per week comes easier if you participate in weekend events or if you have a gold sub, etc.
Instead, what we have seems like it makes rate of acquisition punishing AND it has a cap on it, which makes it seem less fair for people who "work" for it. Whereas if they capped RATE of acquisition and made modest progress (ie. 1 a week) seem easier, it wouldn't feel as much like penalizing an earned thing since then people would simply be earning FASTER progress rather than earning ALL of their progress.
I like this idea. I think the only way they could do it would be to make the spec points like a rep slider or recruitment mission with a 48 hour cooldown - so you could earn 4 in 8 days.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
So that, for instance, you can only get 3 or 4 spec points per week but the first one per week comes easier if you participate in weekend events or if you have a gold sub, etc.
I am against any form of capping. In this case anyway.
An hardcore player who will play 8h/day should have more than the more casual that play 1h/day. Otherwise, why play for nothing ? The hardcore will just spend his time elsewhere.
If he rush the spec tree in a week because he played all days for the entire week, then so be it. Still better than playing for no reward.
1. Welcome to how it was before DR, when experience points past 50 went into "Expertise", and most players were sitting on millions, all practically useless.
This sounds fair enough.
1-Why complain about XP leveling when obviously people are maxing out to a total of 110 in about 3 months post DR? The flaming/throlling for the snail crawl pace of leveling up is obviously flawed and this proves DEVs were NOT wrong after all :eek:
2-As of now I agree they should turn on the switch to expertise points past 110 or 140 (soon to be). If expertise points were good enough for ALL for 4 years why not good anymore. If you are maxed...you are maxed out and time to work on an alternate as we did for the past 4 years before DR. No need to re-invent the system nor create unnecessary flaming with DEVs as proven in point 1.
A new dev blog says that from now on when leveling up you only have a 20% chance to gain a spec point. They felt advancement happend to fast in the past few months. So in order to increase your experience they took appropriate measures.
Of course if you want to advance faster there will be an option to buy a spec point chance increase token for 1000 zen. It will raise your chance for an additional spec point to 40%.
This sounds really like Cryptic game mechanics. Plz avoid to inspire them of new cash grabs.
Just out of curiosity, what have people been doing to max out the spec trees ? 800 times Argala ? Are they being institutionalized now ? Evicted ? Divorced ?
I am against any form of capping. In this case anyway.
An hardcore player who will play 8h/day should have more than the more casual that play 1h/day. Otherwise, why play for nothing ? The hardcore will just spend his time elsewhere.
If he rush the spec tree in a week because he played all days for the entire week, then so be it. Still better than playing for no reward.
I guess, because it's not the hardcore player, who spends the most money. In contrary, it's the whale that wants to be OP without much effort.
1-Why complain about XP leveling when obviously people are maxing out to a total of 110 in about 3 months post DR? The flaming/throlling for the snail crawl pace of leveling up is obviously flawed and this proves DEVs were NOT wrong after all :eek:
2-As of now I agree they should turn on the switch to expertise points past 110 or 140 (soon to be). If expertise points were good enough for ALL for 4 years why not good anymore. If you are maxed...you are maxed out and time to work on an alternate as we did for the past 4 years before DR. No need to re-invent the system nor create unnecessary flaming with DEVs as proven in point 1.
I second this...why the flame when it is proven some can reach the NEW max in less than 3 months. Can I take back my signature "Best Expansion Ever"?....guess I will retire any postings I did in behalf of those complaining about XP leveling was to a hard crawl after post DR....You know Cryptic...Mr EP, Gecko and the rest of the Devs are laughing when they see this thread....I told u so...;) Not worth crying over spilled milk.
I second this...why the flame when it is proven some can reach the NEW max in less than 3 months. Can I take back my signature "Best Expansion Ever"?....guess I will retire any postings I did in behalf of those complaining about XP leveling was to a hard crawl after post DR....You know Cryptic...Mr EP, Gecko and the rest of the Devs are laughing when they see this thread....I told u so...;) Not worth crying over spilled milk.
I leveled Intel and Pilot within the first few weeks. After that I simply stopped caring/XP grinding per se, as I'm not interested in Commando at all.
None of this means XP grinding isn't hard. If you're not doing Argala, endlessly, it will take you forever to get anywhere. The presence of Argala basically just masks the broken state (or 'nerfed' state, rather) of XP gaining.
I leveled Intel and Pilot within the first few weeks. After that I simply stopped caring/XP grinding per se, as I'm not interested in Commando at all.
None of this means XP grinding isn't hard. If you're not doing Argala, endlessly, it will take you forever to get anywhere. The presence of Argala basically just masks the broken state (or 'nerfed' state, rather) of XP gaining.
IMO you can't have it both ways...don't take it personal but I think there was more than "one" player in this thread who said they have already leveled up to maximum.
As per me I'm back to neutral zone and now doubt if what people who say leveling progression is to a "crawl" is an "appropriate" term at all. Even if you only do Argala for 3 months...still doable
Contrary to what I thought, seems tomorrow's patch doesn't include the new boff training and Specializations. So, guess in 1 day or so I won't be able to log in any more, lest they rob me, yet again, of 319k Specialization XP. Brilliant move, Cryptic, this blackholing of XP!
It says you've been playing since about mid 2012. How did you feel about all of that xp you stopped getting at 50, between (let's guess) August 2012 and October 2014? Did you keep playing, even though you weren't getting xp? Were you this upset? Why or why not?
It says you've been playing since about mid 2012. How did you feel about all of that xp you stopped getting at 50, between (let's guess) August 2012 and October 2014? Did you keep playing, even though you weren't getting xp? Were you this upset? Why or why not?
XP after lv 50 was irrelevant, as it converted to general Experience, of which I have like 50 million, and of which I need about 100k a year, LOL.
Specialization points getting blackholed is something entirely else, though: they go towards Specialization points, so voiding them means X times the amount of 158k lost, that I grinded for, and isn't going towards the new Spec points we'll see soon.
Just out of curiosity, what have people been doing to max out the spec trees ? 800 times Argala ? Are they being institutionalized now ? Evicted ? Divorced ?
Lots and lots of grind. Still haven't even filled out intelligence on my main, yet.
This grind isn't so bad, but I can see seeing your 'Specialization points' vanishing is a pain in the TRIBBLE.
Though I played a lot of games out there that required grinding.. to get to the maximum level even though this feels slightly silly.. lol
I haven't touched my Alts since DR was released though... >.>
The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
1-Why complain about XP leveling when obviously people are maxing out to a total of 110 in about 3 months post DR? The flaming/throlling for the snail crawl pace of leveling up is obviously flawed and this proves DEVs were NOT wrong after all :eek:
Maybe some of us don't want the game to force that kind of play time commitment. Just because somebody else is willing to do it doesn't mean I should be willing to or even that this is the best course for Cryptic.
You may find someone who will pay $2000 a glass for lemonade.
That doesn't mean everyone should be willing to or that this is the profit maximizing price. The profit maximizing price may be much, much cheaper.
Requiring a time investment is simply a form of payment.
Maybe some of us don't want the game to force that kind of play time commitment. Just because somebody else is willing to do it doesn't mean I should be willing to or even that this is the best course for Cryptic.
See that's the problem. We don't know what that true "time commitment" is. It is a fact that some were certainly able to max out in a short amount of time. Dont get me wrong and happy for them...heck..now I have something to look forward to
However, it is a proven point from DEVs that is still doable.
The game does not force anyone to "grind"... up to the individual to choose that path as shown by some...or just don't grind and sit idle.
What matters is that is doable and the DEVs/managment notice that one.
Comments
Riiight. :P
Grinding without any reward is just plain dumb. Every MMO I know gives you at least *something* for it (however lame it may be). Only Cryptic just blackholes your efforts entirely.
For the record, I wasn't looking for an extra way to make Dilithium (as things go, filling up an entire Specialization bar, just to get some Dilithium, that's gotta be the most inefficient way to get Dilithium, like ever).
Converting the excess Specialization XP to Fleet marks sounds good. Or just keep 'em reserved. I kinda see it like Unrefined Dilithium, waiting for you to be used: you can only refine 8k a day, but the excess isn't being blackholed. The latter just makes me fill up the next bar, and stop short of completing it, and then not log in any more, lest they rob me of my efforts again. In the words of Bush Sr, Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, erm, still shame on you!
2. From what I understand, the Dil reward was removed because the people who were grinding Tau Dewa the hardest had managed to not only max out their spec trees (in, like, the first week or two of the expansion as you may recall) but were now making a couple of thousand dil per run of a given system - that's every ten minutes, maybe less. That sort of thing has the potential to unbalance the game economy very quickly.
(I know, you either think that would be a good thing, or don't care. Cryptic and PWE have to. It's their job.)
Mind you, that's just what I heard, after the fact. I could well be wrong.
I don't see these kinds of statements often but enough for me to ask the question: its far too easy to max out dilithium refining?
I know there are places like Dyson BZ that players can go to and get some dil provided they are going there every play session. One of my personal peeves with DR is that it took away my ability to do all sorts of content to get dil. Some days I would run stfs. Others maybe a little pvp. Sometimes I would run around finding doff missions to get decent amounts.
It may be "easy" for some to max out the daily dil cap IF you run the same, limited content that actually gives any decent rewards. Ive been playing STO from beta and I put in 1-2 hours a day playing, 4-5 days a week. Sometimes I can play for 3-5 hours and I can tell you its not easy for me to get the refine cap unless I forgo trying to advance my alts in any meaningful way.
Its only easy to hit the cap if a player rns the same content over and over and this is partly why stfs are virtually dead.
I think what they really need is something like this:
A WEEKLY mission.
Awards one spec point OR a decent sized dilithium bundle.
(You can limit this to gold if you want to be guarded about it.)
I'm actually surprised in some ways they made spec points come directly from leveling rather than making them an input with a timed project. They could have, for example, made it so that filling up the bar deposits a "specialization token" in your inventory.
The spec token can be turned in for dilithium, used to launch a weekly project. It could be account bound. Or it could even be tradeable.
They clearly seem to have wanted a hardcap on progress so I don't understand why they didn't just make a hardcap on progress.
Maybe even just a high hardcap like:
1 Spec point project in exchange for a Spec token every 48 hours. (Which means even with close management, you're limited to an average of 3.5 spec levels a week.)
1 "freebie" Spec token a week for gold that is basically "complete any mission", resetting every Sunday. 1 "freebie" Spec token added to the intial rewards for every weekend special event. Maybe additional Spec tokens during events like the anniversary. But getting the extra tokens still requires you to wait 48 hours for each use unless you melt them down into dilithium, which would be a 15 sec project.
my previous post that the points may be awarded post hoc may be way off however i did put the alternative that the points might be lost that you kindly edited out in your reply.
having said that i think its sad that the only reason you are happy to play is if you are earning Specialization XP, what about all the other things you get like dil, standard xp, EC, fleet marks, rep marks, crafting mats, gear drops ect, ect, not to mention just good old fashioned fun.
personally you could take all the other stuff away as long as i am getting that 1 last thing i would still gladly play.
in fact it makes me wonder why you ever played before DR launch before we ever started earning Specialization XP.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I'm curious what goes on behind the scenes here, since the text implies it deducts twice the SP as we earn. Are we into negative SP totals by now? :P
As I discovered when I, too, hit "level 110," our characters are like Patrick Stewart or Sean Connery. Once we hit max level, we're done.
SP-for-dil ain't coming back.
I take it that once you have 60, you can no longer earn any more until the new specialization is added?
That kind of goes against the whole premise of the original idea, tbh....
I think they realized they wanted there to be a max rate you acquired them at but for whatever reason didn't actually design the system to cap out rate of acquisition.
I kind of wish they had though because if they had a hardcap on rate of acquisition (ie. you can only get up to 4 spec points a week) then they could also be more generous with the rate of acquisition.
So that, for instance, you can only get 3 or 4 spec points per week but the first one per week comes easier if you participate in weekend events or if you have a gold sub, etc.
Instead, what we have seems like it makes rate of acquisition punishing AND it has a cap on it, which makes it seem less fair for people who "work" for it. Whereas if they capped RATE of acquisition and made modest progress (ie. 1 a week) seem easier, it wouldn't feel as much like penalizing an earned thing since then people would simply be earning FASTER progress rather than earning ALL of their progress.
I like this idea. I think the only way they could do it would be to make the spec points like a rep slider or recruitment mission with a 48 hour cooldown - so you could earn 4 in 8 days.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
An hardcore player who will play 8h/day should have more than the more casual that play 1h/day. Otherwise, why play for nothing ? The hardcore will just spend his time elsewhere.
If he rush the spec tree in a week because he played all days for the entire week, then so be it. Still better than playing for no reward.
This sounds fair enough.
1-Why complain about XP leveling when obviously people are maxing out to a total of 110 in about 3 months post DR? The flaming/throlling for the snail crawl pace of leveling up is obviously flawed and this proves DEVs were NOT wrong after all :eek:
2-As of now I agree they should turn on the switch to expertise points past 110 or 140 (soon to be). If expertise points were good enough for ALL for 4 years why not good anymore. If you are maxed...you are maxed out and time to work on an alternate as we did for the past 4 years before DR. No need to re-invent the system nor create unnecessary flaming with DEVs as proven in point 1.
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
I guess, because it's not the hardcore player, who spends the most money. In contrary, it's the whale that wants to be OP without much effort.
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
I second this...why the flame when it is proven some can reach the NEW max in less than 3 months. Can I take back my signature "Best Expansion Ever"?....guess I will retire any postings I did in behalf of those complaining about XP leveling was to a hard crawl after post DR....You know Cryptic...Mr EP, Gecko and the rest of the Devs are laughing when they see this thread....I told u so...;) Not worth crying over spilled milk.
I leveled Intel and Pilot within the first few weeks. After that I simply stopped caring/XP grinding per se, as I'm not interested in Commando at all.
None of this means XP grinding isn't hard. If you're not doing Argala, endlessly, it will take you forever to get anywhere. The presence of Argala basically just masks the broken state (or 'nerfed' state, rather) of XP gaining.
IMO you can't have it both ways...don't take it personal but I think there was more than "one" player in this thread who said they have already leveled up to maximum.
As per me I'm back to neutral zone and now doubt if what people who say leveling progression is to a "crawl" is an "appropriate" term at all. Even if you only do Argala for 3 months...still doable
Wheres STO?
I havent seen it since dilithium rising was introduced
XP after lv 50 was irrelevant, as it converted to general Experience, of which I have like 50 million, and of which I need about 100k a year, LOL.
Specialization points getting blackholed is something entirely else, though: they go towards Specialization points, so voiding them means X times the amount of 158k lost, that I grinded for, and isn't going towards the new Spec points we'll see soon.
Lots and lots of grind. Still haven't even filled out intelligence on my main, yet.
As for my alts, they are sol....
Though I played a lot of games out there that required grinding.. to get to the maximum level even though this feels slightly silly.. lol
I haven't touched my Alts since DR was released though... >.>
Maybe some of us don't want the game to force that kind of play time commitment. Just because somebody else is willing to do it doesn't mean I should be willing to or even that this is the best course for Cryptic.
You may find someone who will pay $2000 a glass for lemonade.
That doesn't mean everyone should be willing to or that this is the profit maximizing price. The profit maximizing price may be much, much cheaper.
Requiring a time investment is simply a form of payment.
See that's the problem. We don't know what that true "time commitment" is. It is a fact that some were certainly able to max out in a short amount of time. Dont get me wrong and happy for them...heck..now I have something to look forward to
However, it is a proven point from DEVs that is still doable.
The game does not force anyone to "grind"... up to the individual to choose that path as shown by some...or just don't grind and sit idle.
What matters is that is doable and the DEVs/managment notice that one.