T5-FU Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey

alcyoneserene

I'd like to confirm this ship is possible to acquire from someone who already has it, and it won't bug out trying to acquire it, or that the wiki entry is misleading.

It's something I'm considering for the next C-store sale, if there's nothing new that comes out and looks more intriguing (of any faction).

So the list:

- buy the 1,000 zen T3 Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey.

- buy T3 Norgh Bird-of-Prey (40,000 Dilithium) - unless this can be covered by a free leveling up-upgrade token (in which case I'd have to check my KDF if they got it or not while leveling up).

- get 1 fleet ship token - confirmation whether owning the Norgh discounts the 4 fleet modules to 1

- 20,000 fleet marks, and upgrade a fleet shipyard to Tier 3, and usage of 1 military ship provision.

- choose the Ning'tao skin on the Fleet Norgh "This costume is only accessible by purchasing the Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey"-sto.gamepedia

- then use a T5U upgrade which according to the upgradable-fleet-ships-list results in a +1 tac console.

So the end result, if someone can confirm those steps to actually work, compared to a T6 Mat'Ha Raptor (non-fleet):

T5-FU Ning'tao | T6 Mat'Ha

tac . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 | 5
eng . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 | 3
sci . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 | 2
fore weapons . . . . . . . 4 | 5
aft. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 | 2
hull . . . . . . . . . . . 27,225 | 44,000
shield mod . . . . . . . 0.88 | 0.85
crew . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 | 200
BOFF stations . .4 non-intel | 5 with hybrid-intel
Abilities . . . . .battle cloak & quad-cannons | cloak & heavy disruptor nose cannon & overwhelming force traits
bonus power (weapons) . . +15 | +15
impulse mod . . . . . . . 0.2 | 0.2
inertia rating . . . . . . . .70 | 75
turn rate . . . . . . . . . 70 | 75
Total Cost . . . 1,250 Zen + 1 FM | 3,000 Zen

Are the Disruptor Quad-Cannons at all useful, or are they obsolete in favor of the CrtDx4 crafted ones?

Will such a ship be at all usable, given the lower shield and hull which is already 7,975 short of the Faeht's that already feels paper-thin? I mean, could it fly with mk xii very rares (I still refuse to upgrade even if I had the resources across the toons and ships and gear, which I do not) CCA and not be insta-gibbed? Or should I auto-retire it to playing solo missions on advanced in some distant dark corner of the galaxy?

An intel T6 Ning'tao class variant with the ability to use its old skin would solve all of that, and I'd definitely buy one.

narthais

There is not module discount on the norgh Im afraid, only fleet ships that have a T5 C-store variant apply for the discount. the rest of your steps are right though.

zeuxidemus001

narthais wrote: »

There is not module discount on the norgh Im afraid, only fleet ships that have a T5 C-store variant apply for the discount. the rest of your steps are right though.

Yeah the rule of thumb for discounts is it has to be a fleet version of a T5 or T6 in the future retrofits. Which is why 2015 is transparent on the content we will be getting because they are gonna add another holding this year where its going to have some of the fleet versions of the T6 ships and they are gonna drag that on through the whole year.

As far as the c-store ships we do have some like that low tier bop that came out in lor that has a costume that works on the c-store brel but if you buy a fleet brel that costume won't work on it and is coming up on lets say way too long for them to have integrity on making this game somewhat playable.

alcyoneserene

That makes it 800 zen (at 20% off) plus at least 50 Mil EC for those 4 fleet ship modules and 1 upgrade token, for an overall cost that's practically comparable to ships that leave it in the dust.

How sad, for such an awesome ship. I guess I've joined the long line of players who want to use older ships but can't, probably cause PWE's metrics don't want our 'pocket change' when they can release lottery box dreadnoughts and upgrading-numbers games.

On the 'bright side', the feds got a T6 intrepid with an interior too. Maybe our KDFs will too, someday...................... right...........?

Thanks for the clarifications.

narthais

The T5-U Fleet Norgh, while not quite on par with the new T6 ships of course is still quite a capable vessel with the addition of the Raider mastery skills. its arguably the best of the Birds of Prey at the moment. its still quite capable of doing most of the content in the game unless you're desperate for the elite PVE queues.

zeuxidemus001

alcyoneserene wrote: »

That makes it 800 zen (at 20% off) plus at least 50 Mil EC for those 4 fleet ship modules and 1 upgrade token, for an overall cost that's practically comparable to ships that leave it in the dust.

How sad, for such an awesome ship. I guess I've joined the long line of players who want to use older ships but can't, probably cause PWE's metrics don't want our 'pocket change' when they can release lottery box dreadnoughts and upgrading-numbers games.

On the 'bright side', the feds got a T6 intrepid with an interior too. Maybe our KDFs will too, someday...................... right...........?

Thanks for the clarifications.

Welcome to the KDF We are the minority the 18% but we win majority on the basis of being screwed over by Cryptic lol.

royalsovereign

I went this route myself recently (except I haven't sprung for the T5U upgrade for my fleet 'ning-tao' yet). Not the most cost-efficient purchase, but given that all the zen I spent was exchanged from dil, not bought, and I bought the ning'tao during the ship sale, and I had plenty of EC banked, it 'felt' like a freebie. So far I've enjoyed using it. Like any raider if you get CF'd you die, and right fast. But it packs a good punch.

warmaker001b

Main thing is OP: What kind of gameplay are you trying to look for?

For raw DPS, the Mat'ha smoke checks many ships out there, including the T5U Fleet Norgh. It's also sturdier.

The only things really going for the T5U Fleet Norgh:
- All Universal Stations
- Good maneuverability
- Half-assed "Raider Flanking Bonus"
- Battle Cloak

Also remember that the Mat'ha at T6 also has some access to Intel abilities for more enhancements. EPTW3 and OSS is quite doable on this beast. Not to mention purchase of the Mat'ha C-Store ship will make it cheaper to acquire the Fleet version whenever Cryptic decides to implement Fleet T6 variants.

Speaking of "Flanking" a minor version can be attained if you have the right boxes in Intel Specialization. It stacks with the BOP's Flanking Bonus. It also works just fine with any Non-Raider, so a Buzzsaw like a Mat'ha can flank.

In short, the T5U Fleet Norgh, though still a very nice ship, just does not match the Mat'ha in pure firepower. The Mat'ha also gives you room for growth with a Fleet version to come, while what you see with a T5U Fleet Norgh is all you'll ever see. The latter is just dead end development.

revanindustries

The Norgh also has the advantage that it is a BoP, which makes it that much cooler. Also it gets a slightly better bump in he Flanking tree of the Intel Spec because it stacks with the native flanking (still not enough to outcompete the Mat'hahaha though). Here's hoping that we will get a T6 BoP at some time in the future.

warmaker001b

Oh, and BTW... The Quad Disruptors are trash. Too many useless [Dmg] mods. Those mods are the 2nd worse mods in the game. The only thing worse than [Dmg] mods are any of the PvP mods. And the Quad Disruptors have 4 of these [Dmg] mods.

zeuxidemus001

patrickngo wrote: »

I dunno...for farming, you don't need (ACC) and with the right layout you can boost your criticals pretty nicely. (Crit consoles from the Fleet Spire, the right deflector/shield/engines, etc.)

It's just not much use for anythign NOT farming.

Yeah they aren't useless its just that most people do what others are doing and don't know how to position themselves when engaging in battle/combat. Positioning is key especially when you are trying to make the most of the cloak ambush mechanic.

One tactic when using a bop that those quad cannons are perfect for is the high engine power tactic. Using that to your advantage so that you are pretty much hard to hit but not fly past your target too fast the drain of engine power works to your benefit in this regard. The other factor is people always go off on a rant about how accuracy is so great but when you are doing sneak attacks accuracy and crit damage are the same thing at such close range that it doesn't even matter. Sure people will debate this but its a matter of how the game mechanics work so its fact not fiction

noroblad

the norgh is a great ship, but I really can't recommend it as a purchase right now. By the time you buy an upgrade token for it, the value spent is close to a t6 ship.

The maha is better. Flanking damage is obscene, but its difficult to flank most targets enough of a % of the time to get competitive dps. And the breen is a higher dps raider, giving up a little in officer flexibility and stealth but gaining the coveted 5th tac console, and the breen is free, and the upgrade to the breen is free. The kazon is also good but the ship is cheap, the upgrade is not free, and both the norgh and breen outperform it (slightly) for various reasons.

The MIRROR BOP is almost as good as the norgh. Not quite, since it can't get the t5u package, and the officers a little weaker, but its not as far behind as you might think.

But at the end of the day, the maha delivers punishment from every angle, in spades. The norgh and other raiders can only get close to those numbers from behind, and in my experience, with a decent pilot (pat self on back) 25% of your shots flanking is doing *good*. Its not enough to compete if your goal is top dps.

So my advice is multi-tiered, but here you go...
-- if the shoot it and kill it brute force of the maha appeals to you, look no further.
-- if you want to enjoy a raider, use a cheaper/free one like breen, mirror, or kazon and wait for the t6 BOP release (this might be a long wait).
-- if you don't want to wait, at least test drive the mirror BOP before you spend on the norgh. Be sure you want to invest. If you still want it, and you want it now, go for it... its a fine ship, just be sure you really, really know what it IS before you buy it so you won't have any buyer's remorse later. This is extra true if you have not flown a level 50+ BOP or raider before.

alcyoneserene

Lots of great advice, much appreciated.

One of the most fun times I remember was while leveling up the Orion during xp boost before DR launch in a free BoP, attempting a mission optional (warrior's test, ship endurance, can't remember..) that was a few levels above. Destroyed a few rounds of ships after exploding so much the ship had to be towed back for repairs, only to give up thinking there was no end to the incoming enemies. Frustrating cloaking away at a hairline from destruction and waiting for cool-downs and repairs just long enough so NPC wouldn't heal, but ..glorious for a battle.

If I lose patience waiting for a T6 BoP, I'll just go for it at full price, after some more grinding. The quad disruptors drawing off engine power, plus flank and battle cloak sounds like a nice challenge and completely different playing style unlike what other ships or factions provide, plus it looks awesome.