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On the interestingness (for lack of a better word) of species.
worffan101
Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
Every Trekkie likes some of Trek's many species more than others. Let's see your top and bottom three!
My top three:
1. Klingons. Fleshed-out culture, a whole dictionary to learn their language, Klingon translations of 2 Shakespeare plays and 1 Sumerian epic, rich history across all four shows and a bit in that terrible excuse for a show with the magic reset button...Klingons are awesome. It doesn't hurt that one of my favorite characters, Worf, is a Klingon.
2. Romulans. They're awesome. Passionate, honorable, yet oh so human...plus my main's a Romulan, and they have the coolest ships. Only their relative lack of development in terms of language and culture in TV canon keeps them from the top spot.
3. Ferengi. God, I love 'em. Quark, Nog, Rom, Brunt, that awesome badass assassin guy...there are so MANY Ferengi, all of them hilarious and awesome in their own individual ways, and Quark is a master of playing his ethnic stereotype for both laughs and awesome. Plus, the makeup's awesome.
Honorable mentions: Jem'Hadar, Vorta, Vidiians.
My bottom three:
1 (the Spot of Shame). Those racist caricatures from TNG: Code of Honor. No, seriously, that episode was the most awful racist garbage I've ever seen. I can find no redeeming features at all about the episode or its subjects.
2. The Kazon. Vaguely racist (especially in Alliances), offensively misogynistic, hideously ugly, obvious bad attempts at ripping off the Klingons, and unbelievably stupid; remember, these fools killed themselves with a REPLICATOR. And every single time they showed up they showed some new form of abject idiocy. I would not recommend the Kazon to my worst enemy. They aren't even threatening; hell, even the BORG don't want 'em, and the Borg take TALAXIANS.
In a nutshell, probably the most epic fail ever of any attempt to capitalize upon and duplicate the success of the Klingons. And I've seen quite a few of those.
3. Talaxians. This is more of a "disappointed with how they were portrayed" thing; going solely from the information in VOY: Jetrel, there could have been a lot done with them despite the horrible costume design. However, the writers of VOY and DR seem to have gone out of their way to portray the Talaxians as a species of drunk, lazy, incompetent, lying stoners. It's such a waste that I cannot feel compassion for them, and in fact I cheer when they are injured or killed. If the intent was to make some Always Chaotic Evil Orcs, this would be a good thing...but since the Talaxians are supposed to be Space Hippies who love everyone, epic fail.
On top of that, the whole species is unrealistic. This is a race of stoners; how did THEY develop warp drive? They have no concept of malice (although at least one member of the species, Neelix, shows malicious and even psychopathic behavior regularly), how have they not been chewed up and spat out by every single species they've ever met? A cataclysmic failure of an attempt to CREATE a Quark instead of letting it happen naturally.
Runners-up: The Ocampa, for biological implausibility; those ladies who tried to go all succubus on Harry Kim, for biological implausibility and blatant sexism, as well as having Harry be Ensign Stupid in that episode; and ENT-era Humans, for acting like they were the most perfect things ever to encounter the universe.
Anybody else really like some species? Anyone supremely disappointed by others?
My top three:
1. Klingons. Fleshed-out culture, a whole dictionary to learn their language, Klingon translations of 2 Shakespeare plays and 1 Sumerian epic, rich history across all four shows and a bit in that terrible excuse for a show with the magic reset button...Klingons are awesome. It doesn't hurt that one of my favorite characters, Worf, is a Klingon.
2. Romulans. They're awesome. Passionate, honorable, yet oh so human...plus my main's a Romulan, and they have the coolest ships. Only their relative lack of development in terms of language and culture in TV canon keeps them from the top spot.
3. Ferengi. God, I love 'em. Quark, Nog, Rom, Brunt, that awesome badass assassin guy...there are so MANY Ferengi, all of them hilarious and awesome in their own individual ways, and Quark is a master of playing his ethnic stereotype for both laughs and awesome. Plus, the makeup's awesome.
Honorable mentions: Jem'Hadar, Vorta, Vidiians.
My bottom three:
1 (the Spot of Shame). Those racist caricatures from TNG: Code of Honor. No, seriously, that episode was the most awful racist garbage I've ever seen. I can find no redeeming features at all about the episode or its subjects.
2. The Kazon. Vaguely racist (especially in Alliances), offensively misogynistic, hideously ugly, obvious bad attempts at ripping off the Klingons, and unbelievably stupid; remember, these fools killed themselves with a REPLICATOR. And every single time they showed up they showed some new form of abject idiocy. I would not recommend the Kazon to my worst enemy. They aren't even threatening; hell, even the BORG don't want 'em, and the Borg take TALAXIANS.
In a nutshell, probably the most epic fail ever of any attempt to capitalize upon and duplicate the success of the Klingons. And I've seen quite a few of those.
3. Talaxians. This is more of a "disappointed with how they were portrayed" thing; going solely from the information in VOY: Jetrel, there could have been a lot done with them despite the horrible costume design. However, the writers of VOY and DR seem to have gone out of their way to portray the Talaxians as a species of drunk, lazy, incompetent, lying stoners. It's such a waste that I cannot feel compassion for them, and in fact I cheer when they are injured or killed. If the intent was to make some Always Chaotic Evil Orcs, this would be a good thing...but since the Talaxians are supposed to be Space Hippies who love everyone, epic fail.
On top of that, the whole species is unrealistic. This is a race of stoners; how did THEY develop warp drive? They have no concept of malice (although at least one member of the species, Neelix, shows malicious and even psychopathic behavior regularly), how have they not been chewed up and spat out by every single species they've ever met? A cataclysmic failure of an attempt to CREATE a Quark instead of letting it happen naturally.
Runners-up: The Ocampa, for biological implausibility; those ladies who tried to go all succubus on Harry Kim, for biological implausibility and blatant sexism, as well as having Harry be Ensign Stupid in that episode; and ENT-era Humans, for acting like they were the most perfect things ever to encounter the universe.
Anybody else really like some species? Anyone supremely disappointed by others?
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Also Klingons. I love their internal conflict of the false egotistical/hubristic honor with true moral and ethical honor and courage. I also enjoy those sto missions (like the feklhri arc) where this theme comes up.
I also like how the tellarites were described in enterprise. Loving an argument and insulting and respecting being insulted. They were fun, didn't get handled universally this way though, which was a shame.
Least favorite: every supposedly enlightened entity (Apollo, Gary Mitchell, q, organians, etc) that has not a single saintly quality in common with examples of enlightened beings from history (Krishna, Buddha, etc). Oh look, yet another pompous narcissist enslaved by its ego, easily provoked to anger, full of suppressed fear (hence the anger), and unable to delay gratification. Checks Hindu/Buddhist definition of enlightenment "freedom from ego"... Hmmmm. Also, none of them exhibit anything remotely close to an understanding of power I'd expect of an entity operating as a type 3 or 4 on the kardashev scale. They still function on the scale of planets and continents, not clusters of galaxies, much less super clusters. Omnipotent? Hardly.
Vulcans
Cardassians
Bolians
Bottom:
Caitians
Bajorans
Pakleds
Romulans. Passionate. Honourable. Devious. They strike a perfect balance of enemies and friends. You can trust a Romulan not to be trustworthy, and yet, many of them showed they could be. Plus, I love the design of their ships and captial city on Romulus. And Ron Jones gave them a truly epic theme for TNG. Shame it was never heard again after he left.
Dominion. I know it is actually 3 species, but each one has their own fleshed out culture and story. Reasons for doing what they do. The Founders, who have seen the horrible attitudes of solids and chose to ensure they would never have to endure such hardships again. The Vorta, who were simple creatures living in a forest, took pity on a strange creature and became 2IC of a galactic empire with enhanced genetic abilities for rewards. Is it any wonder they view the Founders as gods and worship them so? And the jem hadar. A genetically engineered species bred for war who also warship the Founders as gods, but hate the Vorta who they must report to. And unlike the vorta who worship freely, the Jem Hadar worship is implanted in them. Not to mention their drug addiction, all of which comes to a wonderfully fleshed out culture of honour. At first viewed as faceless killing machines, we learnt alot about them. On their own, I don't think any of the 3 would have worked as well as they did as a cohesive trinity.
Andorians. Thank you Shran and Enterprise. I cared nothing for the blue guys until that series turned up, and made them one of my favourites.
Honourable mention to TNG era Borg (when they were actually an unstoppable force of nature, oh how I wish they had maintained the original intent of being an evil version of the Federation, instead of wanting a quest for perfection) and the Horta for showing something truly alien can still be so human.
Guys I don't like, again in no particular order:
Klingons. Specifically, TNG era Klingons. Enterprise and TOS era Klingons (including the TOS movies) I like, but TNG and especially into DS9, they just became characatures of themselves. Vikings in space essentially, and I just got bored with the endless prattle of honour. They didn't do anything for me. Gowron and Martok being the exceptions, whom I actually love as those two went against the stereotype and were actually interesting characters. And the guys who play them are awesome in real life to boot.
Kazon. Just...... no. You have starships. Why are you stuck for water? Fly to another planet and find some. It's star trek, not BSG, there are plenty of planets around with water.
I'm having trouble coming up with a 3rd who I really hate. Probably someone from Voyager, it's been a long time since I saw that series. I can't even say Vosk the space TRIBBLE from Enterprise because as nonsensical as his episodes were as a big FU to Manny Coto (at least that's what it felt like), Vosk himself was well done.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Ooh, now you will face the wrath of ashkrik and catstar!
Though to be fair, yeah, aliens that are just bipedal earth creatures are pretty lazy.
Indeed, some consider the Ferengi to be the worst example of the three, as they were originally supposed to be the main villains of TNG and the reason why the Klingons allied with the Federation. Only after "The Last Outpost" did Gene Roddenberry et al realize the Ferengi just weren't going to cut it as uber-villains, so they went back to the drawing board, bringing back the Romulans before finally coming up with a worthy uber-villain civilization the following season with the Borg.
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Top
1) Romulans. Whenever Romulans are involved, there is simply no way to predict what will happen. Their Empire is extremely interesting to follow throughout the series, their warbirds look epic, and they are just plain awesome.
2) Cardassians. The Cardassians as a normal species are okayish I'd say, not that special, interesting. What makes them great are their major characters. Garak, Dukat, Damar, Madred. All of them epic from the beginning (except Damar, but he made up for it). Their epic talent for talking, taking action and the excellent acting of their actors really alleviates the species as a whole. Next to that, they can be so much like Romulans every now and then.
3) Dominion. Like mentioned above, actually 3 species, but it is their part-of-a-whole that makes them work so great. To really understand the Jem'Hadar, you need to have Vorta, who cannot be their way (apart from their creation) without the Founders, who in turn rely on their species. It all works out so perfectly.
Bottom
1) Human Lizards. AKA the offspring of Janeway and Paris. The horrible event that was Threshold. Although I admit that I did miss any reference to them in DR (just imagine visiting that planet again.... xD), all that they represent makes me want to puke.
2) Ba'ku. Dang, those people are BOOOORIIIIIIIIIING. There really is nothing else to say about them. Just, plain and simple, they are boring.
3) The Preservers, or whatever they are called in the show. Although that episode was well-made, especially with that Klingon going full rampant on that planet, the unispecies from which all others came, that idea was something I really hate. I felt it was a cheap trick to justify humanoids instead of more Tholian-like aliens, it went against my headcanon, and it goes against my beliefs outside of Star Trek. Nothing wrong with their execution, but their very existence is something I cannot stand.
And I did not even put Kazon in this list, because honestly, as bad-executed klingon ripoff as they were, Voyager threw lots and lots of worse things against us. Like the Voyaborg. Or the.... don't get me started xD
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A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I can't say I'm surprised. They are kind of forgettable xD
And to be honest, the So'na indeed should have wiped them out.
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Black man sees white woman, kidnaps her to marry her against her will, white woman is seen as super hot by black dudes and has to fight jealous black woman TO THE DEEEEEAAAATH?
You don't see the racism there?
The numbskull responsible for that piece of TRIBBLE tried it again in SG1, but made all the black people Asian and had the white woman traded around as a slave on top of it. It was just as disgusting if not more so.
All I saw was a person fighting against the random villains of the week. Who cares what color they were? I think this is just overreacting.
It's not quite as insipid as Tattoo saying that an entire actual human race was unspeaking animals before being touched by the magic white man from the sky, but to fail to see why enough people threatened to quit that the writer was thrown out to save the show is either being blind or ignorant to a major historical conflict that's still going on today.
2. Jem'Hadar. They have a strict code of honor and are willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. They have the ability to turn invisible and can go on forever without food or sleep as long as they have white. To me they were even more badass than klingons. Omet'iklan was great too with an honorable mention to Ikat'tika.
3. Klingons. They have honor and are one big motercycle gang in space:P. The only thing that irks me about them is the fact that they even developed warp drive and interstellar travel at all. Yes, I know they may have gotten the technology from the Her'q but Klingons totally lack the mindset to want to become scientists and engineers to reverse engineer advanced technology and understand it. Worf is just great though.
4. Romulans. They have awsome ships.
5. Pakleds. "We look for things. Things that make us go." They give me a good laugh.
6. Lurians. I like them because Morn.
Worst-
1. Talaxians. ^see all the things worffan said about them^.
2. Kazon. ^see what worffan said^
Well, it's important that many things that white people don't consider to be racial issues, are racial issues--especially from the perspective of African-Americans.
Really, it makes sense; if your ancestors were kidnapped, enslaved, r*ped, abused, forced to breed, and generally treated like cattle for multiple centuries, and then when they were freed they were subject to systematic abuse, dehumanization, disenfranchisement, and generalized mistreatment for over a century more, would you really not see most issues as racial issues after only 50 years of what the people who abused your ancestors call fair treatment, for reals this time?
Also, may I direct you to that awful racist KKK movie? Birth of a Nation, I think it was? Let me just repurpose your quote: People did, in fact say things like that when that movie was first shown. Then a bunch of white guys went out and killed black people in drunken rages, and said that they did it because they had seen that movie.
You're basically saying that because it's fiction, it doesn't matter, when this is manifestly untrue.
For more information.
Which I recall is the same argument askray made when that jackass from Dental tried to get us to make a genocide simulator in the Foundry. I seem to recall you being among the ones calling bull on the argument that time, ashkrik.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Its exactly that kind of thing that made me dislike the ds9 era Klingons. As that Klingon laywer said to archer, not everyone dreams of fighting with swords. His battlefield was the courtroom. Then there was the scientist with the augment disease. There are plenty of Klingons who can reverse engineer things and develop tech, we just never got to see any outside tos and enterprise.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
That is a different scenario. You are trying to compare genocide to random people fighting in a rink in a TV show.
Also, the KKK movie was another completely different scenario that was obviously aimed at promoting hatred against the black community. You are trying to compare an obvious hate crime to a TV show with random people in it.
I doubt people would have pulled the race card if the people had been white, Mexican, Spanish, Asian, etc, in Code of Honor.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
They sure as hell did when Katharyn Powers reused the script with Mongols for Stargate SG-1. Not to mention the sexism card.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Klingons, Talaxians, and Vorta top my list for interesting and favorite aliens in Trek.
Orions, Bajorans, and Caitians are at the bottom.
For the record, I agree with worffan about the horrible "Code of Honor". It was obviously rife with racist overtones, and not handled at all well by the writers and directors responsible for getting it on the air.
We know that Trek can deal with social issues and even comment on them in positive ways. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" anyone?
But Code of Honor was not that.
You disappoint me, Hippie. Lol.
LOL
I figured as much, Ash.
For me, with Caitians , it's the "take and earth creature and make it bipedal and intelligent" aspect of the race that someone mentioned earlier.
Just seems lazy.
Always been something that bothered me in various Sci Fi.
i cant see that aspect of it, it appeared to be a cultural misunderstanding, one persons own belief or a code of honor is challenged by another.
but the overall tone of that episode related to sexism and more specifically objectification then anything else.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
3) Romulans: Onscreen there was a lot of missed potential but if you count the Diane Duane material as canon, which STO at least partially does, they become an extremely interesting society--and to be honest, if they had not turned to expansionistic, warlike ways towards other species, I would have considered them to be completely in the right to oppose Surak as they did.
Least favorite:
3) Any offensive caricature species. Examples include Ligonians and Pakled (though I was at least able to rehabilitate the latter and throw some egg in the Feddies' faces at the same time for missing a major piece of information about how fundamentally different the species really is) and the early Ferengi.
2) Humans. It's no accident that--in addition to feeling that the demographics we saw on the show are way off for an organization that supposedly has hundreds of members--I prefer to write nonhumans and those who associate with them, in my fanfics. Trek humanity by the THG era, except for DS9, is utterly bland and unrealistic, with Picard as the epitome of all that I despise the most. To think that the flawed/sinful nature of humanity can be erased, and that we will not simply find new sins and better ways to hide our old ones is utterly arrogant. (Not to mention that to get the society they have, it *cannot* be as sustainable as they think it is and additionally there has to be a disastrous hidden cost that they are not honest about.). Trek humanity is sanctimonious and arrogant...and truth be told, I find that despite their biology, the Cardassians and Bajorans are each far more human than Trek's humanity is. Worst of all, because they are so dishonest about their flaws and sins, humanity has very little potential to change or improve itself, despite what they claim.
I would believe Cardassia growing and changing (and at least in STO they are trying) than I would believe humanity doing so.
1) Klingons. This top position is due to the sheer amount of wasted potential and one-dimensionality that happened starting in TNG. Star Trek VI was IMO the last time we ever saw anything truly deep from the Klingons. We had the potential for it in TOS--but once they got reduced to blatant Vikings In Space, it ruined them as a species. I am also of the mind now that while Cartwright went about it entirely the wrong way, the Federation DID miss a huge opportunity to bring an end once and for all to their empire and to their conquests. They should never have been allowed to continue subjugating other species and stand as Federation allies. (And let's not even get into the believability problems of TNG's Klingons even getting into space, whereas I CAN believe it of the TOS ones).
Oh...and the Klingons also took down Jadzia Dax with them. (Though I also blame that one on Curzon's personality selfishly reliving its life through her. No wonder Ezri was so scared after joining--she had Joran AND Curzon to deal with, and I am not sure Curzon was as far superior to Joran as you would think.)
IMO John M. Ford, author of The Final Reflection, should have been allowed to drive the development of Klingon culture--he does a far more believable and fleshed-out job of it. We get a culture that shows appreciation for science and intellect as well as being warriors...not just giving lip service to it but really, convincingly doing so. They are as cunning as they are powerful--intellectual and not just knuckle draggers.
In a lot of ways, their torch was passed from TOS to TNG to the Cardassians. The Cardassians have a lot of the traits of the TOS/John M. Ford Klingons and the politics were also handled in DS9 in a way that forced harder evaluation of the consequences.
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Klingons, for instance, can't be the one-dimensional space bikers we saw in TNG. That race would have been eaten by stormwalkers before they even got around to discovering fire, because running away would have been "dishonorable". So I want to explore the other 75% or so of them - the Klingons who find their honor in raising food, or in repairing damaged starships, or in learning things about the universe that those stupid Hur'q never knew. Like Roclak, first officer of Grunt's ships, who was once a member of a highly-connected House, but was publicly discommendated for loudly declaring that when the qameH' quv infestation was found, the information should have been shared with the other major power in the quadrant, the Federation, and joint action undertaken. Sure, it runs counter to what some Klingons claim honor means, but to Rock it was the obviously right next step, because honor isn't just staining your blade with the blood of your enemy, sometimes it's making them not your enemy any more.
And Romulans. Don't get me started on Romulans. (Too late!) If the entire species acted the way the government we see in TNG acted, they'd never have survived three weeks after landing on ch'Rihan - they'd have spent so much time plotting and backstabbing, no one would have gotten around to growing any crops, and they certainly wouldn't have shared anything out. If they're a Planet of Hats, they're extinct.
I want to know what the rest of these people are like. How is the daily life of a Pakled family? Are they anything like, say, quarians (who, in their own universe, are dismissed as thieves and layabouts)? How do Ferengi balance their inherent greed against the need for a consumer economy to have consumers who can afford the goods? What does the Rihanh on the street think of these Republic upstarts? Who are the Andorian scientists, physicians, poets? Are there Bajoran atheists, and if so how do they keep that lack of faith in the face of "gods" who manifestly live in a sky temple they can go visit?
Any species, even the Kazon, holds possibilities for amazing storytelling - so long as you don't believe in the Planet of Hats...
Believe it or not, The Romulan Way has it that a significant percentage of the Travelers (several thousand) died in internecine fighting in the first couple decades after settling ch'Rihan. They had to resort to cloning and genetic engineering to keep their population at a sustainable level. EDIT: That's also why they don't go through pon farr -- they cut it out of their genome.
And even after they got themselves sorted out they had a few rounds of civil wars (including one incident where a self-declared Empress seized absolute power for several decades before being overthrown by the Remans), and in the series' present The Shiar is a police state and one of the frequent mission profiles of the Grand Fleet is putting down revolts in the colonies. So, yeah, even ignoring the RSE partisans like catoblepasbeta, even in Duane's novels they're a lot more like Space Drow than the STO writers are willing to portray them as.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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*Romulans> They are cool, the way they where portrayed on Star Trek reminded me of Janus from James Bond. He was the coolest villain ever! I've always loved their Warbird too, it's a beautiful design.
*Betazoids> Mostly because of Lawaxana Troy, who was my favorite character. She didn't care what anyone else thought, she was there for her personal pleasure only. If you where not apart of her goals you where not worth her time. I loved the concept of a carefree race that spoke their minds with authority!
*Ferengi> They where so freaking ugly, but, they where also hilarious! When they where in an episode, you where most likely going to laugh, since everything they did ended up in a punchline; verbal or situational. Very sorry Kittian fans, but this race acts more like kitties then the ones they offer, even to the point of the ear massage to please them.
Dislikes>
*Orions> I hate having to see naked Orks running round.
*Anything else ugly or disgusting.
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
It's funny that you should say that, as I named one of my Romulan's ships, "Lolth."
That's a very good point!
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse