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My findings on the Pet Nerf
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TL: DR After Delta Rising, hangar pet DPS went up by 50%. Devs nerfed hangar pet DPS by 75% for "balance". Now pets at level 60 do 1/2 the damage they did at level 50 before Delta Rising.
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After testing hangar pets in both PvE and PvP settings the following has been observed:
1. Frigate pets have had their DPS reduced by 50% of their pre-DR levels. Fighter pets have been reduced by aproximately 25-30%.
2. The difference between Normal, Advanced, and Elite pets has become virtually non-existant.
3. Fighter pets now out perform Frigate pets.
4. The percentage of a ships damage that pets do has been significantly reduced from pre-DR levels.
5. Pets now cost too much for their performance levels.
6. This nerf is minor to high DPSers and a serious blow to low DPSers.
1) Frigate pets are now averaging 2-2.5k DPS per hangar down from 4-5k DPS/hangar(pre-DR). Romulan Drones are down to an average of 3-4k/hangar down from 6-8k(pre-DR).
Fighter pets are doing 3k/hangar down from 4-4.5k/hangar(pre-DR).
* With very short(bursty) runs where the pets don't draw aggro and don't get hit by breaches, the frigates can hit 9-10k DPS. These are exceptional runs however and far from the average.
2) The quality of pet has no impact on the pets performance, DPS or Survivabilty. The pet do so little damage that going from a tier 1 ability to a tier 3 ability is not noticible.
Example: Pet with FAW1 vs Pet with FAW3. Pet uses FAW every 30 seconds for 10 seconds. FAW1 nets the pet +25% damage with it's beams. FAW3 nets the pet +40% damage. that's a +12% increase.
If the pet is doing 1k DPS, a +12% damage increase is not noticible.
3) Fighters now > Frigates. Apart from some exceptional situations; 1 hangar of fighter pets (Swarmers, Scorpions, Widows) will out perform 2 hangars of Frigates. this cannot be intentional.
4) One dev mentioned in regards to this nerf that the % of a ships damage that hangar pets do will be the same post nerf as it was pre-DR. Ship damage (non-pets) has increase by 30% on the low end to 100% on the high end. pet damage has decreased to be lower than they where pre-DR.
So now where i used to see my pets doing 15-30% of my ships damage, post-nerd i'm seeing 5-15% of my ships damage.
5) An Elite pet hangar costs 5x as much as an Advanced Fleet weapon but only does 1/2 the damage. For the cost of 2 elite hangars a player could purchase a full set of fleet weapons or consoles and see a significantly higher return on his/her investment.
Also the cost of upgrading Starbase Science to T5 for Elite pets vs Engineering T2 for Advanced Space Weapons.
6) The top DPS players are going to shrug this nerf off. Pet damage is only a small part of the big numbers.
example: @felisean's 107k DPS run, his pets did 9k DPS. If the pet nerf was applied his run would go down to 103k DPS.
This nerf hit the average player significantly harder. An average player in an Atrox might see his DPS drop from 15-20k down to 10k DPS or less.
This only increases the power gap between top players and the average players.
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* All results where taken from parses of multiple ISA runs from different sources.
originally posted here.
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After testing hangar pets in both PvE and PvP settings the following has been observed:
1. Frigate pets have had their DPS reduced by 50% of their pre-DR levels. Fighter pets have been reduced by aproximately 25-30%.
2. The difference between Normal, Advanced, and Elite pets has become virtually non-existant.
3. Fighter pets now out perform Frigate pets.
4. The percentage of a ships damage that pets do has been significantly reduced from pre-DR levels.
5. Pets now cost too much for their performance levels.
6. This nerf is minor to high DPSers and a serious blow to low DPSers.
1) Frigate pets are now averaging 2-2.5k DPS per hangar down from 4-5k DPS/hangar(pre-DR). Romulan Drones are down to an average of 3-4k/hangar down from 6-8k(pre-DR).
Fighter pets are doing 3k/hangar down from 4-4.5k/hangar(pre-DR).
* With very short(bursty) runs where the pets don't draw aggro and don't get hit by breaches, the frigates can hit 9-10k DPS. These are exceptional runs however and far from the average.
2) The quality of pet has no impact on the pets performance, DPS or Survivabilty. The pet do so little damage that going from a tier 1 ability to a tier 3 ability is not noticible.
Example: Pet with FAW1 vs Pet with FAW3. Pet uses FAW every 30 seconds for 10 seconds. FAW1 nets the pet +25% damage with it's beams. FAW3 nets the pet +40% damage. that's a +12% increase.
If the pet is doing 1k DPS, a +12% damage increase is not noticible.
3) Fighters now > Frigates. Apart from some exceptional situations; 1 hangar of fighter pets (Swarmers, Scorpions, Widows) will out perform 2 hangars of Frigates. this cannot be intentional.
4) One dev mentioned in regards to this nerf that the % of a ships damage that hangar pets do will be the same post nerf as it was pre-DR. Ship damage (non-pets) has increase by 30% on the low end to 100% on the high end. pet damage has decreased to be lower than they where pre-DR.
So now where i used to see my pets doing 15-30% of my ships damage, post-nerd i'm seeing 5-15% of my ships damage.
5) An Elite pet hangar costs 5x as much as an Advanced Fleet weapon but only does 1/2 the damage. For the cost of 2 elite hangars a player could purchase a full set of fleet weapons or consoles and see a significantly higher return on his/her investment.
Also the cost of upgrading Starbase Science to T5 for Elite pets vs Engineering T2 for Advanced Space Weapons.
6) The top DPS players are going to shrug this nerf off. Pet damage is only a small part of the big numbers.
example: @felisean's 107k DPS run, his pets did 9k DPS. If the pet nerf was applied his run would go down to 103k DPS.
This nerf hit the average player significantly harder. An average player in an Atrox might see his DPS drop from 15-20k down to 10k DPS or less.
This only increases the power gap between top players and the average players.
---
* All results where taken from parses of multiple ISA runs from different sources.
originally posted here.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
From a PvPers perspective I'd say: Nerf 'em to the ground or even better, remove pets from the game entirely. They have been annoying from the very beginning.
Since that won't happen and because of all that PvE tears I'd suggest: Buff their dps and remove all APB from pets.
Haters gonna hate. Don't like pets in combat? Don't engage in matches which use them.
Costing an ungodly amount of Fleet Cred and Dil, or Lobi (say 200-300 for one).
With a slotted Intel skill or two to allow them and their attendant carrier to actually do some serious burst damage every few seconds.
The silver lining is that they will at least be usable on T5U ships with hangars, and allow for artificial bonus damage from the pets' respective Intel skills.
Pets like the Tholian Frigate would be able to stack APB and Ionic Turbulence to their target for even more damage.
And Obelisk Swamers can spam Electromagnetic Pulse Probes.
And Catian Stealth fighters can spam Intel Team to improve their stealth.
And so on.
And this shall be Cryptic's answer to Carriers supposedly being made obsolete.
Hopefully the Dev console
Thanks for the info SD, saves me some moolah getting the UR versions!
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Yeah and the devs also said that progression would be the same after the skillpoints nerf and we all know how bollocks that statement was.
Joined January 2009
What's truly ridiculous is one week we're told they are going to nerf pets and obviously they used the current(at thet time) data. A couple of weeks later they tell us xii and xiv weapons aren't doing enough damage so they are going to boost them. As a result the fighters get nerfed as the weapons get boosted effectively double-nerfing the pets.
If they had just left pets alone they would have had the result they wanted by just boosting xiii and xiv weapons. It's like no one has the big picture.
What I don't get is why they nerfed pet DPS then overly boosted mk XIII and XIV weapons DPS.
Tactical info is gathered by the main craft, then transmitted on a secured frequency to the smaller support or wing groups crafts. Attack Alpha protocol can be used also, but can only gives one third of the bonus normally given to the main ship *the player's* The usual science attacks that disrupts the opponents' ship systems, can delay this feature coming into play.
This will give back some kick to the fighting 'pets'.
But unlike dreadnaughts they don't get super weapon slots Unlike cruisers they don't get commands unlike science ships they don't get a Stacking sensor Scan Unlike Any other class they don't get any offensive boosts in the ship level up process ( just more tanking) They're big, cumbersome, slow, and don't pack that much of a punch... Till you launch the fighters/frigates... Now that dps has been nerfed back so it's a kick to the kahoonas for carrier players.
The past couple patches they increased the dps of weapons at mk 14 by 15-50%, and decreased the pet damage by atleast half.
This has only benefited ships like the scimtar, and killed ships like the atrox. While I love the scimtar, I didn't come to star trek to play scimtar online.
Please let carriers have a Place in matches
I thought the increase was around 10%
1) Carriers in on themselves are a bit(in some cases a lot)handicapped in what they can do DPS wise so they NEED to have their pets to make up for the loss.
2) Pets are freaken expensive. One has to start to question is it even worth it anymore.
3) This further blows my mind as to what is going on with Cryptic these days. We have someone from Cryptic saying "X" will happen and then we end up getting "3". Maybe they changed their minds, who knows, but why are we finding this out by a player? Are there patch notes I'm missing or that I missed?
Thanks for the data OP, Cryptic should pay you...no seriously.
It's a reporting error :rolleyes:
See this topic reply: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=21225361&postcount=136
For reference, the original pet nerf thread, which went on for 71 pages:
Upcoming changes to Hangar Pets and Separation pets
It isn't just carriers, mva, saucers, flight decks, and expensive elite fighters being disadvantaged, but the net effect of boosting weapons results in unfair advantages to ships with the greatest weapon slots, particularly those with 5 fore.
Thx for the heads-up. Geko, well, you know what I think about you.
Hating this whole 'Bait & Switch' tactics, where they let you buy good stuff (like the Aquatic carrier), then nerf you soon thereafter.
N.B. Still awaiting that invite, btw.
But, wait, doesn't this hurt high dpsers in carriers more then low dpsers?
lets just look at Meimeitoo as an example. Not sure what ship your 29k is about above. But, 29k is a pretty good number. And way higher then the average STO player will reach. I pug alot and Id say majority are lucky to get over 10k
So say your ship does 29k right now.
That's like saying 3.6k per weapon X8.
So take off 2 weapons, 21.75k with 6 weapons
+ 2 Hangers at 2.3 k per hanger.
So 26.75
You'd lose 2.25K? does'nt sound bad. And since so many barely do 10k, that's only 1.25k per weapon. So getting a 2 Hanger ship would still be an upgrade for them. And anyone below 16K a hanger is still a bit better then that spot being a weapon. If the pets lowest is 2k. And a 16k player gets 2k per weapon.
I'd rather see them buffed, not nerfed. But, only see it as hurting High Dpsers from wanting a hanger at all.
you wont get any notifications about an invite. you have to go into Chat Settings > Channels, then highlight the channels and click Join.
All the invitation does is show the channel in your channel listing.
if that doesn't work PM me your @handle and i will check things.
Yeah, I understand the pets were "overperforming." Obviously, they weren't meant to have more HP than the carriers launching them. They were scaling a bit too far.
But of course, Cryptic can't scale back the scaling on something a little bit. They have to kneejerk it into the ground.
In contrast to 1 hangar Flight Deck Cruisers, "Carrier" Escorts, Vesta, Scimitar, etc, which all have the full suite of expected capability of their classes.
- A FDC will have the full 8 weapon slots, hull, shields of a Cruiser.
- "Carrier" Escorts like the Akira have all the characteristics of an Escort. 7 weapons, hull, shield mods, handling, etc.
- The Vesta is the Vesta.
- Scimitar is still Scimitar regardless of the state of its Drones.
But true, 2 hangar carriers?
6 weapons - Vo'Quv, Atrox, Recluse, Obelisk and even the new T6 Sarr Theln.
7 weapons - Kar'Fi, Narcine, JHDC
The 7 weapon ones at least have 7 weapons, but -1 weapons compared to Flight Deck Carriers / large hullpoint ships. They're behind the curve now since their 2 hangars are utterly worthless.
The ones that suck? The 6 weapon ones. Already way behind on weapon slots, so their inherent firepower is roughly that of a Tier 3 ship that has 6 weapons also. Now that the hangar units they depend on have poor combat capability, well, the Steel Nerfbat hit them in the teeth.
Ships like the mighty Scimitar,and the Sheshar are still god mode, and the Fed Dread still maintains 8 weapon slots so still viable, not sure about the Corsair as it has few tac powers and tac slots.
RyanSTO has proved the FED HEC can be set up for beastmode.
But the Sci Carriers... not so much.
Its kind of ironic, Cryptic gives us a nice shiny new Tier 6 Sci Carrier, and btw we are nerfing hangers. Seems like a DBag move to me.
I say TRIBBLE hanger DPS and just run the ones that steal contraband.
..
Thx. But nope, channel isn't there.
I can't PM you, it seems; so, Kira Shepard@meimeitoo it is then.
Gee, where have I heard that that before? :rolleyes:
I see you in 10k... and i sent you an invite to 20k now but keep in mind that channel is being depricated soon. better work on that 30k parse.
I haven't done any additional testing since then, so it's likely that there might have been some tweaks done since during the tests weavers and jhas pets where consistently at ~2k DPS.
But isn't that like saying all 6 weapon sci ship's are useless? Since most of them 6 weapon carriers are also science heavy. They can grav well. Tbr. Etc. Other then lacking sensor analysis. I see them as big science ships with hangers.
I agree it sucks. But not as gloom as everyone make it.