Defiant Refit vs Defiant Retrofit

crowley875

Okay very quick,

So I'm currently using the Defiant Refit ship, the one available at the rank of Captain. I found out there's a Retrofit version available at the rank of Vice Admiral. When I look at the differences between these 2, the only things I can find:

- Retrofit has 5000 more hitpoints than the Refit
- Retrofit has a cloaking device
- The Lt. Tactical Station at Refit is Lt. Cmdr at Retrofit

Is it actually worth it to recplace my Refit for Retrofit? I don't know if 5000 extra hitpoints would make a difference but... I'm just trying to find a reason or 2 to start using the Retrofit one.

In the end, I need a ship with teeth.

warlockx1

Yes. By end game those Capt level ships get eaten alive.

rodentmaster

^^ what he said.

duncanidaho11

Captain - level 30
Vice Admiral - level 50

Don't try to use level 30 ships at level 50. The HP and Boff differences do count for a lot (and besides you can get fleet upgrades and T5-U on the VA version, making the difference quite a lot more monumental.)

mustrumridcully0

Depends - do you ever want to be part of any Advanced or Elite content? IF the answer is no, keep your money or Dilithium. If not, you'll eventually need to upgrade to Defiant Retrofit. Probably even to Defiant Fleet Retrofit Tier 5 Upgrade.

If you're here for the story missions, you can probably keep it for quite some while, depending on your experience with the game mechanics and your abilities to make strong builds, even a Captain ship could serve you for long. Particularly since the Defiant is an Escort.

If you're really in love with the Defiant, and accept no substitute, the Defiant Retrofit (or its Fleet Retrofit, or its Fleet Retrofit Upgrade Tier 5) will be your choice.
But remember, there are also Tier 6 ships out there right now. If you rather want to get to the most up-to-date ship - The Phantom will support your current play style, and it bears some resemblance to the Defiant. But it is not the same as a Defiant. And maybe if you're patient enough, at some point there will be a Tier 6 Defiant Retrofit? I hope so, but no one knows.

crowley875

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

T5-U on the VA version

Right, I've haven't thought of that. I've been pretty much using science ships and space battles with them are slow, keeping your ship in a turn until the front is facing the target but by the time it's there, the target is already behind me, making me turn again lol.. and armed with 4 cannons at the front of the Defiant, hot damn.

questerius

warlockx1 wrote: »

Yes. By end game those Capt level ships get eaten alive.

Really? Had not noticed.
If you know how to build and fly then ships like the defiant refit and intrepid can pull their weight.
They do have less hit points and fewer console slots though so that is something to keep in mind.
Not total trash, but not top of the line either.

The biggest advantage of the T-5 defiant is you can get the T5 fleet defiant a lot cheaper.

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seriousxeno

crowley875 wrote: »

Okay very quick,

So I'm currently using the Defiant Refit ship, the one available at the rank of Captain. I found out there's a Retrofit version available at the rank of Vice Admiral. When I look at the differences between these 2, the only things I can find:

- Retrofit has 5000 more hitpoints than the Refit
- Retrofit has a cloaking device
- The Lt. Tactical Station at Refit is Lt. Cmdr at Retrofit

Is it actually worth it to recplace my Refit for Retrofit? I don't know if 5000 extra hitpoints would make a difference but... I'm just trying to find a reason or 2 to start using the Retrofit one.

In the end, I need a ship with teeth.

The retrofit also comes with a 7th weapon slot which gives you a 3rd aft weapon. So in the end, the retrofit is way superior. I have both and can honestly that prior to DR, you could get away with using the refit in elite content, but not anymore.

While I detest the super-tac-heavy BOFF layout that is in no way flexible, if you like the ship design enough, go and get the fleet version and upgrade to tier 5U after getting the retrofit. Its the best the Defiant is ever gonna get without a tier 6 overhaul.

crowley875

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

Depends - do you ever want to be part of any Advanced or Elite content? IF the answer is no, keep your money or Dilithium. If not, you'll eventually need to upgrade to Defiant Retrofit. Probably even to Defiant Fleet Retrofit Tier 5 Upgrade.

If you're here for the story missions, you can probably keep it for quite some while, depending on your experience with the game mechanics and your abilities to make strong builds, even a Captain ship could serve you for long. Particularly since the Defiant is an Escort.

If you're really in love with the Defiant, and accept no substitute, the Defiant Retrofit (or its Fleet Retrofit, or its Fleet Retrofit Upgrade Tier 5) will be your choice.
But remember, there are also Tier 6 ships out there right now. If you rather want to get to the most up-to-date ship - The Phantom will support your current play style, and it bears some resemblance to the Defiant. But it is not the same as a Defiant. And maybe if you're patient enough, at some point there will be a Tier 6 Defiant Retrofit? I hope so, but no one knows.

Yea true, the Defiant is a ship I love, I've been mostly doing Ground stuff but I'm also trying to do more Space again. Since I already had my Defiant unlocked at the Captain rank available I've been considering using it again. I have another Escort ship, can't remember what's it called, but it's turn rate is a little slower and it has a hangar bay. But now I'm starting to wonder, T5-U Defiant or the T6 Phantom? Since there are some PvE Advanced/Elite things I saw that are still quite busy, and I'm sort of muddling my way through a few story lines. Foundry and Official.

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sonnikku

Not to hijack OP's topic, but quick defiant question; Does the quad cannon look and sound like the ship shooting on the show? If it does I might actually consider going phasers on my fleet defiant and buying one.

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crowley875

sonnikku wrote: »

Not to hijack OP's topic, but quick defiant question; Does the quad cannon look and sound like the ship shooting on the show? If it does I might actually consider going phasers on my fleet defiant and buying one.

It does actually, its sounds pretty cool. Might be slightly different I think.

crowley875

westmetals wrote: »

Right this minute, I would hold off on buying either for about three-four days (only because there just might be an after-Chrtistmas sale). The T6 Phantom and the T5U Fleet Defiant are virtually identical except for one console slot more on the Def (non-tactical), which is balanced by the Phantom's cloak being built-in rather than a console, and a slightly different BOFF layout, and the ability to earn the Reciprocity trait (however, once you have the trait, it can be used on any ship you fly). The stats are not exact but they are very close. And of course the body style. Personally, I flew the Phantom long enough to get the trait and flipped back to the T5U Fleet Defiant.

Sounds like a T5-U is the better choice then, considering my style of playing. I've also seen many people saying on the forums and ingame: "Arming your Defiant with AntiProton cannons is stronger than the phaser cannons!"

True?

medalionemissary

I'm happy a Defiant topic has come up

however I was thinking yesterday of breaking out my Fleet Defiant Retrofit from mothballs

Then I realized... the ship is incredibly outdone by so many other ships, it's not even funny

It is not even worth upgrading to T5-U, it just falls behind other escorts

Even for the Canon appeal... it's just depressing

Perhaps for the Gamma Rising (DS9 centric DLC) there will be a major revamp to things like the Defiant, to a T6 version or whatever

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medalionemissary

What made the Defiant unique (besides the Galaxy Dread) back in the day, was that it was a Fed ship with a cloak... now so many ships these days have cloaks that are cross faction accessible... and it takes up a console slot

Not worth it

mhall85

westmetals wrote: »

Actually, the Fleet T5U Defiant and the T6 Phantom are virtually identical other than the BOFF layout. So I have no clue why so many people would think one of them is great and the other not even worth having. I suspect it's the people who "simply must have the very best" and the novelty factor.

And, actually, the Fleet Defiant T5-U has more hull HP, if I recall correctly. Less bells and whistles.

I'm actually working on my Defiant build now... I love the ship. It will blow up a lot, but it's an escort... so, one will have to deal with that until the Console - Universal - "The Sisko" comes out with the T6 Defiant.

crowley875

What about shielding? One once said that an escort ship would be best with a regenerative shield array.

mhall85

crowley875 wrote: »

What about shielding? One once said that an escort ship would be best with a regenerative shield array.

I ran with the Borg shields for a long time... the Defiant (escorts in general, really) have low shield modifiers, so they will have low capacity. You can grab a Field Exciter or Field Generator science console to buff shield capacity... but you need your shields to come back quick.

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ceekayzero

westmetals wrote: »

Actually, the Fleet T5U Defiant and the T6 Phantom are virtually identical other than the BOFF layout. So I have no clue why so many people would think one of them is great and the other not even worth having. I suspect it's the people who "simply must have the very best" and the novelty factor.

Because Override Subsystems Safeties is really, really powerful. It can break the 125 weapon power cap limit, which will make the alpha of the Phantom hit MUCH harder than that of a Defiant.

crowley875

mhall85 wrote: »

I ran with the Borg shields for a long time... the Defiant (escorts in general, really) have low shield modifiers, so they will have low capacity. You can grab a Field Exciter or Field Generator science console to buff shield capacity... but you need your shields to come back quick.

I should get those then. I've been pretty much using Science Team II and Emergency Power to Shields III along with batteries to get my shields back.

medalionemissary

The game has so many unique mult-function consoles, I stuff so many of em on my ship... one of the first things to go is the standard cloak... as it's not even Battle Cloak

jaturnley

ceekayzero wrote: »

Because Override Subsystems Safeties is really, really powerful. It can break the 125 weapon power cap limit, which will make the alpha of the Phantom hit MUCH harder than that of a Defiant.

Until OSS knocks your shields offline in the middle of getting hit by multiple enemies, and you go boom instantly. :P

Here's the real deal with trying to use low level ships above 50. You can do it, but if you run at advanced or elite difficulty you will die a LOT, which means slower mission completion and lots of EC spent on repairs (or trips to the starbase for free repairs). Without running at higher difficulty, XP gain is incredibly slow. So bottom line? You really need a T5 or higher ship if you want to get to 60 and not take a couple months to get there.

mustrumridcully0

crowley875 wrote: »

Yea true, the Defiant is a ship I love, I've been mostly doing Ground stuff but I'm also trying to do more Space again. Since I already had my Defiant unlocked at the Captain rank available I've been considering using it again. I have another Escort ship, can't remember what's it called, but it's turn rate is a little slower and it has a hangar bay. But now I'm starting to wonder, T5-U Defiant or the T6 Phantom? Since there are some PvE Advanced/Elite things I saw that are still quite busy, and I'm sort of muddling my way through a few story lines. Foundry and Official.

I wish there was a way to test these ships, but there isn't.

Things to consider

• A Tier 4 / Captain Level ship will not serve you for endgame purposes, but it will suffice for most story missions. (Beware, Delta content also brings a few new enemies that actually seem tougher than the old ones. )
• A Tactical Escort Retrofit will allow you to make a tier 5 Upgrade. That is close to a "real" Tier 6 ship, and it allows you to keep your current ship looks. And it will like serve you for advanced difficulty space content.
• If you already got a Tier 5 ship, you may use that. What you described sounded like a Heavy Escort Retrofit (based on the Akira from First Contact). It will be as serviceable as the Tactical Escort Retrofit. The play style is still very similar, you may want to add another turn rate booster console (RCS Console) to get your old manoeuvrability back, but you also get that hangar bay out of the deal, which adds some neat extra firepower. It won't look like a Defiant.
• A Tier 6 ship will definitly serve for endgame. It won't look like a Defiant.
• In the future, there may be a Tier 6 Defiant. I am kinda hoping for it, since we got a Tier 6 Intrepid. But there has been no official statement that this is actually something Cryptic plans to do. For all we know, they plan to make completely new ships that will not be based on existing ships. That would be a bit sad, since people were arguing very hard in the past to get endgame versions of their favourite ships and we slowly got them over the years. But - it will also feel like rebuying something you already own. That may not work "politically", so to speak.

mustrumridcully0

jaturnley wrote: »

Until OSS knocks your shields offline in the middle of getting hit by multiple enemies, and you go boom instantly. :P

Shields going offline? Sure. Blowing up from that? Not really. The window of opportunity for that is so extremely close that it never really matters. And that is 20 seconds after you launched your OSS enhanced alpha strike. Many enemies are already dead by that point.