"...to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."
This is Trek to me. When they encounter these things, the result can be peaceful, strange, or violent. They do their best, but they're still just human...kind of.
In Delta Rising STO is taking a page from TNG with the parasite story line. You know, the episode where Picard and Riker explode that guys body into a disgusting gory bloody pulp in the end with phasers. In DR, they have that, and the aliens who can only continue the species by reanimating dead corpses. Strange, new life. Then you have Captain Kim arguing with that other Fed officer about the morality of their culture. You've got fighting, drama, diplomacy and just about everything else from the TV shows going on in Delta Rising. And for the icing on the cake, it's got plenty of hypocrisy, conflicting messages, and inconsistencies.......just like the TV shows.
I think Cryptic knows Star Trek very well, or at least people working there do know it very well.
They often rely on almost obscure Star Trek references to create a story line. Just look at the aliens. I think almost none of them are originally created by Cryptic, they all come from some TV episode.
But they are still a company in a Capitalistic economy. A lesson on how humans evolve beyond the pursuit of money may not be lost on them - but we're not in that wonderful future, we're in the here and now, and if they wanted to actively advance that goal, being a MMO company would be the wrong starting point. They'd need to go into politics.
I never understood why people complained about STO being so combat oriented. I haven't played a Star Trek game yet that hasn't been combat oriented.
Starfleet Command
Bridge Commander
DS9: The Fallen
Elite Force
Armada
Legacy
I'm sure people would like a game that involves a little more exploration, but why pick on STO when it's no different from plenty of other popular games which came before it? Don't get me wrong either, STO has its fair share of problems and things I would like to see differently. As far as the plot goes however, I actually enjoy it and see no real problem with it.
Star Trek: 25th Anniversary
Star Trek: A Final Unity
I believe there were two others (Harbinger? and another one based on the 25th Anniversary "engine").
Those were adventures. They had a bit of fighting in them so it fits the 80% Exploration/Diplomacy and 20 % Fighting model of Star Trek.
But they are very, very far from MMOs. Adventures make a poor basis for an online game, since there is nothing for players to do until the creators make a new adventure. The only type of "content" that can be easily repeated without becoming stale immediately is basically the fighting stuff. If you done a story once, you just know to much about it, and making a story taking hundreds of turning points where players can choose which direction to move on is not realistically possible. It's the same effort as making hundreds of stories, basically.
I think STO could make a better job at the story missions being a bit more.. "thoughtful", so to speak. To have more interesting dilemmas and conflicts than they do now.
But maybe STO shies away from it because a lot in Star Trek veered into political discussions, using allegories and aliens with bumps on their foreheads to conceal them. They don't want to risk pissing off anyone because the story took a stance on TRIBBLE rights or torture of terrorist suspects or whatever.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
mmm Star Trek TNG future past on Snes was a great game about exploration with occasional combats, my first ST game when i had the loved Snes, that game was very good for the limited resources of the consoles of that era.
I think Cryptic knows Star Trek very well, or at least people working there do know it very well.
They often rely on almost obscure Star Trek references to create a story line. Just look at the aliens. I think almost none of them are originally created by Cryptic, they all come from some TV episode.
But they are still a company in a Capitalistic economy. A lesson on how humans evolve beyond the pursuit of money may not be lost on them - but we're not in that wonderful future, we're in the here and now, and if they wanted to actively advance that goal, being a MMO company would be the wrong starting point. They'd need to go into politics.
Star Trek: 25th Anniversary
Star Trek: A Final Unity
I believe there were two others (Harbinger? and another one based on the 25th Anniversary "engine").
.
I believe Judgment Rites is the one that you're thinking of (I used to have the collector's edition of that game, It came with a VHS copy of "City on the Edge of Forever")
kill 1 npc your a murderer,
kill 10 npcs, your a serious killer,
kill 100 npcs, your a mass murderer,
kill 1000 npcs your a monster,
kill 1 million npcs, your a war hero in recognition of a rank and grade...
janeway would be so proud... (that isnt a compliment either)
but star trek was not about combat, it was a part of the show but it wasnt the focus of star trek. the original message was the human condition, exploring it through confrontational means to force a social change. some of the most controversial things in recent memory was because of trek and how gene had his writers deal with the subject. some of it was feel good stuff, some other times its about some realyl complicated issues and grey areas.
but none of that matters on sto, there is trek canon and there is sto canon.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
kill 1 npc your a murderer,
kill 10 npcs, your a serious killer,
kill 100 npcs, your a mass murderer,
kill 1000 npcs your a monster,
kill 1 million npcs, your a war hero in recognition of a rank and grade...
janeway would be so proud... (that isnt a compliment either)
but star trek was not about combat, it was a part of the show but it wasnt the focus of star trek. the original message was the human condition, exploring it through confrontational means to force a social change. some of the most controversial things in recent memory was because of trek and how gene had his writers deal with the subject. some of it was feel good stuff, some other times its about some realyl complicated issues and grey areas.
but none of that matters on sto, there is trek canon and there is sto canon.
I don't think the issue is that the devs are incompetent about the nuances of what makes fans so passionate about Star Trek, I think it's the fact this game is a MMO and has been adhering to the "grindy" MMO concepts to meet the devs goals for how the in game economy should be balanced.
Ideally the devs would have a target amount of dil, ECs, fleet marks, etc. that they feel players should be earning per hour in order to keep the game economy in balance. If you want to be efficient and earning dilithium you run the same handful of missions repeatedly, if you need fleet marks you grind another set of missions into the ground, repeatedly. It quickly breaks down into a repetitive resource grind .
That's where this game suddenly loses any resemblance to Star Trek and becomes boring. They need to refocus on making the game fun and enjoyable while still economically sound. To reach that goal may require forgetting everything they've seen other companies do to make money in Free To Play games and come up with something fresh. Cryptic has an opportunity to be an innovator here, I hope they take it.
I think the last "vestiges" of Star Trek was killed when they removed exploration because it was "too confusing to players and didn't meet their standards of quality".
DR obsolescence of canon ships was just the coup-de grace.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
black ethnic issues in 1960's america - kirk and uhura kissing.
women wearing less clothes - change in perception for women in general from the previous 50 years.
russians - klingons
russia, america and no cold war - pavel chekov & film about an alliance between feds and klingons.
japanese americans and especially their imprisonment - hikaru sulu
changes in social dynamics - TRIBBLE episodes
politics - deep space 9
anything else? because there are even more.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
black ethnic issues in 1960's america - kirk and uhura kissing.
women wearing less clothes - change in perception for women in general from the previous 50 years.
russians - klingons
russia, america and no cold war - pavel chekov
japanese americans and especially their imprisonment - hikaru sulu
changes in social dynamics - TRIBBLE episodes
politics - deep space 9
anything else? because there are even more.
Things covered by shows before Star Trek came along...so again, do you have any examples?
black ethnic issues in 1960's america - kirk and uhura kissing.
women wearing less clothes - change in perception for women in general from the previous 50 years.
russians - klingons
russia, america and no cold war - pavel chekov & film about an alliance between feds and klingons.
japanese americans and especially their imprisonment - hikaru sulu
changes in social dynamics - TRIBBLE episodes
politics - deep space 9
anything else? because there are even more.
Anyone who watched a "The Measure of a Man" (TNG) or "Duet" (DS9) knows what excellence in Trek was. There were some stinkers too but in general ST was about elevating the human condition.
STO is the mirror universe where the Ferengi took over and everything is on "sale".
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The lesser clothing was mostly a) reflective of the '60s miniskirt (fond memories of that fashion trend), and b) Nichelle Nichols hemming her uniform shorter and shorter to show off her legs, of which she was justifiably proud.
Casting Klingons as Russians was hardly "controversial", save that they didn't actually call them "Russkies" at any point. Man From UNCLE was more groundbreaking in that regard, having Ilya Kuryakin as an agent long before Ensign Pavel Chekov plotted courses for the Enterprise.
This is not to say Gene was against pushing the envelope where he could - but it was always in the interest of keeping the show on the air. (That famed interracial kiss? It was originally supposed to be between Uhura and Spock, and have a bit of dialog fleshing out the relationship they had before the beginning of the series, but Shatner insisted on having that scene for himself, and who can blame him?) He wanted a successful show, at least partly because that was what would pay for that nice house he and Majel had.
TNG didn't have to be quite so daring, because it was in first-run syndication - stations wanting to run it paid up front. Ratings weren't quite so important. Gene was able to let his newfound Hollywood-liberal ideas run free, giving us such "villains" as the Ferengi (who were supposed to be scary because they were fervent capitalists; in the circles Gene ran in at the time, that was seen as a Bad Thing, so he didn't seem to feel a need at first to make them scary for any other reasons). Fortunately, after the second season he pulled back to being merely an executive producer, letting Piller and others take over more of the responsibility for the show.
black ethnic issues in 1960's america - kirk and uhura kissing.
women wearing less clothes - change in perception for women in general from the previous 50 years.
russians - klingons
russia, america and no cold war - pavel chekov & film about an alliance between feds and klingons.
japanese americans and especially their imprisonment - hikaru sulu
changes in social dynamics - TRIBBLE episodes
politics - deep space 9
anything else? because there are even more.
The point is that it's not special. Gene did it more to attract ratings than to make a point.
As for episodes with a message.... I think often about "A Taste of Armageddon". It's a classic example of how Kirk has ideals, but those ideals include varying things. In the episode Kirk talks with the not-a-human alien guy about the concept of savagery. But that comes after ordering Enterprise to nuke the planet from orbit if the aliens don't cooperate. Why? Because words are hollow and powerless without deeds to back them up. Kirk proved that he had the means to destroy them. But at the same time he demonstrated that he didn't want to. Neither would have been sufficient alone.
In ToS there was good and bad episodes, but overall it was about an utopic future with people treat others well, and get problems solved dy dialog(not always), now if anyone in cryptic did remeber Star Trek, the question must be, ¿Does anyone in cryptic know what Star Trek is? besides the brand that they use to atract customers to this game.
In ToS there was good and bad episodes, but overall it was about an utopic future with people treat others well, and get problems solved dy dialog(not always), now if anyone in cryptic did remeber Star Trek, the question must be, ¿Does anyone in cryptic know what Star Trek is? besides the brand that they use to atract customers to this game.
If you'd have said tng I'd agree with you. tos is all about action and conflict. Kirk needed to punch someone every episode; even if it was spock. Little in tos was solved via dialog. You beat them up and then made them listen to your speech.
On the other hand Picard could talk people to death. The enterprise would need to be shot twice before he'd return fire. Unless Riker was in command when things got hostile, but Riker lost every battle he was in without Picard.
Comments
This is Trek to me. When they encounter these things, the result can be peaceful, strange, or violent. They do their best, but they're still just human...kind of.
In Delta Rising STO is taking a page from TNG with the parasite story line. You know, the episode where Picard and Riker explode that guys body into a disgusting gory bloody pulp in the end with phasers. In DR, they have that, and the aliens who can only continue the species by reanimating dead corpses. Strange, new life. Then you have Captain Kim arguing with that other Fed officer about the morality of their culture. You've got fighting, drama, diplomacy and just about everything else from the TV shows going on in Delta Rising. And for the icing on the cake, it's got plenty of hypocrisy, conflicting messages, and inconsistencies.......just like the TV shows.
They often rely on almost obscure Star Trek references to create a story line. Just look at the aliens. I think almost none of them are originally created by Cryptic, they all come from some TV episode.
But they are still a company in a Capitalistic economy. A lesson on how humans evolve beyond the pursuit of money may not be lost on them - but we're not in that wonderful future, we're in the here and now, and if they wanted to actively advance that goal, being a MMO company would be the wrong starting point. They'd need to go into politics.
Star Trek: 25th Anniversary
Star Trek: A Final Unity
I believe there were two others (Harbinger? and another one based on the 25th Anniversary "engine").
Those were adventures. They had a bit of fighting in them so it fits the 80% Exploration/Diplomacy and 20 % Fighting model of Star Trek.
But they are very, very far from MMOs. Adventures make a poor basis for an online game, since there is nothing for players to do until the creators make a new adventure. The only type of "content" that can be easily repeated without becoming stale immediately is basically the fighting stuff. If you done a story once, you just know to much about it, and making a story taking hundreds of turning points where players can choose which direction to move on is not realistically possible. It's the same effort as making hundreds of stories, basically.
I think STO could make a better job at the story missions being a bit more.. "thoughtful", so to speak. To have more interesting dilemmas and conflicts than they do now.
But maybe STO shies away from it because a lot in Star Trek veered into political discussions, using allegories and aliens with bumps on their foreheads to conceal them. They don't want to risk pissing off anyone because the story took a stance on TRIBBLE rights or torture of terrorist suspects or whatever.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I believe Judgment Rites is the one that you're thinking of (I used to have the collector's edition of that game, It came with a VHS copy of "City on the Edge of Forever")
kill 1 npc your a murderer,
kill 10 npcs, your a serious killer,
kill 100 npcs, your a mass murderer,
kill 1000 npcs your a monster,
kill 1 million npcs, your a war hero in recognition of a rank and grade...
janeway would be so proud... (that isnt a compliment either)
but star trek was not about combat, it was a part of the show but it wasnt the focus of star trek. the original message was the human condition, exploring it through confrontational means to force a social change. some of the most controversial things in recent memory was because of trek and how gene had his writers deal with the subject. some of it was feel good stuff, some other times its about some realyl complicated issues and grey areas.
but none of that matters on sto, there is trek canon and there is sto canon.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Can you give a single example of that?
Ideally the devs would have a target amount of dil, ECs, fleet marks, etc. that they feel players should be earning per hour in order to keep the game economy in balance. If you want to be efficient and earning dilithium you run the same handful of missions repeatedly, if you need fleet marks you grind another set of missions into the ground, repeatedly. It quickly breaks down into a repetitive resource grind .
That's where this game suddenly loses any resemblance to Star Trek and becomes boring. They need to refocus on making the game fun and enjoyable while still economically sound. To reach that goal may require forgetting everything they've seen other companies do to make money in Free To Play games and come up with something fresh. Cryptic has an opportunity to be an innovator here, I hope they take it.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
DR obsolescence of canon ships was just the coup-de grace.
- Judge Aaron Satie
black ethnic issues in 1960's america - kirk and uhura kissing.
women wearing less clothes - change in perception for women in general from the previous 50 years.
russians - klingons
russia, america and no cold war - pavel chekov & film about an alliance between feds and klingons.
japanese americans and especially their imprisonment - hikaru sulu
changes in social dynamics - TRIBBLE episodes
politics - deep space 9
anything else? because there are even more.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Things covered by shows before Star Trek came along...so again, do you have any examples?
yeah? you name a few before you get me to dig any more holes for your amusement.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Anyone who watched a "The Measure of a Man" (TNG) or "Duet" (DS9) knows what excellence in Trek was. There were some stinkers too but in general ST was about elevating the human condition.
STO is the mirror universe where the Ferengi took over and everything is on "sale".
- Judge Aaron Satie
Casting Klingons as Russians was hardly "controversial", save that they didn't actually call them "Russkies" at any point. Man From UNCLE was more groundbreaking in that regard, having Ilya Kuryakin as an agent long before Ensign Pavel Chekov plotted courses for the Enterprise.
This is not to say Gene was against pushing the envelope where he could - but it was always in the interest of keeping the show on the air. (That famed interracial kiss? It was originally supposed to be between Uhura and Spock, and have a bit of dialog fleshing out the relationship they had before the beginning of the series, but Shatner insisted on having that scene for himself, and who can blame him?) He wanted a successful show, at least partly because that was what would pay for that nice house he and Majel had.
TNG didn't have to be quite so daring, because it was in first-run syndication - stations wanting to run it paid up front. Ratings weren't quite so important. Gene was able to let his newfound Hollywood-liberal ideas run free, giving us such "villains" as the Ferengi (who were supposed to be scary because they were fervent capitalists; in the circles Gene ran in at the time, that was seen as a Bad Thing, so he didn't seem to feel a need at first to make them scary for any other reasons). Fortunately, after the second season he pulled back to being merely an executive producer, letting Piller and others take over more of the responsibility for the show.
As for episodes with a message.... I think often about "A Taste of Armageddon". It's a classic example of how Kirk has ideals, but those ideals include varying things. In the episode Kirk talks with the not-a-human alien guy about the concept of savagery. But that comes after ordering Enterprise to nuke the planet from orbit if the aliens don't cooperate. Why? Because words are hollow and powerless without deeds to back them up. Kirk proved that he had the means to destroy them. But at the same time he demonstrated that he didn't want to. Neither would have been sufficient alone.
My character Tsin'xing
On the other hand Picard could talk people to death. The enterprise would need to be shot twice before he'd return fire. Unless Riker was in command when things got hostile, but Riker lost every battle he was in without Picard.