You failed to address my point. The question is whether or not the Cryptic devs have access to the mysterious and mystical Book of Metrics. And some people seem to swap between "yes" and "no" depending on which one they can use to make the devs look worse.
Well, first they tell us our opinion is meaningless because we are a minority, and they have metrics that show them everything they need. Also, Geko says the queues are not empty, it's a bug.
Then, they ask us (remember, the useless minority of ungrateful whiners, their words, not mine) about the empty queues.
I'm sorry, but I'm really confused. Do they need us, or not ? Are the queues empty or is it a bug ?
Since Cryptic give us 2 opposed answer to your question, you can't blame the players for being confused.
You failed to address my point. The question is whether or not the Cryptic devs have access to the mysterious and mystical Book of Metrics. And some people seem to swap between "yes" and "no" depending on which one they can use to make the devs look worse.
Cryptic definitely has metrics. They just interpret them in a way that suits them instead of actually reading into them.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
But honesty, they know everything! Seriously, how do you think those Specgate metrics were compiled?! Simply from running a set of queries on their logs, showing where you were, what mission you were doing, how many times, at what time, etc. Compiling metrics for empty queues would be no different.
Well who knows ... , maybe their queue metrics are as accurate as their Specgate metrics were ...
I have been to busy playing Eve, I didn't notice the thread while it was open.
LMAO
Metrics... ya.
I mean when there lying we know it... no one really believed they had a very good metric system. Still when they admit it in an end around like this... you can't help but laugh really hard out loud. (not just the typed lol... really I'm having a good belly laugh right now)
Well, first they tell us our opinion is meaningless because we are a minority, and they have metrics that show them everything they need. Also, Geko says the queues are not empty, it's a bug.
Then, they ask us (remember, the useless minority of ungrateful whiners, their words, not mine) about the empty queues.
"Queues are empty" =/= "Queues don't launch".
Over on CO, there's a minor bug with the Alert queues - sometimes an unseen timer will expire, and a given queue won't actually launch, even though people are queued for it, because the selected villain changes. The issue in those cases is not player population, nor popularity of the Alert - it's something endemic to the code. (And the Nighthawk debacle a couple of years ago made us players leery of demanding quick changes to the code; sometimes something that works well enough is preferable to "fixing" it until nothing works at all.)
What was being asked for in the referenced thread was reports of queues failing to launch, not empty queues. Given the amount of flavor text in this game, I would have expected anyone advanced enough to be playing STFs to be able to read for comprehension...
What was being asked for in the referenced thread was reports of queues failing to launch, not empty queues. Given the amount of flavor text in this game, I would have expected anyone advanced enough to be playing STFs to be able to read for comprehension...
Not sure how you'd come to this conclusion, other than being oblivious on purpose ...
Please report here which queues you are not able to queue up for due to lack of other members joining your PUG.
Notice how he said "due to lack of other members" and not "due to a Bug, with unseen Timer etc" ...
This is a survey to find our which queus are "empty" and takign the longest to pop up so we need Specific queue name and level type.
-> Yeah ... no ... and you're telling others about "reading comprehension" ... really ? ...
PS : Now, if you really wanna be desperate, you'll intepret the "empty" as he doesn't really mean it, because he put it in " " ... and ignore the other Quote completly ... go ahead ...
PPS : What has CO to do with STO ... last time I checked the villain doesn't change in STO ... so what's your point here ... nobody except yourself made that silly connection ... no CM, no DEV, not even Geko ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Why don't you queue up for No Win Scenario (Advanced), I'll go and have dinner and let's see if the queue has popped by the time I've finished my meal?
"Queuing up for No Win"
Why? Truth be told No Win should be taken off the queue and put into a team queue.
Over on CO, there's a minor bug with the Alert queues - sometimes an unseen timer will expire, and a given queue won't actually launch, even though people are queued for it, because the selected villain changes. The issue in those cases is not player population, nor popularity of the Alert - it's something endemic to the code. (And the Nighthawk debacle a couple of years ago made us players leery of demanding quick changes to the code; sometimes something that works well enough is preferable to "fixing" it until nothing works at all.)
What was being asked for in the referenced thread was reports of queues failing to launch, not empty queues. Given the amount of flavor text in this game, I would have expected anyone advanced enough to be playing STFs to be able to read for comprehension...
You can't spin the un-spin-able. It's been funny watching you twist yourself into knots trying though.
I "spin" nothing. I simply insist that words mean something.
Now, I understand that some have such hatred for Cryptic that they believe the company can do nothing right, that Cryptic is a hive of deliberate villainy that makes EA and SOE look good. I'm not here to debate that. I simply note that "queues are failing to launch" does NOT mean "queues are empty", and that the clearest implication of Cryptic's request for player help is that they are gazing upon the mystic Book of Metrics, casting runes and reading entrails, and the numbers they see would mean that said queues should launch.
"We thought they were launching, please tell us if they're not" is not semantically equal to "we have no idea how many people are playing the game". Is it really so terribly difficult to comprehend basic English? I mean, it's not like we're trying to interpret an act of Congress or something here...
I "spin" nothing. I simply insist that words mean something.
I simply note that "queues are failing to launch" does NOT mean "queues are empty",
What words are you talking about, nobody said that (your own words, maybe ?) ... sorry my reading comprehension doesn't include invisible "Brain-F***" ... Smirk just said "Queues are "Empty" & "they don't start due to lack of members" ...
... Seriously where are you gettin your Info from ... Psychic Readings, the CO Forums, NW Forums ? ... please show us ...
I "spin" nothing. I simply insist that words mean something.
Now, I understand that some have such hatred for Cryptic that they believe the company can do nothing right, that Cryptic is a hive of deliberate villainy that makes EA and SOE look good. I'm not here to debate that. I simply note that "queues are failing to launch" does NOT mean "queues are empty", and that the clearest implication of Cryptic's request for player help is that they are gazing upon the mystic Book of Metrics, casting runes and reading entrails, and the numbers they see would mean that said queues should launch.
"We thought they were launching, please tell us if they're not" is not semantically equal to "we have no idea how many people are playing the game". Is it really so terribly difficult to comprehend basic English? I mean, it's not like we're trying to interpret an act of Congress or something here...
It has nothing to do with hatred. It has to do with what Smirk said versus what you are making up on your own. Others have quoted Smirk many times and you have seemed to ignore it.
What words are you talking about, nobody said that (your own words, maybe ?) ... sorry my reading comprehension doesn't include invisible "Brain-F***" ... Smirk just said "Queues are "Empty" & "they don't start due to lack of members" ...
... Seriously where are you gettin your Info from ... Psychic Readings, the CO Forums, NW Forums ? ... please show us ...
If queues are failing to launch and not showing the correct number of players in the queue, then it gives the illusion that the queues are empty. Since the queues only appear to be empty, then players won't queue for those events. Therefore, queues failing to launch can lead to queues are empty.
Therefore, queues failing to launch can lead to queues are empty.
So could Global Warming & a Food Crisis, because everyone would be otherwise enganged ... see I can make up stuff myself, doesn't mean anyone said it ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
If queues are failing to launch and not showing the correct number of players in the queue, then it gives the illusion that the queues are empty. Since the queues only appear to be empty, then players won't queue for those events. Therefore, queues failing to launch can lead to queues are empty.
Yeah. Except that Geko said the alleged reporting error was fixed.
So could Global Warming & a Food Crisis, because everyone would be otherwise enganged ... see I can make up stuff myself, doesn't mean anyone said it ...
WHAT THE HECK AM I READING! Is this what drugs feel like?
If queues are failing to launch and not showing the correct number of players in the queue, then it gives the illusion that the queues are empty. Since the queues only appear to be empty, then players won't queue for those events. Therefore, queues failing to launch can lead to queues are empty.
Smirk specifically says that they want info on queues that fail to launch due to a lack of players. Empty queues. He makes no mention of a queue reporting bug and Geko said that the queue reporting issue has been fixed.
WHAT THE HECK AM I READING! Is this what drugs feel like?
Nah, but you should look up *Sarcasm* ... of course it's nonsense, but so is "I believe it's a Bug from CO, and I base that assumption on nothing anyone ever said, except the voices in my head" ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Nah but you should look up *Sarcasm* ... of course it's nonsense, but so is "I believe it's a Bug from CO, and I base that assumption on nothing anyone ever said" ...
Second verse same as the first. Also I looked up sarcasm. Your words still looked insane. Back to the topic on hand.
The thing that made me think you was speaking in tongues the first time.
If queues are failing to launch and not showing the correct number of players in the queue, then it gives the illusion that the queues are empty. Since the queues only appear to be empty, then players won't queue for those events. Therefore, queues failing to launch can lead to queues are empty.
This looks logical. A 1+1=2 kind of deal. Now lets look at you said.
So could Global Warming & a Food Crisis, because everyone would be otherwise enganged ... see I can make up stuff myself, doesn't mean anyone said it ...
This feels like 1+potato=2. That potato scares me. It is an evil potato. An illogical potato. A Romulan potato.....
Smirk specifically says that they want info on queues that fail to launch due to a lack of players. Empty queues. He makes no mention of a queue reporting bug and Geko said that the queue reporting issue has been fixed.
Except that there is no player testing involved that I have seen to see if the queues are actually working properly. As I said before, if the queues aren't working properly, then players won't run the queues. It is really easy to determine if the queues are working properly. Have 5 Fleet members test it out by running some extremely unpopular queue at the same time while not on a team, then that unpopular queue should be up and running in less than a minute or at least show 5 members in that queue or else the queues are broken.
Seriously, stop taking everything the devs have said at face value. Things always get broken in a MMO. So the queue reporting issue might have been fixed for a couple of days, but some other bug might be causing it to not work properly. Without proof, saying that the Queues are working properly is merely speculation.
Except that there is no player testing involved that I have seen to see if the queues are actually working properly. As I said before, if the queues aren't working properly, then players won't run the queues.
Without proof, saying that the Queues are working properly is merely speculation.
Then what's the point of this survey anyway (doesn't make any sense) ... if what you're saying is true ... Smirk should / would have asked to test the Queues with 5+ Players etc ... assuming they don't have 5-20 people who could test it themselves ...
Does that mean "Mine Trap" & "Breaking the Planet" is bugged since 2012, while "The Breach" i.E. is bugged since DR ... otherwise how would you know the difference between "it's bugged" & "nobody plays it anymore", with such a survey ... besides, if they're broken & they know it, why test them at all ...
You don't ask people to test the speed of your car, if it has no wheels to begin with ...
PS : Without proof, saying that the Queues aren't working properly is merely speculation !
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
How can they know that is a reporting error if they don't have stats on which maps from the queue is being attempted?
The funny thing is, this isn't even the weakest story they've come up with by a long shot - you'd just assume they'd get better over time and being weeks from launch had plenty of time to potentially out-source a good bs story?
If you want to know which queues are empty you try launching you own game for once. All you have to do is open the browser.
But hey you don't even have to go in-game because it follows the logic, and I save the word logic for special moments like this, that 2-3 of the maps that have a low fail rate are still being played - everything else is being ignored.
I "spin" nothing. I simply insist that words mean something.
Now, I understand that some have such hatred for Cryptic that they believe the company can do nothing right, that Cryptic is a hive of deliberate villainy that makes EA and SOE look good. I'm not here to debate that. I simply note that "queues are failing to launch" does NOT mean "queues are empty", and that the clearest implication of Cryptic's request for player help is that they are gazing upon the mystic Book of Metrics, casting runes and reading entrails, and the numbers they see would mean that said queues should launch.
"We thought they were launching, please tell us if they're not" is not semantically equal to "we have no idea how many people are playing the game". Is it really so terribly difficult to comprehend basic English? I mean, it's not like we're trying to interpret an act of Congress or something here...
So why did they wait this long to bring this up? People have been saying the queues are empty for a month now and it takes them that long to admit there is a supposed bug? I think you're really fishing hard for some sort of half-baked justification for this bizarre behavior from Cryptic.
Also, seriously? Couldn't an internal team just do 3-4 hrs of testing by queuing up for events and collecting data on that? That would have taken, what, a day..
Why don't you queue up for No Win Scenario (Advanced), I'll go and have dinner and let's see if the queue has popped by the time I've finished my meal?
Nobody queues up for NWSA because most pugs will not win. You need private teams for that.
The fact of them asking the player base on the forums is to continue the company line that it is a technical problem. That being said, such a thing should be shown by their holy metrics (genuflected while saying that) as they have before stated that they can even tell how many wins/fails a specific mission has had.
Thus we are at the conclusion that: a, they are incompetent and unwilling to admit or believe it; b, completely full of themselves and out of touch with reality; c, they just blamed the player base without actually blaming them; d, some kind of mix of the three previously stated choices.
Those could have been easily brushed to the side if they had said e, they were looking to reconfirm their holy metrics (genuflected). But that's not what Smirk had asked.
PS: I'm sometimes wondering if they aren't taking lessons off the current USA administration. It's kind of scary how similar they are right at the moment. (Not all of it bad, there are some shinning moments to both)
Nobody queues up for NWSA because most pugs will not win. You need private teams for that.
Bad example.
Ok, how about Mine Trap?
Lets see: I never failed it with pugs enough to the point of not being rewarded much. Status: "I think I see a tumbleweed!" So lets try to build a team. Result: No one from fleet wants to join, barely got peeps from PublicESTF, and got no one from ESD=failed.
Bad example? How about Undine infiltration normal.
Status: Dead. Reason: Not enough reward. Result: "For crying out loud Jim, it's dead!"
I fear you got this figured backwards: they *do* have detailed metrics; and, of course, also for the empty queues. Geko and his 'strong mathematical skills' aren't stupid. So, if there's anything to admit, it would be that they full-well know which queues are empty, when, and to what degree, and at what time.
What they seem to be incapable of understanding is the *why?*. That would be an understandable shortcoming if not for the plethora of posts telling them that the overall policy of "Nerf it all!!!" is not really conducive to having any fun playing STFs.
I don't use the queues anymore because I'm too busy grinding for xp. Queued missions don't provide much xp wise, don't give very good rewards, and fail half the time with pugs. I don't feel like wasting time on them. I've seriously only queued up a handful of times since dr release. Which is crazy considering all I used to do was queued events.
Comments
Then, they ask us (remember, the useless minority of ungrateful whiners, their words, not mine) about the empty queues.
I'm sorry, but I'm really confused. Do they need us, or not ? Are the queues empty or is it a bug ?
Since Cryptic give us 2 opposed answer to your question, you can't blame the players for being confused.
Cryptic definitely has metrics. They just interpret them in a way that suits them instead of actually reading into them.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Well who knows ... , maybe their queue metrics are as accurate as their Specgate metrics were ...
I have been to busy playing Eve, I didn't notice the thread while it was open.
LMAO
Metrics... ya.
I mean when there lying we know it... no one really believed they had a very good metric system. Still when they admit it in an end around like this... you can't help but laugh really hard out loud. (not just the typed lol... really I'm having a good belly laugh right now)
Over on CO, there's a minor bug with the Alert queues - sometimes an unseen timer will expire, and a given queue won't actually launch, even though people are queued for it, because the selected villain changes. The issue in those cases is not player population, nor popularity of the Alert - it's something endemic to the code. (And the Nighthawk debacle a couple of years ago made us players leery of demanding quick changes to the code; sometimes something that works well enough is preferable to "fixing" it until nothing works at all.)
What was being asked for in the referenced thread was reports of queues failing to launch, not empty queues. Given the amount of flavor text in this game, I would have expected anyone advanced enough to be playing STFs to be able to read for comprehension...
Not sure how you'd come to this conclusion, other than being oblivious on purpose ...
Notice how he said "due to lack of other members" and not "due to a Bug, with unseen Timer etc" ...
-> Yeah ... no ... and you're telling others about "reading comprehension" ... really ? ...
PS : Now, if you really wanna be desperate, you'll intepret the "empty" as he doesn't really mean it, because he put it in " " ... and ignore the other Quote completly ... go ahead ...
PPS : What has CO to do with STO ... last time I checked the villain doesn't change in STO ... so what's your point here ... nobody except yourself made that silly connection ... no CM, no DEV, not even Geko ...
"Queuing up for No Win"
Why? Truth be told No Win should be taken off the queue and put into a team queue.
You can't spin the un-spin-able. It's been funny watching you twist yourself into knots trying though.
Free Tibet!
Now, I understand that some have such hatred for Cryptic that they believe the company can do nothing right, that Cryptic is a hive of deliberate villainy that makes EA and SOE look good. I'm not here to debate that. I simply note that "queues are failing to launch" does NOT mean "queues are empty", and that the clearest implication of Cryptic's request for player help is that they are gazing upon the mystic Book of Metrics, casting runes and reading entrails, and the numbers they see would mean that said queues should launch.
"We thought they were launching, please tell us if they're not" is not semantically equal to "we have no idea how many people are playing the game". Is it really so terribly difficult to comprehend basic English? I mean, it's not like we're trying to interpret an act of Congress or something here...
What words are you talking about, nobody said that (your own words, maybe ?) ... sorry my reading comprehension doesn't include invisible "Brain-F***" ... Smirk just said "Queues are "Empty" & "they don't start due to lack of members" ...
... Seriously where are you gettin your Info from ... Psychic Readings, the CO Forums, NW Forums ? ... please show us ...
-> can't find any of these "meaningful words" here :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1330751
It has nothing to do with hatred. It has to do with what Smirk said versus what you are making up on your own. Others have quoted Smirk many times and you have seemed to ignore it.
If queues are failing to launch and not showing the correct number of players in the queue, then it gives the illusion that the queues are empty. Since the queues only appear to be empty, then players won't queue for those events. Therefore, queues failing to launch can lead to queues are empty.
So could Global Warming & a Food Crisis, because everyone would be otherwise enganged ... see I can make up stuff myself, doesn't mean anyone said it ...
Yeah. Except that Geko said the alleged reporting error was fixed.
WHAT THE HECK AM I READING! Is this what drugs feel like?
Smirk specifically says that they want info on queues that fail to launch due to a lack of players. Empty queues. He makes no mention of a queue reporting bug and Geko said that the queue reporting issue has been fixed.
Free Tibet!
Nah, but you should look up *Sarcasm* ... of course it's nonsense, but so is "I believe it's a Bug from CO, and I base that assumption on nothing anyone ever said, except the voices in my head" ...
Second verse same as the first. Also I looked up sarcasm. Your words still looked insane. Back to the topic on hand.
The thing that made me think you was speaking in tongues the first time.
This looks logical. A 1+1=2 kind of deal. Now lets look at you said.
This feels like 1+potato=2. That potato scares me. It is an evil potato. An illogical potato. A Romulan potato.....
THAT POTATO IS A TAL'SHIAR SPY!
Except that there is no player testing involved that I have seen to see if the queues are actually working properly. As I said before, if the queues aren't working properly, then players won't run the queues. It is really easy to determine if the queues are working properly. Have 5 Fleet members test it out by running some extremely unpopular queue at the same time while not on a team, then that unpopular queue should be up and running in less than a minute or at least show 5 members in that queue or else the queues are broken.
Seriously, stop taking everything the devs have said at face value. Things always get broken in a MMO. So the queue reporting issue might have been fixed for a couple of days, but some other bug might be causing it to not work properly. Without proof, saying that the Queues are working properly is merely speculation.
You should tell that to jonsills ... that's how this started ... except, he made up what they said, and told everyone to read what's in his head ...
So you didn't ? ... because they're supposed to look insane ... that's how "sarcasm" works ...
Then what's the point of this survey anyway (doesn't make any sense) ... if what you're saying is true ... Smirk should / would have asked to test the Queues with 5+ Players etc ... assuming they don't have 5-20 people who could test it themselves ...
Does that mean "Mine Trap" & "Breaking the Planet" is bugged since 2012, while "The Breach" i.E. is bugged since DR ... otherwise how would you know the difference between "it's bugged" & "nobody plays it anymore", with such a survey ... besides, if they're broken & they know it, why test them at all ...
You don't ask people to test the speed of your car, if it has no wheels to begin with ...
PS : Without proof, saying that the Queues aren't working properly is merely speculation !
The funny thing is, this isn't even the weakest story they've come up with by a long shot - you'd just assume they'd get better over time and being weeks from launch had plenty of time to potentially out-source a good bs story?
If you want to know which queues are empty you try launching you own game for once. All you have to do is open the browser.
But hey you don't even have to go in-game because it follows the logic, and I save the word logic for special moments like this, that 2-3 of the maps that have a low fail rate are still being played - everything else is being ignored.
So why did they wait this long to bring this up? People have been saying the queues are empty for a month now and it takes them that long to admit there is a supposed bug? I think you're really fishing hard for some sort of half-baked justification for this bizarre behavior from Cryptic.
Also, seriously? Couldn't an internal team just do 3-4 hrs of testing by queuing up for events and collecting data on that? That would have taken, what, a day..
Nobody queues up for NWSA because most pugs will not win. You need private teams for that.
Bad example.
Thus we are at the conclusion that: a, they are incompetent and unwilling to admit or believe it; b, completely full of themselves and out of touch with reality; c, they just blamed the player base without actually blaming them; d, some kind of mix of the three previously stated choices.
Those could have been easily brushed to the side if they had said e, they were looking to reconfirm their holy metrics (genuflected). But that's not what Smirk had asked.
PS: I'm sometimes wondering if they aren't taking lessons off the current USA administration. It's kind of scary how similar they are right at the moment. (Not all of it bad, there are some shinning moments to both)
Ok, how about Mine Trap?
Lets see: I never failed it with pugs enough to the point of not being rewarded much. Status: "I think I see a tumbleweed!" So lets try to build a team. Result: No one from fleet wants to join, barely got peeps from PublicESTF, and got no one from ESD=failed.
Bad example? How about Undine infiltration normal.
Status: Dead. Reason: Not enough reward. Result: "For crying out loud Jim, it's dead!"
What they seem to be incapable of understanding is the *why?*. That would be an understandable shortcoming if not for the plethora of posts telling them that the overall policy of "Nerf it all!!!" is not really conducive to having any fun playing STFs.
It never happened and so no responsibility.
Everything in DR was great, EVERYTHING. There were zero bugs, zero problem and EVERYONE loves EVERYTHING abou it, PERIOD
To admit the queues are empty is to admit to the problem(s) and we can't very well have that can we
Because then the players going to ask them to put in work and as you very well remember, we don't include the forums or the players