15 could be manageable. I'm just concerned about lag. User Ships seem to generate more lag than ground toons. Especially if we're giving the Borg the ability to spam their abilities.
Exactly why the number of ships vs the abilities of those ships remains at one constant level as the waves progress, more abilities in the more difficult ships, but drastically fewer of them.
If we do 15, then we could do 3 lanes that scales like Tides of Ice.
Which has been a huge hit!
Imagine the Borg coming in at different Vectors per wave, making it a choice, split up the group per lane, or take the entire group lane to lane as the waves progress?
Additionally, different levels of defenses in different lanes and waves being timed adds another layer; Do you divert your forces to the well defended lane while there are still forces from the previous wave in the less defended lane? Can the defenses there hold against the more difficult wave that's arriving?
Of course, all of that becomes null & void once the Cube/Unimatrix Command vessel arrives, that becomes the priority target, because if it survives, the instance fails.
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
Exactly why the number of ships vs the abilities of those ships remains at one constant level as the waves progress, more abilities in the more difficult ships, but drastically fewer of them.
Which has been a huge hit!
Imagine the Borg coming in at different Vectors per wave, making it a choice, split up the group per lane, or take the entire group lane to lane as the waves progress?
Additionally, different levels of defenses in different lanes and waves being timed adds another layer; Do you divert your forces to the well defended lane while there are still forces from the previous wave in the less defended lane? Can the defenses there hold against the more difficult wave that's arriving?
Of course, all of that becomes null & void once the Cube/Unimatrix Command vessel arrives, that becomes the priority target, because if it survives, the instance fails.
Needs to be simple. Remember, the red alerts are simple. Search and destroy plus there's no actual communications really. So that's why I suggest kind of like Undine assault, in which you can see on the screen, the progress of the zone as the fighting proceeds. Once you secure the three lanes, it'd be random. You're either engaging this super tac cube, or you're cutting off the retreat of the command ship. On the minimap, you'd have a constant updating of the target and its progress. The command ship is on a timer to escape and the super cube is the last ditch effort to destroy the target.
Needs to be simple. Remember, the red alerts are simple. Search and destroy plus there's no actual communications really. So that's why I suggest kind of like Undine assault, in which you can see on the screen, the progress of the zone as the fighting proceeds. Once you secure the three lanes, it'd be random. You're either engaging this super tac cube, or you're cutting off the retreat of the command ship. On the minimap, you'd have a constant updating of the target and its progress. The command ship is on a timer to escape and the super cube is the last ditch effort to destroy the target.
That sounds like a good compromise between complex tactical wargaming and mind-numbingly simple pew pew.
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
That sounds like a good compromise between complex tactical wargaming and mind-numbingly simple pew pew.
as long as there's something on the HUD that allows you to see the overall instance progress. You could go "ohh, top lane's really getting their TRIBBLE handed to them, let's go check on them."
some of the Sector RAs will have NPCs assisting you and some will be just the player ships. Maybe the HUD could let us know there's ships in that lane?
We have to consider that there will be zero communications between the players in that instance and that it needs to be scaled. Some instances may not be fillable, due to one or two active players in that sector block who responded to the RA
as long as there's something on the HUD that allows you to see the overall instance progress. You could go "ohh, top lane's really getting their TRIBBLE handed to them, let's go check on them."
some of the Sector RAs will have NPCs assisting you and some will be just the player ships. Maybe the HUD could let us know there's ships in that lane?
We have to consider that there will be zero communications between the players in that instance and that it needs to be scaled. Some instances may not be fillable, due to one or two active players in that sector block who responded to the RA
The Lane defenses update bars from the Tides of Ice or the Dyson Sphere Battlezones could be adapted for this.
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
Fantastic idea, OP! I would be thrilled to see something along these lines.
I agree, also, with the poster who suggested that the Borg generally could use an overhaul. That's probably an idea for another thread, however.
I'm sure it would be a non-trivial amount of work, but with the addition of the Borg Cooperative in Delta Rising, there might be a good opportunity to finally give the Collective its due.
The remastered Red Alerts might each have the same core objective: prevent the Borg from getting what they want. Each red alert would be basically the same, albeit with different visuals and a different defense mechanic.
Sirius: It's a tough call between Vulcan and Andor. Both are gorgeous space maps, and both would offer cool defensive options -- call in Vulcan ships, or call in Andorian ships. Regulus: I can see the Borg going after something in the Briar Patch, not necessarily Ba'ku. The hazards of the Briar Patch might make for some interesting defensive options. Alpha Centauri: I can really see the Borg going after Memory Alpha here. It's a great opportunity to reuse a nice space map, and who knows what kind of crazy experimental technology one might wield in its defense?
Beta Ursae: I think defending DS9 or Bajor is an awesome choice here. It's the kind of killer showdown I'd love to see. Time to dust off the Defiant and those sweet rotary phaser turrets. Zeta Andromedae: Clearly, the Borg would have an interest in assimilating the New Link in the Orias system. I can see some of the Alpha Jem'Hadar helping to defend. Alpha Trianguli: This one's tough, but I think the best candidate would be the Trivas System. Help the Cardassians defend Empok Nor, I guess?
Deferaseems pretty self-explanatory
Iota Pavonis: The Borg would totally go for Iconia, hoping to unearth something about the new threat. Deploy Romulans to help defend it! Psi Velorum: I really think the Borg would want to get their hands on the Vault. Granted, it's perhaps over-used... but defending it could be a lot of fun, provided the Tholians aren't involved. Tau Dewa: I can see the Borg going after the Iconian gateway for sure. Deploy swarmers and Iconian probes, I guess?
Pi Canis: Is there any question? The Borg want to get their hands on the Guardian of Forever. I think it would be pretty cool if you could cause a temporal anomaly which would give you a random selection of allies from different time periods -- you might get a Wells, you might get an old D-7 or NX. Eta Eridani: This would be a great opportunity to use the Federation or Klingon Fleet systems in a non-Fleet Alert way, or perhaps the Borg are after Nukara. Or we might see what the heck is so interesting about Ker'rat in the first place. Omega Leonis: Lots of good choices here, but I'd give my vote to Forcas (of the existing systems). It's densely populated, so we might get to deploy various KDF ships to defend.
Gamma Orionis: Let's use the Mutara Nebula. Maybe the Borg are interested in the protomatter from the Genesis explosion. Our shields might not work, but neither will theirs...
Delta Quadrant: These should be pretty nightmarish in difficulty. The Borg would totally be after the Jenolan Dyson Sphere, and they'd probably want to get their hands on the Vaadwaur homeworld after the recent shenanigans.
We could try an experiment along these lines and build something close to this in the foundry, then the devs would have a base to build off of to make it fully running in the game.
We could try an experiment along these lines and build something close to this in the foundry, then the devs would have a base to build off of to make it fully running in the game.
quite possible, but we need a fail option if a ship is destroyed rather than by dialogue
The remastered Red Alerts might each have the same core objective: prevent the Borg from getting what they want. Each red alert would be basically the same, albeit with different visuals and a different defense mechanic.
Like Undine Assault, each area should have the people from those worlds assisting in any way possible. So if you're defending Cardassia Prime, then maybe Galor Cruisers can lend a hand? It would also be interesting if other species still held a grudge, even if you're trying to help. So let's say the True Way decides that they will try to stab you in the back while you're fighting the Borg. Then a bonus objective could be to disable or destroy the True Way vessels?
If the Borg are to attack Iconia, then it would be neat if maybe the Elachi appear and fight both the players and the Borg? Or maybe even Vaadwaur mysteriously show up to fight? I just really like it when several major powers get into a multi-way fight. Like Voth fighting the Borg and Undine at the same time. Let's fight the Borg at Nukara but also Tholians because they pick on everybody.
Like Undine Assault, each area should have the people from those worlds assisting in any way possible. So if you're defending Cardassia Prime, then maybe Galor Cruisers can lend a hand? It would also be interesting if other species still held a grudge, even if you're trying to help. So let's say the True Way decides that they will try to stab you in the back while you're fighting the Borg. Then a bonus objective could be to disable or destroy the True Way vessels?
If the Borg are to attack Iconia, then it would be neat if maybe the Elachi appear and fight both the players and the Borg? Or maybe even Vaadwaur mysteriously show up to fight? I just really like it when several major powers get into a multi-way fight. Like Voth fighting the Borg and Undine at the same time. Let's fight the Borg at Nukara but also Tholians because they pick on everybody.
you want to keep the red alerts simple and 'easy' to learn
you want to keep the red alerts simple and 'easy' to learn
Agreed. Too many opposing forces and the players might get all focused on taking down the big shiny Tholian ship and forget about that rather glum looking Sphere sneaking past the defensive lines..
Original Join Date: January 2010. Ragequit Date: January 7th 2012. Return Date: October 23rd 2014.
Agreed. Too many opposing forces and the players might get all focused on taking down the big shiny Tholian ship and forget about that rather glum looking Sphere sneaking past the defensive lines..
my thoughts exactly.
Some sector blocks should be unique... but the difference shouldn't be difficult to figure out.
I like the Klingons defending runa pethe because it's a chance to kill borg, but they dont care if the prisoners die.
Defera would be "Let none approach!"
Hifhilar would be "don't let the refugees die!" especially after all the blood and sweat you poured in helping them evacuate in minetrap.
I think 15 players is asking for a miracle. Remember, alerts out in the galactic boonies (aka Iota Pavonis, Psi Velorum, Zeta Andromadae, etc.) are lucky to get one full instance of 5 players at certain times of day. Sector blocks that don't have a social hub (starbase, command, adventure zone) generally have a much lower player count. If you design the content to a difficulty level that requires 10+ people to complete then you're guaranteeing that these low-population sector blocks are going to fail a lot of Red Alerts. You also have to take into account level disparity. Different levels of players will be clustered in different sector blocks depending on which episode story arc they're doing, so you'll get a low of low-level players in Alpha Centauri for example, while Beta Ursae will see a wider mix of player levels with a lot more 50s and 60s.
Now if these low-population areas had different RAs that needed fewer players that could be workable. Say a high-population block like Beta Ursae or Sirius sector has a big defend the planet with lanes style RA while a backwoods sector like Iota Pavonis has a simpler RA with no lanes, say, I dunno, rescuing clusters of freighters (like the Defera daily sector freighter rescue, except Borg instead of Breen) until the unimatrix gets angry and shows up.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
I think 15 players is asking for a miracle. Remember, alerts out in the galactic boonies (aka Iota Pavonis, Psi Velorum, Zeta Andromadae, etc.) are lucky to get one full instance of 5 players at certain times of day. Sector blocks that don't have a social hub (starbase, command, adventure zone) generally have a much lower player count. If you design the content to a difficulty level that requires 10+ people to complete then you're guaranteeing that these low-population sector blocks are going to fail a lot of Red Alerts. You also have to take into account level disparity. Different levels of players will be clustered in different sector blocks depending on which episode story arc they're doing, so you'll get a low of low-level players in Alpha Centauri for example, while Beta Ursae will see a wider mix of player levels with a lot more 50s and 60s.
Now if these low-population areas had different RAs that needed fewer players that could be workable. Say a high-population block like Beta Ursae or Sirius sector has a big defend the planet with lanes style RA while a backwoods sector like Iota Pavonis has a simpler RA with no lanes, say, I dunno, rescuing clusters of freighters (like the Defera daily sector freighter rescue, except Borg instead of Breen) until the unimatrix gets angry and shows up.
Maybe the "Red Alert" button could work along the lines of Transwarp. The Borg appear in a sector/sectors, hit the Red Alert button and a list of Borg encounters comes up that way if you are in Sirius Sector and a Borg pops in Defera you can be alerted and then choose whether or not you want to try and fight that lvl of encounter.
I think 15 players is asking for a miracle. Remember, alerts out in the galactic boonies (aka Iota Pavonis, Psi Velorum, Zeta Andromadae, etc.) are lucky to get one full instance of 5 players at certain times of day. Sector blocks that don't have a social hub (starbase, command, adventure zone) generally have a much lower player count. If you design the content to a difficulty level that requires 10+ people to complete then you're guaranteeing that these low-population sector blocks are going to fail a lot of Red Alerts. You also have to take into account level disparity. Different levels of players will be clustered in different sector blocks depending on which episode story arc they're doing, so you'll get a low of low-level players in Alpha Centauri for example, while Beta Ursae will see a wider mix of player levels with a lot more 50s and 60s.
Now if these low-population areas had different RAs that needed fewer players that could be workable. Say a high-population block like Beta Ursae or Sirius sector has a big defend the planet with lanes style RA while a backwoods sector like Iota Pavonis has a simpler RA with no lanes, say, I dunno, rescuing clusters of freighters (like the Defera daily sector freighter rescue, except Borg instead of Breen) until the unimatrix gets angry and shows up.
I like that idea. More densely populated would have more... complex RAs
Maybe the "Red Alert" button could work along the lines of Transwarp. The Borg appear in a sector/sectors, hit the Red Alert button and a list of Borg encounters comes up that way if you are in Sirius Sector and a Borg pops in Defera you can be alerted and then choose whether or not you want to try and fight that lvl of encounter.
Now THAT would be pretty useful. There has long been a REDALERT chat channel in game where players can call out borg/tholian red alerts to let other players know where they are, but it still takes time to actually fly out there (you might be too late when you get there), and players don't use the channel as much as in the old days so a lot don't even get called out. If the Red Alert button could act as a transwarp, or at the least open up a list of active alerts that you'd still need to fly to, it's be easier to get the number of players needed to do a potentially harder revamped Alert.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Now THAT would be pretty useful. There has long been a REDALERT chat channel in game where players can call out borg/tholian red alerts to let other players know where they are, but it still takes time to actually fly out there (you might be too late when you get there), and players don't use the channel as much as in the old days so a lot don't even get called out. If the Red Alert button could act as a transwarp, or at the least open up a list of active alerts that you'd still need to fly to, it's be easier to get the number of players needed to do a potentially harder revamped Alert.
I believe that system already exists on new romulus
It's been a while since I lurked around on New Romulus but yes as I recall it'll transport you directly there instead of requiring you to use the physical transporter network/nodes.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
It's been a while since I lurked around on New Romulus but yes as I recall it'll transport you directly there instead of requiring you to use the physical transporter network/nodes.
Comments
Exactly why the number of ships vs the abilities of those ships remains at one constant level as the waves progress, more abilities in the more difficult ships, but drastically fewer of them.
Which has been a huge hit!
Imagine the Borg coming in at different Vectors per wave, making it a choice, split up the group per lane, or take the entire group lane to lane as the waves progress?
Additionally, different levels of defenses in different lanes and waves being timed adds another layer; Do you divert your forces to the well defended lane while there are still forces from the previous wave in the less defended lane? Can the defenses there hold against the more difficult wave that's arriving?
Of course, all of that becomes null & void once the Cube/Unimatrix Command vessel arrives, that becomes the priority target, because if it survives, the instance fails.
Almost called it.
Needs to be simple. Remember, the red alerts are simple. Search and destroy plus there's no actual communications really. So that's why I suggest kind of like Undine assault, in which you can see on the screen, the progress of the zone as the fighting proceeds. Once you secure the three lanes, it'd be random. You're either engaging this super tac cube, or you're cutting off the retreat of the command ship. On the minimap, you'd have a constant updating of the target and its progress. The command ship is on a timer to escape and the super cube is the last ditch effort to destroy the target.
That sounds like a good compromise between complex tactical wargaming and mind-numbingly simple pew pew.
Almost called it.
as long as there's something on the HUD that allows you to see the overall instance progress. You could go "ohh, top lane's really getting their TRIBBLE handed to them, let's go check on them."
some of the Sector RAs will have NPCs assisting you and some will be just the player ships. Maybe the HUD could let us know there's ships in that lane?
We have to consider that there will be zero communications between the players in that instance and that it needs to be scaled. Some instances may not be fillable, due to one or two active players in that sector block who responded to the RA
The Lane defenses update bars from the Tides of Ice or the Dyson Sphere Battlezones could be adapted for this.
Almost called it.
I do hope the devs are reading this and this helps give them brainstorms.
I should point out that it should be simple! Once a lane has been taken, cleared and secured, it cannot be retaken by the Borg.
I agree, also, with the poster who suggested that the Borg generally could use an overhaul. That's probably an idea for another thread, however.
I'm sure it would be a non-trivial amount of work, but with the addition of the Borg Cooperative in Delta Rising, there might be a good opportunity to finally give the Collective its due.
The remastered Red Alerts might each have the same core objective: prevent the Borg from getting what they want. Each red alert would be basically the same, albeit with different visuals and a different defense mechanic.
Sirius: It's a tough call between Vulcan and Andor. Both are gorgeous space maps, and both would offer cool defensive options -- call in Vulcan ships, or call in Andorian ships.
Regulus: I can see the Borg going after something in the Briar Patch, not necessarily Ba'ku. The hazards of the Briar Patch might make for some interesting defensive options.
Alpha Centauri: I can really see the Borg going after Memory Alpha here. It's a great opportunity to reuse a nice space map, and who knows what kind of crazy experimental technology one might wield in its defense?
Beta Ursae: I think defending DS9 or Bajor is an awesome choice here. It's the kind of killer showdown I'd love to see. Time to dust off the Defiant and those sweet rotary phaser turrets.
Zeta Andromedae: Clearly, the Borg would have an interest in assimilating the New Link in the Orias system. I can see some of the Alpha Jem'Hadar helping to defend.
Alpha Trianguli: This one's tough, but I think the best candidate would be the Trivas System. Help the Cardassians defend Empok Nor, I guess?
Defera seems pretty self-explanatory
Iota Pavonis: The Borg would totally go for Iconia, hoping to unearth something about the new threat. Deploy Romulans to help defend it!
Psi Velorum: I really think the Borg would want to get their hands on the Vault. Granted, it's perhaps over-used... but defending it could be a lot of fun, provided the Tholians aren't involved.
Tau Dewa: I can see the Borg going after the Iconian gateway for sure. Deploy swarmers and Iconian probes, I guess?
Pi Canis: Is there any question? The Borg want to get their hands on the Guardian of Forever. I think it would be pretty cool if you could cause a temporal anomaly which would give you a random selection of allies from different time periods -- you might get a Wells, you might get an old D-7 or NX.
Eta Eridani: This would be a great opportunity to use the Federation or Klingon Fleet systems in a non-Fleet Alert way, or perhaps the Borg are after Nukara. Or we might see what the heck is so interesting about Ker'rat in the first place.
Omega Leonis: Lots of good choices here, but I'd give my vote to Forcas (of the existing systems). It's densely populated, so we might get to deploy various KDF ships to defend.
Gamma Orionis: Let's use the Mutara Nebula. Maybe the Borg are interested in the protomatter from the Genesis explosion. Our shields might not work, but neither will theirs...
Delta Quadrant: These should be pretty nightmarish in difficulty. The Borg would totally be after the Jenolan Dyson Sphere, and they'd probably want to get their hands on the Vaadwaur homeworld after the recent shenanigans.
quite possible, but we need a fail option if a ship is destroyed rather than by dialogue
Like Undine Assault, each area should have the people from those worlds assisting in any way possible. So if you're defending Cardassia Prime, then maybe Galor Cruisers can lend a hand? It would also be interesting if other species still held a grudge, even if you're trying to help. So let's say the True Way decides that they will try to stab you in the back while you're fighting the Borg. Then a bonus objective could be to disable or destroy the True Way vessels?
If the Borg are to attack Iconia, then it would be neat if maybe the Elachi appear and fight both the players and the Borg? Or maybe even Vaadwaur mysteriously show up to fight? I just really like it when several major powers get into a multi-way fight. Like Voth fighting the Borg and Undine at the same time. Let's fight the Borg at Nukara but also Tholians because they pick on everybody.
you want to keep the red alerts simple and 'easy' to learn
Agreed. Too many opposing forces and the players might get all focused on taking down the big shiny Tholian ship and forget about that rather glum looking Sphere sneaking past the defensive lines..
Almost called it.
my thoughts exactly.
Some sector blocks should be unique... but the difference shouldn't be difficult to figure out.
I like the Klingons defending runa pethe because it's a chance to kill borg, but they dont care if the prisoners die.
Defera would be "Let none approach!"
Hifhilar would be "don't let the refugees die!" especially after all the blood and sweat you poured in helping them evacuate in minetrap.
Now if these low-population areas had different RAs that needed fewer players that could be workable. Say a high-population block like Beta Ursae or Sirius sector has a big defend the planet with lanes style RA while a backwoods sector like Iota Pavonis has a simpler RA with no lanes, say, I dunno, rescuing clusters of freighters (like the Defera daily sector freighter rescue, except Borg instead of Breen) until the unimatrix gets angry and shows up.
Joined January 2009
Maybe the "Red Alert" button could work along the lines of Transwarp. The Borg appear in a sector/sectors, hit the Red Alert button and a list of Borg encounters comes up that way if you are in Sirius Sector and a Borg pops in Defera you can be alerted and then choose whether or not you want to try and fight that lvl of encounter.
I like that idea. More densely populated would have more... complex RAs
Now THAT would be pretty useful. There has long been a REDALERT chat channel in game where players can call out borg/tholian red alerts to let other players know where they are, but it still takes time to actually fly out there (you might be too late when you get there), and players don't use the channel as much as in the old days so a lot don't even get called out. If the Red Alert button could act as a transwarp, or at the least open up a list of active alerts that you'd still need to fly to, it's be easier to get the number of players needed to do a potentially harder revamped Alert.
Joined January 2009
I believe that system already exists on new romulus
Joined January 2009
once you complete the transporter missions, yes
I used to love that version.