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lyzra001
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
I am slightly clueless of current state of things in STO.
What i am trying to be after is cheap/reasonable cheap build for this ship, where i can actually run advanced STF's. I am personally a science captain.
I do have Access five in romulan and omega. I am pushing the rest 'new' reputations towards fives, tho most are still between three's and fours.
First, im puzzled at what weapons to put into this ship, fine it can put dual heavy cannons, but dont I run this as a proper science ship with aux on max? Besides as science ship i need to keep moving to keep defence up, which makes me kinda difficutl to frontal face with 45 cone and sit, when being shot to hell.
Back to build though.
Ensing universal:
beam fire at will 1
Liutenant intelligence/tactical:
beam fire at will 1, attack pattern beta 1
Lt. Commander engineer:
emergency power to shields 1, auxiliary to emergency battery 1, emergency power to weapons 3
Commander intelligence/science:
override subsystem safeties 1, kinetic magnet 1, tykens rift 2, gravity well 3
Lt.Commander science:
Science team, Hazard emitter 2, Transfer shield strenght 3
As for duty officers:
Deflector officers x 3 whom have chance of reducing deflector abilities cooldown.
Gravimetric scientist for gravity well aftershocks.
Technician whom lowers the bridge officer skill cooldown when using aux to bat.
For weapons i do suppose three beam arrays front, kinetic cutting beam back and maybe two more ordinary beams. I suppose i could get that fancy romulan beam aswell.
Or is there any hope for a torpedoboat builds?
For gear i suppose any half decent warpcore is ok, especially if it boosts aux max.
Solanae deflector?
What kind of a shield, engine should i be considering? or set bonuses?
As far console slots go, I could imagine ordinary letsay plus plasma damages for tacticals.
Science goes fullout on particle genrators and engineering is where i have little leeway to put in universal console or two, or a fancy turnaround ones.
(I do have Access to fleet, so i can use -threat science consoles and those that give little bit extra plasma damage.)
As far traits go, question becomes are some of them dealbreakers. I do have Access to rank 4 precision from romulan reputation. I will soon have those tied to aux power from nukara reputation, what should I take as the fourth one?
I do not have Access to the trait from r&d science 15, which increases exotic damage crits insanely.
I suppose my thoughts are around advanced STF's and is it viable to build tachyon beam shield drainer science ships and still do fine with them, or are we forced because of strenght ogf gravity well and other fuss to use these other builds to be able to carry our weight.
What i am trying to be after is cheap/reasonable cheap build for this ship, where i can actually run advanced STF's. I am personally a science captain.
I do have Access five in romulan and omega. I am pushing the rest 'new' reputations towards fives, tho most are still between three's and fours.
First, im puzzled at what weapons to put into this ship, fine it can put dual heavy cannons, but dont I run this as a proper science ship with aux on max? Besides as science ship i need to keep moving to keep defence up, which makes me kinda difficutl to frontal face with 45 cone and sit, when being shot to hell.
Back to build though.
Ensing universal:
beam fire at will 1
Liutenant intelligence/tactical:
beam fire at will 1, attack pattern beta 1
Lt. Commander engineer:
emergency power to shields 1, auxiliary to emergency battery 1, emergency power to weapons 3
Commander intelligence/science:
override subsystem safeties 1, kinetic magnet 1, tykens rift 2, gravity well 3
Lt.Commander science:
Science team, Hazard emitter 2, Transfer shield strenght 3
As for duty officers:
Deflector officers x 3 whom have chance of reducing deflector abilities cooldown.
Gravimetric scientist for gravity well aftershocks.
Technician whom lowers the bridge officer skill cooldown when using aux to bat.
For weapons i do suppose three beam arrays front, kinetic cutting beam back and maybe two more ordinary beams. I suppose i could get that fancy romulan beam aswell.
Or is there any hope for a torpedoboat builds?
For gear i suppose any half decent warpcore is ok, especially if it boosts aux max.
Solanae deflector?
What kind of a shield, engine should i be considering? or set bonuses?
As far console slots go, I could imagine ordinary letsay plus plasma damages for tacticals.
Science goes fullout on particle genrators and engineering is where i have little leeway to put in universal console or two, or a fancy turnaround ones.
(I do have Access to fleet, so i can use -threat science consoles and those that give little bit extra plasma damage.)
As far traits go, question becomes are some of them dealbreakers. I do have Access to rank 4 precision from romulan reputation. I will soon have those tied to aux power from nukara reputation, what should I take as the fourth one?
I do not have Access to the trait from r&d science 15, which increases exotic damage crits insanely.
I suppose my thoughts are around advanced STF's and is it viable to build tachyon beam shield drainer science ships and still do fine with them, or are we forced because of strenght ogf gravity well and other fuss to use these other builds to be able to carry our weight.
Post edited by lyzra001 on
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Comments
just a few comments:
If a ship can euqip dual cannons, then it does not mean it has to. The scryer is a proper science vessel and can be used as such.
Aux2bat and science is a bad combo, because you won´t have aux while using it and aux is what your sci abilities need (gravwell, heals, etc). For eng you could cycle EPtS and EPtAux. Aux2SIF as hull heal benefits from the high aux. (Also, one copy of Aux2Bat is not useful anyway I think)
At least one tactical team will save your life a lot
Yes, torpedoes are a scientists friend. You will not have the firepower to kill with beams anyway. Use these, the beams, for subsystem targeting and to apply procs (plasma in your case).
Gear wise, solanae set is free and an excellent choice for an exotic a´damage science vessel.
See also this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1322971
and this for info on skill on gear: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1297581
Hope this helps.
While I'm still experimenting, I do find it's worthwhile combining the Delta 2-piece (Torpedo and Console) in addition to the CC Tactical Console (from Surface Tension, IIRC) and the Biomolecular Torp (CC torp) for the incredible Radiation DoTs. Additionally, the CC Tac Console also boosts the basic 2ndary Deflector's Radiation DoT as well, making builds using Tyken or the boosted Single-target abilities even more useful.
I'm also still experimenting with using CC Disruptors or Phasers just to capitalize on the CC Tac Console and the Radiation damage and movement Debuff, and thus far seems to work nicely. Much better than trying to get the Radiation damage from Thoron-Polaron weapons from the Delta Rep to work at least, and broadsiding with it between Sci skills works.
The other alternative I've also experimented with is just going full on torpedo boat using the base setup (Delta and CC Torp + listed consoles) with 2 AP-Omnis (Ancient + Crafted) and KCB on the rear and the Gravimetric Photon Torp (Dyson Torp) to add another specialist torp with minor Grav-well capability. This just allows me to play a bit more offensively and spam devastating TS Neutronics and Bios into GWell'd and Tyken Rifted clusters, on top of the occasional Gravimetric well/rift from the Dyson torp and both Omnis just providing use of the beam-related Debuffs and extra DPS.
The CC Rad build suffers from firing and ability arcs, while the torpedo build requires you tackle things head-on and hope you have a damn good defense and shield (I use the Dyson shield for both looks and it's bonus; use what you feel is best for you). Either way, Torpedoes are really the only way to go so that you can just maximize your Aux and Aux-related abilities.
Regardless of whether or not those two suggestions of mine interest you, with what you currently have, I'd like to suggest that Intel skill wise, use Ionic Turbulence in place of Kinetic Magnet (which was nerfed to reduce what kind of torps/mines it'd pull away). Why? Because it's an AoE Debuff that also stacks with Attack Pattern Beta in weakening armor to the point of being wet paper bags. By itself, it does a noble job of weakening armor of GWell'd and Tyken'd clusters.
To be slightly critical, this is not helpful.
Maingoal here was to ponder a cheap science build that allows you to stand at your own feet in advanced STF's. It was to ponder viability of certain types of science builds in the current state of STO.
Like, what kind of science builds can perform strong enough, so you are not being a handicap to your PUG team. I lack certain reputations and R&D traits, do these make particle generator builds impossible until I have the traits so i could perform in STF's.
I will not, period... have credits or enough research to build/have any specialized R&D 15 rating items in a long while. Not to mention materials which I NEED to get from advanced STF's.
Ill try to ask a little bit clearer, which science builds are viable, which are not?
To my eyes draining builds lack CC and thus your not able to use em properly for damage, nor you have enough cooldown to keep enemies on low power to slam torpedoes enough in them to drop them.
Crowd controlling, gravity well stuff is fine, but in that enemy has shields up. Shure well damage is getting through, but science R&D stat seems to be a dealbreaker trait to actually do damage through it.
Sheild draining builds seem to be more or less obsolete and useless?
Also in above suggestions to use multiple, differentype torps. Seriously, what? You will not get much damage out of your torpedoes if your shooting multiple types as you cant use tac slots to boost the torpedo damage properly.
In advanced STF's if you throw limp waterbiscuits, you wont kill enemies fast enough to hold your own.
Am I missing something here?
Have you guys actually tried to do advanced stfs in a science ship as a science captain with the recommended builds and they seemed to perform just fine?
Dont get me wrong, i do understand the logic and usefulness of some of the suggestions and examples. They just seem to rely on your team to babysit you and you are just making it easier for them, dont get me wrong that aint bad. Its just not something that happens in pugs, in them YOU need to pull your own weight in damage aswell, you cant rely on team unfortunately. You need to pick a lane and do it yourself.
The more I play around with it the more I see how flexible and capable the Scryer is. Making use of the intel powers is the key. I'd have OSS1, Ionic1, and SS1 on the cmdr seat (I can't give up GW3 though).
Edit: as for the torp suggestion, I don't believe outside of dedicated torpedo boats anyone runs projectile boosting consoles. But all of the torps being suggested (dyson, counter command, delta neutronic) all have really valuable secondary procs -- the mini grav wells of the dyson and the radiation of the CC and Delta torps. And if you are using the Adapted MACO 2-pc you get a fairly healthy bonus to torpedo damage.
1. A2B on the vast majority of Science builds is a no-no. The nuking of your Aux Power even for the sake of CD reduction kills what your ship is about. SCI ships slot many abilities that greatly depend on Aux Power for good performance. Drop A2B and you have more leeway in your ENG capability, like 2 EPTx and 1 ENG based repair ability. ASIF in a high aux build performs great as well as provide resists for a period of time.
2. You slotted Tyken's Rift alongside Grav Well. Both throw each other in shared cooldowns. You need to take note of your BOFF abilities: The best SCI abilities have somewhat long CDs and shared CDs makes it even worse.
3. Related to the previous point of TR slotted with GW, it's not optimal. Firstly, TR is more for a truly dedicated Drain Build (Flow Caps, Flow Caps, and more Flow Caps. Did I say to have even more Flow Caps? Well, you need MOAR Flow Caps). Secondly, you need to find a good style of SCI play to suit you. GW is ideal for Crowd Control and a decent Particle Generator based attack (PGen is Science's "damage" aspect). Drain Builds heavily rely on Tyken's Rift as one aspect on an attack. They all require super specialization to make them even perform half decently.
4. Lastly, with the high Aux Power nature of SCI Vessels, your weapons are mostly irrelevant. Well built, well played Science Vessels are guaranteed to draw all the aggro no matter what's going on with the group. Due to this, I usually go Max Aux and Shields as #2 priority. Energy Weapons are a mere formality. Due to this, Projectiles are a popular weapon with Science Vessels. Projectiles only need the most minimal Weapons Power to function. Performance is not based on higher Weapons Power.
In front just dyson, countercommand and delta torps.
So what am i slotting in my tac consoles? Or would it be better just slam quantums in front and smack proper booting consoles for them? Or do it with plasma only.
Or is the damage from gravity well seriously so good that it with proc chances of these set torpedoes exceeds the damage from dedicated dps torps?
I do have adapted set, so yeah i can use it to boost my usual torp damage without a hassle.
Of course then the doff situation raises its head, is it better to have three doffs boosting my deflection ability cooldown or would the actual torpedo doffs be better?
For tactical abilities its not a bad idea to switch the ensign into tactical team and use the intelligence/tactical to load out letsay torpedo spread one and attack pattern beta for added debuff for resists. Just with many frontweapons being torps, attack pattern wont be debuffing that much?
Or would it be better to just grab torpedo spread one and two?
If you look around into the damage oriented builds, you see guys cram in every possible console they possibly can to gain Crit hit, Crit Severity, Damage Boosts / Bonus, etc. They'll fill in TAC Console Slots with things like Spire TAC Consoles and other Console Slots with things like Bioneural Infusion Circuits, Assimilated Console, Zero Point Console, Tachyokinetic Converter, etc.
Science is the same way. For example, if you want a good Drain Build, you need to throw in as much Flow Capacitors as you possibly can find. For a truly strong CC build, you need high Graviton Generators. Same deal, and run that sucker with high Aux Power, high Graviton Gen Skill, and the right DOFFs, you literally will cause a Gravity Well of Doom that pulls everything. If you want to do Particle Generator build (the damage aspect of SCI), you need very high values of that skill.
With Science builds, TAC Consoles are IMHO, mostly irrelevant. Sacrifice those TAC Consoles to throw in a Universal that has more of the SCI skillbox that you are trying to boost.
If you want to get into Particle Generator Builds, take a look into this thread or around on the boards. That thread I linked has some basics about it. Realize that Science builds, just like Tactical builds, need specialization and investment in time and good gear to truly make powerful.
Additionally, there's not much point to slotting Tac consoles (maybe excluding the CC Tactical due to it's useful Radiation boost that does affect Neutronic and Biomolecular torps and the basic Degrading Secondary Deflector bonus) since the focus should be on maximizing your Sci damage based on your build. As you'll be focusing on Aux power anyway, you can use the two Tactical slots for any Univerals you might be interested in using.
Doff-wise, I wouldn't be concerned with spitting out torpedoes as much as I'd be concerned about improving Sci ability damage or CD (I forget the sheer variety of appropriate Doffs), since that's the majority of your damage. The torpedoes just add icing on top.
APB is optional since you won't likely be FaW'ing much, instead focusing on using Subsystem Targeting to cripple single targets, though even then it still works nicely to weaken that one stubborn target (combined with IT).
KCB is only worthwhile if you equip it with the Assimilated console for the 2-set weapon bonus. If you don't plan to use both, drop 'em (though I haven't yet seen any useful builds say to specifically drop them).
The following bits are entirely optional:
If you also have the Eclipse MasteryTrait, slot it to work alongside your Intel abilities to temporarily boost your defense and damage resistance.
If you have the Phantom and it's trait, slot it as well, which works well with the Eclipse Trait to help bring down your Intel and Tac ability cooldowns faster.
The last Mastery is purely personal preference. The Guardian trait is nice simply because it's a decent desperation save. Dauntless' Mastery is also nice, as it helps boost your own healing and has a small radius to heal other allies, if you're accompanying them.
The damage and effect from fire and forget science abilities like Gravity Well and Tyken's Rift only require high Aux when cast, and not to sustain, right? What about Sensor Scan? Is the debuff based off the Aux when 'cast', or does it fluctuate based on Aux afterwards?
I have a Scryer myself and basically have been front ending my science attacks by using OSS2+GW3 to start, plus whatever else I feel appropriate, and then hitting A2B2 and broadsiding for a bit while I wait for my science abilities to get off cooldown.
One word of advice I can give is this: Don't assume purple is the only color you can use in your equipment slots. For example, rare (blue) consoles are MUCH less expensive than purples while still offering respectable boosts. It'll allow you to play around with different builds without needing to sell your virtual organs on the Ferengi black market.
I'm no pro at this by any stretch as I'm still researching end game dos and don'ts ... but one thing I can recommend is this: If you don't feel you yourself can dps that much, focus on debuffing, specifically debuffing damage resistance. Your whole team will get a dps boost as their target suddenly takes more damage. In this regard, a drain build could very well be the solution, although it's my understanding that for drain builds to work in high end content (Advanced and Elites), you need a lot of drain oriented consoles and doffs. But even if you don't succeed in completely dropping down your target's shields, his shield power will be so low that he won't be regenerating any back. Which also helps.
Remember ... it's not about how much DPS you yourself do, but how much DPS your *team* does. If you can click a button and that tactical cube dies 20% faster, your contribution is very much felt.
Aside from that, I'm keen to see what's suggested here as I too don't have much in the way of end game gear. The only thing I currently have that's decent is the full Romulan Singularity Harness set as it's 3 set ability is REALLY good for debuffing.
Go park in orbit somewhere. Doesn't matter where, just someplace you'll be away from Cruiser Auras that can muck up the testing you're about to do.
Equip a Torpedo.
Equip a Mine if you feel like it.
Now ... hover your mouse cursor over the icon for the weapon(s) so you can see the Tooltip in real time and ... dial your Aux Power up and down however you like.
Do you see what I've seen?
Torpedoes and Mines have their damage increased/regulated by Auxiliary Power ... not by Weapon Power. Weapon Power is for Energy Weapons. Auxiliary Power is for Kinetic Weapons (including Nukara Web Mines) and SCIENCE! Skills.
What does Auxiliary to Battery do? Something not all that helpful to Kinetic Weapons and Science Skills.
There's a reason why Enhanced Battle Cloaks "encourage" torpedo boat builds ... :rolleyes:
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Indeed, that is what I wrote in a couple of other threads. Get free/cheap gear and make experiments with different builds and figure out which play style suits you best. Unfortunately, most people just want to have a ready to use build, so they can buy the "best" gear and go for their borg stfs.
Regarding aux and torpedo damage: Aux increases torpedo damage only, if you slot the offensive aux trait (T4 Nukara rep). Of course as Sci this is one of the most obvious traits to take.
As a consequence of this ... discovery ... I took what used to be dual A2B Cruiser builds (Ambassador Support Cruiser, specifically) and reconfigured them a Drain builds, complete with Plasmonic Leech, dual Energy Siphon I, and ... of all things ... Tetryon Glider, the 2 piece set bonus from the Omega Force (Space) set using Deflector and Shield. That then let me use a MACO Impulse Engine and a Solanae Warp Core.
Using EPtA I and EPtW II, my Engineering Captains can crank their power levels up to a combined 500+, with Weapons, Shields, Engines AND Auxiliary all over 100 each. It takes a little bit to ramp up and get the power flowing, so it isn't something you can use on an alpha strike, but it IS something that makes for a really impressive Pressure Damage build that can have all kinds of capabilities!
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
I tested in one of Tau Dewa's combat encounters. Just warped in, cloaked, and then fiddled with the Aux levels and checked the tooltips on several torps I had equipped. None of them seemed to rise or drop.
You have to have the space trait for Aux power offensive buff.