Well you are right that PvP now is really intense and very, very fast aggressive combat in every way.
Also I agree on everything else, except for healers.
They can still survive some time. I have recorded an arena match 2 days ago with me, Mini, Neepa and Bauklotz, Wadwor in team vs 4 crosshealing ubertanks sci and eng + cruiser
Granted my GI in that match was bugged so i couldn't remove some buffs on attacks, but it's enough to say they were extremely hard to kill.
Also i had few games to last long with custom balanced team , for example with a healer on one side and Scryer on each side. It lasted 45 minutes, ended 15:14
3 minute version of that match https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPXLM91X33U
Healers can survive if they are not left alone in middle with teammates fkin-off 20km away.
But yeah, generally it's so fast that i need to switch targets many times in some occasions on attack, completely lose targets and refocus or just f**k of because everyone starts chasing me if I am more then 3 seconds in the central SCI pack.
I have heard of your stated pvp-match against this full-healer team according to the report of bauklotz himself. It must have been dealt with a more exceptional match if there were 4 full healers on the opposing team, however it is very doubtful that such a team could dish out enough damage to pressurize or even bring down anyone. Moreover a team composed of full healers is by far more immobile than a damage-heavy team with zippy vapers/escorts and versatile partgen-heavy intel ships I guess.
Trying to counterheal 150k overloads, SS spike damage or neutronic TS 3 requires perfect timing and a well-rounded team synergy, one misclick and you wont be able to save an attacked team mate (intel disables which may disrupt cross-healing significantly are not included). Nobody can maintain such a timing and coordination on a long-term^^. It is a matter of time when they perish one by one. Playing in a defensive manner straight away will only achieve a stalemate in the best case and might end as a one-sided shooting match in worst case if faced by the above mentioned offensively-minded team config.
Out of curiousity, what was the outcome of this particular match?
more like 125k-130k DPS for hardcore DPSers vs NPCs.
But even before DR 15k was low. I had 30k with DHC scimi, while scimiFAWers did 80k max before DR.
Nah 15k back at season 8 was high end, only the few guys from disorderly were rolling 30k boats
Then the builds spread and everyone became a scimitard. Even I, not a DPS/PvE chaser by any means, had a 29k scim, can still look it up on the old ISE tab on DPS league.
Im referring to the days before DPS league was a thing (last time i played regularly DPS channels were still relatively exclusive, an admin had to actually invite you with proof of parse, now you get autoinvited if anyone has uploaded your parse)
After Season 8 came out, DPS channel chasing became the new norm, I think youre referencing that timeframe, i meant before even then, right after LOR came out, when the scim was still very new, before Disorderly came to PvP with their super fawball that shocked the queues for a while before people adapted to it.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
super high DPS is mostly about your team mates stacking a ton of APB on targets for you, the whole DPS **** measuring thing is a farce.
Ill tell you one thing though DDIS, a sub-2minute old school ISE run was absolutely hilarious to be a part of. it was over before you even realized it was really under way.
I remember some of the Vice guys waiting on me to do my run cause they needed me for a five man pvp team, they asked in TS if I was still in, and I was like "uh dude i was done five minutes ago" "WAT?" That was actually the response XD
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Cryptic has made there punching bags thicker giving things 100s of thousands of hit points. No one is doing 2 min ISE runs.
One of the bigger issues for PvE is the people that enjoyed doing ISE runs fast as they could aren't doing ISE there doing ISN not even bothering with Advance or Elite cause the rewards are so bad its not even worth bothering.
For PvPers... it is true they did buff ship HP... lets be honest though they didn't do it very well. this change simply means the fat boats are slightly less unkillable with out a ton of annoyance skills. Really thought the best way to deal witih people in ships with 100k hit points is to use chains of annoying stuns. That of course is the height of great PvP game design and attracts all sorts of new players to a game. lmao
On the other hand people in things like Science and Escort ships that tend to have not got the super hit point buffs... there will be perhaps just a few more (there where already way to many) WTH just killed me moments. Being one shot in a game where even vets have to scroll through a log to see exactly what it was that did them in instantly... is also super fun and will attract a ton of new players.
Cryptic seriously needs to examine what it is they want to do with there pvp system.
At this point the ONLY fix ... and the ONLY thing that would entice me to consider bothering with STO anymore would be for them to do a proper PvP mode. A mode where the PvE rules would not apply... they need a system something like GW2 setup where gear is normalized somehow in a PvP map... as well as HP/DPS... I am not holding my breath, I am also not sure why I bothered taking the time to type about it. Have a good one friends.
they have broken things so badly that there needs to be an entirely separate set of rules and ballance for pvp and pve. this did not used to be the case, and it didn't need to be like this, this is the result of unprecedented failure on the part of the systems team, and insane mandates from higher ups.
it would also require a huge amount of work, so it will never happen. no actual time what so ever would ever be spent on pvp benefiting only development.
Is STO still actually a PvP title? Are my eyes malfunctioning or did people (sans Hanni/Drunk) just spend the last page talking about STFs and PvE ships? Jeez.
Is STO still actually a PvP title? Are my eyes malfunctioning or did people (sans Hanni/Drunk) just spend the last page talking about STFs and PvE ships? Jeez.
It hasn't been a pvp title for a long time now. You must be playing something else.
Seriously if you enjoy quality PvP STO hasn't been the place to do it for a long time now. Its a good place to do some RP.
Problem is Devs release content for PvP... without knowing that. Thus they don't care about balancing it.
Is subnucleonic beam useful in PvE? Do you really need to strip a NPC of its buff? Most of the times there are no buffs active on one.
Is Gather Intel a must in PvE? Hell no, who do you need to strip of the buffs, if the NPC are not buffing themselves for the same reason as above?
What do you need Intelligence Team for? Are NPCs analyzing you? Or is a player doing that?
Is the 5/2 weapon layout + crazy speed + crazy firepower of a Contortrix making the difference in PvE, or it's a killer ship in PvP?
Do you need Go Down Fighting to kill NPCs? Or it is supposed to be an ability useful for turning the tides against your opponent when almost beaten down?
What do you need the Nadion Saturation Bomb for? Stacking damage on NPCs or deliver a pontential series of one shot blasts on your opponent?
What's a Faeht for? Is it supposed to be blowing up NPCs, or the whole tac/sci focus + Enhanced Battle Cloak +Heavy Lance is supposedly a perfect mix for a vaper or kinetic bomber?
What do you need Reciprocity for? Reducing cooldowns by once every a while, while fighting NPCs armed with a couple of beam arrays, or slam tactical abilities down to global to be able to attack more frequently?
What do you need Ablative Field Projector for? Is it a case that it can provide 9k bonus hull hit points to an ally in PvP when using extend shields,because the trait stacks every second you get shield healed?
What do you need Biotech Patch for? Need to repair the hull because "OmG CrazY NPcS are crIPPLinG mE" or to provide the maximum amount of hull heals to cast to your allies in case of a healer?
What do you need the Multidimensional Graviton Shield (see: Rademaker's special console) for? to reflect the crappy damage of single torps fired by NPCs, or to give a hard time to torpedo bombers, oneshotting the guy who launched a buffed spread of Neutronic to you?
List can go on endlessly, if they only cared about balancing all the stuff, PvP would be the apex moment of gameplay in STO.
After Season 8 came out, DPS channel chasing became the new norm, I think youre referencing that timeframe, i meant before even then, right after LOR came out, when the scim was still very new, before Disorderly came to PvP with their super fawball that shocked the queues for a while before people adapted to it.
I am talking about time where there where only 5k 11k and DPS 20k was highest DPS channel. with like 10 guys, mostly admins in it porch, ryan, felisean, john etc.. in it.
Then i did like 28k with DHC scimi and stopped chasing DPS since then.
But I have covered entire period until DR in my post. DPS jump was 5 fold since. That was the point.
And yeah, agree with drunk on APB3 dual recluse pet spam for highest DPS. I was more interested in time records on CSE. Was able to thalaron vape a shipyard then, still missed few secs of the record in few runs.
Anyway.
@ hannibal
match ended 15:5 or something for us. They were a fleet team, we were random arena Qd.
I died twice from Multidimensional shield for 72k(146k) lol.
We had nice spike potential but it wasn't easy to kill any of them and I started doing false solo attacks to bring them to buff my target while others were focusing on someone else.
Yeah they couldn't hope to kill any without FBP but they were strong on surviving, so it's possible to team tank now. We haven't had intel disables though, it would be easier with them of course.
Is STO still actually a PvP title? Are my eyes malfunctioning or did people (sans Hanni/Drunk) just spend the last page talking about STFs and PvE ships? Jeez.
lol yea it must be shocking for someone who took a break from the game from season 6 onwards, returned right before delta rising was released and has been realizing what happened to the once glorious and probably the best pvp community ever seen combined with the outstanding, skillful and well-rounded pvp-gameplay. The past and almost forgotten era of pvp where scoring kills against opponents required teamwork, took plenty of efforts and "coordination" than nowadays. Additionally, pug and premade teams these days were outperforming today's teams by the factor 100 or so lol. Cryptic has turned pvp into a more single-player-based and grind-fest game with RPers abounding in the foreground by their undoing. Even old school players are turning into pve-grinders and ERPers because they have not many options left here.
inflame in my memories a wonderful and lively period of time in pvp containing great people. I would kill and stop at nothing in order to get back that passionate pvp and competition with less qq. I'm happy and grateful that I was one of those guys who was given the opportunity to play pvp with outstanding folks of whose I could learn many things and gave me a great pew pewing time.
@ hannibal
match ended 15:5 or something for us. They were a fleet team, we were random arena Qd.
I died twice from Multidimensional shield for 72k(146k) lol.
We had nice spike potential but it wasn't easy to kill any of them and I started doing false solo attacks to bring them to buff my target while others were focusing on someone else.
Yeah they couldn't hope to kill any without FBP but they were strong on surviving, so it's possible to team tank now. We haven't had intel disables though, it would be easier with them of course.
roger that, congratz to the victory against that premade, it seemed to be a well-working strategy
if some IC dude come by and say this **** is ****ed up, it's ****ed up.
you on the other hand still are non-premade n00b.
Reading helps. It really does before making stupid posts like that.
Hannibal also plays same OPvP games I do every night and we were talking about those in those posts.
You have anything more to share on the subject?
Reading helps. It really does before making stupid posts like that.
Hannibal also plays same OPvP games I do every night and we were talking about those in those posts.
You have anything more to share on the subject?
Absolutely. In addition to that, there are still some encouraged guys out there seeking to keep pvp activities alive by setting up opvp- fun matches, thanks to jedis for organizing them
Comments
I have heard of your stated pvp-match against this full-healer team according to the report of bauklotz himself. It must have been dealt with a more exceptional match if there were 4 full healers on the opposing team, however it is very doubtful that such a team could dish out enough damage to pressurize or even bring down anyone. Moreover a team composed of full healers is by far more immobile than a damage-heavy team with zippy vapers/escorts and versatile partgen-heavy intel ships I guess.
Trying to counterheal 150k overloads, SS spike damage or neutronic TS 3 requires perfect timing and a well-rounded team synergy, one misclick and you wont be able to save an attacked team mate (intel disables which may disrupt cross-healing significantly are not included). Nobody can maintain such a timing and coordination on a long-term^^. It is a matter of time when they perish one by one. Playing in a defensive manner straight away will only achieve a stalemate in the best case and might end as a one-sided shooting match in worst case if faced by the above mentioned offensively-minded team config.
Out of curiousity, what was the outcome of this particular match?
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Nah 15k back at season 8 was high end, only the few guys from disorderly were rolling 30k boats
Then the builds spread and everyone became a scimitard. Even I, not a DPS/PvE chaser by any means, had a 29k scim, can still look it up on the old ISE tab on DPS league.
Im referring to the days before DPS league was a thing (last time i played regularly DPS channels were still relatively exclusive, an admin had to actually invite you with proof of parse, now you get autoinvited if anyone has uploaded your parse)
After Season 8 came out, DPS channel chasing became the new norm, I think youre referencing that timeframe, i meant before even then, right after LOR came out, when the scim was still very new, before Disorderly came to PvP with their super fawball that shocked the queues for a while before people adapted to it.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Ill tell you one thing though DDIS, a sub-2minute old school ISE run was absolutely hilarious to be a part of. it was over before you even realized it was really under way.
I remember some of the Vice guys waiting on me to do my run cause they needed me for a five man pvp team, they asked in TS if I was still in, and I was like "uh dude i was done five minutes ago" "WAT?" That was actually the response XD
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Cryptic has made there punching bags thicker giving things 100s of thousands of hit points. No one is doing 2 min ISE runs.
One of the bigger issues for PvE is the people that enjoyed doing ISE runs fast as they could aren't doing ISE there doing ISN not even bothering with Advance or Elite cause the rewards are so bad its not even worth bothering.
For PvPers... it is true they did buff ship HP... lets be honest though they didn't do it very well. this change simply means the fat boats are slightly less unkillable with out a ton of annoyance skills. Really thought the best way to deal witih people in ships with 100k hit points is to use chains of annoying stuns. That of course is the height of great PvP game design and attracts all sorts of new players to a game. lmao
On the other hand people in things like Science and Escort ships that tend to have not got the super hit point buffs... there will be perhaps just a few more (there where already way to many) WTH just killed me moments. Being one shot in a game where even vets have to scroll through a log to see exactly what it was that did them in instantly... is also super fun and will attract a ton of new players.
Cryptic seriously needs to examine what it is they want to do with there pvp system.
At this point the ONLY fix ... and the ONLY thing that would entice me to consider bothering with STO anymore would be for them to do a proper PvP mode. A mode where the PvE rules would not apply... they need a system something like GW2 setup where gear is normalized somehow in a PvP map... as well as HP/DPS... I am not holding my breath, I am also not sure why I bothered taking the time to type about it.
Top 20 DPS Snapshot: http://i.imgur.com/LztvKkz.png
it would also require a huge amount of work, so it will never happen. no actual time what so ever would ever be spent on pvp benefiting only development.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
It hasn't been a pvp title for a long time now. You must be playing something else.
Seriously if you enjoy quality PvP STO hasn't been the place to do it for a long time now. Its a good place to do some RP.
Is subnucleonic beam useful in PvE? Do you really need to strip a NPC of its buff? Most of the times there are no buffs active on one.
Is Gather Intel a must in PvE? Hell no, who do you need to strip of the buffs, if the NPC are not buffing themselves for the same reason as above?
What do you need Intelligence Team for? Are NPCs analyzing you? Or is a player doing that?
Is the 5/2 weapon layout + crazy speed + crazy firepower of a Contortrix making the difference in PvE, or it's a killer ship in PvP?
Do you need Go Down Fighting to kill NPCs? Or it is supposed to be an ability useful for turning the tides against your opponent when almost beaten down?
What do you need the Nadion Saturation Bomb for? Stacking damage on NPCs or deliver a pontential series of one shot blasts on your opponent?
What's a Faeht for? Is it supposed to be blowing up NPCs, or the whole tac/sci focus + Enhanced Battle Cloak +Heavy Lance is supposedly a perfect mix for a vaper or kinetic bomber?
What do you need Reciprocity for? Reducing cooldowns by once every a while, while fighting NPCs armed with a couple of beam arrays, or slam tactical abilities down to global to be able to attack more frequently?
What do you need Ablative Field Projector for? Is it a case that it can provide 9k bonus hull hit points to an ally in PvP when using extend shields,because the trait stacks every second you get shield healed?
What do you need Biotech Patch for? Need to repair the hull because "OmG CrazY NPcS are crIPPLinG mE" or to provide the maximum amount of hull heals to cast to your allies in case of a healer?
What do you need the Multidimensional Graviton Shield (see: Rademaker's special console) for? to reflect the crappy damage of single torps fired by NPCs, or to give a hard time to torpedo bombers, oneshotting the guy who launched a buffed spread of Neutronic to you?
List can go on endlessly, if they only cared about balancing all the stuff, PvP would be the apex moment of gameplay in STO.
I am talking about time where there where only 5k 11k and DPS 20k was highest DPS channel. with like 10 guys, mostly admins in it porch, ryan, felisean, john etc.. in it.
Then i did like 28k with DHC scimi and stopped chasing DPS since then.
But I have covered entire period until DR in my post. DPS jump was 5 fold since. That was the point.
And yeah, agree with drunk on APB3 dual recluse pet spam for highest DPS. I was more interested in time records on CSE. Was able to thalaron vape a shipyard then, still missed few secs of the record in few runs.
Anyway.
@ hannibal
match ended 15:5 or something for us. They were a fleet team, we were random arena Qd.
I died twice from Multidimensional shield for 72k(146k) lol.
We had nice spike potential but it wasn't easy to kill any of them and I started doing false solo attacks to bring them to buff my target while others were focusing on someone else.
Yeah they couldn't hope to kill any without FBP but they were strong on surviving, so it's possible to team tank now. We haven't had intel disables though, it would be easier with them of course.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
lol yea it must be shocking for someone who took a break from the game from season 6 onwards, returned right before delta rising was released and has been realizing what happened to the once glorious and probably the best pvp community ever seen combined with the outstanding, skillful and well-rounded pvp-gameplay. The past and almost forgotten era of pvp where scoring kills against opponents required teamwork, took plenty of efforts and "coordination" than nowadays. Additionally, pug and premade teams these days were outperforming today's teams by the factor 100 or so lol. Cryptic has turned pvp into a more single-player-based and grind-fest game with RPers abounding in the foreground by their undoing. Even old school players are turning into pve-grinders and ERPers because they have not many options left here.
Whether I watch videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go2a-GtiZjM (shimmerless at its best (Y))
or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwr78zJ0qgg
(No BS 2 Final match: IC vs Sad Pandas in April 2013)
inflame in my memories a wonderful and lively period of time in pvp containing great people. I would kill and stop at nothing in order to get back that passionate pvp and competition with less qq. I'm happy and grateful that I was one of those guys who was given the opportunity to play pvp with outstanding folks of whose I could learn many things and gave me a great pew pewing time.
in a nutshell: THAT WAS AWESOME **** lol:D
roger that, congratz to the victory against that premade, it seemed to be a well-working strategy
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
wow... *sighs*, the worst concerns have obviously come true.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Reading helps. It really does before making stupid posts like that.
Hannibal also plays same OPvP games I do every night and we were talking about those in those posts.
You have anything more to share on the subject?
is this confirmed? are we talkin about MKXII VR to MK XIV Gold in comparison or pure base or what?
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Absolutely. In addition to that, there are still some encouraged guys out there seeking to keep pvp activities alive by setting up opvp- fun matches, thanks to jedis for organizing them
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Oh and that's a bad miss