I'm still trying to process the thought process behind making a request like this. It assumes a style of play where that style is superior. There is no basis for that premise - there are no metrics/statistics or the like offered to support the underlying assumption for the conclusion drawn.
Different people play alts differently, and I've played them differently myself over the years in different games. At times, it's been the simple case of moving from one main to the next - so as one toon is completed the next is played...with or without a return to previous toons. At times, it's just been a case of playing various toons as the mood hit. Each of the toons would be at different levels - with the main having the most progress and the alts not having that amount of progress...hence the concept behind them being alts. Never once was there any expectation that what was done with one would affect the other outside of possibly farming them gear or resources to help them on their travels.
So it's difficult to process the thought process behind that particular expectation.
As mentioned though, the idea of sponsorship - is an old one, it's not much different than the one toon providing gear or resources to help another...sponsoring. So the ability for the main toon to sponsor alts has a foundation in the genre.
That one could play one toon and have that affect 20-30 toons or more, would not one start with the potential question of why somebody rolled 20-30 or more toons in the first place as being symptomatic of other issues?
There's no doubt that the alt-friendly nature of the game took a dramatic shift with S9.5; given the work that had been done throughout the year to make the game more alt-friendly - it hit like a truck of bricks, right?
And while some will scream hyperbole, how is the suggestion much different than suggesting Dil one and Dil all? EC one and EC all? Rep one and Rep all? R&D one and R&D all? Commendation one and Commendation all? Some will say that it all should be like that...and well, yeah - Walmart had a Black Friday sale on /facepalms in bulk for that thought process.
One might say that it is the time involved that separates them. Even before the sponsorship changes, even before the daily boxes, even before the oodles upon oodles of ways that Cryptic went overboard turning the game into something where you had no reason to play beyond a month unless you were a homebound invalid...there really wasn't much effort/time involved in doing anything.
R&D introduced the first actual, imho, major timesink. Even Fleets weren't on this level, unless you were trying to do the solo Fleet thing - cause folks working together, getting it done - just wasn't on the level of R&D.
Unfortunately for Cryptic, they operated under the reasonable expectation that only the most OCD folks would need to get to 20 in each school...and they would never have guessed that folks would think it normal that dozens upon dozens of toons should all have that.
Which gets us to the Specialization Points, and that it's not really a case of less alts equaling less money...cause there's nothing about it that would prevent anybody from running alts.
It's only the folks that have the expectation of having multiple toons all at the same level and ready to go in the wink of an eye that are running into those issues, no?
Cause, having the one toon with 20 spec points doesn't prevent having one with 15, one with 8, and basically a bunch that aren't even that far - that are still in the low 50s. Cause that's something to keep in mind, spec points start at 50 - not at 60.
So one could say it's not really an argument about less alts, but about less alternate mains - because there's nothing stopping folks from having alts - and - spending all they would on those alts.
It would only be the expectation of having dozens of toons that are all maxed...no?
Or maybe I'm completely off there, eh? Like I said, I'm still trying to process the thought process behind the thread. Oh well...
Which gets us to the Specialization Points, and that it's not really a case of less alts equaling less money...cause there's nothing about it that would prevent anybody from running alts.
It's only the folks that have the expectation of having multiple toons all at the same level and ready to go in the wink of an eye that are running into those issues, no?
Cause, having the one toon with 20 spec points doesn't prevent having one with 15, one with 8, and basically a bunch that aren't even that far - that are still in the low 50s. Cause that's something to keep in mind, spec points start at 50 - not at 60.
So one could say it's not really an argument about less alts, but about less alternate mains - because there's nothing stopping folks from having alts - and - spending all they would on those alts.
It would only be the expectation of having dozens of toons that are all maxed...no?
Or maybe I'm completely off there, eh? Like I said, I'm still trying to process the thought process behind the thread. Oh well...
I think its the definition of ALT that makes all the difference there. If i'd count any of my toons there regardless of progression or gear i'd have more then 50 alts, dead evolutionary ends back then from the time traits weren't changeable and toons for low level pvp (when that was still alive).. since i don't care about those dead alts but only those for high level pvp, i only consider 15 to be real alts.. or some sort of "alt" mains.. however you call it.
15 would seem excessively many to you but not to me really.. started off with an alien of each class for pvp on each side, made a cat later (jump and dodge are to important to miss in pvp) made an alien of each class for space pvp, later a romulan of each etc.. all of those pvp toons are maxed in rep and almost all my spacers are flying in lockbox ships.
Anyway to make it short i agree with the OP, specialization points should be account-bound and each point should be spendable on *every* lvl 50+ toon. Means once one accumulates 60 account-bound specialization points, specialization should be done on all toons on that account.. 60 levels to grind for specialization is enough for one account, theres still those 10 levels (50->60) to grind on each toon separately anyway and reputation too.
Theres less motivation to buy a lockbox ship for a toon that you know will always be subpar cause it will never have the necessary specialization points then opening some boxes to get a ship for a otherwise maxed toon. The real problem really remains with the fact that at least when it comes to pvp the specialization is way to much of a must-have then it should have been for something thats supposed to be such a long grind.
The beauty of account wide spec points is that it actually encourages playing alts, leveling them to 60, and grabbing that shiny T6 ship.
PS: Not to jump on the DOOOOOOOOM! bandwagon, but my two alts are effectively dead since DR. They were also kitted out with fleet gear and lobi stuff. Now they farm dilithium.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Cryptic if you want people to play their alts then you must make specialization points account bound as well as vastly increase XP in previous story missions and patrols, in fact everywhere. If you do this it unlocks the game for all our alts, and I CAN SPEND MONEY AGAIN!
As one of those people who treats all of his alts (basically*) the same: same gear, same reps, often same ships, I'd fall into what you'd call having many 'mains'.
And as I'd want to keep using them all, I also want them all to have the same specs unlocked.
From what I gathered in the OP, he's in the same boat, so there you got the reason for this thread, Virus.
Personally, I see making spec points count across chars on a given account too extreme, but I agree some way of lessening the load for alts (or other 'mains') is needed, along with un-nerfing xp gains. Contemplating the long grind ahead of me, I've barely played in the last few weeks. And the nerfs that have still been hitting definitely don't inspire confidence of willingness to actually spend time playing, either.
* that 'basically' means that chronologically my oldest FED, KDF and ROM chars do get small benefits. Typically one of them is the first char to run a new rep, dispense two rep sponsorship tokens to the other two and all of them together help the other alts.
Also, this 'equality' of alts doesn't necessarily apply to 'service alt accounts'.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Spec points account bound sounds great. I would also like to see the Rep Systems moved to account bound as well. Instead of tokens costing 100 to reduce the leveling, they could be 1,000 of those rep marks and 10k DL each and basically unlock a T5 Rep on another character.
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Levelling this game for many has been seen as so much of a chore that they have actually stopped playing and left STO. Many more are slowly trudging their way through the mindless patrols knowing that their goal is still many hundreds of hours away.
For these players the idea of doing this all again on numerous alts is quite literally sickening.
So most people I have discussed this with have decided to take only one or two alts, perhaps three, one from each faction to level 60.
For me that means at least 7 of my alts that were all fully kitted out top level and pvp capable, for whom I spent money on lobi items, Z store items, zen for keys to buy the latest gear on the exchange, all those alts are now docked at ESD permanently. It is a shame, some of them have rare ships like the Galor and the JHAS, but I simply cannot stomach the monotonous slog to get them to either level 60 or worse to fill up their spec points.
This means Cryptic that I am NOT SPENDING MONEY on them, and you are losing big time if this is being repeated as I suspect across the board.
So, rather than just QQ about the game I thought I would throw in what to me seemed an obvious solution. Cryptic if you want people to play their alts then you must make specialization points account bound as well as vastly increase XP in previous story missions and patrols, in fact everywhere. If you do this it unlocks the game for all our alts, and I CAN SPEND MONEY AGAIN!
Discuss.
I would support this but I'll tell you one big reason why they won't do it:
The spec points from 50 to 60 are easier to get. Heck, the spec point from 50-51 is easier to get.
At most, I could see them offering a trait for the completion of secondary specializations which enhances spec point gains. Why would they do this? Because otherwise, completing secondary specializations will quickly become undesirable as people dump all of their points into primary specializations for the kits and bridge officer training.
If they launch a new specialization every 6 months and the average player takes years to complete even one, they're going to dump everything into primary specializations.
Basically spec points are paragon points copied to sto. Sad part is thwy copied them badly. Instead of lots of lvls giving very small bonuses they introduced a very small number of lvls giving large bonuses. So instead of just accepting that this will take a good while and having contunious progression we have little to no progression and everyone wants so points as fast as possible.
While I most definitely agree they need boost spec point gains, however I don't think account wide is a good idea.
I do agree that playing alts under these circumstances does suck, however I think I see their logic to a small degree but, this is by no means certainty.
If, I am correctly understanding their reasons for making alt progression miserable, would be to not to so much discourage playing them but, instead thin the mass amount of people using vast amount of alts, from benefiting off of Cryptic's F2P system by easy farming.
Also, it does cause for more people to make purchases of zen to a good degree, so long as there are people actually playing like you mentioned.
The days of easy farming and, progression are a thing of the past but, probably only for so long!
So, hang in there for, some possibility of a brighter future.
Actually, although I have NO idea what cryptic's motivation for doing what they have been recently, especially considering the only tangible effect I can discern is making the players they haven't driven off yet angrier by the day; I can say with certainty it has had NO effect on multiple characters farming dil. In my own case it has INCREASED my alt dil farming. How? Well pre DR i was trying to get alts geared up and spent most of my time on them farming rep. Post DR i only worry about gear/rep on a few chars. The other alts ONLY farm dil. So, at least in my own case, cryptics efforts have increased my dil farming activity while simultaneously decreasing my need for dil by making leveling multiple alts an exercise in frustration.
Just make the XP the way it was before the nerfs, problem solved.
You mean running japori a hundred time for a single spec point ? Woohoo, sounds fun !
I get the idea behind spec point. You play endgame content and you earn spec point. Sound fun, honestly. I had that in age of conan, and it worked well. Unfortunately, in STO, the XP reward for doing endgame content is abysmal, when you have xp reward at all (dyson BG doesn't award any xp from quests, for example). Leading to a need to grind for spec point if you want to unlock them during your lifetime.
Absolutely! I would love this and if they do implement this I would suggest that they make leveling on any character contribute to the points on the account that way it doesn't have to be done from a single level 60. This would lighten the load because there are alot of alts out there with subpar gear that have reached level 60 just barely but haven't the means to do the new STFs because of how they are built.
Levelling this game for many has been seen as so much of a chore that they have actually stopped playing and left STO. Many more are slowly trudging their way through the mindless patrols knowing that their goal is still many hundreds of hours away.
For these players the idea of doing this all again on numerous alts is quite literally sickening.
So most people I have discussed this with have decided to take only one or two alts, perhaps three, one from each faction to level 60.
For me that means at least 7 of my alts that were all fully kitted out top level and pvp capable, for whom I spent money on lobi items, Z store items, zen for keys to buy the latest gear on the exchange, all those alts are now docked at ESD permanently. It is a shame, some of them have rare ships like the Galor and the JHAS, but I simply cannot stomach the monotonous slog to get them to either level 60 or worse to fill up their spec points.
This means Cryptic that I am NOT SPENDING MONEY on them, and you are losing big time if this is being repeated as I suspect across the board.
So, rather than just QQ about the game I thought I would throw in what to me seemed an obvious solution. Cryptic if you want people to play their alts then you must make specialization points account bound as well as vastly increase XP in previous story missions and patrols, in fact everywhere. If you do this it unlocks the game for all our alts, and I CAN SPEND MONEY AGAIN!
No idea their logic behind the exp nerf, but we are losing people faster than they can unnerf something.
I almost choked on my coffee when someone on zone chat said the other day
"Whoo, xp boost zone. 3 POINTS ONLY"
that statement alone makes me question the sanity of this company. Really do the devs not question their orders?
As for account wide unlock . I m all for this , but mods have no power over this.
We need more feedback or more flaming like the originila spec debacle. Then they will listen.
I blame Geko.
Honestly, they should give up on this obsessive nerfing of XP. It's really indicative of a mentally unhealthy state. It all started with the 'ZOMG! They're going 17x too fast!' debacle. Just let pople have fun, like they used to. And it's equally crazy there's only 1 place in game, Argala, that hasn't had its XP payout nerfed into oblivion. Honestly, sometimes reality is so simple: if you want ppl to play in other areas as well, make those other areas attractive too!
In all the years I've played, XP was never an issue, to anyone (Devs included). What happened?!
Honestly, they should give up on this obsessive nerfing of XP. It's really indicative of a mentally unhealthy state. It all started with the 'ZOMG! They're going 17x too fast!' debacle. Just let pople have fun, like they used to. And it's equally crazy there's only 1 place in game, Argala, that hasn't had its XP payout nerfed into oblivion. Honestly, sometimes reality is so simple: if you want ppl to play in other areas as well, make those other areas attractive too!
In all the years I've played, XP was never an issue, to anyone (Devs included). What happened?!
There have always been voices that said that leveling in STO was ridiculously fast.
I think specializations were meant as a long-term thing - but not a primary activity. Something nice you get occassionally. As someone else pointed out, it may have been better to have more specialization points but lower bonuses per point, so that people see a more measurable improvement. Even if it still takes "forever" to get to the end, you hear that happy "level-up-ding." (And since there are not 60 but maybe 300 points to get, you may also much more easily accept that you can't do it in a week or a month.)
The levelling speed from 50 to 60 and the level requirements for the missions may actually be an attempt to make the content "virtually" last longer. It's not that the missions will be longer or more numerous, but it takes longer to get to them. Without that "grind", you would go through the missions and have no new mission content to look forward to, with the slow levelling you can play a few days and still know there is a mission out there - you just need to get there. The total content is the same, but the "spread" is different. Even someone that has no goals in regards to his gear or reputations would still have at least have the goal "level to see the next mission."
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There have always been voices that said that leveling in STO was ridiculously fast.
that started with F2P. over night level requirements got slashed to 1/2 or 1/3 what they were before. It used to be that you actually needed to TRY to gain levels. Then it became so ridiculously easy that you'd hit 50 long before you finished the story. And now the devs changed it to require effort again.
Honestly, I've spent around 60 spec points across my 12 characters. If they were an account wide thing... yeah. now I'd be bored and have no reason to work for stuff.
I have a small tribe of alts (18 in total) many of them themed to races with the correct ships load outs etc.
12 were old end game geared the other 6 were all on their way there.
It was a fun part of the game for me building up the tribe and trying out various builds and I have spent a fair bit of cashy money doing it.
But that has pretty much stopped with DR.
I am working on two of them at a slow rate (the mad grind can go and do one as far as I am concerned )
There is little doubt that if it was feasible and reasonable way to level and equip them all without causing my sanity and bank account to drain away then I would do.
I would love an account wide spec system but I have no idea how they would be able to do it.
And while we are at it all gear brought and used /R+D'd or upgraded to be account bound would be nice.
They at least need to bite the bullet and roll back the xp changes they made.
This will mean more of my alts being played and more chance of me playing longer and maybe spending some cash on them.
They way it is now my alts are loitering around esd/ds9/droz kicking their heals and dreaming of the good old days.
Or to put it another way.
The less fun for me the less money cryptic/pwe get from me.
And it's equally crazy there's only 1 place in game, Argala, that hasn't had its XP payout nerfed into oblivion. Honestly, sometimes reality is so simple: if you want ppl to play in other areas as well, make those other areas attractive too!
I thought that's exactly what they were trying to do by nerfing the STF awards and adding the equal awards to all other queue's .
But that's Cryptic for you -- apply one logic in one place in the game and another one in another place .
Just like the Borg can be this strong here and that strong somewhere else .
In all the years I've played, XP was never an issue, to anyone (Devs included). What happened?!
Dan Stahl left and he took the fun with him ?!
(in a bag ? )
I have 2 x JHAS, Wells, fleet Exelsior, Elachi escort and some other ships, all are now docked permanently.
Just playing with my 5 main characters (all tac's).
My JHDC, Cell Ship, Armataige, NX and Connie are all in the same boat. Right now I'm only using my Fleet Akira. My Mirror Ship collection is gathering dust. There was a time when I would have ground out the lobi I need for the Assilimlated Cruiser for my Romulan...but I've given up in it. I have alts to RP (like a mirror Spock named Kcops) and a Ferengi mule for selling stuff and storage. The rest...well, I might delete a few of my alts for inactivity. My main is the only one in a fleet, that's crafting, and that's got all the reps. I haven't done ANY of these things on my alts. So yeah, I feel your pain.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
that started with F2P. over night level requirements got slashed to 1/2 or 1/3 what they were before. It used to be that you actually needed to TRY to gain levels. Then it became so ridiculously easy that you'd hit 50 long before you finished the story. And now the devs changed it to require effort again.
Honestly, I've spent around 60 spec points across my 12 characters. If they were an account wide thing... yeah. now I'd be bored and have no reason to work for stuff.
That's apparently an important difference between players. There was never a moment in STO where I'd have nothing to do. Was I bored? Of course, when I played too much, I could get bored of STFing, or of endless char switching for doffing,... But there was always (and still is) so much I never got the chance to try.
By and large I never got the chance to try and learn how to play ground effectively. Accolades. Other than borg STF queues. The foundry. Heck, so many ships I want to try...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Account wide specialization points would be nice.. I guess.
But I think the real problem is dilithium costs. I have about 15 ships on my main toon but I'm chained to just one, the one I spent hundreds of thousands of dilithium on to get to T5-U with MK XIV gear. I might as well delete all my other ships that I spend tons of zen on because the thought of doing that upgrade process all over again for another ship is sickening.
And it is no wonder fleets are now empty and projects are at a stand still. When a single toon requires hundreds of thousands of dilithium to upgrade a single ship where are we supposed to get the dilithium to contribute to a fleet project?
Agree. Every fleet my alts are in is showing zero progression because no one has any dilithium to spend on something as trivial as fleet projects. I have seven characters I play, not for resource collection but because they were fun. I have several races in the fed, plus rom and Klingon each one has at least eight ships and most have 12. Now I fly one ship on my main character, and one ship on each alt, ocassionally. Not buying anything g any more.
Space the final frontier. These are the voyages of [your name here] on a five year mission to gain one level after the delta rising xp nerf.
That's apparently an important difference between players. There was never a moment in STO where I'd have nothing to do. Was I bored? Of course, when I played too much, I could get bored of STFing, or of endless char switching for doffing,... But there was always (and still is) so much I never got the chance to try.
By and large I never got the chance to try and learn how to play ground effectively. Accolades. Other than borg STF queues. The foundry. Heck, so many ships I want to try...
I could give you a few pointers. I love ground combat, and I both play and write foundry missions. :P
My JHDC, Cell Ship, Armataige, NX and Connie are all in the same boat. Right now I'm only using my Fleet Akira. My Mirror Ship collection is gathering dust. There was a time when I would have ground out the lobi I need for the Assilimlated Cruiser for my Romulan...but I've given up in it. I have alts to RP (like a mirror Spock named Kcops) and a Ferengi mule for selling stuff and storage. The rest...well, I might delete a few of my alts for inactivity. My main is the only one in a fleet, that's crafting, and that's got all the reps. I haven't done ANY of these things on my alts. So yeah, I feel your pain.
You're all making me depressed...
I'm a one character person, but here's the list of ships I have and enjoy(ed) flying in: Atrox, Heavy Escort Carrier, D'Kyr, JHAS, Recluse, Orb Weaver, Galor, Wells, Bastion, Bulwark, D'Kora, Palisade
Now I only really fly the Dauntless. Out of all the other ships, I can switch it out for the Palisade or Wells, but all the gear I upgraded really only works on those 3 ships. The rest, I suppose I could still use them in the various MKXII gear they have, but in comparison, they are now so much more ineffective that it just isn't the same now. So, I fly the Dauntless...
Regarding the OP, again, doesn't really affect me as I really only have 1 character (and a Romulan alt I rarely play I suppose), but I do agree that this game forces players to stick with 1 character and 1 build, which sucks.
I also did not have many alts but I did keep a nice selection of ships which has now been gathering mothballs. I only use 1 now for each my characters. Obviously spec points is not an issue with me as I was never in a rush to max anything. My issue with the cost of upgrading gear and having to do lame or dead stfs to get rare mats. This whole process is not fun and I do not forsee doing this again for my other ships. So much wrong all at the same time, it is overwhelmingly bad.
Agreed. Hell i could even deal with slow 50-60 leveling if they'd make spec points acc-wide.
I have mixed feelings as to whether I agree with this post, but it's certainly better than my feelings about the current system. (Which are exemplified by the fact that I've abandoned any attempts to max out my first FA's specs, let alone level my other 5 characters to 60.)
If not account bound, I suggest a system like the Rep system tokens. Every time you earn a spec point (or 5, or something), you can churn out a token that can be passed to an alt to drastically reduce the amount of XP required to earn the next spec point or so. A sort of balance.
Ah, yes. And this does not at all drastically lose effectiveness as the amount of characters on an account increases... :rolleyes:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Comments
They don't. And they needn't.
Different people play alts differently, and I've played them differently myself over the years in different games. At times, it's been the simple case of moving from one main to the next - so as one toon is completed the next is played...with or without a return to previous toons. At times, it's just been a case of playing various toons as the mood hit. Each of the toons would be at different levels - with the main having the most progress and the alts not having that amount of progress...hence the concept behind them being alts. Never once was there any expectation that what was done with one would affect the other outside of possibly farming them gear or resources to help them on their travels.
So it's difficult to process the thought process behind that particular expectation.
As mentioned though, the idea of sponsorship - is an old one, it's not much different than the one toon providing gear or resources to help another...sponsoring. So the ability for the main toon to sponsor alts has a foundation in the genre.
That one could play one toon and have that affect 20-30 toons or more, would not one start with the potential question of why somebody rolled 20-30 or more toons in the first place as being symptomatic of other issues?
There's no doubt that the alt-friendly nature of the game took a dramatic shift with S9.5; given the work that had been done throughout the year to make the game more alt-friendly - it hit like a truck of bricks, right?
And while some will scream hyperbole, how is the suggestion much different than suggesting Dil one and Dil all? EC one and EC all? Rep one and Rep all? R&D one and R&D all? Commendation one and Commendation all? Some will say that it all should be like that...and well, yeah - Walmart had a Black Friday sale on /facepalms in bulk for that thought process.
One might say that it is the time involved that separates them. Even before the sponsorship changes, even before the daily boxes, even before the oodles upon oodles of ways that Cryptic went overboard turning the game into something where you had no reason to play beyond a month unless you were a homebound invalid...there really wasn't much effort/time involved in doing anything.
R&D introduced the first actual, imho, major timesink. Even Fleets weren't on this level, unless you were trying to do the solo Fleet thing - cause folks working together, getting it done - just wasn't on the level of R&D.
Unfortunately for Cryptic, they operated under the reasonable expectation that only the most OCD folks would need to get to 20 in each school...and they would never have guessed that folks would think it normal that dozens upon dozens of toons should all have that.
Which gets us to the Specialization Points, and that it's not really a case of less alts equaling less money...cause there's nothing about it that would prevent anybody from running alts.
It's only the folks that have the expectation of having multiple toons all at the same level and ready to go in the wink of an eye that are running into those issues, no?
Cause, having the one toon with 20 spec points doesn't prevent having one with 15, one with 8, and basically a bunch that aren't even that far - that are still in the low 50s. Cause that's something to keep in mind, spec points start at 50 - not at 60.
So one could say it's not really an argument about less alts, but about less alternate mains - because there's nothing stopping folks from having alts - and - spending all they would on those alts.
It would only be the expectation of having dozens of toons that are all maxed...no?
Or maybe I'm completely off there, eh? Like I said, I'm still trying to process the thought process behind the thread. Oh well...
I think its the definition of ALT that makes all the difference there. If i'd count any of my toons there regardless of progression or gear i'd have more then 50 alts, dead evolutionary ends back then from the time traits weren't changeable and toons for low level pvp (when that was still alive).. since i don't care about those dead alts but only those for high level pvp, i only consider 15 to be real alts.. or some sort of "alt" mains.. however you call it.
15 would seem excessively many to you but not to me really.. started off with an alien of each class for pvp on each side, made a cat later (jump and dodge are to important to miss in pvp) made an alien of each class for space pvp, later a romulan of each etc.. all of those pvp toons are maxed in rep and almost all my spacers are flying in lockbox ships.
Anyway to make it short i agree with the OP, specialization points should be account-bound and each point should be spendable on *every* lvl 50+ toon. Means once one accumulates 60 account-bound specialization points, specialization should be done on all toons on that account.. 60 levels to grind for specialization is enough for one account, theres still those 10 levels (50->60) to grind on each toon separately anyway and reputation too.
Theres less motivation to buy a lockbox ship for a toon that you know will always be subpar cause it will never have the necessary specialization points then opening some boxes to get a ship for a otherwise maxed toon. The real problem really remains with the fact that at least when it comes to pvp the specialization is way to much of a must-have then it should have been for something thats supposed to be such a long grind.
PS: Not to jump on the DOOOOOOOOM! bandwagon, but my two alts are effectively dead since DR. They were also kitted out with fleet gear and lobi stuff. Now they farm dilithium.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
super short answer for that: nice dreams!
Just make the XP the way it was before the nerfs, problem solved.
As one of those people who treats all of his alts (basically*) the same: same gear, same reps, often same ships, I'd fall into what you'd call having many 'mains'.
And as I'd want to keep using them all, I also want them all to have the same specs unlocked.
From what I gathered in the OP, he's in the same boat, so there you got the reason for this thread, Virus.
Personally, I see making spec points count across chars on a given account too extreme, but I agree some way of lessening the load for alts (or other 'mains') is needed, along with un-nerfing xp gains. Contemplating the long grind ahead of me, I've barely played in the last few weeks. And the nerfs that have still been hitting definitely don't inspire confidence of willingness to actually spend time playing, either.
* that 'basically' means that chronologically my oldest FED, KDF and ROM chars do get small benefits. Typically one of them is the first char to run a new rep, dispense two rep sponsorship tokens to the other two and all of them together help the other alts.
Also, this 'equality' of alts doesn't necessarily apply to 'service alt accounts'.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
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I would support this but I'll tell you one big reason why they won't do it:
The spec points from 50 to 60 are easier to get. Heck, the spec point from 50-51 is easier to get.
At most, I could see them offering a trait for the completion of secondary specializations which enhances spec point gains. Why would they do this? Because otherwise, completing secondary specializations will quickly become undesirable as people dump all of their points into primary specializations for the kits and bridge officer training.
If they launch a new specialization every 6 months and the average player takes years to complete even one, they're going to dump everything into primary specializations.
The frustration is even higher
Actually, although I have NO idea what cryptic's motivation for doing what they have been recently, especially considering the only tangible effect I can discern is making the players they haven't driven off yet angrier by the day; I can say with certainty it has had NO effect on multiple characters farming dil. In my own case it has INCREASED my alt dil farming. How? Well pre DR i was trying to get alts geared up and spent most of my time on them farming rep. Post DR i only worry about gear/rep on a few chars. The other alts ONLY farm dil. So, at least in my own case, cryptics efforts have increased my dil farming activity while simultaneously decreasing my need for dil by making leveling multiple alts an exercise in frustration.
Just my $ 0.02
I get the idea behind spec point. You play endgame content and you earn spec point. Sound fun, honestly. I had that in age of conan, and it worked well. Unfortunately, in STO, the XP reward for doing endgame content is abysmal, when you have xp reward at all (dyson BG doesn't award any xp from quests, for example). Leading to a need to grind for spec point if you want to unlock them during your lifetime.
I blame Geko.
Honestly, they should give up on this obsessive nerfing of XP. It's really indicative of a mentally unhealthy state. It all started with the 'ZOMG! They're going 17x too fast!' debacle. Just let pople have fun, like they used to. And it's equally crazy there's only 1 place in game, Argala, that hasn't had its XP payout nerfed into oblivion. Honestly, sometimes reality is so simple: if you want ppl to play in other areas as well, make those other areas attractive too!
In all the years I've played, XP was never an issue, to anyone (Devs included). What happened?!
http://www.ign.com/wikis/diablo-3/Paragon_Levels
There have always been voices that said that leveling in STO was ridiculously fast.
I think specializations were meant as a long-term thing - but not a primary activity. Something nice you get occassionally. As someone else pointed out, it may have been better to have more specialization points but lower bonuses per point, so that people see a more measurable improvement. Even if it still takes "forever" to get to the end, you hear that happy "level-up-ding." (And since there are not 60 but maybe 300 points to get, you may also much more easily accept that you can't do it in a week or a month.)
The levelling speed from 50 to 60 and the level requirements for the missions may actually be an attempt to make the content "virtually" last longer. It's not that the missions will be longer or more numerous, but it takes longer to get to them. Without that "grind", you would go through the missions and have no new mission content to look forward to, with the slow levelling you can play a few days and still know there is a mission out there - you just need to get there. The total content is the same, but the "spread" is different. Even someone that has no goals in regards to his gear or reputations would still have at least have the goal "level to see the next mission."
Honestly, I've spent around 60 spec points across my 12 characters. If they were an account wide thing... yeah. now I'd be bored and have no reason to work for stuff.
My character Tsin'xing
I have a small tribe of alts (18 in total) many of them themed to races with the correct ships load outs etc.
12 were old end game geared the other 6 were all on their way there.
It was a fun part of the game for me building up the tribe and trying out various builds and I have spent a fair bit of cashy money doing it.
But that has pretty much stopped with DR.
I am working on two of them at a slow rate (the mad grind can go and do one as far as I am concerned )
There is little doubt that if it was feasible and reasonable way to level and equip them all without causing my sanity and bank account to drain away then I would do.
I would love an account wide spec system but I have no idea how they would be able to do it.
And while we are at it all gear brought and used /R+D'd or upgraded to be account bound would be nice.
They at least need to bite the bullet and roll back the xp changes they made.
This will mean more of my alts being played and more chance of me playing longer and maybe spending some cash on them.
They way it is now my alts are loitering around esd/ds9/droz kicking their heals and dreaming of the good old days.
Or to put it another way.
The less fun for me the less money cryptic/pwe get from me.
Simples!
I thought that's exactly what they were trying to do by nerfing the STF awards and adding the equal awards to all other queue's .
But that's Cryptic for you -- apply one logic in one place in the game and another one in another place .
Just like the Borg can be this strong here and that strong somewhere else .
Dan Stahl left and he took the fun with him ?!
(in a bag ?
Who ?
... :P ...
My JHDC, Cell Ship, Armataige, NX and Connie are all in the same boat. Right now I'm only using my Fleet Akira. My Mirror Ship collection is gathering dust. There was a time when I would have ground out the lobi I need for the Assilimlated Cruiser for my Romulan...but I've given up in it. I have alts to RP (like a mirror Spock named Kcops) and a Ferengi mule for selling stuff and storage. The rest...well, I might delete a few of my alts for inactivity. My main is the only one in a fleet, that's crafting, and that's got all the reps. I haven't done ANY of these things on my alts. So yeah, I feel your pain.
Then Argala xp may be nerfed in the future to be in line with the rest of the game.
But only once they have the metrics they need to prove that loads of players have been playing DR content.
They just might gloss over the fact it is mainly the one mission (of sorts.)
That's apparently an important difference between players. There was never a moment in STO where I'd have nothing to do. Was I bored? Of course, when I played too much, I could get bored of STFing, or of endless char switching for doffing,... But there was always (and still is) so much I never got the chance to try.
By and large I never got the chance to try and learn how to play ground effectively. Accolades. Other than borg STF queues. The foundry. Heck, so many ships I want to try...
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Agree. Every fleet my alts are in is showing zero progression because no one has any dilithium to spend on something as trivial as fleet projects. I have seven characters I play, not for resource collection but because they were fun. I have several races in the fed, plus rom and Klingon each one has at least eight ships and most have 12. Now I fly one ship on my main character, and one ship on each alt, ocassionally. Not buying anything g any more.
My character Tsin'xing
You're all making me depressed...
I'm a one character person, but here's the list of ships I have and enjoy(ed) flying in: Atrox, Heavy Escort Carrier, D'Kyr, JHAS, Recluse, Orb Weaver, Galor, Wells, Bastion, Bulwark, D'Kora, Palisade
Now I only really fly the Dauntless. Out of all the other ships, I can switch it out for the Palisade or Wells, but all the gear I upgraded really only works on those 3 ships. The rest, I suppose I could still use them in the various MKXII gear they have, but in comparison, they are now so much more ineffective that it just isn't the same now. So, I fly the Dauntless...
Regarding the OP, again, doesn't really affect me as I really only have 1 character (and a Romulan alt I rarely play I suppose), but I do agree that this game forces players to stick with 1 character and 1 build, which sucks.
Why? That's exactly how paragon levels work in d3 and specializations are essentially paragon points with a different name.
I have mixed feelings as to whether I agree with this post, but it's certainly better than my feelings about the current system. (Which are exemplified by the fact that I've abandoned any attempts to max out my first FA's specs, let alone level my other 5 characters to 60.)
Quoted for emphasis.
Ah, yes. And this does not at all drastically lose effectiveness as the amount of characters on an account increases... :rolleyes:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.