'Bonus Marks' weekend becomes 'Some bonus marks, maybe' weekend

forcemajeure
forcemajeure Member Posts: 208 Arc User
Just want to start off by saying I enjoy STO, support it with my $$, and would like to see it succeed.

That being said, we all know that there is a really, really significant element of 'grind' in the game, for Dilithium, for Rep marks, for crafting, etc.

I don't mind a tolerable amount of grind - high end rewards should take a fair bit of effort, and not every shiny is needed to play.

However, when a game starts to consistently take the direction of 'we need grind and more grind, and we need to close off every possible avenue of escape from the grind, so that players become so incredibly frustrated with the grind that they throw money at us to make it go away"; well, then I start to look for a game that has a little more respect for my time and money.

Case in point: Daily marks boxes. In the past, I use Bonus Dil and Bonus Marks weekends to get a bit ahead on the grind game. I play hard on those weekends, devote too much time to them really, and get enough ahead on Dil or Marks that for the next month or so I can just play the game and not worry about the points grind.

Unfortunately, the *majority* of the marks I can earn on a Bonus weekend come from the Daily boxes - ESPECIALLY now that they have made anything but Normal STF runs generally unworkable (for PUGs at least).

If I ran an Azura and got 24 marks for completion, and 55 for the daily, I would bonus up to 119 marks for the run - a 'bonus' of 40 marks. Now that same run nets me 12 bonus for the same time spent, except that many of the STF queues have become slower - so barely 25% of the bonus for more time spent.

Same for my Romulan ground missions, I would do a ground, get 20 + the daily box, for a 'bonus' of 38... now I get a bonus of 10 total.

Of course, having saved up some 'any marks' boxes from Risa specifically to help me get over the Delta marks hump for Delta rep... I get no bonus marks at all.

I understand that they have a 'only benefit during the event' trend going, and that is fine. Except the majority of marks I am earning DURING THE EVENT aren't getting any bonus at all.

Basically they have taken one of their key player reward events and turned it into "do a lot of little things repetitively for a lot of little rewards"... in other words, back to the grind with you!

Yes, a very small percentage of players may have saved up a number of boxes for the event. I scarcely think that warrants penalizing every single player in the game of a primary source of event-timed rewards.

Keep in mind the perspective here: it is not a shower of marks falling from the sky. It is a 50% bonus, nice to have, but basically "get the rewards for 3 STFs in the time it takes to run 2". This is hardly game-economy-breaking stuff here.

Personally, I think the goodwill and respect of your players and CLIENTS is worth quite a bit more than a few extra bonus marks handed out over a weekend event. Especially an event which is intended to EARN you goodwill, not lose it.
Post edited by forcemajeure on
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Comments

  • battykoda0
    battykoda0 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    A bonus on 5 marks is not going to matter much, eh?
    Wow. There is a new KDF Science ship. I'll be!
  • nishkacm
    nishkacm Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    In my case this is one of my least favorite weekend of the bonus weekends (R&D and Dil being the favorite ones), but I can feel your pain.

    I'm glad that I don't need the marks so badly anymore myself, but for anybody who does need them it's these kinda weekends where you want to make it count.

    The Delta marks sound like a bug to me though, you might wanna submit a bug report for those.


    I also think that I'm just going to take a break from the game for a while, at least until next patch. The level grind is getting to me and there have to be more fun ways to spend my time.
  • thutmosis85
    thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    nishkacm wrote: »
    The Delta marks sound like a bug to me though, you might wanna submit a bug report for those.

    The Question is which one is the bug ... they probably just forgot to nerf the other Marks within some Boxes (cause the newer Marks Boxes, like from the MU don't reward any Bonus Marks) ... doubt anyone is gonna respond / fix it during Thanksgiving WE anyway ...

    Decided to turn in some Mark Boxes for Delta, which I really need, and turn in the other ones for Bonus Marks (still works for Dyson, Romulan etc) = at least some Dilithium, before they nerf it, too ... let's just hope they're not gonna crucify me as an Exploiter after the Weekend ... -> just my 2 Bonus Marks :P ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • warpangel
    warpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Personally, I'm glad they got rid of the bonus on marks boxes. Now I don't have to waste my bank space keeping them for the next bonus weekend anymore.

    I do agree they should still give the bonus for the daily marks earned during the event.
  • leyvin
    leyvin Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Honestly, I think the issue comes with how you earn them.
    When the content you play to actually earn the Marks is actually enjoyable, the complaints about grinding them mostly disappear...

    I mean really how many people were complaining during the Dyson Sphere expansion, outside of the bugs; honestly it was the first expansion in ages that actually got me to seriously look forward to logging in each day to do daily runs in the Ground and Space Zones.

    They weren't perfect by any means, but they were actually what you would call "Fun" ... or at least what passes for it in STO nowadays and that really is the key here. If what you're doing if actually enjoyable you don't really end up caring that you have to grind away at it.
  • flash525
    flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Don't attempt to run Vicious Circle - it still doesn't work. :rolleyes:
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • bobbydazlers
    bobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,532 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I really cant see why they have a separate box for the daily bonus anyway, they have it well within the system capabilities to combine all the marks so that if you are receiving the daily bonus you get x and if not you get y.
    if they just awarded the marks in one go instead of giving the bonus marks boxed there would be no boxes to save and when you got a marks weekend you would get the extra on your total award.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • gentoorax
    gentoorax Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I pretty much agree with everything said by forcemajeure.

    I love the game but with each update things seem to feel like you have to grind more and more, working your way through the reputation system these days feels like the mud just keeps getting thicker!

    How many times can you repeat these PvEs a day before your bored senseless! I'm just glad I started before some of these restrictions came into effect.
  • mikiiy
    mikiiy Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Goes perfectly along with this decision during the dil weekend:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20191171&postcount=9

    Just another example of a fail-development decision to prevent people from working around the grind.
  • cmdrscarlet
    cmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Well, they are trying to get you to play the game *more* ;)
  • js26568
    js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Well, they are trying to get you to play the game *more* ;)

    It's a shame that the "People spend more if they spend longer playing the game" theory falls apart when people aren't having fun, isn't it?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • darin010
    darin010 Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I used to like Mark weekends they were useful to my self and my fleet. But now what is the use of even bothering to log on during Mark weekends? A little bit of nothing compared to the huge amount of Rep projects and fleet projects to get a bonus of 10 marks if not a little more or a little less after the daily bonus is useless. What's the point of logging on during this so called bonus weekend at all. You still get more doing your 1 daily mission and logging off.

    As for playing the game longer and spending more money. I don't know what they are thinking they have kill the game play. Yeah I have spent a good amount of money on this game but that's drying up quickly and I see less and less reason to spend at all. Any thing we buy gets nurfed in the first few days any way so why bother its just wiser to deal with what we have ya know.
  • binebane
    binebane Member Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    also 250 mark box from mirror event wont give any bonus...
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Well I believe that this was a hasty change made because when the original Delta Reputation code was set it was before the auto-open was added for the other stuff. Because they never got around to implement that on Delta because of the demanding schedule we have boxes (though if you notice some payouts were not through boxes - the 50 Marks for The Cavalry, for instance). And as they never implemented after release they now had a situation with the Bonus Mark Event, hence all Daily Bonuses were excluded instead.

    Make no mistake, this was a last minute, holy sh*t change. It was not on the Triibble Patch Notes for the 24th at all but added onto the Holodeck ones put out late in the day that same day for implementation on the 25th.

    The Blog is worded the same as the one from September that you get the bonus for ALL content awarding Marks - ALL; and it did then. The most this would have meant would have been 27 extra Marks for around 43 potential Daily Bonus Boxes or 1161 Delta Marks per character where the player stored them up. I also understand that the Bonus is now also not given for the award you get for reaching T5 in a Reputation (thus saving another 375 Marks for each rep except for those cheapskate Omega guys who only pay out 500, so 250 there).

    As to the earlier post about this being similar decision to the one made for dilitium. None of this holds up, if it was the Delta Content Boxes would also have not doubled that were saved. If they had properly implemented the Delta rewards we wouldn't be in this situation as Daily Bonus Marks that were awarded during the Event would have doubled on auto-open.

    This is a sledge-hammer measure instituted at the last minute because the corrective work that needed to be done by the Developers was not done.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • nicha0
    nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    leyvin wrote: »
    Honestly, I think the issue comes with how you earn them.
    When the content you play to actually earn the Marks is actually enjoyable, the complaints about grinding them mostly disappear...

    I mean really how many people were complaining during the Dyson Sphere expansion, outside of the bugs; honestly it was the first expansion in ages that actually got me to seriously look forward to logging in each day to do daily runs in the Ground and Space Zones.

    They weren't perfect by any means, but they were actually what you would call "Fun" ... or at least what passes for it in STO nowadays and that really is the key here. If what you're doing if actually enjoyable you don't really end up caring that you have to grind away at it.

    This is the problem with the game right here. And when something is new it tends to be fun.. but STO content gets stale very fast due to power creep/ease as well as static mission design.

    When something is fun, challenging and makes you think, you don't often think of it as a grind.. when you just need to show up and auto fire.. well you count the seconds until its over, when there is a timer already doing that for you.... you quit the game.
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  • thutmosis85
    thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Again pretty confused right now ... did "Bug Hunt Advanced" ~20 times within the last 24 hours ... always got 37 Delta Marks ... the 21st time I got another 37 Mark Package, but after opening it ... it's all of a sudden 45 Marks (something I've seen before, during the first hours of the Event) ... what's the "right" number ?

    EDIT : 2nd Try 45 Marks again ... Ninja Fix ... Ninja Bug ... I dunno ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • lowy1
    lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    mikiiy wrote: »
    Goes perfectly along with this decision during the dil weekend:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20191171&postcount=9

    Just another example of a fail-development decision to prevent people from working around the grind.


    What's funny is in his sig it says "play smart":P Too bad STO Players are very likely to be punished for playing smart:rolleyes:
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • mikiiy
    mikiiy Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    lowy1 wrote: »
    What's funny is in his sig it says "play smart":P Too bad STO Players are very likely to be punished for playing smart:rolleyes:

    Haha so true that, didn't even notice that yet :)
  • shinra84
    shinra84 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    bonus mark... YA! Right! rotfl
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  • thomasp94232
    thomasp94232 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    binebane wrote: »
    also 250 mark box from mirror event wont give any bonus...

    This ^ This really made me unhappy. Why can't we at least get the bonus on delta marks for the recent 250 box from mirror?? I thought this was a bug at first, of course not.

    I've been here since beta
  • js26568
    js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This ^ This really made me unhappy. Why can't we at least get the bonus on delta marks for the recent 250 box from mirror?? I thought this was a bug at first, of course not.

    Marks can be turned into Dilithium. Unrefined, of course, but the developers of this game have some sort of irrational paranoid phobia about players having too much dilithium that borders on the insane.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • daqhegh
    daqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    darin010 wrote: »
    I used to like Mark weekends they were useful to my self and my fleet. But now what is the use of even bothering to log on during Mark weekends? A little bit of nothing compared to the huge amount of Rep projects and fleet projects to get a bonus of 10 marks if not a little more or a little less after the daily bonus is useless. What's the point of logging on during this so called bonus weekend at all. You still get more doing your 1 daily mission and logging off.

    That's where I'm at. The only marks I need right now are Delta, and possibly fleet for projects. For some reason I keep hitting Dyson on the list of marks...but I'll eventually convert those to DIL so it isn't all a waste.

    The most I do when I log in now is send out my DOffs, reset my rep, do one or two queues (god forbid anyone is actually IN them) and that's it. When I'm feeling adventurous I'll be cruising around looking for DOff Sci missions for Mats. The whole process takes, at most, half an hour.

    Helluva game we got, ain't it?
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • aelfwin1
    aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The Daily marks box nerf just made this into a non-event for me basically .

    I choose my grinds , and this is not worth it ... -- it would not even be worth it if the queues were full and playable .
  • rsoblivion
    rsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Using up the maximum setup of 2 Hourly's and 1 Daily for Delta marks you only need 2520 to complete it in 36 days. For a sponsored toon it's half that at 18 days and a total of 1260 marks. At cheapest it requires only 1200 when only using the Daily for 40 day completion or 600 for sponsored toon in 20 days.

    The only advantage of running the hourly's is that you get sellable gear out of it and a little bit of Dil. For the effort input to get them, it's probably more advantageous to get Dil elsewhere and save the marks for gear from the DR Rep. I've almost completed the DR Rep on my 4 main toons solely from the MU event. Haven't bothered grinding DR Rep marks otherwise.

    TBH the only thing this weekend is useful for is gaining extra Marks from STF's for Fleet or Rep gear. You need a high mark event for it to be worth it, currently most of them aren't worth it for the time expended.
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • thutmosis85
    thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Just got 1 Mark for fighting Vaud'waar in the Kobali Prime Trenches ... but hey it's Bonus Mark Weekend, I demand 1 Bonus Mark ... :P

    PS : Now, I know why they got rid of Mark Tribbles ... they were too effective :P
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • phantrosity
    phantrosity Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    rsoblivion wrote: »
    Using up the maximum setup of 2 Hourly's and 1 Daily for Delta marks you only need 2520 to complete it in 36 days. For a sponsored toon it's half that at 18 days and a total of 1260 marks. At cheapest it requires only 1200 when only using the Daily for 40 day completion or 600 for sponsored toon in 20 days.

    You can actually do it in 36 days using only dailies, if you set things up right.
  • the1tigglet
    the1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Indeed. It might be that one hand has no idea what the other one is doing and this is why the game is in such bad shape now.

    I found a way to beat them at the SP grind. Turn the bar off in the hud and the problem goes away. Out of sight, out of mind..kinda

    I don't think it's the devs plural in this case I think it's only one person who seems to have a phobia about it and that's D'Angelo, this company could do so much better with the right person at the wheel but unfortunately we have the Cryptic equivalent of Blizzards Ghost Crawler in charge.
  • qjunior
    qjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    rsoblivion wrote: »
    Using up the maximum setup of 2 Hourly's and 1 Daily for Delta marks you only need 2520 to complete it in 36 days. For a sponsored toon it's half that at 18 days and a total of 1260 marks. At cheapest it requires only 1225 when only using the Daily for 40 day completion or 625 for sponsored toon in 20 days.

    Felt like nitpicking, you forgot the cost of the tier upgrades. :P
  • architect13
    architect13 Member Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I find myself participating less and less in the"bonus" weekends. I would participate in a skill point weekend . . . Play all weekend for and extra 100 skill points, count me in! :D
    Have you tried the new forum on your phone?