I have to ask, why do people feel they need to max out everything in a matter of weeks?
hear is a better question.
since what he and others are talking about has nothing to do with you or other cause players play experience, why do you and others think the rest of us should also only be casual players and or players who just do not care?
really though if you dont care fine move along all is well in your world great. but some of us are not the same happy campers that others are. when you start looking at the numbers and realize just how long it is all going to take and then multiply that by your ALTS well it gets depressing.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Lets also bring in those spec points helping with adv/elite queues and how long it will take to get the points, to how long those queues are getting emptier and emptier as more and more people give up.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
The sad truth is that easier leveling of alts would = more money from us to Cryptic as we'd be spending more on ship upgrades, etc.
Amazing that the money hungry people at Cryptic seem to have overlooked this, isn't it? I had to give up my Rom alt because of all the insane money-grubbing. If Cryptic had been but a modicum more reasonable about everything, I would have kept her, and spend money on her too. Alas, greediness killed the cat.
You are missing the point. Do you realise that at level 60 there are 50 more levels to go and to gain each level or specialisation point requires a mind numbing 154000 XP. So if you were to play every replayable mission in the game again, that's about 100 of them at 2000 XP each, you would gain 1 and a half spec points. Now do you see how hopelessly out of whack this is?
I think you are missing their intention.
Its wasn't meant to be something you can do in a week or even a month. Much like the original idea behind the Starbases, it is a long-term system. It was meant a type of progression for max level characters.
This is why the system isn't complete.
This is why you can keep earning points until you fill all the trees.
They intend to add more Spec trees.
If I recall, this was stated in a dev blog. This is akin to the Merit Point from FFXI (pre-abyssea)
They are trying to extend endgame content. (I will agree that it isn't very palatable to the casual player, but that could have been intentional)
(although I would have preferred they did more with ship leveling and specing. A full spec tree for each ship would have been cool...but I guess that would eat up a TRIBBLE-ton of data)
I think you are missing their intention.
Its wasn't meant to be something you can do in a week or even a month. Much like the original idea behind the Starbases, it is a long-term system. It was meant a type of progression for max level characters.
This is why the system isn't complete.
This is why you can keep earning points until you fill all the trees.
They intend to add more Spec trees.
If I recall, this was stated in a dev blog. This is akin to the Merit Point from FFXI (pre-abyssea)
They are trying to extend endgame content. (I will agree that it isn't very palatable to the casual player, but that could have been intentional)
(although I would have preferred they did more with ship leveling and specing. A full spec tree for each ship would have been cool...but I guess that would eat up a TRIBBLE-ton of data)
I can see your point, and it is very well made.
However the whole spec point thing, and the silent nerf yesterdays patch, has made this whole thing go down as well as finding your dog has done a TRIBBLE on your mother in laws brand new designer white sofa.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
The sad truth is that easier leveling of alts would = more money from us to Cryptic as we'd be spending more on ship upgrades, etc.
Yet this breeds another inescapable question :
If STO was an Alt friendly game for 4 years ... , what changed -- and specifically what changed recently that has lead them to take this Alt unfriendly approach ?
... another question would be, what would their benefits be from such an approach ...
Amazing that the money hungry people at Cryptic seem to have overlooked this, isn't it? I had to give up my Rom alt because of all the insane money-grubbing. If Cryptic had been but a modicum more reasonable about everything, I would have kept her, and spend money on her too. Alas, greediness killed the cat.
Or they may be looking at the WoW idea of the 'Instant Level Token' and saying 'Hmmmmm'
The Upgrade Tokens were advertised as 'For people who want to continue using their old ships'
They don't work on ships bought with dilithium. So they were pretty much a pacifier to keep people from exploding when they moved up the level cap and adding T6 ships. This did not work as intended
The addition T6 was a money-making ploy. Upgrading T5 with T6 traits and specs would have been fine, but they wanted to sell ships. Another poor choice. It screams greed. They could have just called the T5U ships, T6 ships. But the Z-store T6 ships come with a cool trait by default (sorta like the cool consoles)..I betcha no one would have batted an eye. The semantics would have saved them a lot of pain
In the end, all they had to do to offset most of this rage was make the reward for the first Delta mission a Ship upgrade Token that you can only collect on the first run-through. They could have still make money off people upgrading the other ships in their roster.
People will always buy shiny new ships. They really didn't need to shove them down our throats.
I literally spent 10 minutes flying around someone in the new Pathfinder saying 'OOOOOO its so pretty!' over Skype to my Fleetmates.
"Extend endgame content" by making us play the same thing over and over and over and over and over again? Because what other alternatives are there to gain sizable amounts of skill points?
Normally I wouldn't go this far but I say its time for Geko to go onto another project or be replaced as lead. Since before DR was released this has been a train wreck in one form or another.
Something needs to change and his attitude toward the players has become unprofessional. DR has been a PR disaster of epic scale. Someone at cryptic needs to start cleaning up this mess hardcore and Geko has proven he is not that guy with this last mess piled on.
It's intended for us to grind the same content over and over again till our eyes bleed in order to simply get to the next story arc mission. But never fret, gauze bandages and medical tape will be available in the c-store soon.
No they aren't, we still haven't gotten the KY jelly from the original implementation of the C-Store.
The thin end of the wedge ain't so thin no more.
"Extend endgame content" by making us play the same thing over and over and over and over and over again? Because what other alternatives are there to gain sizable amounts of skill points?
I'm half convinced that these people who talk about how it's endgame content, are the devs :rolleyes:
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
If STO was an Alt friendly game for 4 years ... , what changed -- and specifically what changed recently that has lead them to take this Alt unfriendly approach ?
... another question would be, what would their benefits be from such an approach ...
I'm only spit balling Here but it think the reason that STO has morphed into this anti-Alt MMO is because it brings it more in line with some of the other MMO's under PWE.
I most of PWE other MMOs the goal seems to be to get there players invested in one Character and then keep offering new things to buy or Grind for that the Player to get for that one Character.
The Current Grind here in STO would not seem so bad if you knew that you'd only have to run though it one time so Cryptic does all they can to slow your progression to a rate that will take you with consistent play of a couple of hours a day about 60 days to achieve the desired goal.
I think the trick for the above is how to get the player locked up and committed to one main Character and the best way to do that IMO is to take the focus off multiple game mechanics and simplify it down to one main factor............ DAMAGE.
Why play any other Characters who may not have the DPS to deal with the new HP bloated NPC when your trusty main can make quick work of them
Make the game paly boil down to one factor and then hope that your player base chooses one Character that keep up with the curve.
Players with a few alts is grind for what it is GRIND but players with one real Main see it has a new challenge to get that main past
I'm not missing anything at all, it seems my friend that it is you that is massively out of tune with the rest of the chorus here.
You extend your endgame by what, making someone run through a patrol hundreds and hundreds of times? No, they should extend their end game by adding more content, but the amount of content they would have to add to get your first toon to level 110 is:
7,900,000 XP required to get to level 110
divided by, and let's be generous, 10,000 XP per new mission,
gives a whopping 790 new missions, holy cow!
It also means playing Argala patrol for 1000 runs to get to level 110. PER FREAKING TOON!
There is a difference between extending the progression and making it impossible for all but the most masochistic spacebar mashers out there.
What they have done here is ruined the game for levelling ALTS, made it way way way way too repetitive for levelling even your main toon, emptied the queues by giving crappy rewards or making the whole thing so tedious you'd rather watch paint dry, and charged us an absolute fortune in terms of time, XP, DIL, and patience.
I have been accused of being an apologist for the devs, well not any more, this time they have crossed the line.
It is clear you are upset and I understand why, but I was pointing out their intentions.
As I stated, it was meant to be a long-term EXTENSION to endgame.
They clearly designed this system for use on your MAIN character.
Your alts will be fine at 60 for now. They are alts.
Before Delta Rising, what was your main character doing? STFs? Dilithium farming?
dancing at Drozana?
They wanted to give your main something to do. (or look forward to rather)
I will agree that there needs to be more to do to get XP besides from STFs and spamming patrols, but that wasn't the point.
If you were doing STFs before, nothing should change except now you are gaining skill points towards a goal again.
(and the STFs are annoying as hell to PUG, but thats another issue)
oh and the STFs rewards DO need more revamping. One purple mat for Advanced? PFFT make it 1-5 and we can talk
"Extend endgame content" by making us play the same thing over and over and over and over and over again? Because what other alternatives are there to gain sizable amounts of skill points?
Hey, I never said it was a great idea in ANY of my posts. But if you look at most other MMOs, don't you just spam raids for gear so you can spam raids for gear? (over and over and over again)
oh, but I guess there is always PvP... oops
I have to ask, why do people feel they need to max out everything in a matter of weeks?
Indeed.
All this is part of a bigger issue. Even if the levelling was re-done again to a point where everyone is happy with the compromise what is waiting for us at level 60? Just more grind, only this time for reputations, gear and these God-awful spec points.
Which of course undo all the work done to control standard traits, so now everyone will be once again over-saturated with passives. Good job. Makes about as much sense as 'adding more HP' to counter the creep.
I digress.
It's little wonder so many burn through alts all the time, and I myself go one step further. When I'm back after a break I don't pick up where I left off, I wipe the slate and start fresh. The earlier content and going through the early levels is the fun bit.
The endgame is just a Frankenstein mess of re-hashed content, broken plot lines and over saturation of everything. Gear, reps, traits/spec points, marks...just filler to keep people going until the next season where more is piled on top and the chicken run begins anew.
It's a finite way to develop a game, and quite lazy as well.
If STO was an Alt friendly game for 4 years ... , what changed -- and specifically what changed recently that has lead them to take this Alt unfriendly approach ?
... another question would be, what would their benefits be from such an approach ...
You assume this is intended. I think they are doing things with little understanding of the outcomes, basing decisions on what the most extreme players are getting and with no real grasp on how it affects average players. I don't think they really have much of a feel for implications or side ffects.
You assume this is intended. I think they are doing things with little understanding of the outcomes, basing decisions on what the most extreme players are getting and with no real grasp on how it affects average players. I don't think they really have much of a feel for implications or side ffects.
Unless it affects their C-store, nope they do not care.
PROUD TO PLAY THIS GAME MINUS TO GIVING ANY INCOME TO CRYPTIC
since what he and others are talking about has nothing to do with you or other cause players play experience, why do you and others think the rest of us should also only be casual players and or players who just do not care?
really though if you dont care fine move along all is well in your world great. but some of us are not the same happy campers that others are. when you start looking at the numbers and realize just how long it is all going to take and then multiply that by your ALTS well it gets depressing.
Frankly the dynamic isn't friendly to casual players either. Casual players only get to play a littler here and there. At this point int time there is little or no reward in short bits of play. I used to be able to enjot popping on for an 30 minutes to an hour and getting something out of it. Now It may take weeks of that before I get something out of it.ime till he fixes it. and if he doesn't, then he gets nothing.
You assume this is intended. I think they are doing things with little understanding of the outcomes, basing decisions on what the most extreme players are getting and with no real grasp on how it affects average players. I don't think they really have much of a feel for implications or side effects.
THIS. 100% this. Its been my suspicion for a while now.
You assume this is intended. I think they are doing things with little understanding of the outcomes, basing decisions on what the most extreme players are getting and with no real grasp on how it affects average players. I don't think they really have much of a feel for implications or side ffects.
I really think this is what's going on.
Their metrics seem so hopelessly skewed towards what the extreme dps players/whales do and balance around that, completely ignoring that this makes it nigh unplayable for the rest.
I really think this is what's going on.
Their metrics seem so hopelessly skewed towards what the extreme dps players/whales do and balance around that, completely ignoring that this makes it nigh unplayable for the rest.
Well, I'm sure at some point they'll get it. Only have my fleetmates left, any IRl friends left. I was about to try to get one back since they rereleased his favorite ST ship, the Intrepid. But, thought otherwise after seeing the new Xp to level up.
And After a year break I ccame back when they just changed the whole getting every rep passive to only being able to pick 4 space, 4 ground....to try to counter power creep. Only for them to add the spec tree like they forget what they just did completely.
the Xp was fine they way it was, but the Whales were leveling 17X faster then they wanted so they've been trying to find a balance instead of saying "Good for them". Since if a whale has everything what do they do then? spend more money on a new ship to see what they can do with it. Instead they make it harder for casuals, in turn hurt everyone that has more then 1 toon? again affecting money to be made off them alts all needing ships/gear. lol..
I'm thinking they don't know how to run the game. I was a defender, but no don't care anymore, this is all knee jerk after knee jerk.
Players with a few alts is grind for what it is GRIND but players with one real Main see it has a new challenge to get that main past
That just how I see it
See, this is what I don't get.
Surely multiple alts are a good moneyspinner - more ship modules. keys, dil for fleet items, extra BOff / DOff slots... rather than "buy once and be done" as will happen with a single alt.
This is what I don't get about the current model. Nothing in it seems geared towards getting players to spend money, which should be the aim. If anything, slowing down players' progress could deter them from wanting to try out new ships and builds.
The only rational answer I can think of is that somewhere in Cryptic's key performance indicators, on which they have to report to PWE, is a big piece on how much time players are spending on/in the latest content - presumably as a test of how successful this is. Therefore, players (like me) who focus on other areas are a BAD thing and need to be beaten into line. Hence, remove all other sources of good advancement...
Comments
This exactly.
I've only got 2 of 40 leveled to 60 and for ME .... that says something.
It's not that I can't ... It's that I don't want to.
Content is fun. The grind isn't.
The bulk of my other alt-a-holic fleetmates are the exact same.
The sad truth is that easier leveling of alts would = more money from us to Cryptic as we'd be spending more on ship upgrades, etc.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Amazing that the money hungry people at Cryptic seem to have overlooked this isn't it?
Would you recommend STO to a friend?
Requires a brain in the first place, because to say they know what they're doing with the current state of the game is ridiculous in itself.
I've long since given up on my alt. And to all my fellow Argala players:
"Ye who grind here, abandon all hope."
hear is a better question.
since what he and others are talking about has nothing to do with you or other cause players play experience, why do you and others think the rest of us should also only be casual players and or players who just do not care?
really though if you dont care fine move along all is well in your world great. but some of us are not the same happy campers that others are. when you start looking at the numbers and realize just how long it is all going to take and then multiply that by your ALTS well it gets depressing.
Amazing that the money hungry people at Cryptic seem to have overlooked this, isn't it? I had to give up my Rom alt because of all the insane money-grubbing. If Cryptic had been but a modicum more reasonable about everything, I would have kept her, and spend money on her too. Alas, greediness killed the cat.
I think you are missing their intention.
Its wasn't meant to be something you can do in a week or even a month. Much like the original idea behind the Starbases, it is a long-term system. It was meant a type of progression for max level characters.
This is why the system isn't complete.
This is why you can keep earning points until you fill all the trees.
They intend to add more Spec trees.
If I recall, this was stated in a dev blog. This is akin to the Merit Point from FFXI (pre-abyssea)
They are trying to extend endgame content. (I will agree that it isn't very palatable to the casual player, but that could have been intentional)
(although I would have preferred they did more with ship leveling and specing. A full spec tree for each ship would have been cool...but I guess that would eat up a TRIBBLE-ton of data)
I can see your point, and it is very well made.
However the whole spec point thing, and the silent nerf yesterdays patch, has made this whole thing go down as well as finding your dog has done a TRIBBLE on your mother in laws brand new designer white sofa.
Yet this breeds another inescapable question :
If STO was an Alt friendly game for 4 years ... , what changed -- and specifically what changed recently that has lead them to take this Alt unfriendly approach ?
... another question would be, what would their benefits be from such an approach ...
Or they may be looking at the WoW idea of the 'Instant Level Token' and saying 'Hmmmmm'
The Upgrade Tokens were advertised as 'For people who want to continue using their old ships'
They don't work on ships bought with dilithium. So they were pretty much a pacifier to keep people from exploding when they moved up the level cap and adding T6 ships. This did not work as intended
The addition T6 was a money-making ploy. Upgrading T5 with T6 traits and specs would have been fine, but they wanted to sell ships. Another poor choice. It screams greed. They could have just called the T5U ships, T6 ships. But the Z-store T6 ships come with a cool trait by default (sorta like the cool consoles)..I betcha no one would have batted an eye. The semantics would have saved them a lot of pain
In the end, all they had to do to offset most of this rage was make the reward for the first Delta mission a Ship upgrade Token that you can only collect on the first run-through. They could have still make money off people upgrading the other ships in their roster.
People will always buy shiny new ships. They really didn't need to shove them down our throats.
I literally spent 10 minutes flying around someone in the new Pathfinder saying 'OOOOOO its so pretty!' over Skype to my Fleetmates.
"Extend endgame content" by making us play the same thing over and over and over and over and over again? Because what other alternatives are there to gain sizable amounts of skill points?
Something needs to change and his attitude toward the players has become unprofessional. DR has been a PR disaster of epic scale. Someone at cryptic needs to start cleaning up this mess hardcore and Geko has proven he is not that guy with this last mess piled on.
No they aren't, we still haven't gotten the KY jelly from the original implementation of the C-Store.
The thin end of the wedge ain't so thin no more.
I'm half convinced that these people who talk about how it's endgame content, are the devs :rolleyes:
I'm only spit balling Here but it think the reason that STO has morphed into this anti-Alt MMO is because it brings it more in line with some of the other MMO's under PWE.
I most of PWE other MMOs the goal seems to be to get there players invested in one Character and then keep offering new things to buy or Grind for that the Player to get for that one Character.
The Current Grind here in STO would not seem so bad if you knew that you'd only have to run though it one time so Cryptic does all they can to slow your progression to a rate that will take you with consistent play of a couple of hours a day about 60 days to achieve the desired goal.
I think the trick for the above is how to get the player locked up and committed to one main Character and the best way to do that IMO is to take the focus off multiple game mechanics and simplify it down to one main factor............ DAMAGE.
Why play any other Characters who may not have the DPS to deal with the new HP bloated NPC when your trusty main can make quick work of them
Make the game paly boil down to one factor and then hope that your player base chooses one Character that keep up with the curve.
Players with a few alts is grind for what it is GRIND but players with one real Main see it has a new challenge to get that main past
That just how I see it
It is clear you are upset and I understand why, but I was pointing out their intentions.
As I stated, it was meant to be a long-term EXTENSION to endgame.
They clearly designed this system for use on your MAIN character.
Your alts will be fine at 60 for now. They are alts.
Before Delta Rising, what was your main character doing? STFs? Dilithium farming?
dancing at Drozana?
They wanted to give your main something to do. (or look forward to rather)
I will agree that there needs to be more to do to get XP besides from STFs and spamming patrols, but that wasn't the point.
If you were doing STFs before, nothing should change except now you are gaining skill points towards a goal again.
(and the STFs are annoying as hell to PUG, but thats another issue)
oh and the STFs rewards DO need more revamping. One purple mat for Advanced? PFFT make it 1-5 and we can talk
Hey, I never said it was a great idea in ANY of my posts. But if you look at most other MMOs, don't you just spam raids for gear so you can spam raids for gear? (over and over and over again)
oh, but I guess there is always PvP... oops
Making endgame so extended is not the same as adding content.
Indeed.
All this is part of a bigger issue. Even if the levelling was re-done again to a point where everyone is happy with the compromise what is waiting for us at level 60? Just more grind, only this time for reputations, gear and these God-awful spec points.
Which of course undo all the work done to control standard traits, so now everyone will be once again over-saturated with passives. Good job. Makes about as much sense as 'adding more HP' to counter the creep.
I digress.
It's little wonder so many burn through alts all the time, and I myself go one step further. When I'm back after a break I don't pick up where I left off, I wipe the slate and start fresh. The earlier content and going through the early levels is the fun bit.
The endgame is just a Frankenstein mess of re-hashed content, broken plot lines and over saturation of everything. Gear, reps, traits/spec points, marks...just filler to keep people going until the next season where more is piled on top and the chicken run begins anew.
It's a finite way to develop a game, and quite lazy as well.
You assume this is intended. I think they are doing things with little understanding of the outcomes, basing decisions on what the most extreme players are getting and with no real grasp on how it affects average players. I don't think they really have much of a feel for implications or side ffects.
Unless it affects their C-store, nope they do not care.
Frankly the dynamic isn't friendly to casual players either. Casual players only get to play a littler here and there. At this point int time there is little or no reward in short bits of play. I used to be able to enjot popping on for an 30 minutes to an hour and getting something out of it. Now It may take weeks of that before I get something out of it.ime till he fixes it. and if he doesn't, then he gets nothing.
THIS. 100% this. Its been my suspicion for a while now.
The thing is, at this crawling rate, a good majority of players will never max it out because they'll keep putting out new spec grinds each season.
I really think this is what's going on.
Their metrics seem so hopelessly skewed towards what the extreme dps players/whales do and balance around that, completely ignoring that this makes it nigh unplayable for the rest.
Well, I'm sure at some point they'll get it. Only have my fleetmates left, any IRl friends left. I was about to try to get one back since they rereleased his favorite ST ship, the Intrepid. But, thought otherwise after seeing the new Xp to level up.
And After a year break I ccame back when they just changed the whole getting every rep passive to only being able to pick 4 space, 4 ground....to try to counter power creep. Only for them to add the spec tree like they forget what they just did completely.
the Xp was fine they way it was, but the Whales were leveling 17X faster then they wanted so they've been trying to find a balance instead of saying "Good for them". Since if a whale has everything what do they do then? spend more money on a new ship to see what they can do with it. Instead they make it harder for casuals, in turn hurt everyone that has more then 1 toon? again affecting money to be made off them alts all needing ships/gear. lol..
I'm thinking they don't know how to run the game. I was a defender, but no don't care anymore, this is all knee jerk after knee jerk.
See, this is what I don't get.
Surely multiple alts are a good moneyspinner - more ship modules. keys, dil for fleet items, extra BOff / DOff slots... rather than "buy once and be done" as will happen with a single alt.
This is what I don't get about the current model. Nothing in it seems geared towards getting players to spend money, which should be the aim. If anything, slowing down players' progress could deter them from wanting to try out new ships and builds.
The only rational answer I can think of is that somewhere in Cryptic's key performance indicators, on which they have to report to PWE, is a big piece on how much time players are spending on/in the latest content - presumably as a test of how successful this is. Therefore, players (like me) who focus on other areas are a BAD thing and need to be beaten into line. Hence, remove all other sources of good advancement...