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KDF T6 idea - Enhanced Science Destroyer
staq16
Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
So having looked at the wishlists, it occurred to me that the 3(!) Fed science vessels at T6 all represent a continuation of the standard Starfleet science vessel model.
So what... the Federation appears not to have pursued the idea of a variable-mode Science Destroyer after the Dyson series experiments, but the concept itself wonderfully Klingon; when the need arises your science ship turns itself into a combat vessel. The Klingons are not barbarians (except in the most literal sense, hairy foreigners) and they would have some sort of science ship capability. Being unscientific, I see more KDF and Rom DSDs than their Fed counterparts (probably due to the lack of sci options for those factions) but it would be nice to see the idea developed.
The Gorn ships, while good, are a bit too similar to their Fed counterparts. Having the KDF develop the concept of a variable-mode destroyer would give them a science option distinct from those of the Federation.
The mechanics, while complex, are all there; "all" Cryptic would need to do would be deliver a reskin as for the Intrepid - DSDs were already very modern and made with experimental tech so if anything could be fully upgraded to T6...
I would like to see something like:
Cdr/Lt Cdr Tac
Cdr/Lt Cdr Sci
Lt Sci / Intel
Lt Eng
Ens Uni
... Oh and make the mode-switch cannons Disruptors.
So what... the Federation appears not to have pursued the idea of a variable-mode Science Destroyer after the Dyson series experiments, but the concept itself wonderfully Klingon; when the need arises your science ship turns itself into a combat vessel. The Klingons are not barbarians (except in the most literal sense, hairy foreigners) and they would have some sort of science ship capability. Being unscientific, I see more KDF and Rom DSDs than their Fed counterparts (probably due to the lack of sci options for those factions) but it would be nice to see the idea developed.
The Gorn ships, while good, are a bit too similar to their Fed counterparts. Having the KDF develop the concept of a variable-mode destroyer would give them a science option distinct from those of the Federation.
The mechanics, while complex, are all there; "all" Cryptic would need to do would be deliver a reskin as for the Intrepid - DSDs were already very modern and made with experimental tech so if anything could be fully upgraded to T6...
I would like to see something like:
Cdr/Lt Cdr Tac
Cdr/Lt Cdr Sci
Lt Sci / Intel
Lt Eng
Ens Uni
... Oh and make the mode-switch cannons Disruptors.
Post edited by staq16 on
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Comments
The KDF still has a few things that the Feds are drooling over. Unless they want to get into the lockbox lotto Feds still don't have a good carrier. The closest they have to a BoP is a failboat next to a t4 BoP. The KDF has better hanger pets. Pointing back to the lockbox lotto the KDF has a cheaper way to get good consoles. So the KDF doomsaying is kind of weird to me.
While I understand your cynicism, part of my logic is that it *isn't* an advantage - otherwise DSDs would have been far more prevalent amonst Starfleet science captains. They are pretty common for KDF / Romulans as there are few other options beside Temporal Science Vessels. Plus, ironically, many have argued that the Rom DSD > KDF DSD > Fed DSD by dint of the battle cloak / cloak on otherwise near-identical ships.
A T6 KDF DSD (death by abbreviations there...) would not be intended to supercede the Fed T5, rather to stand as an equivalent-but-different peer to the T6 Fed sci ships.
And at the moment, the KDF arguably have the best C-store escort in the game with the Mat'Ha - certainly the purest damage dealer - plus chunks of the PVP community rating the Qib above the Eclipse as an intel cruiser.
You're probably right and it won't happen, but I just think it would be nice rather than a copypaste of a Fed science ship.
I think the kdf needs a 4 sci console BOP, not a re-hash of the dyson. Intel cmdr uni seat and say 3/4/4 consoles (3 eng).
I agree - a T6 BoP is definitely the KDF priority, probably followed by a carrier, and then some sort of Sci ship. Having the first T6 Raider and Carrier would be a nice way of re-asserting KDF distinctiveness.
Having said that; if/when they get around to a T6 KDF sci ship, I stand by my view that the DSD would be a good model, ESPECIALLY if they're not doing the same for the Feds...
I was overly cynical in my previous post. I"m quite the opposite of a doomsayer when it comes to the KDF. The Klinks are my favorite faction to play and the number of Mat'has and Qibs I see flying around lately gives me hope that Cryptic will be encouraged to introduce more new KDF ships in the near future. I've seen multiple people asking for a T6 BoP, carrier or sci ship, and I think any of those would be a good addition.
My main point was that I think it's highly, HIGHLY unlikely that we would ever see our own Dyson upgraded to be superior to the Fed or Romulan versions. The amount of QQing from the Fed side would be unbelievable were that to happen.
You want my idea for a T6 science destroyer? Here it is:
Battlecruiser external visuals, perhaps incorporating Kamarag and K'Tinga styles to set it apart from the Tork and Mogh tactical battlecruisers.
Hull: lvl50 38000, scaled up appropriately for lvl60/ship rank bonuses.
shield modifier: 1.35
4/4 weapons setup
3 devices
NO subsystem targetting or sensor analysis
Integrated Klingon Cloaking Device
Turn rate: 11
Inertia Rating: 30
Impulse modifier: 0.16
Boffs: CMDR / LtCMDR / LtCMDR / LT / ENS
Consoles: X X X / X X X X X / X X (Fleet T6 add 3rd tactical)
SECOND DEFLECTOR (note: You can slot ANY deflector. It doesn't have to be a "secondary deflector" -- and you can get various set bonuses if you mix 1 shield with 1 deflector, and another engine with the secondary.
No console needed, no gimmicks needed, but worthy stats for a KDF T6 science destroyer.
However, in light of the fact this is both a science ship and a destroyer (tactical leaning), how about a console that boosts exotic damage by 50% for 30 seconds (cool down every 2 minutes)
+50% exotic damage for 30 seconds
+50 partical generators for 15 seconds
+50 graviton generators for 15 seconds
And that, to me, would be a great T6 (non-fleet) science destroyer for the KDF.
Hence why I said "any" deflector. I honestly don't think it would break the game if it were implemented that way.
Either way, though, I'd love to see that ship with or without it.
There really isn't anything left that the federation side hasn't gotten through cash grabs or via the romulan fed faction. So pretty much the bird of prey itself is the last and only thing unique although romulan side reman infiltrator trait makes bird of preys much inferior to romulan warbirds.
This is all hypothetical anyways, since the game will be dead before next summer. Further, Cryptic will never devote any attention to KDF (which have NO end-game sci ships, by the way) so it's all just an exercise in wishful thinking. Nothing else.
In Starfleet, a Science ship is super SHIELDS/super "tech" as their shtick with a slant away from weapons towards Science Consoles.
In KDF Raiders, the Science would be super CLOAKS as their shtick with a slant towards a "balanced" Universal system that can be configured in a huge variety of ways.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
I see nothing there remotely sciencey, all you did was make a cruiser with a secondary deflector.
You have a broken definition of science if you can't see the benefits.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
As such, I would anticipate that the KDF, king of battlecruisers, would be the race to design Vesta-type science ships more than anyone else. Feds come in second because of that whole "we do science more than battlecruisers, so a "sciency-battlecruiser" is right up our combat need alley...
Roms, on the other hand, would "prefer" the proposed Dyson-esque transformer-ship at T6, the whole "look, I'm a week science ship till I suddenly go all destroyer on you, and if I build enough moving parts on the ship I can even make the hulls look radically different and can science-alpha you, battlecloak, transform, come in on a different vector, and my destroyer-alpha can confuse the uninitiated to think that 2 ships are attacking, not just one...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
This isn't about "well, the ROMs wouldn't get..."
Folks, the KDF hasn't had a SCI ship like this. KDF SCI is overlooked, imho. Develop it, put it on the C-Store and see how it sells... More KDF SCI ships might be warranted if the sales are solid.
And, yes, the KDF is comprised of warrior races, thus warranting TAC and ENG focused ships. Maybe the post-DR content has forced the KDF to reconsider/refocus on sciences...
Bam, done.
Make the trait somehow include energy and exotic damage.
Com/LTCom Sci (com in sci mode)
Com/LTCom Tac (com in tac mode)
LTCom Eng
Lt Universal
Of all three the KDF is the one I see most likely to develop the concept further its no secret afterall that the KDF lack science ships and that most of the races are not terribly interested in ships of that style. so why not do what the kdf has done for a long time. take a ship design and refine it rather than pump out a completely new design. in this case they probably would give it a new hull to make it look more klingon, but i could see many of the internals and basic concepts remaining mostly the same.
As I said before of all three I think the kdf would see the most value in a ship that can fill a void in their ranks in terms of science capability, yet when push comes to shove can shut down some of those systems and divert that power to combat systems instead.and in tried and true klingon fashion the ground work on it is already done for them (read D7 for rommie cloaking device trade TOS era) they just need to take the design prototype so to speak and give it more of a kdf buff and polish.
That at least is my in universe reasoning, reasons for the devs, well look at the T6 raptor, they finally give us a decent C-store kdf ship and low and behold it actually sells. Hard concept to understand Im sure but there it is.
The breen and kazon raiders are far better than a t4 bop. T5u bop wins, of course.
I can stand playing fed... they have nothing but ships, when you get down to it. Ships, they have 4x as many as anyone else, but across the whole game..
-their BOs have the worst excuses for space ability. Even pirate beats them.
- they can't get a leech without heroic efforts
- they cant get contraband or dil easily, royal pain to 8k cap daily without defense and contra
- the 'free' ship at 50 (lifetime, etc) offers very poor options compared to the others
to name a few of the aggravations fed captains deal with. There are a bunch of minor ones as well.
As far as the DSD goes, it performs poorly as a gunship. It performs great as a sci ship. The concept is broken... now if the 4th frontal weapon could be slotted by the player, it would be a winner. A t6 upgrade that made sense might be a really good concept ship and a great way to play off the "research" done to create the DSD. We can dream. Whatever... they missed my deadline, on that. I gave them to 1-1-15 to release the rest of the kdf t6 ships and they didnt, so I won't be buying anything else for a very, very long time. Too little too late now... I bought EC ships off the exchange, farmed a breen carrier, and I no longer need, or want, their hand-me-downs.
Agree. But I'd be content with a true 4/3 weapons config. I didnt like getting pushed into a cannon or hybrid cannon/beam build.
There is no valid reasons the Klingons would/should not have a full blown science ship. Sure they're a warrior race, but they do possess scientists to study and exploit their environment.
And Orion ships don't count. The Feds don't sole-source their science ships from the Vulcans.
So in all pretty much after experiencing DR you can safely say KDF development is done for they just put that raptor out there as a parting gift to those who play the KDF.