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STF Normal -> Advanced progression
timelord79
Member Posts: 1,852 Arc User
Ok, this has been suggested before, without anything coming of it.
But with the new PvE situation after DR it is worth thinking about again.
Right now the Normal queues are all but deserted with a few exceptions, mostly because the rewards are lackluster.
Everyone is going as straight into Advanced as possible, which results in lots of teams without the necessary experience to complete the STFs.
And that gives new players the impression that they are impossibly hard to beat, which is simply not true.
Now, how do we get the average players back into Normal queues without making Advanced redundant at the same time?
Players needto be able to get the same rewards somehow to motivate them, right? They don't want to be second class players.
My suggestion is this:
Restrict initial access to Normal queues for new characters.
Advanced can then unlocked via 2 paths.
Complete an STF accolade requiring three completions of the STF with successful optionals.
Completing the accolade will then unlock advanced and at the same time reward the player with the same additional items he would have gotten for playing 3 Advanced STF.
For example, I play Infected Space 3 times all successful with optionals, the accolade completes and I am rewarded 3 BNPs plus some rare R&D materials.
if i repeat that for all the other Borg STFs, of which we have 8 in total, then you should end up with 24 BNPs in total plus 24 rare materials for R&D.
(Edit: Borg Disconnected doesn't count for Omega rep, it's a Delta Rep mission, but would work the same way of course with Ancient Power Cells) )
You might not have as much marks or Dilithium, but i believe this is more than fair.
3 runs of an STF is not that many and people who can do them in their sleep already will have them done in no time.
Actualy newbies will have to work for them a bit more and gain a minimum of experience before they can go into advanced. And by the time they do, they will have had the opportunity to even get some rep gear, too, which is one of the main complaints.
Path number 2 is for veterans:
Simply have all STF difficulties unlock by completing the Rep Sponsor project as it means you did likely before on another toon.
Thoughts? ideas for improvement?
What do the average players think about this, Would you consider this a fair solution?
But with the new PvE situation after DR it is worth thinking about again.
Right now the Normal queues are all but deserted with a few exceptions, mostly because the rewards are lackluster.
Everyone is going as straight into Advanced as possible, which results in lots of teams without the necessary experience to complete the STFs.
And that gives new players the impression that they are impossibly hard to beat, which is simply not true.
Now, how do we get the average players back into Normal queues without making Advanced redundant at the same time?
Players needto be able to get the same rewards somehow to motivate them, right? They don't want to be second class players.
My suggestion is this:
Restrict initial access to Normal queues for new characters.
Advanced can then unlocked via 2 paths.
Complete an STF accolade requiring three completions of the STF with successful optionals.
Completing the accolade will then unlock advanced and at the same time reward the player with the same additional items he would have gotten for playing 3 Advanced STF.
For example, I play Infected Space 3 times all successful with optionals, the accolade completes and I am rewarded 3 BNPs plus some rare R&D materials.
if i repeat that for all the other Borg STFs, of which we have 8 in total, then you should end up with 24 BNPs in total plus 24 rare materials for R&D.
(Edit: Borg Disconnected doesn't count for Omega rep, it's a Delta Rep mission, but would work the same way of course with Ancient Power Cells) )
You might not have as much marks or Dilithium, but i believe this is more than fair.
3 runs of an STF is not that many and people who can do them in their sleep already will have them done in no time.
Actualy newbies will have to work for them a bit more and gain a minimum of experience before they can go into advanced. And by the time they do, they will have had the opportunity to even get some rep gear, too, which is one of the main complaints.
Path number 2 is for veterans:
Simply have all STF difficulties unlock by completing the Rep Sponsor project as it means you did likely before on another toon.
Thoughts? ideas for improvement?
What do the average players think about this, Would you consider this a fair solution?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Anyway, I like your suggestion. But it seams we need even more reward from STFs. Currently there are better ways to get dil/marks per time.
(I actually do think that it's a good idea, but do you see Cryptic even bothering if they can't make a profit? :rolleyes: )
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
We all know this leads to elitist rage in STF missions. So I say this is a great idea, and will both lower the blood pressure of the vets and help learning players to conquer the game.
I also think that, while they are nice , the retroactive awards are unnecessary. The fact that you get to advance seems reward enough. My two cents.
STFs are not difficult period. They for the most part can be completed by smashing your space bar with your forehead provided your ship can provide enough DPS.
This is the problem and with the time gates and dil cost associated with everything, and "difficulty increase" (Actually they just increased the Time to Kill) they recreated the gap that they fixed with Rep revamp.
In order to reduce the gap I think they should:
1. Incorporate Omega, Nukara, and Romulan Rep Grinds in leveling from the beginning. Make the rep Gear MK Infinity and then convert to MK XII upon level 50 for upgrades. For Omega in order to convert, they must have the requisite number of BNPs. This allows for new players/chars to have access to some rep traits and gear when they can start doing STFs. They won't have them all but they'll have enough to fill the passives.
2. Rework Queues again. This would provide BNP/APC at all levels.
Normal = 240 Dil
Normal + Optional = 360 Dil + 1 BNP/APC + R&D Pack (Normal)
Advanced = 1 BNP + 720 Dil+ R&D Pack (Advanced)
Advanced + Optional 2 BNPs + 960 Dil (Advanced R&D with higher probability of VR Mat)
Elite (Optional Required) = 3 BNPs + 1440 Dil + Guaranteed VR Mat R&D Pack
3. Add APCs/BNPs to the Kobali and Defera Ground Zones. Kobali would be the same as Voth and Undine and Defera would be the completion of the Daily Hard missions. 1 per mission plus and additional 2-3 for completing all of them.
Be careful what you wish for...
That'S what they are. For the most part after the latest nerf they are probably even esier than old Elite.
but you have to take into account that the old Elite was balanced toward the old level cap with mk XIi gear.
new advanced is balanced toward the new level cap with mk XIV gear.
not everyone has that yet, so most players are still underleveled and7or undergeared.
I don't play many other games but I'd be very surprised to find there was a move in MMO gaming towards failqueues. I would assume it was rather the opposite.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm sorry but that is the problem advance should not be mk XIV elite should be mkXIV. If normal is lvl50 advance should be lvl55 and elite lvl60. Advance is not elite the elite is suppose to be elite.
If you think advance is like old elite lol I want what your drinking lol. I have a toon at level 60+ with mostly mkXIII gear has a hard time in advance in a pug but before in old elite had no problems doing it so not balanced to me.
I have players in my own Fleet who are using the same ship I am using, who have the same Rep and Fleet gear that I have, etc, and who are doing 5,000 DPS while I am doing 15,000. The difference is not our gear. The difference is in knowing when to use the various Boff skills, Ship abilities, Captain skills, etc. I have people in my own Fleet who do not even slot Doffs because they have no idea that even white Doffs can add some combat benefits.
The next thing to consider is the PUG. Pre-DR a PUG Might consist of 2 people doing 25,000+ DPS who are carrying 2-3 other people in the STF who are doing 4,000 DPS. The lazy people in the PUG got used to being carried and succeeding while putting very little effort into it - and we would see MANY threads on the forum about AFKers and people who should not be in Elites due to lack of skill, etc.
Post-DR everyone in a PUG needs to pull some weight. If you are a 4,000 DPS player you cannot be carried by the others any more. Everyone needs to bring some skill to the mission. What this means is that players in Advanced queues now need to spend some time thinking about their build. All the Mk XIV gear in the game will not help if the person does not know how to use their ship properly.
And the sad part is many of these people probably have adequate gear to succeed at Advanced. They have simply never had to learn how to use their ship because they have been carried for nearly 3 years by everyone else in the ESTFs.
I was doing 10k dps (tet) before DR so no problem holding my own not sure what it is now but should be close to that if not more haven't checked it. I can do it with team (fleet) no problems. But as the pug goes what a joke lol 9 out of 10 times will fail and I know what I'm doing. I have done plenty of stfs and never failed as much as I do now in pugs.:)
P.S. That was with my eng.
And rep locking players from higher difficulties? I'd wadge there are people here who have no interest in completing a particular rep track on their main, (or any toon), but might enjoy playing the queued mission for it's own sake, (or dilithium if they ever make it worth it).
I'm sorry if I'm not really being constructive here, but with the queues as dead as they are now, I can't see adding restrictions being in anyway beneficial.
If I were to suggest anything, it might be trying to reward players for learning the content. Perhaps keeping normal the way it is now, but rewarding a BNP on successful completion of the optional. If people are striving for, (and can achieve), that in normal, they may be better prepared for the mandatory optional in advanced.
Not sure that would change anything, but I think it would be received better.
^This... no way in hell Cryptic would ever do something that made sense
I also think the mandatory optionals either need to go back to optionals or the parameters need to be changed so failure is not a common result on a capable team.
something that should have been done a long time a go.
I like this solution the most it is straight forward and uncomplicated so casuals can figure it out with minmal reading, but the veterans get their NO NEWBS! space as well. The unlock and award of BNp's would almost guarantee at least a near Full Assimilated gear ship to start, and a 2 out of other set ship as minimum...... plus players that had to be reasonably serious/ skilled to pass the gate. There will be a lot that will just get the gate and have the BNP's and choose to avoid the Elitist ButtHats as well......everyone is happy.
Also post #7 Has his solution:
<snip>/paste
In order to reduce the gap I think they should:
1. Incorporate Omega, Nukara, and Romulan Rep Grinds in leveling from the beginning. Make the rep Gear MK Infinity and then convert to MK XII upon level 50 for upgrades. For Omega in order to convert, they must have the requisite number of BNPs. This allows for new players/chars to have access to some rep traits and gear when they can start doing STFs. They won't have them all but they'll have enough to fill the passives.
2. Rework Queues again. This would provide BNP/APC at all levels.
Normal = 240 Dil
Normal + Optional = 360 Dil + 1 BNP/APC + R&D Pack (Normal)
Advanced = 1 BNP + 720 Dil+ R&D Pack (Advanced)
Advanced + Optional 2 BNPs + 960 Dil (Advanced R&D with higher probability of VR Mat)
Elite (Optional Required) = 3 BNPs + 1440 Dil + Guaranteed VR Mat R&D Pack
3. Add APCs/BNPs to the Kobali and Defera Ground Zones. Kobali would be the same as Voth and Undine and Defera would be the completion of the Daily Hard missions. 1 per mission plus and additional 2-3 for completing all of them.
<end cut and paste>
This would also probably be a satisfactory solution, if harder and more time consuming to implement. The Nukara and Romulus Grinds are about right for the average Joe wanting to TRIBBLE around in a familiar Sci-Fi setup after a day at work when their favorite sport is off air. If it requires a lot of precision, the couple of after work beers preclude that so the average Fleet actions are just that. There are some that would like the shineys, so they might put off that beer for a while, but they do not have any patience for acne popping basement teenie who Newbs all over them about a game........both of these would give a solution that might meet that 3 way NEED while making everyone happy......
NEED for profit from Arc. NEED for casual fun play for Joe. NEED for the teen geek to have his uber.
I like this idea. Maybe even a 50% chance at a BNP or ancient cell would be good enough to get people to stay in normal and learn.
What if the game gave a DPS score at the end of the run? Gear alone doesn't mean the person has power levels set right or has any idea about what boff powers to use.
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Gear Score: Over 9000 Power Setting: 25 weapon power DPS this run: 1620
We suggest that you adjust power settings and look at this set of guides to see how to use bridge officer powers
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