"Afterlife" (story)

worffan101

So this is a Kobali Prime story, novelization/adaptation of the first few missions. Written from Omek'ti'kallan's POV because he's fun to write.

Still working on my big piece, but it's kind of stalled.

Cast list:
First Omek'ti'kallan: Chiwetel Ejiofor.
Rahaen'Enriov D'trel: Linda Hamilton, circa Terminator 2.
Daysnur: Alan Tudyk.
t'ongb

icerose20

IIRC, the Kobali are not killing the Vaudwaar in the Stasis Chamber, they are using the bodies of those that have died already from the failed statis pods. That line is thier, and its real easy to cross it, but it is there.

Good read, except for the Janeway bashing. That horse is a fossil now.

marcusdkane

As above, a good read except for the Janeway bashing :cool: Some of the speech was a little 'contemporary' at times, but a good read :cool:

worffan101

icerose20 wrote: »

IIRC, the Kobali are not killing the Vaudwaar in the Stasis Chamber, they are using the bodies of those that have died already from the failed statis pods. That line is thier, and its real easy to cross it, but it is there.

Good read, except for the Janeway bashing. That horse is a fossil now.

Well, Harry is competent and Janeway isn't. Plus I felt that there would likely be a little resentment there from not getting an apparently deserved promotion for SEVEN FREAKING YEARS.

And there IS a line in the Kobali arc that heavily implies that the Kobali are sabotaging the stasis pods in order to quickly get more bodies to reanimate. On top of that they're annoying hypocrites and I wanted to show that.

marcusdkane wrote: »

As above, a good read except for the Janeway bashing :cool: Some of the speech was a little 'contemporary' at times, but a good read :cool:

Oh, the turak sign language conversations? Yeah, that's SUPPOSED to be a half-slang colloquial language. Basically, the sign language is used ubiquitously, every pack and kin-pack has their own idiosyncracies, and as such slang is not so much an inevitable result of the language as part and parcel of the language.

On the flip side, the spoken/written language is rarely used, and so is stilted, archaic, and heavily formal.

I figured that given the species background I hashed out, this would be the logical conclusion of their linguistic oddities.

marcusdkane

worffan101 wrote: »

Well, Harry is competent and Janeway isn't. Plus I felt that there would likely be a little resentment there from not getting an apparently deserved promotion for SEVEN FREAKING YEARS.

I think that in one of the episodes, Harry said that he understood that their situation meant that regular promotional opportunities weren't compatible with their situation (but of course, that is then undercut by Tom's demotion and re-promotion...) The problem, is any time you mention Janeway, it's as a bash, and that shows as your (understandable) dislike of Janeway, not that of the character(s) Also, what Harry did there is actionable by court martial as disrespect to a superior officer, which just isn't consistent to how Spit and Polish Harry was about stuff. That's not meant as a bash on the writing, but something which I think would make your writing stronger if you could move beyond it :cool:

worffan101 wrote: »

Oh, the turak sign language conversations? Yeah, that's SUPPOSED to be a half-slang colloquial language. Basically, the sign language is used ubiquitously, every pack and kin-pack has their own idiosyncracies, and as such slang is not so much an inevitable result of the language as part and parcel of the language.

On the flip side, the spoken/written language is rarely used, and so is stilted, archaic, and heavily formal.

I figured that given the species background I hashed out, this would be the logical conclusion of their linguistic oddities.

Sorry to be less than accepting of that explanation, but that is essentially the same argument which was presented in defence of any of Three's shenanigans: Contract says... Biology allows... Psychology means... That's all fine, but when those rules only exist in your head, no one else knows them, so when you make an explanation like this, it comes across as a made up on the spot justification to avoid the critique, rather than an openly acknowledged character convention... As mentioned, it's a good read, and a nicely written, just don't take the easy shortcut of 'can justify this with ... when called on it', your writing's stronger than that :cool:

worffan101

marcusdkane wrote: »

I think that in one of the episodes, Harry said that he understood that their situation meant that regular promotional opportunities weren't comparible with their situation (but of course, that is then undercut by Tom's demotion and re-promotion...) The problem, is any time you mention Janeway, it's as a bash, and that shows as your (understandable) dislike of Janeway, not that of the character(s) Also, what Harry did there is actionable by court martial as disrespect to a superior officer, which just isn't consistent to how Spit and Polish Harry was about stuff. That's not meant as a bash on the writing, but something which I think would make your writing stronger if you could move beyond it :cool:

You do have a very good point, but I also wanted to highlight how Starfleet Command's internal politics are sabotaging it from within.

That's part of why I brought up Three. :cool:

marcusdkane wrote: »

Sorry to be less than accepting of that explanation, but that is essentially the same argument which was presented in defence of any of Three's shenanigans: Contract says... Biology allows... Psychology means... That's all fine, but when those rules only exist in your head, no one else knows them, so when you make an explanation like this, it comes across as a made up on the spot justification to avoid the critique, rather than an openly acknowledged character convention... As mentioned, it's a good read, and a nicely written, just don't take the easy shortcut of 'can justify this with ... when called on it', your writing's stronger than that :cool:

I did try to explain this in the text; Omek'ti'kallan notes that:

Omektikallan wrote:

the turak spoken language is stilted and formal even to them

I'm sorry it didn't come across properly; I do have a long and storied history of not quite internalizing that other people do not have access to my thought processes.

I didn't include an in-depth discussion of turak sign language because Omek'ti'kallan isn't a linguistics geek and it'd be OOC of him to go on about it. I can add a short author's note at the end, though, that might help...

icerose20

As someone who served in the US Navy, a ship's crew become family. A large somewhat dysfunctional one, but still a family. Remember, Janeway did get them home, so they owe thier lives, and thier recent past to her. They may have disagreements with her action, but they would be said to those that they trust completely. Like at the Voyager reunion, or with thier compatriots from that time on the ship. Not to anyone else, especially to D'Trel, who is the one in your story started the genocide case.

marcusdkane

worffan101 wrote: »

You do have a very good point, but I also wanted to highlight how Starfleet Command's internal politics are sabotaging it from within.

Oh for sure, Starfleet isn't perfect, but Janeway bashing (in that sense) isn't necessarily the way to show it (especially when it makes a senior officer behave in an inconsistent way to Someone of The Rank... for example, I don't recall Picard or Sisko criticising Admiral Nechayev to others) Now if Harry were to be making an official complaint about his delayed promotion, reporting Janeway's actions, that would be a different matter... Infact, it wouldn't surprise me if someone reported her to internal affairs when Voyager got back to Earth, but I doubt it would be Harry, as he had that 'first commanding officer worship' thing going on. Wouldn't surprise me if it was actually Tuvok... He'd criticised her infront of the brass before for compliance issues

worffan101 wrote: »

I'm sorry it didn't come across properly; I do have a long and storied history of not quite internalizing that other people do not have access to my thought processes.

Maybe an entry like the First Contact report I wrote for the Federation and Pentaxia might be helpful in that regard, or even, as we've said before, a full copy of Three's Contract... That way, people would know what's what ^_^

worffan101 wrote: »

I didn't include an in-depth discussion of turak sign language because Omek'ti'kallan isn't a linguistics geek and it'd be OOC of him to go on about it. I can add a short author's note at the end, though, that might help...

As above, maybe an entry focussing on it, or even an author's note, but I would say to beware of providing 'excuses' for 25th Century characters to use 21st century colloqialism (aka speaking as you do ) as before, it was a good read, bar those things :cool:

worffan101

marcusdkane wrote: »

Oh for sure, Starfleet isn't perfect, but Janeway bashing (in that sense) isn't necessarily the way to show it (especially when it makes a senior officer behave in an inconsistent way to Someone of The Rank... for example, I don't recall Picard or Sisko criticising Admiral Nechayev to others) Now if Harry were to be making an official complaint about his delayed promotion, reporting Janeway's actions, that would be a different matter... Infact, it wouldn't surprise me if someone reported her to internal affairs when Voyager got back to Earth, but I doubt it would be Harry, as he had that 'first commanding officer worship' thing going on. Wouldn't surprise me if it was actually Tuvok... He'd criticised her infront of the brass before for compliance issues

But Nechayev was competent. Not a great person, but she generally had a point.

Tuvok, yeah. He would definitely pull a JJSpock and report Janeway.

marcusdkane wrote: »

Maybe an entry like the First Contact report I wrote for the Federation and Pentaxia might be helpful in that regard, or even, as we've said before, a full copy of Three's Contract... That way, people would know what's what ^_^

Three's Contract is not safe for the forums (there are multiple explicit references to what sexual acts a unit will or will not perform on command, and an entire page that lists recommended tortures in explicit detail), but yeah, I should definitely do a first-contact report on the turakil. Should be cool.

marcusdkane wrote: »

As above, maybe an entry focussing on it, or even an author's note, but I would say to beware of providing 'excuses' for 25th Century characters to use 21st century colloqialism (aka speaking as you do ) as before, it was a good read, bar those things :cool:

Yeah, the 21st-century colloquialisms are meant as approximate translations of turak expressions that literally have no parallel in their spoken language.

Added an author's note, hope you like it.

jonsills

marcusdkane wrote: »

...for example, I don't recall Picard or Sisko criticising Admiral Nechayev to others...

In fact, the one time Nechayev really pissed Sisko off, the rant he shared with Kira was directed at people on Earth in general, and Starfleet Command in particular, not at his superior officer as such. (The famous "it's easy to be a saint in Paradise" speech.)

Yeah, that was a little out of character for Harry. Although in his defense, Joel Watson (creator of the webcomic "Hijinks Ensue") has been rewatching Seasons 3 and 4 of VOY, and provided this direct quote: "SHE. IS. A. MONSTER."

worffan101

jonsills wrote: »

In fact, the one time Nechayev really pissed Sisko off, the rant he shared with Kira was directed at people on Earth in general, and Starfleet Command in particular, not at his superior officer as such. (The famous "it's easy to be a saint in Paradise" speech.)

Yeah, that was a little out of character for Harry. Although in his defense, Joel Watson (creator of the webcomic "Hijinks Ensue") has been rewatching Seasons 3 and 4 of VOY, and provided this direct quote: "SHE. IS. A. MONSTER."

My headcanon for STO Harry is that he's thought a lot over the years about his Delta Quadrant trip, an he's grown beyond the wide-eyed Ensign Newbie character. I think that he's realized that Janeway was a monster, and that his comment at the end of the show about what a great trip it was really was hugely disrespectful to the people who died in the very first episode when the Caretaker nabbed them.

Basically, he's not comfortable with filing charges or anything because he'd be screwed out of a job if he did (Janeway's a full Admiral and Tuvok's only a rear admiral, after all), but when he meets a Republic officer (and my headcanon for the RR is that they have openly condemned Janeway--I've even referred to this a few times in stories) he feels comfortable cutting loose a little.

marcusdkane

worffan101 wrote: »

But Nechayev was competent. Not a great person, but she generally had a point.

That's not the issue... Nechayev (and indeed Janeway) are RedHerrings in this instance... Harry's little observations, fall under Article 89: Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer. Such a comment, if reported, would earn him a year in the stockade and a Bad Conduct discharge...

This is what I was meaning by inconsistency of 'Someone of the Rank'

worffan101 wrote: »

Tuvok, yeah. He would definitely pull a JJSpock and report Janeway.

After her behaviour aboard the Caretaker's array (ignoring his ability to return them to Federation space) damn right he'd report her... I'd go so far as to say it was probably one of the first things he did when they got back...

worffan101 wrote: »

Three's Contract is not safe for the forums (there are multiple explicit references to what sexual acts a unit will or will not perform on command, and an entire page that lists recommended tortures in explicit detail), but yeah, I should definitely do a first-contact report on the turakil. Should be cool.

How about with [REDACTIONS] over unsafe sections? I think it would be a good read, and same for a first contact report :cool:

And yes, much better :cool:

marcusdkane

jonsills wrote: »

In fact, the one time Nechayev really pissed Sisko off, the rant he shared with Kira was directed at people on Earth in general, and Starfleet Command in particular, not at his superior officer as such. (The famous "it's easy to be a saint in Paradise" speech.)

Exactly. Kirk skirted the line a few times, but mostly when referring to Command collectively, not specific admirals. It's just about the kind of professional mindset that a commanding officer would have to not behave a certain way.

jonsills wrote: »

Yeah, that was a little out of character for Harry. Although in his defense, Joel Watson (creator of the webcomic "Hijinks Ensue") has been rewatching Seasons 3 and 4 of VOY, and provided this direct quote: "SHE. IS. A. MONSTER."

Oh for sure, she is indeed, I'm no Janeway fan, I just think that when writing a canon character, there is a Big Responsibility to remain true to their canon portrayals, and very little (if any) wiggle-room for an author's own interpretation of the character and their behaviour :cool:

worffan101

marcusdkane wrote: »

That's not the issue... Nechayev (and indeed Janeway) are RedHerrings in this instance... Harry's little observations, fall under Article 89: Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer. Such a comment, if reported, would earn him a year in the stockade and a Bad Conduct discharge...

This is what I was meaning by inconsistency of 'Someone of the Rank'

Well, as I said above, my headcanon is that the Republic is not overly fond of Janeway. Also, D'trel has a...reputation. Given that, I figured Harry would be OK with discussing Janeway's issues where nobody from the UFP can hear him.

It is a little OOC, though. Not sure how to fix it, as I want to keep in the idea that Starfleet Command is half incompetent.

marcusdkane wrote: »

After her behaviour aboard the Caretaker's array (ignoring his ability to return them to Federation space) damn right he'd report her... I'd go so far as to say it was probably one of the first things he did when they got back...

Yeah, Tuvok is a competent guy. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he did do that even before they even returned to spacedock. Maybe even during the Hirogen comms array incident.

marcusdkane wrote: »

How about with [REDACTIONS] over unsafe sections? I think it would be a good read, and same for a first contact report :cool:

And yes, much better :cool:

Um...that's like a third of the document. On top of that, I don't feel comfortable sharing it as it's...well, it's disturbing even to me. Intentionally so, but I still don't feel comfortable doing it, especially since I don't plan on doing much of anything with the character for the foreseeable future.

Thanks, maybe I should put ANs on everything I do from now on...that ought to help.